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Pashinyan offered to trade his son.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Is it conscientious for a father to propose his son as a prisoner of war ?

No
19
38%
Yes
21
42%
Undecided
8
16%
Other [Please Specify]
2
4%
 
Total votes : 50

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Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum
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Pashinyan offered to trade his son.

Postby Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum » Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:57 pm

Prime Minister of Armenia Nikol Pashinyan, who held rallies before the parliamentary elections in Armenia, He called on Azerbaijan to return all Armenian prisoners against his son. What do nationstates users think about this ? In my opinion, Pashinyan is a person who cannot really master the geography of the region, he should not mix his own child in the occupation policy of Armenia. Those who support the war should be tried in Armenian courts. An Armenian leader who recognizes the Turks, Iranians and Georgians who favor peace should come to power. Conscientious Turks, Armenians and Georgians are tired of the call for war, the period of the crusades is over, it is now the time of unity.

https://tass.com/world/1300519
https://www.sozcu.com.tr/2021/dunya/pasinyandan-secim-vaadi-oglumu-verip-esirleri-alacagim-6476505/
Last edited by Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum on Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Page
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Postby Page » Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:20 pm

What is the son's age? Is he an adult?

I mean yeah it sounds bizarre but rulers offering family as hostages was a practice for much of history. And if there are 100's of Armenian POW's and Azerbaijan would consider such a trade, it would be a moral decision from a utilitarian perspective.

If the son is an adult and consents then I don't see it as wrong, but I highly doubt it will happen.
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Postby Sundiata » Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:23 pm

I believe that Vladimir Putin should back the Armenian people against the Turks and Azerbaijan.
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Postby Luziyca » Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:30 pm

If it ensures the release of all the Armenian prisoners-of-war in Azerbaijan, I'd argue that the upsides vastly outweigh the downsides from that of an Armenian perspective, even if offering the release of all Azerbaijani prisoners-of-war in Armenia would be far more effective in ensuring the release of Armenian prisoners-of-war.
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Postby Heloin » Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:51 am

Willing to sacrifice his family to free Armenians from racist warmongers like you. It’s likely he’s not actually offering his son, but your first reaction to the freeing of POWs is that Armenians should be imprisoned for regional “unity” makes it pretty clear that this is little more then your hatred against Armenians showing again.
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Unstoppable Empire of Doom
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Postby Unstoppable Empire of Doom » Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:25 am

A common practice until the modern age. Azerbaijan saves the money of housing pow's. The freed prisoners go home to their families. They go back to work in their already impoverished nation. I mean this is pretty much beneficial to everyone but his son and their family. I can respect it.
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Postby Ikania » Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:31 am

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:Conscientious Turks, Armenians and Georgians are tired of the call for war, the period of the crusades is over, it is now the time of unity.

While I respect your good will, this statement stopped meaning anything when Azerbaijan sent troops into Karabakh last year.

Pashinyan made a terrible decision beating his chest and paid for it dearly with the lives of Armenian soldiers and ancestral land. I don't think he'll ever be remembered for much other than being the President who lost Artsakh. This is just a little sad to see.
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Postby Linessia » Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:08 am

An Armenian leader who recognizes the Turks, Iranians and Georgians who favor peace should come to power.

By which you mean, an Armenian leader who lets the genocide of his/her people by Turks and Azeris proceed unencumbered by the nation's self-defense?

You have to live in an alternate reality to say things like this.
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Postby Roegerland » Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:11 am

Linessia wrote:
An Armenian leader who recognizes the Turks, Iranians and Georgians who favor peace should come to power.

By which you mean, an Armenian leader who lets the genocide of his/her people by Turks and Azeris proceed unencumbered by the nation's self-defense?

You have to live in an alternate reality to say things like this.

Well he's a Turk nationalist sooo.....
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Postby Vikanias » Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:15 am

In a moral sense it’s right, it’s like the train problem. There’s six construction workers on the left. And 1 on the right. You don’t want to kill any of them but you would go right to keep casualties to a minimum.
Last edited by Vikanias on Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Galloism » Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:19 am

Vikanias wrote:In a moral sense it’s right, it’s like the train problem. There’s six construction workers on the left. And 1 on the right. You don’t want to kill any of them but you would go right to keep casualties to a minimum.

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Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum
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Postby Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum » Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:16 am

Ikania wrote:
Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:Conscientious Turks, Armenians and Georgians are tired of the call for war, the period of the crusades is over, it is now the time of unity.

While I respect your good will, this statement stopped meaning anything when Azerbaijan sent troops into Karabakh last year.

