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Nativism vs. "your ancestors weren't from here either"

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Borderlands of Rojava
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Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Sat Jun 05, 2021 6:42 am

Czechostan wrote:
Koletsia wrote:Totally unbiased bunch of people.

:lol: This is golden.

From now on, research can only be conducted by people with WASP-y names.


Wow, a white nationalist doesn't trust minorities? Color me shocked.
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Borderlands of Rojava
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Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Sat Jun 05, 2021 6:44 am

Brittany Normandy Aquitaine wrote:Conquest is different from immigration.

Conquest is the invasion and taking of land, and naturally a nation will put their people in that land. That is what every nation in history has done to conquered land.

Immigration is the migration to new lands. Naturally, to understand the people around you in your new nation, you will learn the new language and become one with their culture.

The Americans conquered the American Indians.
Mexicans are immigrating into the USA (it has become somewhat of an invasion without troops with hispanic majority towns and cities near the southern border on the USA side now and because of mass-immigration)


If you think Mexicans immigrating to America constitute an invasion, you've never lived through an actual invasion. Genghis Khan riding through your village pillaging and murdering is an invasion, not middleofnowhere, Texas becoming 70% hispanic over 20 years.
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Page
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Postby Page » Sat Jun 05, 2021 7:17 am

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
Brittany Normandy Aquitaine wrote:Conquest is different from immigration.

Conquest is the invasion and taking of land, and naturally a nation will put their people in that land. That is what every nation in history has done to conquered land.

Immigration is the migration to new lands. Naturally, to understand the people around you in your new nation, you will learn the new language and become one with their culture.

The Americans conquered the American Indians.
Mexicans are immigrating into the USA (it has become somewhat of an invasion without troops with hispanic majority towns and cities near the southern border on the USA side now and because of mass-immigration)


If you think Mexicans immigrating to America constitute an invasion, you've never lived through an actual invasion. Genghis Khan riding through your village pillaging and murdering is an invasion, not middleofnowhere, Texas becoming 70% hispanic over 20 years.


The closest Americans ever get to experiencing an invasion is when the police are on a rampage, like the people who got tear gas shot at them last year for the crime of standing on their own porch. Though at least it's been some 40 years since the last time the police firebombed several city blocks.
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Risottia
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Postby Risottia » Sat Jun 05, 2021 8:12 am

Ifreann wrote:
Borderlands of Rojava wrote:The white people living in places like Australia or the US really can't go back anywhere at this point. Besides the fact many of them are a mix of European ethnicities and other ethnicities too, there's also the fact that they've lived their whole lives down under or in the land of the free, so i don't see why they should have to move.

XKCD: "It's a bit silly to say that immigrants coming to America should learn English"
OP: "So you're saying that all white people should leave all former colonies?"

Ceterum censeo it's about time we removed Germans from places like Colonia Agrippina and sent them back to Sarmatia or Scania or whatever.
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Diarcesia
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Diarcesia » Sat Jun 05, 2021 8:21 am

Czechostan wrote:
Koletsia wrote:Totally unbiased bunch of people.

:lol: This is golden.

From now on, research can only be conducted by people with WASP-y names.

John Smith, James Cook, Jehoshaphat Miller, Boaty McBoatface.

Risottia wrote:
Ifreann wrote:XKCD: "It's a bit silly to say that immigrants coming to America should learn English"
OP: "So you're saying that all white people should leave all former colonies?"

Ceterum censeo it's about time we removed Germans from places like Colonia Agrippina and sent them back to Sarmatia or Scania or whatever.

Pffft Trojan wannabes. :P
Last edited by Diarcesia on Sat Jun 05, 2021 8:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Borderlands of Rojava
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Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Sat Jun 05, 2021 8:25 am

Diarcesia wrote:
Czechostan wrote: :lol: This is golden.

From now on, research can only be conducted by people with WASP-y names.

John Smith, James Cook, Jehoshaphat Miller, Boaty McBoatface.


Tfw a study on racism is conducted and it gets discarded cause one of the 10 researchers is named Xi Lingbao.
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Adamede
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Postby Adamede » Sat Jun 05, 2021 10:45 am

Brittany Normandy Aquitaine wrote:Conquest is different from immigration.

Conquest is the invasion and taking of land, and naturally a nation will put their people in that land. That is what every nation in history has done to conquered land.

Immigration is the migration to new lands. Naturally, to understand the people around you in your new nation, you will learn the new language and become one with their culture.

The Americans conquered the American Indians.
Mexicans are immigrating into the USA (it has become somewhat of an invasion without troops with hispanic majority towns and cities near the southern border on the USA side now and because of mass-immigration)

Lol

Most of those towns have always been majority Hispanic.

Regardless the vast majority of immigrants to the United States integrate into American culture. It’s not an “invasion”.
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Borderlands of Rojava
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Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:31 am

Adamede wrote:
Brittany Normandy Aquitaine wrote:Conquest is different from immigration.

