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Who should be able to buy houses?

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Sultasian
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Postby Sultasian » Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:28 pm

I mean if you are legal citizen of some country and if you have enough money you should be able to buy a house without any restrictions. I don't see any reason why someone wouldn't be allowed to buy it. :blink:

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Grenartia
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Postby Grenartia » Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:50 pm

Kubra wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
I mean, ideally, yes, but that's quite the pipe dream in the current political climate, especially in the South. And even if it can be politically done, practically speaking, private vehicles would still be necessary for a significant portion of the population.
We would frankly have to totally reorient how we approach urban planning to make mass public transport sustainable.
...Which is not a bad idea, but frankly communism may be more reasonable a demand than that.


I don't even think its a matter of communism vs capitalism, or urban planning (though that can certainly alter the degree of the issue). Its just an inherent fact of life that you're always going to need to go somewhere that public transport either doesn't reach, or is inefficient at reaching in a timely fashion, or when you need to transport more cargo than you can carry in your arms, and less cargo than can be justified to rent a moving van (say, grocery store trips, or going to the laundromat).
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Daeju
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Postby Daeju » Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:53 pm

Alcala-Cordel wrote:No one should be able to buy houses

Or sell houses

Or own houses


But everyone is entitled to a home

In the long term, this would be an excellent goal. But in the short term, having the government provide everyone a home would be a good first step.
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The Emerald Legion
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Postby The Emerald Legion » Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:45 pm

Alcala-Cordel wrote:
CoraSpia wrote:Nope, you're entitled to what you can afford. Taxpayers (which always just means richer people) have no reason to give you shit for free.

Nope, people are worth more than their monetary possessions and are all entitled to a certain standard of living. Besides, who said anything about the taxpayer? The collective will pay for it, but it can be done with the labor value already stolen from them by the 1%.


No they're not. Simply being born doesn't entitle you to anything, save for what your community/family is willing to give.
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Heloin
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Postby Heloin » Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:52 pm

The Emerald Legion wrote:
Alcala-Cordel wrote:Nope, people are worth more than their monetary possessions and are all entitled to a certain standard of living. Besides, who said anything about the taxpayer? The collective will pay for it, but it can be done with the labor value already stolen from them by the 1%.


No they're not. Simply being born doesn't entitle you to anything, save for what your community/family is willing to give.

Why does the accident of birth mean someone born to wealth is more entitled than those who are not.
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Kubra
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Postby Kubra » Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:01 pm

Grenartia wrote:
Kubra wrote: We would frankly have to totally reorient how we approach urban planning to make mass public transport sustainable.
...Which is not a bad idea, but frankly communism may be more reasonable a demand than that.


I don't even think its a matter of communism vs capitalism, or urban planning (though that can certainly alter the degree of the issue). Its just an inherent fact of life that you're always going to need to go somewhere that public transport either doesn't reach, or is inefficient at reaching in a timely fashion, or when you need to transport more cargo than you can carry in your arms, and less cargo than can be justified to rent a moving van (say, grocery store trips, or going to the laundromat).
A joke was missed. What I said was that a communist revolution was more likely than us giving up our suburbs.
Plenty of places have nowhere that public transport cannot reach, but is a matter of apples and oranges.
Last edited by Kubra on Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Emerald Legion
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Postby The Emerald Legion » Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:05 pm

Heloin wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:
No they're not. Simply being born doesn't entitle you to anything, save for what your community/family is willing to give.

Why does the accident of birth mean someone born to wealth is more entitled than those who are not.


Because that's who those with wealth choose to lavish said wealth upon. A rich person doesn't necessarily have to give anything to their kids. They could choose to give it to someone else.
"23.The unwise man is awake all night, and ponders everything over; when morning comes he is weary in mind, and all is a burden as ever." - Havamal

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Kubra
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Postby Kubra » Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:10 pm

The Emerald Legion wrote:
Heloin wrote:Why does the accident of birth mean someone born to wealth is more entitled than those who are not.


Because that's who those with wealth choose to lavish said wealth upon. A rich person doesn't necessarily have to give anything to their kids. They could choose to give it to someone else.
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Heloin
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Postby Heloin » Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:11 pm

The Emerald Legion wrote:
Heloin wrote:Why does the accident of birth mean someone born to wealth is more entitled than those who are not.


Because that's who those with wealth choose to lavish said wealth upon. A rich person doesn't necessarily have to give anything to their kids. They could choose to give it to someone else.

Rather hypocritical. If you really thought no one was entitled to anything then you’d be against that sort of thing surely. Otherwise it’s little more then a statement that rich people are allowed to be entitled.
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The Emerald Legion
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Postby The Emerald Legion » Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:15 pm

Heloin wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:
Because that's who those with wealth choose to lavish said wealth upon. A rich person doesn't necessarily have to give anything to their kids. They could choose to give it to someone else.

Rather hypocritical. If you really thought no one was entitled to anything then you’d be against that sort of thing surely. Otherwise it’s little more then a statement that rich people are allowed to be entitled.


