Nativism vs. "your ancestors weren't from here either"

[Koletsia]

(Copy pasted some sources from one of my special super secret source docs; sorry if it comes off a bit choppy.)

>https://sci-hub.do/10.1146/annurev-soc-071913-043309
Enormous meta-analysis of 90 cross-sectional studies analyzing relationship between diversity & social cohesion.
Vast majority of studies on the subject fail to prove the relationship between two variables.
In fact, study finds positive relationship between inter-ethnic contact & trust in ethnically heterogeneous communities.
Only contrary data shows small-scale (intra-neighborhood) trust suffers with ethnic heterogeneity in some circumstances, and even then only in America.
Plurality of data does not support - and largely contradicts - assertion that diversity hurts social cohesion.

Sociology, what a joke. All western European countries right now are struggling to figure out what they can do about the skyrocketing increase of ethnic ghettos in their cities. These ghettos are the result of "birds flocking together" because that's what humans naturally do. They are the focal points of the most crime in every western country because they are home to people originally from savage cultures where savagery is totally normal and part of everyday life. Why is it that it is acceptable for every single non-western nation to demand immigrants integrate or even follow the major religion yet western nations must accept the whole world without demanding anything at all? Isn't it strange? Do the people who write such tripe not believe in democracy? If they did, then they wouldn't be churning out such anti-democratic garbage that goes against the daily experiences of regular people who can no longer even leave their homes without locking everything up and turning on the security system in fear of some Ali or Muhammad breaking in and taking everything that isn't bolted to the ground. But then again, to these people that's a result of "racism", right? That's because the host nation didn't give enough free shit to these people (which is never enough of course) and we must do even more to accommodate them. Then again, as most of the slime who come up with this trash have never even had regular jobs so perhaps they cannot understand what it is to pay enormous taxes that go to supporting these parasites while the country continues to collapse.

What can account for the remarkable distinction between the United States on the one hand and other (Western) countries—including neighboring Canada—on the other? In the United States, the public reacts most negatively to diversity. Although the United States is a traditional immigration country,no similar consistent link is observed in other traditional countries of immigration such as Australia, Canada, and New Zealand (cf.Hagendoorn 2009). Thus, we have little reason to expect that recent migration countries, such as those in Europe, will necessarily experience a similar setback in social cohesion at some point in the future.

This is ludicrous. All you have to do is actually live in any of these countries and see with your own eyes, speak with actual residents. In Australia, New Zealand and every single European country, the common view of actual working people (not insular tertiary students or academics who live in their own little bubbles) is that so-called "diversity" is a problem that needs to be solved. If you've lived in any other country in a regular neighbourhood for a significant amount of time, you'd know this. Even saviour of the sand people Merkel has admitted how bad multiculti has been for Germany. There is simply no escaping this. Your academics cannot fight against reality.

>https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/laibson/files/measuring_trust.pdf
Study which tested around 200 students in a trust based experiment and compared results from diverse groups and homogenous groups.
Finds no statistically significant negative relationship between diversity and social cohesion.

So students who have not had any real experience in the world are a good indicator of the success of multiculti? Why not survey actual working people who live and work among the 3rd world imports instead of such a selective sample? Or even the families of people whose children were groomed, raped and murdered by people who come from cultures where rape and honour killings are completely normal? Couldn't ever do that, could you? It would go against the narrative that you and your ilk are trying to push in order to destroy everything that has been achieved by the West. You people just seethe at the fact that average people do not want this for their countries. The tide is turning and people are increasingly voting for those who say "no more". Then again, in your fantasy kookooland, the increasing masses of people who vote against furthering this death cult are just too stupid to understand "the studies" and are infected with mind viruses, incapable of accepting "the science".

>https://psycnet.apa.org/buy/2018-13651-001
Study examining a range of experiments meant to gauge the relationship between diversity and social cohesion.
Study finds all of the experiments found a positive relationship between diversity and social cohesion.
Proposed mechanism is that diversity causes people to identify more broadly with humanity, increasing sociability.

Can't even read it without paying. Did you? Or did you just type in your argument into a websearch along with "journal" or "studies" and then paste the articles without having read them? If not, then could you actually copy+paste the actual article? Also:

By Nai, Jared,Narayanan, Jayanth,Hernandez, Ivan,Savani, Krishna

Totally unbiased bunch of people. Regardless, if you've studied at university, you will very well know that a thesis proposal examining the damaging impacts of multiculturalism on social cohesion and identity will get you a one way ticket to the faculty office for a "discussion". Universities (at least humanities faculties) have long since been hijacked by certain interests who do not care about the lives of regular blue collar people except to demonise them as ignorant fools. For people who speak against hierarchy/class society, you people surely love looking down on others, don't you?

[Ayytaly]

(Copy pasted some sources from one of my special super secret source docs; sorry if it comes off a bit choppy.)

>https://sci-hub.do/10.1146/annurev-soc-071913-043309
Enormous meta-analysis of 90 cross-sectional studies analyzing relationship between diversity & social cohesion.
Vast majority of studies on the subject fail to prove the relationship between two variables.
In fact, study finds positive relationship between inter-ethnic contact & trust in ethnically heterogeneous communities.
Only contrary data shows small-scale (intra-neighborhood) trust suffers with ethnic heterogeneity in some circumstances, and even then only in America.
Plurality of data does not support - and largely contradicts - assertion that diversity hurts social cohesion.

