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Pashinyan offered to trade his son.

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Is it conscientious for a father to propose his son as a prisoner of war ?

No
19
38%
Yes
21
42%
Undecided
8
16%
Other [Please Specify]
2
4%
 
Total votes : 50

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Salus Maior
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Postby Salus Maior » Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:21 pm

Immortan Khan wrote:The world should unite to reestablish the Treaty of Sèvres.


That'd be nice.

Unfortunately that's not the reality we live in.
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Heloin
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Heloin » Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:23 pm

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:
Heloin wrote:Firstly, since when do you care about territorial integrity? You support military action against Armenians for committing the heinous crime of defending their homes.


I love the Dashnaks, Ազատություն կամ մահ. They defend their homeland from people you support who would see Armenians exterminated from the face of the earth.
I am only sad, I am neither defending the nationalist movement party nor the Dashnaks because I know that racism has no nation and gender.

No you aren't. You've made it clear many times in the past that you consider anyone who defends their home from Turkish aggression a racist.

I condemn the 1991 Armenian government invasion.

You hate Armenians defending their homes. The Karabakh has been Armenian land before the Proto-Turkic language came out of what is now Mongolia. The people living there have been Armenian since before the Romans destroyed Carthage. It has been their land so long the geographic name for the region is Greater Armenia. You don't condemn an invasion, you support one.

The blood of all Armenian and Azerbaijani children who were martyred is in the hands of the Armenian government.

Why do you hate those who saw their homes destroyed last year in a military invasion seeking to exterminate them?

I hope azerbaijan will return all the prisoners of war to armenia, it is a terrible act for a father to go so far as to give his son because of his ambitions

The Prime Minister of Armenia is calling for the release of POWs and is offering his own son as leverage to see Armenians returned home, and now you're going to pretend that you want Armenian POWs released?
Last edited by Heloin on Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum
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Postby Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum » Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:29 pm

Kubra wrote:
Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:I am only sad, I am neither defending the nationalist movement party nor the Dashnaks because I know that racism has no nation and gender. I condemn the 1991 Armenian government invasion. The blood of all Armenian and Azerbaijani children who were martyred is in the hands of the Armenian government. I hope azerbaijan will return all the prisoners of war to armenia, it is a terrible act for a father to go so far as to give his son because of his ambitions
Quick question: why should azeri control be recognised when the region is historically and presently majority armenian?
They resided on the territory of Azerbaijani citizens who were displaced during the 1991 occupation.

Kubra wrote:Probably more theatre than anything else. Either Azerbaijan takes the deal and makes themselves look medieval, or they refuse the deal and look heartless.
What needs to be done is to hand over the Armenian prisoners of war to the Armenian government by protecting their lives.Ilham Aliyev's laughter while the Armenian and Azerbaijani soldiers were dying made me very uncomfortable. Taking wrong steps in a matter that you are right makes you as guilty as the criminal.
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Heloin
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Postby Heloin » Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:44 pm

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:
Kubra wrote: Quick question: why should azeri control be recognised when the region is historically and presently majority armenian?
They resided on the territory of Azerbaijani citizens who were displaced during the 1991 occupation.

The whole of the Azeri population pre 1980 made up less than 20% of the whole regions population and before 1960 less than 10%. That percentage increase comes not from an increase in Azeris but an expulsion of Armenians in the 60s and 70s. Including the territory invaded last year the pre 1980 population of the region still didn't rise to more than 30% Azeri. The Karabakh and it's people are and have always been Armenian.
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Dumb Ideologies
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Mother Knows Best State

Postby Dumb Ideologies » Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:45 pm

⚠️Trade Offer⚠️

I receive: All Armenian prisoners of warYou receive: My most disappointing and useless child
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Heloin
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Postby Heloin » Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:52 pm

Dumb Ideologies wrote:⚠️Trade Offer⚠️

I receive: All Armenian prisoners of warYou receive: My most disappointing and useless child

While I like the joke Ashot Pashinyan was a soldier in the Karabakh against the invasion and supports the move.
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Diarcesia
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Diarcesia » Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:55 pm

Heloin wrote:
Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:They resided on the territory of Azerbaijani citizens who were displaced during the 1991 occupation.