How so? I'm not an objectivist. I'm not against the giving of gifts. I don't have any bizarre delusions about all wealth needing to be 'earned'. Luck is as much an inherent ability as intelligence or strength.

But the choice of the giving is in the hand of the giver. It's theirs, not yours, and yes. They will in all likelyhood choose to benefit those close to them and not some envious strangers.
"23.The unwise man is awake all night, and ponders everything over; when morning comes he is weary in mind, and all is a burden as ever." - Havamal

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Senkaku
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Postby Senkaku » Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:26 pm

The Emerald Legion wrote:Luck is as much an inherent ability as intelligence or strength.

what
haters will see you growing on a finite planet and say you can't grow infinitely

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Heloin
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Postby Heloin » Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:27 pm

The Emerald Legion wrote:
Heloin wrote:Rather hypocritical. If you really thought no one was entitled to anything then you’d be against that sort of thing surely. Otherwise it’s little more then a statement that rich people are allowed to be entitled.


How so? I'm not an objectivist. I'm not against the giving of gifts. I don't have any bizarre delusions about all wealth needing to be 'earned'. Luck is as much an inherent ability as intelligence or strength.

But the choice of the giving is in the hand of the giver. It's theirs, not yours, and yes. They will in all likelyhood choose to benefit those close to them and not some envious strangers.

Then you do think people are entitled for doing nothing but being born. The only difference is you think some people are more entitled then others.
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Kubra
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Postby Kubra » Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:31 pm

The Emerald Legion wrote:
Heloin wrote:Rather hypocritical. If you really thought no one was entitled to anything then you’d be against that sort of thing surely. Otherwise it’s little more then a statement that rich people are allowed to be entitled.


How so? I'm not an objectivist. I'm not against the giving of gifts. I don't have any bizarre delusions about all wealth needing to be 'earned'. Luck is as much an inherent ability as intelligence or strength.

But the choice of the giving is in the hand of the giver. It's theirs, not yours, and yes. They will in all likelyhood choose to benefit those close to them and not some envious strangers.
One might recall the frankish empire, split and fractured because the thing was mere personal property.
But it was theirs to dispose of as they pleased, yes?
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The Emerald Legion
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Postby The Emerald Legion » Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:37 pm

Senkaku wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:Luck is as much an inherent ability as intelligence or strength.

what


Some people are lucky. Others aren't.

Heloin wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:
How so? I'm not an objectivist. I'm not against the giving of gifts. I don't have any bizarre delusions about all wealth needing to be 'earned'. Luck is as much an inherent ability as intelligence or strength.

But the choice of the giving is in the hand of the giver. It's theirs, not yours, and yes. They will in all likelyhood choose to benefit those close to them and not some envious strangers.

Then you do think people are entitled for doing nothing but being born. The only difference is you think some people are more entitled then others.


Entitled is a weird word. It doesn't fit the concept, it's just what you use because you're upset about it.

Everyone is born with a different Orlæg. Different circumstances of birth and pre-ordained abilities. That's not an entitlement it's just reality. Some are born in prosperous countries to wealthy families. Others are born in desperate circumstances, the children of criminals or terrorists, and many are born in between. Some people are born smarter, stronger, or luckier than others.

You're not *stuck* where you start, your Orlæg isn't your destiny, and you can change your circumstances. You can excercise to grow your strength. You can educate yourself to make better use of your mind. But where you start is basically up to fate and there's no system that can change that.

Likewise, what happens to you in life is not up to you. You don't determine if a drunk driver takes your road or not. You don't determine if a meteor hits you. The world is fundamentally not in your hands to control or dictate. And so what your ultimate fate is, is less important than how you choose to meet it. A man born rich, who does nothing with that money is lesser than one who is poor, and remains poorer than he, but still accomplishes something in his life.
"23.The unwise man is awake all night, and ponders everything over; when morning comes he is weary in mind, and all is a burden as ever." - Havamal

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Kubra
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Postby Kubra » Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:42 pm

The Emerald Legion wrote:"You're not *stuck* where you start, your Orlæg isn't your destiny, and you can change your circumstances
I now feel guilty for every time I ever said "weltanschauung".
Very sorry everyone.
Last edited by Kubra on Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
“Atomic war is inevitable. It will destroy half of humanity: it is going to destroy immense human riches. It is very possible. The atomic war is going to provoke a true inferno on Earth. But it will not impede Communism.”
-Comrade Posadas

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The Emerald Legion
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Postby The Emerald Legion » Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:45 pm

Kubra wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:"You're not *stuck* where you start, your Orlæg isn't your destiny, and you can change your circumstances
I now feel guilty for every time I ever said "weltanschauung".
Very sorry everyone.


It is kind of awkward using the word in type. Saying it is easy, typing out the funny letters not so much. But in any case, it's kind of a complicated word and it's really hard to substitute for.
"23.The unwise man is awake all night, and ponders everything over; when morning comes he is weary in mind, and all is a burden as ever." - Havamal

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Kubra
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Postby Kubra » Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:47 pm

The Emerald Legion wrote:
Kubra wrote: I now feel guilty for every time I ever said "weltanschauung".
Very sorry everyone.