Sociology, what a joke. All western European countries right now are struggling to figure out what they can do about the skyrocketing increase of ethnic ghettos in their cities. These ghettos are the result of "birds flocking together" because that's what humans naturally do. They are the focal points of the most crime in every western country because they are home to people originally from savage cultures where savagery is totally normal and part of everyday life. Why is it that it is acceptable for every single non-western nation to demand immigrants integrate or even follow the major religion yet western nations must accept the whole world without demanding anything at all? Isn't it strange? Do the people who write such tripe not believe in democracy? If they did, then they wouldn't be churning out such anti-democratic garbage that goes against the daily experiences of regular people who can no longer even leave their homes without locking everything up and turning on the security system in fear of some Ali or Muhammad breaking in and taking everything that isn't bolted to the ground. But then again, to these people that's a result of "racism", right? That's because the host nation didn't give enough free shit to these people (which is never enough of course) and we must do even more to accommodate them. Then again, as most of the slime who come up with this trash have never even had regular jobs so perhaps they cannot understand what it is to pay enormous taxes that go to supporting these parasites while the country continues to collapse.

What can account for the remarkable distinction between the United States on the one hand and other (Western) countries—including neighboring Canada—on the other? In the United States, the public reacts most negatively to diversity. Although the United States is a traditional immigration country,no similar consistent link is observed in other traditional countries of immigration such as Australia, Canada, and New Zealand (cf.Hagendoorn 2009). Thus, we have little reason to expect that recent migration countries, such as those in Europe, will necessarily experience a similar setback in social cohesion at some point in the future.

This is ludicrous. All you have to do is actually live in any of these countries and see with your own eyes, speak with actual residents. In Australia, New Zealand and every single European country, the common view of actual working people (not insular tertiary students or academics who live in their own little bubbles) is that so-called "diversity" is a problem that needs to be solved. If you've lived in any other country in a regular neighbourhood for a significant amount of time, you'd know this. Even saviour of the sand people Merkel has admitted how bad multiculti has been for Germany. There is simply no escaping this. Your academics cannot fight against reality.

>https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/laibson/files/measuring_trust.pdf
Study which tested around 200 students in a trust based experiment and compared results from diverse groups and homogenous groups.
Finds no statistically significant negative relationship between diversity and social cohesion.

So students who have not had any real experience in the world are a good indicator of the success of multiculti? Why not survey actual working people who live and work among the 3rd world imports instead of such a selective sample? Or even the families of people whose children were groomed, raped and murdered by people who come from cultures where rape and honour killings are completely normal? Couldn't ever do that, could you? It would go against the narrative that you and your ilk are trying to push in order to destroy everything that has been achieved by the West. You people just seethe at the fact that average people do not want this for their countries. The tide is turning and people are increasingly voting for those who say "no more". Then again, in your fantasy kookooland, the increasing masses of people who vote against furthering this death cult are just too stupid to understand "the studies" and are infected with mind viruses, incapable of accepting "the science".

>https://psycnet.apa.org/buy/2018-13651-001
Study examining a range of experiments meant to gauge the relationship between diversity and social cohesion.
Study finds all of the experiments found a positive relationship between diversity and social cohesion.
Proposed mechanism is that diversity causes people to identify more broadly with humanity, increasing sociability.

Can't even read it without paying. Did you? Or did you just type in your argument into a websearch along with "journal" or "studies" and then paste the articles without having read them? If not, then could you actually copy+paste the actual article? Also:

By Nai, Jared,Narayanan, Jayanth,Hernandez, Ivan,Savani, Krishna

Totally unbiased bunch of people. Regardless, if you've studied at university, you will very well know that a thesis proposal examining the damaging impacts of multiculturalism on social cohesion and identity will get you a one way ticket to the faculty office for a "discussion". Universities (at least humanities faculties) have long since been hijacked by certain interests who do not care about the lives of regular blue collar people except to demonise them as ignorant fools. For people who speak against hierarchy/class society, you people surely love looking down on others, don't you?

Pretty sure Western nations were founded by savages (see: Germanics)

[Neanderthaland]

Pretty sure Western nations were founded by savages (see: Germanics)

At least they wore pants. Unlike those Roman weirdos.

[Brittany Normandy Aquitaine]

Conquest is different from immigration.

Conquest is the invasion and taking of land, and naturally a nation will put their people in that land. That is what every nation in history has done to conquered land.

Immigration is the migration to new lands. Naturally, to understand the people around you in your new nation, you will learn the new language and become one with their culture.

The Americans conquered the American Indians.
Mexicans are immigrating into the USA (it has become somewhat of an invasion without troops with hispanic majority towns and cities near the southern border on the USA side now and because of mass-immigration)

[Czechostan]

By Nai, Jared,Narayanan, Jayanth,Hernandez, Ivan,Savani, Krishna

Totally unbiased bunch of people.

This is golden.

From now on, research can only be conducted by people with WASP-y names.

[Ayytaly]

Conquest is different from immigration.

Conquest is the invasion and taking of land, and naturally a nation will put their people in that land. That is what every nation in history has done to conquered land.

Immigration is the migration to new lands. Naturally, to understand the people around you in your new nation, you will learn the new language and become one with their culture.

The Americans conquered the American Indians.
Mexicans are immigrating into the USA (it has become somewhat of an invasion without troops with hispanic majority towns and cities near the southern border on the USA side now and because of mass-immigration)

Yet Mexican culture is strongly rooted in Indigenous American ones. That makes them far more American than the Anglo-"American" tripe being served for centuries.

Also lol, calling Europeans "Americans" without any sort of prefix or hyphenation. Typical of WASPs to appropriate a term.

[Picairn]

Sociology, what a joke.

The hallmark of anti-intellectualism, folks.

All western European countries right now are struggling to figure out what they can do about the skyrocketing increase of ethnic ghettos in their cities. These ghettos are the result of "birds flocking together" because that's what humans naturally do.