Conquest is the invasion and taking of land, and naturally a nation will put their people in that land. That is what every nation in history has done to conquered land.

Immigration is the migration to new lands. Naturally, to understand the people around you in your new nation, you will learn the new language and become one with their culture.

The Americans conquered the American Indians.
Mexicans are immigrating into the USA (it has become somewhat of an invasion without troops with hispanic majority towns and cities near the southern border on the USA side now and because of mass-immigration)

Lol

Most of those towns have always been majority Hispanic.

Regardless the vast majority of immigrants to the United States integrate into American culture. It’s not an “invasion”.


If anything the reason those towns are hispanic is due to an invasion but of the United States. They didn't move here, America came in with the army and snatched the land up from Mexico.
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Islamic Holy Sites
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Postby Islamic Holy Sites » Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:49 am

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
Adamede wrote:Lol

Most of those towns have always been majority Hispanic.

Regardless the vast majority of immigrants to the United States integrate into American culture. It’s not an “invasion”.


If anything the reason those towns are hispanic is due to an invasion but of the United States. They didn't move here, America came in with the army and snatched the land up from Mexico.

US: Takes lands from Hispanics.
US: Why are there so many Hispanics here?
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Borderlands of Rojava
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Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:51 am

Islamic Holy Sites wrote:
Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
If anything the reason those towns are hispanic is due to an invasion but of the United States. They didn't move here, America came in with the army and snatched the land up from Mexico.

US: Takes lands from Hispanics.
US: Why are there so many Hispanics here?


America: "We're being invaded."

Also America: literally took the land with an army.
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"The devil is out there. Hiding behind every corner and in every nook and cranny. In all of the dives, all over the city. Before you lays an entire world of enemies, and at day's end when the chips are down, we're a society of strangers. You cant walk by someone on the street anymore without crossing the road to get away from their stare. Welcome to the Twilight Zone. The land of plague and shadow. Nothing innocent survives this world. If it can't corrupt you, it'll kill you."

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Islamic Holy Sites
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Postby Islamic Holy Sites » Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:53 am

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
Islamic Holy Sites wrote:US: Takes lands from Hispanics.
US: Why are there so many Hispanics here?


America: "We're being invaded."

Also America: literally took the land with an army.

Last one:

US: Invades Mexico.
US: Mexico’s invading us!
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Nevertopia
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Postby Nevertopia » Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:57 am

GuessTheAltAccount wrote:(Image)

I've never really been sure what to make of immigration.

On the one hand, it sounds pretty mutual, in and of itself, for young immigrants to come to the first world, and make more money than they're used to by working to support the older retirees instead of counting on having kids who'd cost $250000 each to raise.

On the other hand, reasoning like that mentioned in the webcomic has often struck me as flawed, and in turn, as reflecting badly on pro-immigration people as a whole.

A: Doesn't this actually make immigration look like a bad thing? It cites a historical example of the migrants destroying the pre-existing cultures of the places to which they immigrated, bringing new diseases with them when they did. Perhaps the idea is that we as their descendants have no right to whine about the same thing happening to us (though quite frankly we didn't choose to be born as the descendants of imperialists) but why would people who supposedly like immigration emphasize its ill effects?

B: If white people all up and left Australia, New Zealand, Canada, the USA, etc... en masse, would there really be any going back to the way things used to be, or have the changes made been too irreversible anyway?

C: What about places to which white people actually are native, like Europe? Is nativism okay there? If so, why is it condemned there as well, and if not, why does anyone feel the need to invoke "white people aren't native to the countries they colonized" reasoning if that isn't really what they have a problem with in the first place?


the problem with your question here is the topic is predicated on the genocide acted upon by colonizers. Its one thing for immigration to enter a country and have culture change as a result, its another for a hostile military force to forcefully annex your land. They might've immigrated from elsewhere but they were here first as a people who laid claim.
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Ethel mermania
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Postby Ethel mermania » Sat Jun 05, 2021 12:45 pm

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
Islamic Holy Sites wrote:US: Takes lands from Hispanics.
US: Why are there so many Hispanics here?


America: "We're being invaded."

Also America: literally took the land with an army.


Well we took Mexico city with the army. New Mexico was part of the ransom. So now those are our Mexicans, Not their old mexicans,.... I have a headache I need to sit down.
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Atheris
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Postby Atheris » Sat Jun 05, 2021 12:51 pm

Ethel mermania wrote:
Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
America: "We're being invaded."

Also America: literally took the land with an army.


Well we took Mexico city with the army. New Mexico was part of the ransom. So now those are our Mexicans, Not their old mexicans,.... I have a headache I need to sit down.