The whole of the Azeri population pre 1980 made up less than 20% of the whole regions population and before 1960 less than 10%. That percentage increase comes not from an increase in Azeris but an expulsion of Armenians in the 60s and 70s. Including the territory invaded last year the pre 1980 population of the region still didn't rise to more than 30% Azeri. The Karabakh and it's people are and have always been Armenian.

Islas Malvinas and its people are and have always been Argentinian.

Only offering a perspective here.

Edit: Heck... Gibraltar and its people are and have always been Spanish could be a more closer analogy.
Last edited by Diarcesia on Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Heloin
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Postby Heloin » Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:04 pm

Diarcesia wrote:
Heloin wrote:The whole of the Azeri population pre 1980 made up less than 20% of the whole regions population and before 1960 less than 10%. That percentage increase comes not from an increase in Azeris but an expulsion of Armenians in the 60s and 70s. Including the territory invaded last year the pre 1980 population of the region still didn't rise to more than 30% Azeri. The Karabakh and it's people are and have always been Armenian.

Islas Malvinas and its people are and have always been Argentinian.

Only offering a perspective here.

Seeing that no Argentinian has ever lived on the Falklands.

Edit: Heck... Gibraltar and its people are and have always been Spanish could be a more closer analogy.

Gibraltar is a bad example as well. The Armenians who've lived in the Karabakh have been the majority in the area since before Rome was an empire, possibly before it was even a Republic.
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Kubra
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Kubra » Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:08 pm

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:
Kubra wrote: Quick question: why should azeri control be recognised when the region is historically and presently majority armenian?
They resided on the territory of Azerbaijani citizens who were displaced during the 1991 occupation.

Kubra wrote:Probably more theatre than anything else. Either Azerbaijan takes the deal and makes themselves look medieval, or they refuse the deal and look heartless.
What needs to be done is to hand over the Armenian prisoners of war to the Armenian government by protecting their lives.Ilham Aliyev's laughter while the Armenian and Azerbaijani soldiers were dying made me very uncomfortable. Taking wrong steps in a matter that you are right makes you as guilty as the criminal.
A territory that in a every census since 1926 was reported as majority armenian?
And if that were a justification, shouldn't the armenians receive a fair chunk of turkish soil, what with having been displace?
Last edited by Kubra on Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum
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Postby Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum » Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:09 pm

Dumb Ideologies wrote:⚠️Trade Offer⚠️

I receive: All Armenian prisoners of warYou receive: My most disappointing and useless child
First of all, don't say it's useless to anyone. Ashot Pashinyan is the son of a father and mother. Conscientious objection is a right. Azerbaijan should not succumb to the terrible and outdated ambition of the Armenian government. conscience is superior to weapon. Azerbaijan should deliver the Armenian soldiers to Armenia as soon as possible.

Heloin wrote:Gibraltar is a bad example as well. The Armenians who've lived in the Karabakh have been the majority in the area since before Rome was an empire, possibly before it was even a Republic.
Yes, before most nations, Armenians were citizens of these lands.
Last edited by Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum on Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Two Jerseys
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Postby The Two Jerseys » Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:31 pm

Galloism wrote:
Vikanias wrote:In a moral sense it’s right, it’s like the train problem. There’s six construction workers on the left. And 1 on the right. You don’t want to kill any of them but you would go right to keep casualties to a minimum.

Relevant video clip

See, that's the problem, people always debate the ethics but they never answer the important question: would someone's foot really fly off their body like that?
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Heloin
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Postby Heloin » Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:37 pm

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:
Heloin wrote:Gibraltar is a bad example as well. The Armenians who've lived in the Karabakh have been the majority in the area since before Rome was an empire, possibly before it was even a Republic.
Yes, before most nations, Armenians were citizens of these lands.

And you support action to remove them from lands they’ve lived on for thousands of years.
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Diarcesia
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Postby Diarcesia » Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:55 pm

Heloin wrote:
Diarcesia wrote:Islas Malvinas and its people are and have always been Argentinian.

Only offering a perspective here.

Seeing that no Argentinian has ever lived on the Falklands.

Edit: Heck... Gibraltar and its people are and have always been Spanish could be a more closer analogy.