Citation needed. In Denmark, for example, immigrants flock to low-income housing areas because the government engaged in a series of legal discrimination policies. viewtopic.php?p=38469022#p38469022

They are the focal points of the most crime in every western country because they are home to people originally from savage cultures where savagery is totally normal and part of everyday life.

I love the smell of racism after lunch.

Why is it that it is acceptable for every single non-western nation to demand immigrants integrate or even follow the major religion yet western nations must accept the whole world without demanding anything at all?

Literally wrong. India has over two thousand ethnic groups with enough religious, cultural, linguistic and genetic diversity to give the whole continent of Africa a run for its money.

White supremacists can never come up with new original arguments, it seems.

Isn't it strange? Do the people who write such tripe not believe in democracy? If they did, then they wouldn't be churning out such anti-democratic garbage that goes against the daily experiences of regular people who can no longer even leave their homes without locking everything up and turning on the security system in fear of some Ali or Muhammad breaking in and taking everything that isn't bolted to the ground.

Which is more anti-democratic, welcoming refugees who are fleeing wars and disasters into the country or demanding the police state to forcibly assimilate them using authoritarian tactics? Isn't it strange? Right wingers who are distrustful of government now demand government to stomp on minorities' civil rights.

But then again, to these people that's a result of "racism", right? That's because the host nation didn't give enough free shit to these people (which is never enough of course) and we must do even more to accommodate them.

Indeed, it is disgraceful for a government to discriminate against minorities and refugees.

Then again, as most of the slime who come up with this trash have never even had regular jobs so perhaps they cannot understand what it is to pay enormous taxes that go to supporting these parasites while the country continues to collapse.

The "slime" are the scientists who have contributed to our understanding of the world and the universe? Who have pioneered technological innovations throughout centuries? Who have briefed and informed our leaders to make the wise choice in crucial decisions? Who have created efficient machinery that gave the average worker an easier life?

What have you contributed to the scientific progress?

This is ludicrous. All you have to do is actually live in any of these countries and see with your own eyes, speak with actual residents.

Residents that support your racism and hatred? Do you know that your biased anecdotal evidence does not refute statistical evidence?

In Australia, New Zealand and every single European country, the common view of actual working people (not insular tertiary students or academics who live in their own little bubbles) is that so-called "diversity" is a problem that needs to be solved.

Have you conducted a non-biased poll? Interview a random sample of 1,000 people across the country? Commissioned a statistical study? No? Then don't make up BS.

If you've lived in any other country in a regular neighbourhood for a significant amount of time, you'd know this. Even saviour of the sand people Merkel has admitted how bad multiculti has been for Germany. There is simply no escaping this. Your academics cannot fight against reality.

"AcAdEmIcS bAd!!!" Said the guy who puts forward his personal racism as evidence.

So students who have not had any real experience in the world are a good indicator of the success of multiculti?

Students in the Western world study in university and colleges which are some of the most diverse environments, hosting international students as well as students of different race and background, a perfect place to experience diversity. It's clear that you have no clue of the university life.

Why not survey actual working people who live and work among the 3rd world imports instead of such a selective sample?

Students do study and interact with international students from the 3rd world. Again, you are ignorant of the university environment.

Or even the families of people whose children were groomed, raped and murdered by people who come from cultures where rape and honour killings are completely normal? Couldn't ever do that, could you?

A biased sample is not a good sample. Interactions with different people produce different outcomes. Study statistics before making such an idiotic statement.

It would go against the narrative that you and your ilk are trying to push in order to destroy everything that has been achieved by the West.

Ah yes, because it's the left wing who is trying to enact authoritarian policies and undermine democracy, a pinnacle of Western civilization. Not.

You people just seethe at the fact that average people do not want this for their countries.

You don't speak for the average person. For the racists, perhaps.

The tide is turning and people are increasingly voting for those who say "no more". Then again, in your fantasy kookooland, the increasing masses of people who vote against furthering this death cult are just too stupid to understand "the studies" and are infected with mind viruses, incapable of accepting "the science".

"My gut feelings over science!!!"

Can't even read it without paying. Did you? Or did you just type in your argument into a websearch along with "journal" or "studies" and then paste the articles without having read them? If not, then could you actually copy+paste the actual article?

Why, can't criticize the study's arguments so you must go for ad hominems?

Totally unbiased bunch of people.

Yeah, totally. You got a problem with their names? Is that your racism speaking out again?

Regardless, if you've studied at university, you will very well know that a thesis proposal examining the damaging impacts of multiculturalism on social cohesion and identity will get you a one way ticket to the faculty office for a "discussion".

Any thesis that mirrors your racist screed certainly deserves that ticket.

Universities (at least humanities faculties) have long since been hijacked by certain interests who do not care about the lives of regular blue collar people except to demonise them as ignorant fools. For people who speak against hierarchy/class society, you people surely love looking down on others, don't you?

This isn't the gotcha you think.

[Ayytaly]

Sociology, what a joke.

The hallmark of anti-intellectualism, folks.

All western European countries right now are struggling to figure out what they can do about the skyrocketing increase of ethnic ghettos in their cities. These ghettos are the result of "birds flocking together" because that's what humans naturally do.

Citation needed. In Denmark, for example, immigrants flock to low-income housing areas because the government engaged in a series of legal discrimination policies. viewtopic.php?p=38469022#p38469022

They are the focal points of the most crime in every western country because they are home to people originally from savage cultures where savagery is totally normal and part of everyday life.

I love the smell of racism after lunch.

Why is it that it is acceptable for every single non-western nation to demand immigrants integrate or even follow the major religion yet western nations must accept the whole world without demanding anything at all?

Literally wrong. India has over two thousand ethnic groups with enough religious, cultural, linguistic and genetic diversity to give the whole continent of Africa a run for its money.

