American Politics Thread VI: Can't We All Just Get Along?

[San Lumen]

What records are those?

The records of rulings they’ve made? Barrett isn’t as conservative as many think she is and Kav is much more libertarian than not. He’s definitely not going to overturn it and Barrett won’t overturn it either but she’ll issue an opinion that will allow the restrictions to continue

What restrictions is she going to allow? Isn't the current case about attempts to ban abortion entirely?

[Thermodolia]

The records of rulings they’ve made? Barrett isn’t as conservative as many think she is and Kav is much more libertarian than not. He’s definitely not going to overturn it and Barrett won’t overturn it either but she’ll issue an opinion that will allow the restrictions to continue

What restrictions is she going to allow? Isn't the current case about attempts to ban abortion entirely?

The restrictions that are currently on the books? Yes the current case is about overturning Roe but the court can issue as broad or narrow rulings they want

[The Jamesian Republic]

What records are those?

The records of rulings they’ve made? Barrett isn’t as conservative as many think she is and Kav is much more libertarian than not. He’s definitely not going to overturn it and Barrett won’t overturn it either but she’ll issue an opinion that will allow the restrictions to continue

So in reality they aren’t as bad as many think they are?

[Ngelmish]

What restrictions is she going to allow? Isn't the current case about attempts to ban abortion entirely?

The restrictions that are currently on the books? Yes the current case is about overturning Roe but the court can issue as broad or narrow rulings they want

They may not say they're overturning Roe, but that doesn't mean that they won't functionally do it. Alito claims that section 2 of the VRA isn't actually a dead letter in the same ruling that gutted it, after all. I'm prepared to take as narrow a ruling as the conservatives will give us, but it's far from certain that they will give us one.
And Roberts' tactical opinion only matters if he votes with the majority and assigns the opinion to himself or Kavanaugh. Which may or may not matter depending on what the other five decide to do.

Roe's survival or demise isn't written in stone yet either way, but I wouldn't be too certain that it's going to meaningfully be in place until the ruling comes down.

[Myrensis]

How do you know they arent?

Because their legal records have shown that they won’t. Plus it would be such a major electoral victory for the democrats that they really don’t want to overturn it

It can't give Democrats an electoral victory if Republicans control what votes are counted and who is allowed to vote. The Court all ready upheld Arizona's new "election integrity" laws, there's no reason to think they don't intend to do it with Republican voter suppression efforts everywhere else.

And recall, this entire thing is driven by the fact that they learned last year that their previous efforts, after the conservative majority on SCOTUS gutted the VRA, weren't sufficient, which is why they're going beyond just making it harder to vote and now purging local control of elections in favor of Republican appointees and easing barriers to overturning elections.

This is the Republican endgame, they've successfully packed the courts, all that remains is to ensure that those pesky "voters" can't screw up their plans anymore.

[The Black Forrest]

What records are those?

The records of rulings they’ve made? Barrett isn’t as conservative as many think she is and Kav is much more libertarian than not. He’s definitely not going to overturn it and Barrett won’t overturn it either but she’ll issue an opinion that will allow the restrictions to continue

Overturning it is a dream for many. Even those people understand they can't see it happen. They have opted to slowly strangle it to death and make it as hard as possible to obtain.

Barrett and Kav will probably support that effort.

[San Lumen]

Because their legal records have shown that they won’t. Plus it would be such a major electoral victory for the democrats that they really don’t want to overturn it

It can't give Democrats an electoral victory if Republicans control what votes are counted and who is allowed to vote. The Court all ready upheld Arizona's new "election integrity" laws, there's no reason to think they don't intend to do it with Republican voter suppression efforts everywhere else.

And recall, this entire thing is driven by the fact that they learned last year that their previous efforts, after the conservative majority on SCOTUS gutted the VRA, weren't sufficient, which is why they're going beyond just making it harder to vote and now purging local control of elections in favor of Republican appointees and easing barriers to overturning elections.