Gibraltar is a bad example as well. The Armenians who've lived in the Karabakh have been the majority in the area since before Rome was an empire, possibly before it was even a Republic.

I appreciate you for spelling out the difference.
Last edited by Diarcesia on Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Diarcesia
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Postby Diarcesia » Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:56 pm

Heloin wrote:
Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:Yes, before most nations, Armenians were citizens of these lands.

And you support action to remove them from lands they’ve lived on for thousands of years.

Well I hope it's purely a sovereignty issue and population transfers will be out of the question.

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Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum
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Postby Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum » Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:58 pm

Heloin wrote:
Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:Yes, before most nations, Armenians were citizens of these lands.

And you support action to remove them from lands they’ve lived on for thousands of years.
On September 23, 1991, the government of Armenia was established. This is our difference with you, I know that the Armenian nation is superior to racist governments. I won't answer you because you are a supporter of the Dashnak. I will continue to be against all kinds of fascist attitudes. Let the racist party supporters who are hostile to Turks and Armenians talk to themselves. Conscientious social democrats are superior to you. The Turkish deep state that shot Hrant Dink is in line with the racist parties of Armenia.
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Lady Victory
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Postby Lady Victory » Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:01 pm

Kubra wrote:
Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:I am only sad, I am neither defending the nationalist movement party nor the Dashnaks because I know that racism has no nation and gender. I condemn the 1991 Armenian government invasion. The blood of all Armenian and Azerbaijani children who were martyred is in the hands of the Armenian government. I hope azerbaijan will return all the prisoners of war to armenia, it is a terrible act for a father to go so far as to give his son because of his ambitions
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Quick question: why should azeri control be recognised when the region is historically and presently majority armenian?


Because Hakinda doesn't care about Armenians.
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Kubra
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Postby Kubra » Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:02 pm

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:
Heloin wrote:And you support action to remove them from lands they’ve lived on for thousands of years.
On September 23, 1991, the government of Armenia was established. This is our difference with you, I know that the Armenian nation is superior to racist governments. I won't answer you because you are a supporter of the Dashnak. I will continue to be against all kinds of fascist attitudes. Let the racist party supporters who are hostile to Turks and Armenians talk to themselves. Conscientious social democrats are superior to you. The Turkish deep state that shot Hrant Dink is in line with the racist parties of Armenia.
Hepimiz Ermeniyiz !
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You have not answered the matter of the land being majority armenian.
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Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum
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Postby Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum » Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:17 pm

Kubra wrote:
Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:They resided on the territory of Azerbaijani citizens who were displaced during the 1991 occupation.

What needs to be done is to hand over the Armenian prisoners of war to the Armenian government by protecting their lives.Ilham Aliyev's laughter while the Armenian and Azerbaijani soldiers were dying made me very uncomfortable. Taking wrong steps in a matter that you are right makes you as guilty as the criminal.
A territory that in a every census since 1926 was reported as majority armenian?
And if that were a justification, shouldn't the armenians receive a fair chunk of turkish soil, what with having been displace?
The state exists for the society, but the state should treat the society fairly. The so-called referendum of 10 December 1991 was held in the occupation environment, ignoring the Azerbaijanis. typical middle eastern mentality. A land is taken either by occupation or by the justice of the nation. Occupation is a concept that only fascists will use.

Egemenlik kayıtsız şartsız milletindir
Ինքնիշխանությունն անվերապահորեն պատկանում է ժողովրդին
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Heloin
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Postby Heloin » Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:20 pm

Diarcesia wrote:
Heloin wrote:And you support action to remove them from lands they’ve lived on for thousands of years.

Well I hope it's purely a sovereignty issue and population transfers will be out of the question.

Population transfers are ethnic cleansing agreed to by two governments.
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Kubra
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Postby Kubra » Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:26 pm

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:
Kubra wrote: A territory that in a every census since 1926 was reported as majority armenian?
And if that were a justification, shouldn't the armenians receive a fair chunk of turkish soil, what with having been displace?
The state exists for the society, but the state should treat the society fairly. The so-called referendum of 10 December 1991 was held in the occupation environment, ignoring the Azerbaijanis. typical middle eastern mentality. A land is taken either by occupation or by the justice of the nation. Occupation is a concept that only fascists will use.