White supremacists can never come up with new original arguments, it seems.

Isn't it strange? Do the people who write such tripe not believe in democracy? If they did, then they wouldn't be churning out such anti-democratic garbage that goes against the daily experiences of regular people who can no longer even leave their homes without locking everything up and turning on the security system in fear of some Ali or Muhammad breaking in and taking everything that isn't bolted to the ground.

Which is more anti-democratic, welcoming refugees who are fleeing wars and disasters into the country or demanding the police state to forcibly assimilate them using authoritarian tactics? Isn't it strange? Right wingers who are distrustful of government now demand government to stomp on minorities' civil rights.

But then again, to these people that's a result of "racism", right? That's because the host nation didn't give enough free shit to these people (which is never enough of course) and we must do even more to accommodate them.

Indeed, it is disgraceful for a government to discriminate against minorities and refugees.

Then again, as most of the slime who come up with this trash have never even had regular jobs so perhaps they cannot understand what it is to pay enormous taxes that go to supporting these parasites while the country continues to collapse.

The "slime" are the scientists who have contributed to our understanding of the world and the universe? Who have pioneered technological innovations throughout centuries? Who have briefed and informed our leaders to make the wise choice in crucial decisions? Who have created efficient machinery that gave the average worker an easier life?

What have you contributed to the scientific progress?

This is ludicrous. All you have to do is actually live in any of these countries and see with your own eyes, speak with actual residents.

Residents that support your racism and hatred? Do you know that your biased anecdotal evidence does not refute statistical evidence?

In Australia, New Zealand and every single European country, the common view of actual working people (not insular tertiary students or academics who live in their own little bubbles) is that so-called "diversity" is a problem that needs to be solved.

Have you conducted a non-biased poll? Interview a random sample of 1,000 people across the country? Commissioned a statistical study? No? Then don't make up BS.

If you've lived in any other country in a regular neighbourhood for a significant amount of time, you'd know this. Even saviour of the sand people Merkel has admitted how bad multiculti has been for Germany. There is simply no escaping this. Your academics cannot fight against reality.

"AcAdEmIcS bAd!!!" Said the guy who puts forward his personal racism as evidence.

So students who have not had any real experience in the world are a good indicator of the success of multiculti?

Students in the Western world study in university and colleges which are some of the most diverse environments, hosting international students as well as students of different race and background, a perfect place to experience diversity. It's clear that you have no clue of the university life.

Why not survey actual working people who live and work among the 3rd world imports instead of such a selective sample?

Students do study and interact with international students from the 3rd world. Again, you are ignorant of the university environment.

Or even the families of people whose children were groomed, raped and murdered by people who come from cultures where rape and honour killings are completely normal? Couldn't ever do that, could you?

A biased sample is not a good sample. Interactions with different people produce different outcomes. Study statistics before making such an idiotic statement.

It would go against the narrative that you and your ilk are trying to push in order to destroy everything that has been achieved by the West.

Ah yes, because it's the left wing who is trying to enact authoritarian policies and undermine democracy, a pinnacle of Western civilization. Not.

You people just seethe at the fact that average people do not want this for their countries.

You don't speak for the average person. For the racists, perhaps.

The tide is turning and people are increasingly voting for those who say "no more". Then again, in your fantasy kookooland, the increasing masses of people who vote against furthering this death cult are just too stupid to understand "the studies" and are infected with mind viruses, incapable of accepting "the science".

"My gut feelings over science!!!"

Can't even read it without paying. Did you? Or did you just type in your argument into a websearch along with "journal" or "studies" and then paste the articles without having read them? If not, then could you actually copy+paste the actual article?

Why, can't criticize the study's arguments so you must go for ad hominems?

Totally unbiased bunch of people.

Yeah, totally. You got a problem with their names? Is that your racism speaking out again?

Regardless, if you've studied at university, you will very well know that a thesis proposal examining the damaging impacts of multiculturalism on social cohesion and identity will get you a one way ticket to the faculty office for a "discussion".

Any thesis that mirrors your racist screed certainly deserves that ticket.

Universities (at least humanities faculties) have long since been hijacked by certain interests who do not care about the lives of regular blue collar people except to demonise them as ignorant fools. For people who speak against hierarchy/class society, you people surely love looking down on others, don't you?

This isn't the gotcha you think.

At ths point I expect him to soon post the Happy Merchant pic with the text "DESTROYER OF WESTERN CIVILIZATION" next to it.

[Picairn]

At ths point I expect him to soon post the Happy Merchant pic with the text "DESTROYER OF WESTERN CIVILIZATION" next to it.

True, probably as soon as I dealt with all of his unoriginal arguments.

It's always the same ones:

1. Academics bad, out-of-touch, in their bubbles.
2. Students are stupid SJWs who don't know anything.
3. Only the average workers know the situation (Until they contradict the white supremacists' narrative, then they become traitors).

[Koletsia]

Sociology, what a joke. All western European countries right now are struggling to figure out what they can do about the skyrocketing increase of ethnic ghettos in their cities. These ghettos are the result of "birds flocking together" because that's what humans naturally do. They are the focal points of the most crime in every western country because they are home to people originally from savage cultures where savagery is totally normal and part of everyday life. Why is it that it is acceptable for every single non-western nation to demand immigrants integrate or even follow the major religion yet western nations must accept the whole world without demanding anything at all? Isn't it strange? Do the people who write such tripe not believe in democracy? If they did, then they wouldn't be churning out such anti-democratic garbage that goes against the daily experiences of regular people who can no longer even leave their homes without locking everything up and turning on the security system in fear of some Ali or Muhammad breaking in and taking everything that isn't bolted to the ground. But then again, to these people that's a result of "racism", right? That's because the host nation didn't give enough free shit to these people (which is never enough of course) and we must do even more to accommodate them. Then again, as most of the slime who come up with this trash have never even had regular jobs so perhaps they cannot understand what it is to pay enormous taxes that go to supporting these parasites while the country continues to collapse.

