by GuessTheAltAccount » Thu Jun 03, 2021 3:58 am
Bombadil wrote:My girlfriend wanted me to treat her like a princess, so I arranged for her to be married to a stranger to strengthen our alliance with Poland.
by Grinning Dragon » Thu Jun 03, 2021 4:17 am
by Shahrukh » Thu Jun 03, 2021 4:23 am
GuessTheAltAccount wrote:Topic came up here.
So far the attempts to cut down on child abuse and child neglect have been focused on deterrence, but the threat of facing a taste of one's own medicine; and then some, depending on the prison; has not been enough to scare parents into only having kids they intend to raise properly. We could up the ante, but we could only up the ante so far. Death penalty might actually backfire if some parents would rather die than encounter other prisoners as a convicted child abuser, and would rather be executed than be remembered as suicidal.
So why don't we shift the focus to prevention instead? Why don't we have parenting licenses? The usual response I hear elsewhere is that the government could misuse this authority. Well, the government could also theoretically misuse laws against abuse and neglect by only prosecuting dissidents who abuse and neglect their kids while leaving non-dissidents who do the same alone. Nevertheless, we have standards on parenting, answerable to a plurality of voters rather than just the individual parents. Why not try to predict how likely those standards are to be met by the parents, and if that seems unlikely, give the kid to one of the many would-be adoptive parents out there clamoring to take on that role if the child is still in the infancy stage, to make abuse and neglect less likely?
by The Blaatschapen » Thu Jun 03, 2021 4:27 am
by Greater Cesnica » Thu Jun 03, 2021 4:31 am
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San Lumen wrote:You are ridiculous.George Orwell wrote:“That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there.”
by Ethraia » Thu Jun 03, 2021 4:33 am
Well, the government could also theoretically misuse laws against abuse and neglect by only prosecuting dissidents who abuse and neglect their kids while leaving non-dissidents who do the same alone.
by Rusozak » Thu Jun 03, 2021 4:36 am
Grinning Dragon wrote:Gawd NO.
There are already punishments for parents/guardians who abuse their children.
by Grinning Dragon » Thu Jun 03, 2021 4:38 am
by GuessTheAltAccount » Thu Jun 03, 2021 4:39 am
Ethraia wrote:This is nowhere near on the same level. A government actually in charge of sexual reproduction
GuessTheAltAccount wrote:Why not try to predict how likely those standards are to be met by the parents, and if that seems unlikely, give the kid to one of the many would-be adoptive parents out there clamoring to take on that role if the child is still in the infancy stage, to make abuse and neglect less likely?
Bombadil wrote:My girlfriend wanted me to treat her like a princess, so I arranged for her to be married to a stranger to strengthen our alliance with Poland.
by Ethraia » Thu Jun 03, 2021 4:41 am
GuessTheAltAccount wrote:Ethraia wrote:This is nowhere near on the same level. A government actually in charge of sexual reproduction
"How to identify people who didn't read the OP" 101.GuessTheAltAccount wrote:Why not try to predict how likely those standards are to be met by the parents, and if that seems unlikely, give the kid to one of the many would-be adoptive parents out there clamoring to take on that role if the child is still in the infancy stage, to make abuse and neglect less likely?
Emphasis mine, at least this time around.
As for racial discrimination, incarceration is disproportionately targeted at minorities too, yet our solution isn't to abolish it altogether.
by Ethraia » Thu Jun 03, 2021 4:44 am
GuessTheAltAccount wrote:
As for racial discrimination, incarceration is disproportionately targeted at minorities too, yet our solution isn't to abolish it altogether.
by GuessTheAltAccount » Thu Jun 03, 2021 4:48 am
Ethraia wrote:GuessTheAltAccount wrote:"How to identify people who didn't read the OP" 101.
Emphasis mine, at least this time around.
As for racial discrimination, incarceration is disproportionately targeted at minorities too, yet our solution isn't to abolish it altogether.