Which live in New Mexico, which Mexico is named after... ish.
Last edited by Atheris on Sat Jun 05, 2021 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Mushet
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Postby Mushet » Sat Jun 05, 2021 12:53 pm

GuessTheAltAccount wrote:A: Doesn't this actually make immigration look like a bad thing? It cites a historical example of the migrants destroying the pre-existing cultures of the places to which they immigrated, bringing new diseases with them when they did. Perhaps the idea is that we as their descendants have no right to whine about the same thing happening to us (though quite frankly we didn't choose to be born as the descendants of imperialists) but why would people who supposedly like immigration emphasize its ill effects?


That wasn't immigration, that was invasion, that was colonization, they're different.
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Postby The Blaatschapen » Sat Jun 05, 2021 1:12 pm

Ethel mermania wrote:
Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
America: "We're being invaded."

Also America: literally took the land with an army.


Well we took Mexico city with the army. New Mexico was part of the ransom. So now those are our Mexicans, Not their old mexicans,.... I have a headache I need to sit down.


Did this break you? It sounds like you mexican't anymore.
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Borderlands of Rojava
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Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Sat Jun 05, 2021 1:17 pm

We live in a world where white supremacists compare the full scale destruction of the native Americans to Algerians moving to France.
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Rusozak
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Postby Rusozak » Sat Jun 05, 2021 1:36 pm

Thousands of years in the future

"Research into ancient history shows how early humans of old Earth used to fight each other over appearance and what part of the planet their genetic lineage was originally located. These primitive cultures did not identify with humanity, but actually had ideas of groupings based around what they called 'race' with which they identified."
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Atheris
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Postby Atheris » Sat Jun 05, 2021 1:49 pm

Rusozak wrote:Thousands of years in the future

"Research into ancient history shows how early humans of old Earth used to fight each other over appearance and what part of the planet their genetic lineage was originally located. These primitive cultures did not identify with humanity, but actually had ideas of groupings based around what they called 'race' with which they identified."

You say that like race and nationality and ethnicity will magically go away.
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Kilobugya
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Postby Kilobugya » Sat Jun 05, 2021 1:53 pm

Atheris wrote:
Rusozak wrote:Thousands of years in the future

"Research into ancient history shows how early humans of old Earth used to fight each other over appearance and what part of the planet their genetic lineage was originally located. These primitive cultures did not identify with humanity, but actually had ideas of groupings based around what they called 'race' with which they identified."

You say that like race and nationality and ethnicity will magically go away.


Magically ? No. Go away in the future ? Probably, yes. Like here in France we used to have "racism" and discrimination against people from some regions (Bretagne, Auvergne, ...) but nowadays it seems unthinkable. With greater travel and communication capabilities, with ever more connected world economy, with common threats like pandemics and climate change in front us, the material forces push towards more unification of the human race, and it'll either happen or we'll die, as a technology advanced race, in our petty fights over skin color, religion and place of birth.
Last edited by Kilobugya on Sat Jun 05, 2021 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Borderlands of Rojava
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Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Sat Jun 05, 2021 1:55 pm

Atheris wrote:
Rusozak wrote:Thousands of years in the future

"Research into ancient history shows how early humans of old Earth used to fight each other over appearance and what part of the planet their genetic lineage was originally located. These primitive cultures did not identify with humanity, but actually had ideas of groupings based around what they called 'race' with which they identified."

You say that like race and nationality and ethnicity will magically go away.


Race as a concept probably will go away. It didn't exist for most of human history.
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Ethel mermania
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Postby Ethel mermania » Sat Jun 05, 2021 4:21 pm

The Blaatschapen wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:
Well we took Mexico city with the army. New Mexico was part of the ransom. So now those are our Mexicans, Not their old mexicans,.... I have a headache I need to sit down.


Did this break you? It sounds like you mexican't anymore.

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Rusozak
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Postby Rusozak » Sat Jun 05, 2021 6:14 pm

Atheris wrote:
Rusozak wrote:Thousands of years in the future

"Research into ancient history shows how early humans of old Earth used to fight each other over appearance and what part of the planet their genetic lineage was originally located. These primitive cultures did not identify with humanity, but actually had ideas of groupings based around what they called 'race' with which they identified."

You say that like race and nationality and ethnicity will magically go away.


Not overnight no. But eventually? They're relatively recent concepts born out of nationalism and pseudo-science. I like to think future humans will look on these labels we obsess with organizing everyone under as historical oddities that came and went.
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Diarcesia
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Diarcesia » Sat Jun 05, 2021 6:17 pm

Rusozak wrote:
Atheris wrote:You say that like race and nationality and ethnicity will magically go away.


Not overnight no. But eventually? They're relatively recent concepts born out of nationalism and pseudo-science. I like to think future humans will look on these labels we obsess with organizing everyone under as historical oddities that came and went.

It will take intelligent aliens equally powerful as humans before the latter will look past race, nationality, and ethnicity.

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