This is the Republican endgame, they've successfully packed the courts, all that remains is to ensure that those pesky "voters" can't screw up their plans anymore.

If they start overturning elections you will have mass protests the likes of which this country has never seen.

[The Black Forrest]

oh I missed this one.

It seems part of the republican crazy talk with the routers involves Italians changing votes for Biden.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/202 ... of-vpx.cnn

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-fact ... SKBN29K2N8

[Thermodolia]

Because their legal records have shown that they won’t. Plus it would be such a major electoral victory for the democrats that they really don’t want to overturn it

It can't give Democrats an electoral victory if Republicans control what votes are counted and who is allowed to vote. The Court all ready upheld Arizona's new "election integrity" laws, there's no reason to think they don't intend to do it with Republican voter suppression efforts everywhere else.

The landslide to democrats if Roe is overturned would be so massive that the voting restrictions wouldn’t matter.

And recall, this entire thing is driven by the fact that they learned last year that their previous efforts, after the conservative majority on SCOTUS gutted the VRA, weren't sufficient, which is why they're going beyond just making it harder to vote and now purging local control of elections in favor of Republican appointees and easing barriers to overturning elections.

This is the Republican endgame, they've successfully packed the courts, all that remains is to ensure that those pesky "voters" can't screw up their plans anymore.

It won’t matter if the wave is large enough to utterly crush them

[Thermodolia]

The records of rulings they’ve made? Barrett isn’t as conservative as many think she is and Kav is much more libertarian than not. He’s definitely not going to overturn it and Barrett won’t overturn it either but she’ll issue an opinion that will allow the restrictions to continue

Overturning it is a dream for many. Even those people understand they can't see it happen. They have opted to slowly strangle it to death and make it as hard as possible to obtain.

Barrett and Kav will probably support that effort.

Yup. They won’t support outright overturn but they will support death by restrictions

[Kowani]

It can't give Democrats an electoral victory if Republicans control what votes are counted and who is allowed to vote. The Court all ready upheld Arizona's new "election integrity" laws, there's no reason to think they don't intend to do it with Republican voter suppression efforts everywhere else.

The landslide to democrats if Roe is overturned would be so massive that the voting restrictions wouldn’t matter.

And recall, this entire thing is driven by the fact that they learned last year that their previous efforts, after the conservative majority on SCOTUS gutted the VRA, weren't sufficient, which is why they're going beyond just making it harder to vote and now purging local control of elections in favor of Republican appointees and easing barriers to overturning elections.

This is the Republican endgame, they've successfully packed the courts, all that remains is to ensure that those pesky "voters" can't screw up their plans anymore.

It won’t matter if the wave is large enough to utterly crush them

You cannot out-vote an election being overturned by Republican fiat

[Conservative Republic Of Huang]

The landslide to democrats if Roe is overturned would be so massive that the voting restrictions wouldn’t matter.


It won’t matter if the wave is large enough to utterly crush them

You cannot out-vote an election being overturned by Republican fiat

If they try and actually overturn elections en masse after results are in, then there would actually be an uprising.

[San Lumen]

You cannot out-vote an election being overturned by Republican fiat

If they try and actually overturn elections en masse after results are in, then there would actually be an uprising.

I would not put it past Republicans to do it.

[Fauzjhia]

If they try and actually overturn elections en masse after results are in, then there would actually be an uprising.

I would not put it past Republicans to do it.

and I suppose they would do it to save democracy... so what is democracy to republicans ?

[San Lumen]

I would not put it past Republicans to do it.

and I suppose they would do it to save democracy... so what is democracy to republicans ?

They don't believe in it. Its an annoyance to them.

[The Temple of the Computer]

I would not put it past Republicans to do it.

and I suppose they would do it to save democracy... so what is democracy to republicans ?

Save democracy from anyone we happen to dislike.

[Rusozak]

I would not put it past Republicans to do it.

and I suppose they would do it to save democracy... so what is democracy to republicans ?