It is kind of awkward using the word in type. Saying it is easy, typing out the funny letters not so much. But in any case, it's kind of a complicated word and it's really hard to substitute for.
The usage here seems to be synonymous with "fate", man. There is perhaps theoretical ways in which weltanschauung is differentiated from the term world-view, but I do not think I have ever used it in such a way.
“Atomic war is inevitable. It will destroy half of humanity: it is going to destroy immense human riches. It is very possible. The atomic war is going to provoke a true inferno on Earth. But it will not impede Communism.”
-Comrade Posadas

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The Emerald Legion
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Postby The Emerald Legion » Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:52 pm

Kubra wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:
It is kind of awkward using the word in type. Saying it is easy, typing out the funny letters not so much. But in any case, it's kind of a complicated word and it's really hard to substitute for.
The usage here seems to be synonymous with "fate", man. There is perhaps theoretical ways in which weltanschauung is differentiated from the term world-view, but I do not think I have ever used it in such a way.


It's less fate and more 'The culmination of events that came before.' If I had to try and explain it.

The beginning of any person's life is profoundly influenced by the events that came prior to them, but those events are out of their control. If your uncle gets shot a year before you're born, there's not a lot you can do about that. Whatever influence, good or ill, he would have personally had on your life simply isn't there because he's gone.

Likewise, there's not a lot you can do about your parents, or grandparents becoming wealthy or becoming poor.
"23.The unwise man is awake all night, and ponders everything over; when morning comes he is weary in mind, and all is a burden as ever." - Havamal

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Kubra
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Postby Kubra » Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:54 pm

The Emerald Legion wrote:
Kubra wrote: The usage here seems to be synonymous with "fate", man. There is perhaps theoretical ways in which weltanschauung is differentiated from the term world-view, but I do not think I have ever used it in such a way.


It's less fate and more 'The culmination of events that came before.' If I had to try and explain it.

The beginning of any person's life is profoundly influenced by the events that came prior to them, but those events are out of their control. If your uncle gets shot a year before you're born, there's not a lot you can do about that. Whatever influence, good or ill, he would have personally had on your life simply isn't there because he's gone.

Likewise, there's not a lot you can do about your parents, or grandparents becoming wealthy or becoming poor.
Yes, but no one is going to perceive it as such when it is thrown out naked.
“Atomic war is inevitable. It will destroy half of humanity: it is going to destroy immense human riches. It is very possible. The atomic war is going to provoke a true inferno on Earth. But it will not impede Communism.”
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Bursken
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Postby Bursken » Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:12 pm

Azalfia wrote:Isn't land as naturally occurring as air, is needed to survive, produce oxygen, food, water, literally everything for human existence, right? We don't sell air for money; why do we sell land for money?


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Senkaku
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Postby Senkaku » Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:07 pm

The Emerald Legion wrote:
Senkaku wrote:what


Some people are lucky. Others aren't.


How in God’s name is luck an “inherent ability like intelligence or strength” though lmao
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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:56 pm

Senkaku wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:
Some people are lucky. Others aren't.


How in God’s name is luck an “inherent ability like intelligence or strength” though lmao

it's the 6th stat in video games for a reason :p
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Kubra
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Postby Kubra » Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:02 pm

Senkaku wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:
Some people are lucky. Others aren't.


How in God’s name is luck an “inherent ability like intelligence or strength” though lmao
Especially since, as everyone knows, leopard print pajama's raise your luck by 1. Never go to a casino without em.
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Comerciante
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Postby Comerciante » Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:19 pm

Me. I should own all the houses. That way there can be no conflict about housing because I own all the houses and why can you trust me with all the houses because I'm not going to sell any of them. I'm going to live in all of them. A different house every hour.
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Nilokeras
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Postby Nilokeras » Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:39 pm

The Emerald Legion wrote:Entitled is a weird word. It doesn't fit the concept, it's just what you use because you're upset about it.

Everyone is born with a different Orlæg. Different circumstances of birth and pre-ordained abilities. That's not an entitlement it's just reality. Some are born in prosperous countries to wealthy families. Others are born in desperate circumstances, the children of criminals or terrorists, and many are born in between. Some people are born smarter, stronger, or luckier than others.

You're not *stuck* where you start, your Orlæg isn't your destiny, and you can change your circumstances. You can excercise to grow your strength. You can educate yourself to make better use of your mind. But where you start is basically up to fate and there's no system that can change that.

Likewise, what happens to you in life is not up to you. You don't determine if a drunk driver takes your road or not. You don't determine if a meteor hits you. The world is fundamentally not in your hands to control or dictate. And so what your ultimate fate is, is less important than how you choose to meet it. A man born rich, who does nothing with that money is lesser than one who is poor, and remains poorer than he, but still accomplishes something in his life.


it takes some doing to invent a religious doctrine that is even more fatalistic than the wildest orientalist distortion of Hinduism. Doubly so when that doctrine seems to have been invented out of wholecloth by an obscure academic in the 1970s with a weak grasp of philology.

Like being a reconstructionist pagan is fine and all but do the necessary work at the very least.

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