None of this applies to historical migration of Jews of course. Expecting Jews to obey the same moral standards they demand of others, would be racist, right?

What are you talking about? The Jewish people have almost always integrated into nations much more successfully than basically any other group. That's why we have so many different groups of Jewish people around the world with different cultures and ways of life. There is more diversity among members of the Jewish people than any other group for this reason, and it is also the reason the idea of a single "Jewish (biological) race" is such a load of shit.

[Brittany Normandy Aquitaine]

Conquest is different from immigration.

Conquest is the invasion and taking of land, and naturally a nation will put their people in that land. That is what every nation in history has done to conquered land.

Immigration is the migration to new lands. Naturally, to understand the people around you in your new nation, you will learn the new language and become one with their culture.

The Americans conquered the American Indians.
Mexicans are immigrating into the USA (it has become somewhat of an invasion without troops with hispanic majority towns and cities near the southern border on the USA side now and because of mass-immigration)

Yet Mexican culture is strongly rooted in Indigenous American ones. That makes them far more American than the Anglo-"American" tripe being served for centuries.

Also lol, calling Europeans "Americans" without any sort of prefix or hyphenation. Typical of WASPs to appropriate a term.

low iq take on the situation

Who cares about the culture of Indian Americans in the modern day. The culture and nation of the Romans was wiped out through barbarian invasions. The Steppe tribes such as Bulgars and Hungarians displaced people when they invaded Eastern Europe. History is full of conquests and forgetting. Do we celebrate and honor the culture of Mesopotamia or the Indus River Valley civilization? No. They were wiped out through means such as famine, instability, or internal conflict. With the rise in nations, conquest has become the main form of the wiping out of nations and the forgetting of their cultures. The Indian Americans who were conquered by European settlers are no different. Just because they're a different race makes it no different.

Immigration is a form of migration but through legal processes to become a citizen of a country. In order to properly become one with that nation, and to live there, you must learn the language and assimilate or you will not thrive. Unfortunately, there have been too many immigrants let into Europe and America, and now we face the consequences throughout the next 50-100 years.

[Ayytaly]

Yet Mexican culture is strongly rooted in Indigenous American ones. That makes them far more American than the Anglo-"American" tripe being served for centuries.

Also lol, calling Europeans "Americans" without any sort of prefix or hyphenation. Typical of WASPs to appropriate a term.

low iq take on the situation

Who cares about the culture of Indian Americans in the modern day. The culture and nation of the Romans was wiped out through barbarian invasions. The Steppe tribes such as Bulgars and Hungarians displaced people when they invaded Eastern Europe. History is full of conquests and forgetting. Do we celebrate and honor the culture of Mesopotamia or the Indus River Valley civilization? No. They were wiped out through means such as famine, instability, or internal conflict. With the rise in nations, conquest has become the main form of the wiping out of nations and the forgetting of their cultures. The Indian Americans who were conquered by European settlers are no different. Just because they're a different race makes it no different.

Immigration is a form of migration but through legal processes to become a citizen of a country. In order to properly become one with that nation, and to live there, you must learn the language and assimilate or you will not thrive. Unfortunately, there have been too many immigrants let into Europe and America, and now we face the consequences throughout the next 50-100 years.

By 2071 Eurabia shall be reality? Huzzah, no more French lessons!

[Kowani]

Yet Mexican culture is strongly rooted in Indigenous American ones. That makes them far more American than the Anglo-"American" tripe being served for centuries.

Also lol, calling Europeans "Americans" without any sort of prefix or hyphenation. Typical of WASPs to appropriate a term.

low iq take on the situation

Who cares about the culture of Indian Americans in the modern day. The culture and nation of the Romans was wiped out through barbarian invasions. The Steppe tribes such as Bulgars and Hungarians displaced people when they invaded Eastern Europe. History is full of conquests and forgetting. Do we celebrate and honor the culture of Mesopotamia or the Indus River Valley civilization?

perhaps you should, you know, visit india or the middle east before making this claim
india is actually pretty particular about trying to draw a direct line from the IRV t modern day indian culture

No. They were wiped out through means such as famine, instability, or internal conflict. With the rise in nations, conquest has become the main form of the wiping out of nations and the forgetting of their cultures. The Indian Americans who were conquered by European settlers are no different. Just because they're a different race makes it no different.

except, you know
they're still here
this point makes no sense, it's based on factually incorrect information
for that matter, the point of "well that's just how it was lol" doesn't mean anything
we can-and should be better about these things than the past couple thousand years
whole "they tended to suck" thing going on

Immigration is a form of migration but through legal processes to become a citizen of a country. In order to properly become one with that nation, and to live there, you must learn the language and assimilate or you will not thrive. Unfortunately, there have been too many immigrants let into Europe and America, and now we face the consequences throughout the next 50-100 years.

yeah, that whole 5% of europe that's muslim immigrants is really a threat

[Koletsia]

It's been a very long time, compared to the "Alis and Muhammeds" you defamed. Given that, the onus is on you to show that current new migrants WON'T integrate just as well. If the same restrictions and compulsions (including on religion!!) you're prescribing now, had been applied then, Jews would have been left to rot in Europe.