Pashinyan made a terrible decision beating his chest and paid for it dearly with the lives of Armenian soldiers and ancestral land. I don't think he'll ever be remembered for much other than being the President who lost Artsakh. This is just a little sad to see.

Heloin wrote:Willing to sacrifice his family to free Armenians from racist warmongers like you. It’s likely he’s not actually offering his son, but your first reaction to the freeing of POWs is that Armenians should be imprisoned for regional “unity” makes it pretty clear that this is little more then your hatred against Armenians showing again.
Look, I want to explain it to you by giving an example.The Turkish government has no territorial claims in Western Thrace, Syria and Iraq. Likewise, the government of Azerbaijan has no desire on the territory of Armenia. However, the Armenian government officially claims the territory of the Azerbaijani, Georgian and Turkish governments. Azerbaijan only tried to preserve its territorial integrity guaranteed by the united nations. All the people of the world and the region know this, but the Armenian government does not want to understand it. Heloin, I strongly condemn you calling me a racist. If you want to look for real racists, I suggest you look at the Nationalist Movement Party and the Armenian Revolutionary Federation.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Armenia
Last edited by Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum on Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Heloin
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Postby Heloin » Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:27 am

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:
Ikania wrote:While I respect your good will, this statement stopped meaning anything when Azerbaijan sent troops into Karabakh last year.

Pashinyan made a terrible decision beating his chest and paid for it dearly with the lives of Armenian soldiers and ancestral land. I don't think he'll ever be remembered for much other than being the President who lost Artsakh. This is just a little sad to see.

Heloin wrote:Willing to sacrifice his family to free Armenians from racist warmongers like you. It’s likely he’s not actually offering his son, but your first reaction to the freeing of POWs is that Armenians should be imprisoned for regional “unity” makes it pretty clear that this is little more then your hatred against Armenians showing again.
Look, I want to explain it to you by giving an example.The Turkish government has no territorial claims in Western Thrace, Syria and Iraq. Likewise, the government of Azerbaijan has no desire on the territory of Armenia. However, the Armenian government officially claims the territory of the Azerbaijani, Georgian and Turkish governments. Azerbaijan only tried to preserve its territorial integrity guaranteed by the united nations. All the people of the world and the region know this, but the Armenian government does not want to understand it.

Firstly, since when do you care about territorial integrity? You support military action against Armenians for committing the heinous crime of defending their homes.

Heloin, I strongly condemn you calling me a racist. If you want to look for real racists, I suggest you look at the Nationalist Movement Party and the Armenian Revolutionary Federation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Armenia

I love the Dashnaks, Ազատություն կամ մահ. They defend their homeland from people you support who would see Armenians exterminated from the face of the earth.
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Postby CoraSpia » Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:36 am

Page wrote:What is the son's age? Is he an adult?

I mean yeah it sounds bizarre but rulers offering family as hostages was a practice for much of history. And if there are 100's of Armenian POW's and Azerbaijan would consider such a trade, it would be a moral decision from a utilitarian perspective.

If the son is an adult and consents then I don't see it as wrong, but I highly doubt it will happen.

The son is an adult, or at least I think he is. He served in the army in 2020.
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Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum
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Postby Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum » Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:38 am

Heloin wrote:
Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:Look, I want to explain it to you by giving an example.The Turkish government has no territorial claims in Western Thrace, Syria and Iraq. Likewise, the government of Azerbaijan has no desire on the territory of Armenia. However, the Armenian government officially claims the territory of the Azerbaijani, Georgian and Turkish governments. Azerbaijan only tried to preserve its territorial integrity guaranteed by the united nations. All the people of the world and the region know this, but the Armenian government does not want to understand it.

Firstly, since when do you care about territorial integrity? You support military action against Armenians for committing the heinous crime of defending their homes.

Heloin, I strongly condemn you calling me a racist. If you want to look for real racists, I suggest you look at the Nationalist Movement Party and the Armenian Revolutionary Federation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Armenia

I love the Dashnaks, Ազատություն կամ մահ. They defend their homeland from people you support who would see Armenians exterminated from the face of the earth.
I am only sad, I am neither defending the nationalist movement party nor the Dashnaks because I know that racism has no nation and gender. I condemn the 1991 Armenian government invasion. The blood of all Armenian and Azerbaijani children who were martyred is in the hands of the Armenian government. I hope azerbaijan will return all the prisoners of war to armenia, it is a terrible act for a father to go so far as to give his son because of his ambitions
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Last edited by Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum on Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby CoraSpia » Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:44 am

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:
Heloin wrote:Firstly, since when do you care about territorial integrity? You support military action against Armenians for committing the heinous crime of defending their homes.


