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Pencil and the Lead

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

What Happened?

Lead get longer
3
19%
Pencil got shorter
6
38%
Lead got shorter
0
No votes
All 3
7
44%
 
Total votes : 16

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Cavirfi
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Pencil and the Lead

Postby Cavirfi » Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:06 pm

Out of the usual political threads we have on this subforum, let us discuss a topic of perception; which are you more focused on?

Consider the hypothetical: You have a pencil and the lead broke, so what do you do? You get a sharpener of course and once you sharpen the pencil, the lead sharpens obviously.

Now here is a simple question: How do you see the pencil; is the lead shorter or longer; did the pencil get shorter or did the lead get longer, or did all 3 happen?

As an optimist you would think the lead got longer; as a pessimist you would think both got shorter, as a realist; you would see all 3 scenarios happen at the same time.

So NSG: What happened to the pencil and the lead?
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Resilient Acceleration
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Postby Resilient Acceleration » Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:09 pm

Both get shorter. I mean, try to look at the remnants on the table/collector, there'll be lead powder there. If you take a millimeter screw and measure the pencil's total lead, it's empirically shorter, there isn't really any scenario that exists where new lead suddenly grow on top of the existing lead.
Last edited by Resilient Acceleration on Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Cavirfi
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Postby Cavirfi » Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:10 pm

Resilient Acceleration wrote:Both get shorter. I mean, try to look at the remnants on the table/collector, there'll be lead powder there.

I sometimes see the lead as longer however in a metaphorical sense; that basically means people sometimes take things at surface level.
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Farnhamia
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Postby Farnhamia » Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:15 pm

Resilient Acceleration wrote:Both get shorter. I mean, try to look at the remnants on the table/collector, there'll be lead powder there. If you take a millimeter screw and measure the pencil's total lead, it's empirically shorter, there isn't really any scenario that exists where new lead suddenly grow on top of the existing lead.

But what if you replace the "lead" with carbon nanotubes?

Actually, you're exactly right?
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Drew Durrnil
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Postby Drew Durrnil » Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:17 pm

Both get shorter, but the lead gets longer in proportion to the pencil.
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Resilient Acceleration
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Postby Resilient Acceleration » Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:19 pm

I guess the problem is in the definition. "Total lead", including the ones inside the pencil, or "amount of lead visibly exposed"? If it's the amount of lead exposed, then yea it gets longer.
Last edited by Resilient Acceleration on Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby Cavirfi » Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:20 pm

Resilient Acceleration wrote:I guess the problem is in the definition. "Total lead", including the ones inside the pencil, or "exposed lead"?

That's why I didn't define it; it's all up to perception.
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Heloin
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Postby Heloin » Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:50 pm

You describe sharpening a pencil as lengthening the pencil lead?
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Postby Cavirfi » Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:51 pm

Heloin wrote:You describe sharpening a pencil as lengthening the pencil lead?

Sometimes.
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:55 pm

I tend to notice that the pencil gets shorter. This is especially true when I’m using a 4B or 5B.

I don’t think about whether the lead got longer or shorter, I think in terms of its shape (it becomes more triangular so that it’s easier to manipulate on the paper).
Last edited by Infected Mushroom on Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Heloin
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Postby Heloin » Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:00 pm

Cavirfi wrote:
Heloin wrote:You describe sharpening a pencil as lengthening the pencil lead?

Sometimes.

You can't lengthen something by subtracting material. Stretching the existing material or adding additional material yes but not by subtracting, that's physically impossible.
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Cavirfi
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Postby Cavirfi » Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:02 pm

Heloin wrote:
Cavirfi wrote:Sometimes.

You can't lengthen something by subtracting material. Stretching the existing material or adding additional material yes but not by subtracting, that's physically impossible.

I mean if it is the total lead, you are not lengthening. But if it is the exposed lead on the other hand...
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New Swaraelia
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Postby New Swaraelia » Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:03 pm

Philosophical questions to a web site of cynics, should go well.

That being said, the pencil's getting shorter and the lead's getting longer.
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Postby The Blaatschapen » Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:11 pm

Pencil gets shorter. Lead gets shorter.
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Heloin
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Postby Heloin » Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:23 pm

Cavirfi wrote:
Heloin wrote:You can't lengthen something by subtracting material. Stretching the existing material or adding additional material yes but not by subtracting, that's physically impossible.

I mean if it is the total lead, you are not lengthening. But if it is the exposed lead on the other hand...

Then you're still shortening it.
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Cavirfi
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Postby Cavirfi » Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:25 pm

Heloin wrote:
Cavirfi wrote:I mean if it is the total lead, you are not lengthening. But if it is the exposed lead on the other hand...

Then you're still shortening it.

Understandable, however this is a philosophical question, everyone knows that pencil and lead get shorter when sharpening, but in the heat of moment; some can forget that.
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Page
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Postby Page » Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:49 pm

The pencil and the lead (which is almost always not lead but graphite, exposing children to lead is a sensitive issue) both got shorter in relation to themselves but the lead got longer in relation to you as a human agent, because you define the lead by its usefulness in helping you write.
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Postby Risottia » Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:53 pm

Farnhamia wrote:But what if you replace the "lead" with carbon nanotubes?

Then you get a small wooden dart with an extremely sharp tip.
By the way, why do people call it "lead"? It's graphite.
Last edited by Risottia on Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Page » Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:56 pm

Risottia wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:But what if you replace the "lead" with carbon nanotubes?

Then you get a small wooden dart with an extremely sharp tip.
By the way, why do people call it "lead"? It's graphite.


It's common parlance, at least in America. Bullets are also referred to as lead even though they're usually not.
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Yeerosland
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Postby Yeerosland » Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:46 am

Assuming the length of the "lead" means its longest axis.
And the length of the pencil too, and INCLUDING the lead if the pencil still has a point on it.

Then neither necessarily gets any shorter. A blunt pencil has a rounded point. The most salient molecules on that point, do not need to be ground off to make the pencil perfectly sharp.

Both the pencil and the lead MAY become shorter. If the sharpener isn't that sharp itself, it can snap the point off just when you're nearly finished. It's also possible that the boss of the sharpener keeps turning longer than necessary.

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Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:22 am

The pencil got shorter and the lead didn't as much.
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Postby Ethel mermania » Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:08 am

The Blaatschapen wrote:Pencil gets shorter. Lead gets shorter.

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Heloin
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Postby Heloin » Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:10 am

Cavirfi wrote:
Heloin wrote:Then you're still shortening it.

Understandable, however this is a philosophical question, everyone knows that pencil and lead get shorter when sharpening, but in the heat of moment; some can forget that.

No it isn’t. It only gets shorter.
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Postby The Dodo Republic » Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:15 am

Both get shorter

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Postby Hurdergaryp » Sat Jun 12, 2021 10:11 am

Now if you consider the pencil sharps to still be a, now external, part of the pencil, the pencil would actually become longer over time, assuming you allow the length of the collective pencil sharps to be added to that of the pencil.


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