WW2 was not fought "to save the Jews" or even to defeat fascism. These are historical revisionist views of the Second World War. It wasn't until quite late that the western powers, or even the USSR, were even aware of the extent of what the Nazis were actually doing. Your view seems to be along the lines of "all cultures are the same" and that people from every culture are equally able to integrate into a nation. It is a very infantile view of the world and shows you have probably not traveled very far. Cultures are complex, and it should not have to be said but some cultures are more different to others. If you have a situation in which people of vastly different worldviews are living in proximity, you will have conflict inevitably because the way people think things should be or issues be be dealt with, or even if something should be an issue at all, differs vastly I do not want my child to be afraid of being gay in certain neighbourhoods because do-gooders like you have been taught to hate the West and all its achievements and want it destroyed. I want my liberal progressive country to remain so and I do not want it to return to medieval times where my child fears being thrown off a building because that's the the shariah of Islamic teaching you think should be permitted to spread. I do not want my daughter to be afraid to walk out at night because some bunch of savages might gang rape her. Almost all gang rapes are by people from Muslim countries.

In fact, America was very unwelcoming to Jews even when Hitler was persecuting them. Then there was a big war happening and Jews (from occupied Nazi territory) had very little chance to leave. You'd do better to push a "Jews had it tough until everyone realized they were being genocided, so we should apply the same disincentives to refugees now" line, than "Jews integrate just fine, so they're an exception" which is pretty damn racist and overlooks the time that has passed.

Why do you continue to refer to the USA? I'm not American. I think it was wrong that they stopped accepting Jewish refugees as Jews in Europe were western people by any measure and I believe it is our duty to assist other culturally western people in trouble. That being said, they could not go anywhere as the Nazis steamrolled through Europe and would take any offer of refuge. My family was among them. I know this very well. But people who bypass country after country to reach France or the UK are NOT REFUGEES. They are economic migrants who will only settle for the richest countries for the largest social benefits. We have no duty to "help" them and they should be stopped before they can ever even reach Europe. Why don't you criticise Saudi Arabia, Qatar or the UAE for not accepting refugees? Very wealthy countries totally able to support refugees, much closer than any European country, yet of course, the narrative is always the same.

[Page]

I think the whole "next safe country" thing is bullshit. I hear lots of people saying "why did these refugees cross all these borders, why didn't the Rohingya go to India, why didn't the Syrians go to Jordan?

There is absolutely no rational reason why geographic proximity should determine where refugees should settle. Should someone go to the nearest doctor for every ailment? Should online dating websites prioritize setting people up with someone who lives on the same street? If you want to adopt a dog should you go for the very next one you pass by? Next safe country is bullshit. We have airplanes that can circumnavigate the planet in a matter of days.

Where refugees should go would be more rationally determined by which country they would best adapt to and a country's capacity for accepting refugees relative to wealth and population. And there are many wealthy and populous counties that have refused to step up and do their part, and that makes it more difficult for the countries that do.

[Outer Solar System]

Thread seems pretty pro open borders and immigration from my brief skimming of it, so I'll offer my own take as someone who is generally against mass immigration/open borders.

For me personally, I can't justify paying taxes and possibly fighting to defend people I have no cultural, linguistic, ethnic, historic, or religious, ties to. A Nation is a group of people who have all those things in common and work together to prosper. Modern States are no longer nations but a hodge lodge of random backgrounds that have nothing in common. I don't feel any connection to these strangers around me, I don't share cultural or political beliefs with them. I have zero connection to them. As someone living in the US I feel zero connection with the overwhelming majority of people here and thus I go out of my way to not pay any taxes or support the State any more than the bare minimum (and I hate even that) because I feel no need to support people I have nothing in common with.

Not only that, but I personally feel rootless and without any real social responsibility because my "fellow Americans" are literally random people. The Chinese or the Russians could invade tomorrow and I wouldn't lift a finger to stop them.

Mass Immigration erases regional/national identities and makes everyone rootless, faceless random people with no ties to anything. It used to be you could appreciate everyone's differences all over the world but now everything is just one homogenous blob and diversity only exsists on a superficial level.

As for the "economic benefits" if you aren't a billionaire you aren't seeing a dime of that. Instead you are competing against the entire world for jobs and pay and if you try and unionize or improve your lot in life you will simply get replaced.

Mass immigration is basically a Capitalist scheme to depress wages and increase the labor pool masquerading as a human rights issue and it baffles my mind how the Left can support it.

As a final note, I'm not against immigration itself, some degree of immigration is desirable and even nessescary, but unrestricted mass Immigration is a disaster.

[Kilobugya]

For me personally, I can't justify paying taxes and possibly fighting to defend people I have no cultural, linguistic, ethnic, historic, or religious, ties to. A Nation is a group of people who have all those things in common and work together to prosper.

Why do they need to have "those things" in common to work together and prosper ? Being humans, having the same base psychology, biology, and sharing the world isn't enough ? If not, being workers and being exploited by the bourgeoisie should matter more than any difference in skin color or irrational belief in supernatural super-beings.

Modern States are no longer nations but a hodge lodge of random backgrounds that have nothing in common. I don't feel any connection to these strangers around me, I don't share cultural or political beliefs with them.

I share more political belief with a fellow working class leftist from the other side of the world than with a reactionary bourgeois sharing my skin color.

I have zero connection to them. As someone living in the US I feel zero connection with the overwhelming majority of people here and thus I go out of my way to not pay any taxes or support the State any more than the bare minimum (and I hate even that) because I feel no need to support people I have nothing in common with.

Well, sorry to be blunt, but the problem is with you then rather than with immigration. Taxes and supporting the State allows for infrastructure, welfare, education, research, healthcare, ... which end up benefiting everyone. It's not a zero-sum game. Society nurtures individuals, individuals build society, it's a positive feedback loop, and you refusing to do your share ends up hurting everyone, you included. That has nothing to do with the place of birth of the neighbors.