Champ, I literally quoted the OP in my response. I read it. Thats not a rebuttal to valid points raised. They are in control of sexual reproduction. They cant prevent it, but if you've done it and fertilised an egg without a license, and they dont deem you suitable, you yourself said your child is taken away at birth and given up for adoption. That is functionally control over sexual reproduction. Now address the points.
Bombadil wrote:My girlfriend wanted me to treat her like a princess, so I arranged for her to be married to a stranger to strengthen our alliance with Poland.
by Stagnant Axon Terminal » Thu Jun 03, 2021 4:53 am
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by Kilobugya » Thu Jun 03, 2021 5:02 am
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by Ethraia » Thu Jun 03, 2021 5:07 am
Kilobugya wrote:There is just no realistic way to implement them that doesn't imply massive coercion and violation of rights, making it much worse than the problem it tries to solve.
I would rather have well-funded social services ensuring that children aren't abused/neglected, and ensure parents aren't omnipotent despots over their children, by making school attendance mandatory (no homeschooling), having doctors and not parents take the final decision for most health-related issues in children, and more generally making childcare a joint responsibility of parents and society, not of parents alone.
by Ethraia » Thu Jun 03, 2021 5:11 am
Valentine Z wrote:Oh, boy. I don't like to go this political, but here we are. Personally, I am seeing several problems.
- And then the opposite: How would you gauge the fitness of being a parent? Even corporal punishment and spanking is divided (though it's mostly in the favor of NOT hitting kids, but I am saying that it's not unanimous) amongst parents, so what about things like coming out, difficult-to-handle kids by nature, and the like? Is there a right or wrong way about this in getting a license?
by The Free Joy State » Thu Jun 03, 2021 5:16 am
Grinning Dragon wrote:Gawd NO.
There are already punishments for parents/guardians who abuse their children.
by Kilobugya » Thu Jun 03, 2021 5:21 am
The Free Joy State wrote:Granted, punishments for child abusers could stand to be harsher.
by The Free Joy State » Thu Jun 03, 2021 5:24 am
Valentine Z wrote:Oh, boy. I don't like to go this political, but here we are. Personally, I am seeing several problems.
- What happens if the parents that are unsuited got the licenses? Sure, they can play the act for years, but what if they one day decided to be the nastiest parents from Hell? Revoke their license? Sure, but it's just child services with extra inconvenient steps.
[*snip*]
- Andddd of course, the government. Ahh, now what happens then if religion (I am not slamming religion alone; it's just something super common that came out regardless of generations) and more politics are involved? "Oh, sorry, you two are homosexuals, you don't get a license," even if two of you have read Parenting 101 and are potentially going to be better than the ones that the government gave licenses to?
In short, I am not in favor of licensing kids. I will admit that not a single measure is 100% effective can prevent child abuse, BUT consider parenting lessons (even parents need to be taught sometimes), better and more accessible counseling, and of course, child services. Life is unpredictable - turning the worst parents into best, and vice versa - and it starts with every one of us to make it a little heavenly or hellish for both the parents and kids involved. ♥
Kilobugya wrote:The Free Joy State wrote:Granted, punishments for child abusers could stand to be harsher.
It's not so much that the penalty are too light (they might for some offenses, but overall they tend to be quite high already) but that enforcement is very hard, so most child abusers manage to slip through.
by Borderlands of Rojava » Thu Jun 03, 2021 5:25 am
by Ethraia » Thu Jun 03, 2021 5:27 am
Blackmoon Clan wrote:Furthermore, the reverse is true; parents who would otherwise be spectacular may be denied a child for harbouring homophobic viewpoints, because that would reduce their fitness to parent!
They wouldn't be spectacular if the offspring is gay... or by raising homophobes...
by Ethel mermania » Thu Jun 03, 2021 5:46 am
by Molotovsk » Thu Jun 03, 2021 5:58 am
Borderlands of Rojava wrote:No, you shouldn't have to have a license to have kids. That's literally beyond the hellscape George Orwell imagined.
by Saiwania » Thu Jun 03, 2021 6:31 am
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