Democracy to Republicans is when only people who agree with them are allowed to vote.

[Narland]

and I suppose they would do it to save democracy... so what is democracy to republicans ?

Democracy to Republicans is when only people who agree with them are allowed to vote.

I must disagree.

To the GOP in general (Republicans Upper Case R), democracy is a function of government, not the end in itself.

To Conservative Republicans (also upper case R)-- those who are conserving Classical Liberalism at least epistemologically, (about 1/5 to 1/2 of of the GOP depending) democracy is representative government as well as a part of the function of the Legislative and a certain extent the Executive.

To American republicans (lower case r)-- those who, regardless of party affiliation, advocate the abolition of despotism and uphold republicanism (Constitutional Limited Government that recognizes self-government, rule of law, extreme liberty, and unrelenting equality through truth, justice, and beneficence), democracy is constitutional representative government limited to the function of the Legislative and a certain extent the Executive, as a check and balance against the monarchic part of the Executive branch, and the Judicial Branch in particular; and chained down from mischief by a bill of rights.

Regardless, pure democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.

[Great Algerstonia]

Civil war. Extended periods of extreme unrest.

So you either think we might need an authoritarian regime soon…

An event that threatens the extinction of humanity or the fall of civilization. A country that's behind developed countries in terms of living standards that needs a temporary authoritarian hand back on track.

…or that we’ve already needed one for the past ~40 years?

Why bother with having a democracy at all, if you’re just going to drop it all at the first sign of trouble?

Again, not what I meant. I only support authoritarianism if the state is dire. Authoritarianism is only efficient in the short term, as absolute power corrupts everyone and the more a leader has absolute power, the more they forget about their will, values, and original purpose for them being in such a state of power. I highly doubt that civil war will come soon, there is no event that threatens the fall of civilization and climate change will be an existential threat in the next coming decades. By standards of living, I mean at the absolute bottom tier. Not good but not perfect levels.

[The Jamesian Republic]

You cannot out-vote an election being overturned by Republican fiat

If they try and actually overturn elections en masse after results are in, then there would actually be an uprising.

Were their any other times in American history that people worried if Republicans would overturn the election or do something like that?

[Conservative Republic Of Huang]

The Republican takes off his mask...

Wdym?

Anti-democratic sentiments.

[Great Algerstonia]

If they try and actually overturn elections en masse after results are in, then there would actually be an uprising.

Were their any other times in American history that people worried if Republicans would overturn the election or do something like that?

Not Republicans specifically, off the top of my head, but at the beginning of the Union, there was fear among the people that John Adams would refuse to leave power because it was simply unheard of for people to do that, given that most of the world was ruled by absolute monarchies at the time.

[Great Algerstonia]

Wdym?

Anti-democratic sentiments.

Democracy doesn't always work, idealism doesn't always work. There is no perfect system and this world will soon be forced to rely on pragmatic and authoritarian governments with the sole motivation of preserving the status quo and ensuring the well-being of their citizens... and things will get worse from there once climate change gets REALLY bad. Government will be required to get bigger soon.

[Conservative Republic Of Huang]

Anti-democratic sentiments.

Democracy doesn't always work, idealism doesn't always work. There is no perfect system and this world will soon be forced to rely on pragmatic and authoritarian governments with the sole motivation of preserving the status quo and ensuring the well-being of their citizens... and things will get worse from there once climate change gets REALLY bad. Government will be required to get bigger soon.

Let's get the state to fix the mess the state made...amazing. I don't like the anprims, but they're much much better than the ecofashes.

[Bahia Roja]

Democracy doesn't always work, idealism doesn't always work. There is no perfect system and this world will soon be forced to rely on pragmatic and authoritarian governments with the sole motivation of preserving the status quo and ensuring the well-being of their citizens... and things will get worse from there once climate change gets REALLY bad. Government will be required to get bigger soon.

Yikes.