Mass Immigration erases regional/national identities and makes everyone rootless, faceless random people with no ties to anything. It used to be you could appreciate everyone's differences all over the world but now everything is just one homogenous blob and diversity only exsists on a superficial level.

It's not "mass immigration" that erases "regional/national identities" but neoliberal globalization. Hollywood and McDonalds do more at making the world an uniform place than all of immigration ever did.

As for the "economic benefits" if you aren't a billionaire you aren't seeing a dime of that. Instead you are competing against the entire world for jobs and pay and if you try and unionize or improve your lot in life you will simply get replaced.

You definitely do. Immigrants tend to pay more in taxes that they gain, because they tend to be young adults, so you don't have the huge cost at raising them from infancy and yet they can help bridge the demographic gap of retiring baby-boomers. As for the downward pressure on wages and the issue with unionizing that's actually a problem of having immigrants being illegal, so without rights, and the solution to that is actually making them legal, bridging the gap. Millionaire and billionaire want lots of illegal immigrants, because they are easier to exploit, and usually oppose making them legal, because then they can unionize like nationals.

Mass immigration is basically a Capitalist scheme to depress wages and increase the labor pool masquerading as a human rights issue and it baffles my mind how the Left can support it.

No, that's what making immigration illegal does. And that's why the left should struggle to make immigration legal.

[-SARS-]

Conquest is different from immigration.

Conquest is the invasion and taking of land, and naturally a nation will put their people in that land. That is what every nation in history has done to conquered land.

Immigration is the migration to new lands. Naturally, to understand the people around you in your new nation, you will learn the new language and become one with their culture.

The Americans conquered the American Indians.
Mexicans are immigrating into the USA (it has become somewhat of an invasion without troops with hispanic majority towns and cities near the southern border on the USA side now and because of mass-immigration)

Yet Mexican culture is strongly rooted in Indigenous American ones. That makes them far more American than the Anglo-"American" tripe being served for centuries.

Also lol, calling Europeans "Americans" without any sort of prefix or hyphenation. Typical of WASPs to appropriate a term.

TBF, the term "American" was invented by the settlers. It is not what the indigenous people called themselves before the colonists moved in and invented "American" identity. You can't appropriate a word or a cultural identity that you invented.

[Picairn]

As someone living in the US I feel zero connection with the overwhelming majority of people here and thus I go out of my way to not pay any taxes or support the State any more than the bare minimum (and I hate even that) because I feel no need to support people I have nothing in common with.

Advocating tax evasion, everyone. Wow.

Mass immigration is basically a Capitalist scheme to depress wages and increase the labor pool masquerading as a human rights issue and it baffles my mind how the Left can support it.

Sigh. Immigration doesn't depress wages. You are repeating the Lump of Labor fallacy, whereas the number of jobs is fixed and therefore immigration depress wages due to supply and demand. It doesn't.

Some meta analyses.

“Economic Impacts of Immigration: A Survey”, by Sari Pekkala Kerr and William R. Kerr

* A comprehensive overview of papers on a large number of immigration-related topics. The section on wages reviews a large number of studies and meta-analyses, and finds that “the documented wage elasticities are small and clustered near zero”, meaning little or no wage impact from immigration.

“How to Measure Labour Market Effects of Immigration: A Review” by Liesbet Okkerse

* A meta-analysis of immigration studies. The studies find very small or no labor market impact.

“Joint impacts of immigration on wages and employment: review and meta-analysis”, by S. Longhi, P. Nijkamp, and J. Poot

* A meta-analysis of immigration studies. The studies find very small or no labor market impact.

“The labour market impact of immigration”, by Christian Dustmann, Albrecht Glitz and Tommaso Frattini

* This paper surveys the evidence on immigration to the UK, and finds very small labor market impacts if any.

[Outer Solar System]

Advocating tax evasion, everyone. Wow.

The US was literally founded by guys advocating for violent resistance to taxes.

[Kilobugya]

Advocating tax evasion, everyone. Wow.

The US was literally founded by guys advocating for violent resistance to taxes.

No, it wasn't "no taxation" but "no taxation without representation". They didn't oppose paying their taxes - they opposed paying their taxes without having a say in how those taxes are then used, which is a very different issue.

[Outer Solar System]

The US was literally founded by guys advocating for violent resistance to taxes.

No, it wasn't "no taxation" but "no taxation without representation". They didn't oppose paying their taxes - they opposed paying their taxes without having a say in how those taxes are then used, which is a very different issue.

It was a joke. I have ancestors on both sides of my family who literally fought and died in the Revolution. I understand and well read on that particular topic.

[Picairn]

The US was literally founded by guys advocating for violent resistance to taxes.

Wrong. They fought because of "Taxation without representation", not "Taxes going to those filthy migrants". The US Constitution gives Congress the taxation power, and after ratification of the Constitution it imposed tariffs (taxes on foreign imports which passes on to the consumers) and excise taxes on distilled spirits.

Edit: I saw your explaining post, so disregard this.

[Forsher]

The US was literally founded by guys advocating for violent resistance to taxes.

No, it wasn't "no taxation" but "no taxation without representation". They didn't oppose paying their taxes - they opposed paying their taxes without having a say in how those taxes are then used, which is a very different issue.

Ladies and gentlemen, proof PR consultants are worth it.

Wrong. They fought because of "Taxation without representation", not "Taxes going to those filthy migrants". The US Constitution gives Congress the taxation power, and after ratification of the Constitution it imposed tariffs (taxes on foreign imports which passes on to the consumers) and excise taxes on distilled spirits.

Edit: I saw your explaining post, so disregard this.