Egemenlik kayıtsız şartsız milletindir
Ինքնիշխանությունն անվերապահորեն պատկանում է ժողովրդին
Sovereignty unconditionally belongs to the People
Azerbaijani's who deliberately boycotted the vote. And in any case, given the demographic disparity, do you really think much would have changed if they had not called for a boycott?
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Samudera Darussalam
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Samudera Darussalam » Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:34 pm

Islamic Holy Sites wrote:
Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:I am only sad, I am neither defending the nationalist movement party nor the Dashnaks because I know that racism has no nation and gender. I condemn the 1991 Armenian government invasion. The blood of all Armenian and Azerbaijani children who were martyred is in the hands of the Armenian government. I hope azerbaijan will return all the prisoners of war to armenia, it is a terrible act for a father to go so far as to give his son because of his ambitions

Why did the EU take part of Iraq and leave the rest?

Turkish sovereignity over Kurdish lands lmao

That is a bad map

On the OP, it's a really strange move that I thought doesn't exist again in a modern era. The most recent similar thing that I can think of is the Korean prince that is sent to imperial Japan, though not in the context of prisoner swap afaik.
Both nations should have just exchange prisoners or just release the POWs to their countries once the war is over.

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Diarcesia
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Diarcesia » Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:37 pm

Samudera Darussalam wrote:
Islamic Holy Sites wrote:Why did the EU take part of Iraq and leave the rest?

Turkish sovereignity over Kurdish lands lmao

That is a bad map

On the OP, it's a really strange move that I thought doesn't exist again in a modern era. The most recent similar thing that I can think of is the Korean prince that is sent to imperial Japan, though not in the context of prisoner swap afaik.
Both nations should have just exchange prisoners or just release the POWs to their countries once the war is over.

Not shown: Independent Kurdistan ;)

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Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum
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Postby Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum » Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:37 pm

Kubra wrote:
Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:The state exists for the society, but the state should treat the society fairly. The so-called referendum of 10 December 1991 was held in the occupation environment, ignoring the Azerbaijanis. typical middle eastern mentality. A land is taken either by occupation or by the justice of the nation. Occupation is a concept that only fascists will use.

Egemenlik kayıtsız şartsız milletindir
Ինքնիշխանությունն անվերապահորեն պատկանում է ժողովրդին
Sovereignty unconditionally belongs to the People
Azerbaijani's who deliberately boycotted the vote. And in any case, given the demographic disparity, do you really think much would have changed if they had not called for a boycott?
Every vote counts for every person. The more correct the elections in Syria are, the more correct they are in the elections under the occupation administration of Armenia. We will not give anyone's rights to the fascists
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Kubra
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Kubra » Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:40 pm

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:
Kubra wrote: Azerbaijani's who deliberately boycotted the vote. And in any case, given the demographic disparity, do you really think much would have changed if they had not called for a boycott?
Every vote counts for every person. The more correct the elections in Syria are, the more correct they are in the elections under the occupation administration of Armenia. We will not give anyone's rights to the fascists
Sure, but it was a deliberate boycott. They chose not to participate. If every election or referendum were conducted as you would seem to like, the democratic process would simply cease to function. I could simply ring up the federal government, tell them I'd refused to vote, and the whole thing would have to be scrapped.
Last edited by Kubra on Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum
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Postby Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum » Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:54 pm

Kubra wrote:
Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:Every vote counts for every person. The more correct the elections in Syria are, the more correct they are in the elections under the occupation administration of Armenia. We will not give anyone's rights to the fascists
Sure, but it was a deliberate boycott. They chose not to participate. If every election or referendum were conducted as you would seem to like, the democratic process would simply cease to function. I could simply ring up the federal government, tell them I'd refused to vote, and the whole thing would have to be scrapped.
Yes, but it was done to protect the honor of the Azerbaijanis who were killed and expelled by the occupying Armenian government. I do not trust the so-called democracy of the occupiers, but the honorable democracy of the people. You really need to look at this matter objectively. It is necessary to approach with an independent fair point of view rather than Muslim Christian parties.
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