I love the Dashnaks, Ազատություն կամ մահ. They defend their homeland from people you support who would see Armenians exterminated from the face of the earth.
I am only sad, I am neither defending the nationalist movement party nor the Dashnaks because I know that racism has no nation and gender. I condemn the 1991 Armenian government invasion. The blood of all Armenian and Azerbaijani children who were martyred is in the hands of the Armenian government. I hope azerbaijan will return all the prisoners of war to armenia, it is a terrible act for a father to go so far as to give his son because of his ambitions
Image

Methinks that the father (and the son from what I can tell from his past actions) are saying this to show how much they care about their country and its people. It's a symbolic gesture more than anything and I very much doubt they'll know what to do if Azerbaijan calls their bluff on it.
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Postby Diarcesia » Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:44 am

"Pashinyan offered to trade his son as a hostage..."
Caesar Augustus approves.

"...in exchange for prisoners."
Caesar Augustus does not approve.

Still, it's surreal that Pashinyan's seriously considering a practice that wasn't widespread since antiquity.

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Postby Immortan Khan » Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:50 am

The world should unite to reestablish the Treaty of Sèvres.
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Postby Diarcesia » Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:53 am

CoraSpia wrote:
Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:I am only sad, I am neither defending the nationalist movement party nor the Dashnaks because I know that racism has no nation and gender. I condemn the 1991 Armenian government invasion. The blood of all Armenian and Azerbaijani children who were martyred is in the hands of the Armenian government. I hope azerbaijan will return all the prisoners of war to armenia, it is a terrible act for a father to go so far as to give his son because of his ambitions
Image

Methinks that the father (and the son from what I can tell from his past actions) are saying this to show how much they care about their country and its people. It's a symbolic gesture more than anything and I very much doubt they'll know what to do if Azerbaijan calls their bluff on it.

The Armenians will have Pashinyan's head if Azerbaijan calls it.

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Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum
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Postby Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum » Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:56 am

Immortan Khan wrote:The world should unite to reestablish the Treaty of Sèvres.
The world is interested in science to benefit humanity rather than disrupt the peace treaty. Middle Eastern governments should follow the example of the European Union. İrticaya Geçit Yok !
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Postby Immortan Khan » Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:57 am

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:
Immortan Khan wrote:The world should unite to reestablish the Treaty of Sèvres.
The world is interested in science to benefit humanity rather than disrupt the peace treaty. Middle Eastern governments should follow the example of the European Union. İrticaya Geçit Yok !

I agree, this is why Ba'athist pan-Arab nationalism should come back and unite with the Greeks and Armenians against Turkey
Last edited by Immortan Khan on Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:58 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Islamic Holy Sites » Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:05 pm

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:
Heloin wrote:Firstly, since when do you care about territorial integrity? You support military action against Armenians for committing the heinous crime of defending their homes.


I love the Dashnaks, Ազատություն կամ մահ. They defend their homeland from people you support who would see Armenians exterminated from the face of the earth.
I am only sad, I am neither defending the nationalist movement party nor the Dashnaks because I know that racism has no nation and gender. I condemn the 1991 Armenian government invasion. The blood of all Armenian and Azerbaijani children who were martyred is in the hands of the Armenian government. I hope azerbaijan will return all the prisoners of war to armenia, it is a terrible act for a father to go so far as to give his son because of his ambitions
Image

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Postby Kubra » Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:07 pm

Probably more theatre than anything else. Either Azerbaijan takes the deal and makes themselves look medieval, or they refuse the deal and look heartless.
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Postby Kubra » Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:12 pm

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:
Heloin wrote:Firstly, since when do you care about territorial integrity? You support military action against Armenians for committing the heinous crime of defending their homes.


I love the Dashnaks, Ազատություն կամ մահ. They defend their homeland from people you support who would see Armenians exterminated from the face of the earth.
I am only sad, I am neither defending the nationalist movement party nor the Dashnaks because I know that racism has no nation and gender. I condemn the 1991 Armenian government invasion. The blood of all Armenian and Azerbaijani children who were martyred is in the hands of the Armenian government. I hope azerbaijan will return all the prisoners of war to armenia, it is a terrible act for a father to go so far as to give his son because of his ambitions
Image
Quick question: why should azeri control be recognised when the region is historically and presently majority armenian?
Last edited by Kubra on Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Salus Maior » Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:20 pm

Oh great, another Hakinda thread on Armenia.

Because a Nationalist Turk is going to be an unbiased source.
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