As I might have mentioned earlier, we will never know whether the 13 Colonies would have accepted representation if it had been offered.

1775. The Colonies had a combined population around 2 million (not counting slaves of course). Britain had a population around 8 million. With 20% representation in the Parliament, I don't think much would get changed re tax policies favorable to the majority.

My guess is that it would all fall apart in 1833 when the United Kingdom and Colonies Parliament would abolish Slavery. But be quickly reunited when British main force joined the North to crush Johnny Reb in a couple of weeks!

They paid much less in tax before and after the attempted changes.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

(Copy pasted some sources from one of my special super secret source docs; sorry if it comes off a bit choppy.)

>https://sci-hub.do/10.1146/annurev-soc-071913-043309
Enormous meta-analysis of 90 cross-sectional studies analyzing relationship between diversity & social cohesion.
Vast majority of studies on the subject fail to prove the relationship between two variables.
In fact, study finds positive relationship between inter-ethnic contact & trust in ethnically heterogeneous communities.
Only contrary data shows small-scale (intra-neighborhood) trust suffers with ethnic heterogeneity in some circumstances, and even then only in America.
Plurality of data does not support - and largely contradicts - assertion that diversity hurts social cohesion.

Sociology, what a joke. All western European countries right now are struggling to figure out what they can do about the skyrocketing increase of ethnic ghettos in their cities. These ghettos are the result of "birds flocking together" because that's what humans naturally do. They are the focal points of the most crime in every western country because they are home to people originally from savage cultures where savagery is totally normal and part of everyday life. Why is it that it is acceptable for every single non-western nation to demand immigrants integrate or even follow the major religion yet western nations must accept the whole world without demanding anything at all? Isn't it strange? Do the people who write such tripe not believe in democracy? If they did, then they wouldn't be churning out such anti-democratic garbage that goes against the daily experiences of regular people who can no longer even leave their homes without locking everything up and turning on the security system in fear of some Ali or Muhammad breaking in and taking everything that isn't bolted to the ground. But then again, to these people that's a result of "racism", right? That's because the host nation didn't give enough free shit to these people (which is never enough of course) and we must do even more to accommodate them. Then again, as most of the slime who come up with this trash have never even had regular jobs so perhaps they cannot understand what it is to pay enormous taxes that go to supporting these parasites while the country continues to collapse.

What can account for the remarkable distinction between the United States on the one hand and other (Western) countries—including neighboring Canada—on the other? In the United States, the public reacts most negatively to diversity. Although the United States is a traditional immigration country,no similar consistent link is observed in other traditional countries of immigration such as Australia, Canada, and New Zealand (cf.Hagendoorn 2009). Thus, we have little reason to expect that recent migration countries, such as those in Europe, will necessarily experience a similar setback in social cohesion at some point in the future.

This is ludicrous. All you have to do is actually live in any of these countries and see with your own eyes, speak with actual residents. In Australia, New Zealand and every single European country, the common view of actual working people (not insular tertiary students or academics who live in their own little bubbles) is that so-called "diversity" is a problem that needs to be solved. If you've lived in any other country in a regular neighbourhood for a significant amount of time, you'd know this. Even saviour of the sand people Merkel has admitted how bad multiculti has been for Germany. There is simply no escaping this. Your academics cannot fight against reality.

>https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/laibson/files/measuring_trust.pdf
Study which tested around 200 students in a trust based experiment and compared results from diverse groups and homogenous groups.
Finds no statistically significant negative relationship between diversity and social cohesion.

So students who have not had any real experience in the world are a good indicator of the success of multiculti? Why not survey actual working people who live and work among the 3rd world imports instead of such a selective sample? Or even the families of people whose children were groomed, raped and murdered by people who come from cultures where rape and honour killings are completely normal? Couldn't ever do that, could you? It would go against the narrative that you and your ilk are trying to push in order to destroy everything that has been achieved by the West. You people just seethe at the fact that average people do not want this for their countries. The tide is turning and people are increasingly voting for those who say "no more". Then again, in your fantasy kookooland, the increasing masses of people who vote against furthering this death cult are just too stupid to understand "the studies" and are infected with mind viruses, incapable of accepting "the science".

>https://psycnet.apa.org/buy/2018-13651-001
Study examining a range of experiments meant to gauge the relationship between diversity and social cohesion.
Study finds all of the experiments found a positive relationship between diversity and social cohesion.
Proposed mechanism is that diversity causes people to identify more broadly with humanity, increasing sociability.

Can't even read it without paying. Did you? Or did you just type in your argument into a websearch along with "journal" or "studies" and then paste the articles without having read them? If not, then could you actually copy+paste the actual article? Also:

By Nai, Jared,Narayanan, Jayanth,Hernandez, Ivan,Savani, Krishna

Totally unbiased bunch of people. Regardless, if you've studied at university, you will very well know that a thesis proposal examining the damaging impacts of multiculturalism on social cohesion and identity will get you a one way ticket to the faculty office for a "discussion". Universities (at least humanities faculties) have long since been hijacked by certain interests who do not care about the lives of regular blue collar people except to demonise them as ignorant fools. For people who speak against hierarchy/class society, you people surely love looking down on others, don't you?

Ah yes, when confronted with scientific study, you just respond with vitriol. "Well the study is probably somehow flawed because they're evil liberals," you said, so i say prove it. Really, because this is just like the time you assumed that "someone gay in any Muslim country will probably be killed," and then you provided less evidence for that than Trump did of election fraud. This is a common thing with you. You make assumptions or give anecdotal evidence when faced with actual studies, and you say the studies are somehow flawed without proving it. The sociologists, flawed as their field may be, spoke with actual data behind them. Perhaps you should have done the same.