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A Thought Experiment Regarding Punishment vs Rehabilitation
Posted:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:57 amby Infected Mushroom
Please consider the following very straightforward hypothetical:
Someone has murdered someone very close to you. They did so in cold blood, with pre-planning, and with malice.
They are arrested and put on trial.
A supernatural being comes to you and tells you that you must choose between two outcomes (whatever you choose, the court will be influenced to find in that direction by supernatural mechanisms and no appeal will be successful):
Option 1: The murderer gets punished with the harshest sentence in the land (you can decide whether that’s life or death sentence)
Option 2: The murderer gets sent down a path of rehabilitation and restorative justice. After 3 years, they are free to walk again. Please assume that you have pre-existing knowledge that if you pick Option 2, the murderer’s rehabilitated state will be genuine in that for the rest of their lives, they will literally never break the law again. Under this option, they feel genuine remorse while being able to contribute productively to both the economy and society. After a while, they are able to lead a normal life.
Which option will you choose? Please assume that both options are somehow legally defensible outcomes in the hypothetical “land” and that your foreknowledge of the future for Option 2 is genuine.
Please justify.
Posted:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:59 amby Heloin
Can I punch the ghost in the face?
Posted:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:04 amby Ifreann
Heloin wrote:Can I punch the ghost in the face?
I would also like to beat up this supernatural entity.
Posted:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:17 amby The Free Joy State
Ifreann wrote:Heloin wrote:Can I punch the ghost in the face?
I would also like to beat up this supernatural entity.
'Beat up the ghostie' is sounding like a pretty good option to me, too, honestly.
EDIT: And, no, I don't think that three years is enough for someone who killed with malice aforethought (that is the minimum sentence for non-premeditated manslaughter). To plan a murder, consider it over a period of time and carry it out suggests a level of
psychopathy. Someone with such a personality cannot be rehabilitated (although they can
feign emotions). Although rehabilitation is a fine principle, some people can never be rehabilitated.
Where that is the case, life-long incarceration for the protection of society is an important possibility.
Anyone who kills with premeditation should automatically be considered for a full-life tariff.
Posted:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:17 amby Ifreann
The Free Joy State wrote:Ifreann wrote:I would also like to beat up this supernatural entity.
'Beat up the ghostie' is sounding like a pretty good option to me, too, honestly.
Bustin' makes me feel good.
Posted:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:19 amby A m e n r i a
"If you kill a killer, the number of killers stay the same."
Posted:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:33 amby Sundiata
Jesus wouldn't kill a criminal so I cannot.
Posted:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:34 amby The Free Joy State
Sundiata wrote:Jesus wouldn't kill a criminal so I cannot.
I am opposed to the death penalty. I am not opposed to a full life tariff (whole life sentence, no parole) for the criminals who can't be rehabilitated (I favour rehabilitation and non-custodial sentences for those where it is possible). The OP makes it clear that it does not have to be execution if you pick option one.
Infected Mushroom wrote:Option 1: The murderer gets punished with the harshest sentence in the land (you can decide whether that’s life or death sentence)
Posted:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:35 amby Unstoppable Empire of Doom
I like rehabilitation.... for some crimes. Murderers, rapists, pedophiles, corrupt police/judges, and white collar criminals should face the full punishments. They would be imprisoned for life.
Posted:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:37 amby Borderlands of Rojava
Option 3. I tell the supernatural entity thanks, but it's all good, then build my own version of the Saw Games, kidnap the killer and throw him in there and leave him to live or die, the choice is his.
John "Jigsaw" Kramer did say his games rehabilitated those who survived.
Posted:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:38 amby Ifreann
Unstoppable Empire of Doom wrote:I like rehabilitation.... for some crimes. Murderers, rapists, pedophiles, corrupt police/judges, and white collar criminals should face the full punishments. They would be imprisoned for life.
Absolutely reeling from white collar criminals being equated to child rapists.
Posted:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:46 amby Sundiata
The Free Joy State wrote:Sundiata wrote:Jesus wouldn't kill a criminal so I cannot.
I am opposed to the death penalty. I am not opposed to a full life tariff (whole life sentence, no parole) for the criminals who can't be rehabilitated (I favour rehabilitation and non-custodial sentences for those where it is possible). The OP makes it clear that it does not have to be execution if you pick option one.
Infected Mushroom wrote:Option 1: The murderer gets punished with the harshest sentence in the land (you can decide whether that’s life or death sentence)
We have to visit prisoners. People in prison are still people, made in the image and likeness of God.
Posted:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:01 amby Infected Mushroom
Borderlands of Rojava wrote:Option 3. I tell the supernatural entity thanks, but it's all good, then build my own version of the Saw Games, kidnap the killer and throw him in there and leave him to live or die, the choice is his.
John "Jigsaw" Kramer did say his games rehabilitated those who survived.
I’ve heard those movies are really scary. My friend said he went in for one of the Saws at the cinema and within 8 minutes of the start he left because it was too much!
Posted:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:04 amby Borderlands of Rojava
Infected Mushroom wrote:Borderlands of Rojava wrote:Option 3. I tell the supernatural entity thanks, but it's all good, then build my own version of the Saw Games, kidnap the killer and throw him in there and leave him to live or die, the choice is his.
John "Jigsaw" Kramer did say his games rehabilitated those who survived.
I’ve heard those movies are really scary. My friend said he went in for one of the Saws at the cinema and within 8 minutes of the start he left because it was too much!
Maybe I'm a little fucked up but I was struggling not to laugh through the film.
Posted:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:15 amby Galloism
A m e n r i a wrote:"If you kill a killer, the number of killers stay the same."
Posted:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:46 amby Senkaku
You're trying to think of a way to get people to not take a literal ghost up on an offer of supernaturally-enforced revenge for the murder of a loved one?
Posted:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:46 amby Ifreann
Senkaku wrote:You're trying to think of a way to get people to not take a literal ghost up on an offer of supernaturally-enforced revenge for the murder of a loved one?
Imma fuck this ghost up so bad he's gonna wish I didn't fuck him up so bad.
Posted:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:52 amby VoVoDoCo
I want to say I’d pick option 2, but in the heat of the moment it would be hard to say.
Posted:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:18 pmby Northern Socialist Council Republics
I would be rather concerned at the idea of our judicial system being controlled by the whims of a ghost. That’s probably a more serious issue than what happens to a single murderer.
If someone kills a person I love, what I would want is bloody revenge. This is why we have our (at least theoretically) impartial justice system and don’t simply let the relatives of victims decide what happens to violent criminals.
Posted:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:26 pmby Infected Mushroom
Senkaku wrote:You're trying to think of a way to get people to not take a literal ghost up on an offer of supernaturally-enforced revenge for the murder of a loved one?
I think both answers are defensible.
Posted:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:13 pmby The Two Jerseys
Neither.
Because if I'm choosing the punishment, there will be war crimes committed.
Posted:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:20 pmby New haven america
Can I please stop being visited by supernatural entities in the middle of the night?
Posted:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:21 pmby Borderlands of Rojava
Swear to God I'm about to call a priest and make these demons go away.
Posted:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:49 pmby Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum
It's actually rehabilitation, but I wouldn't do the right thing. There must be a third option [Other] + I would ask supernatural beings where they came from and what they knew about the afterlife.
Posted:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:38 pmby Heloin
New haven america wrote:Can I please stop being visited by supernatural entities in the middle of the night?
When we moved into this forum they said they moved the Indian cemetery but they only moved the headstones.
