Alcohol Discussion Thread I: Drunk Spirits

[Page]

Personal possession and use of a substance should never be illegal, period. If a person wants to mainline rat poison, that's their business. I'm not opposed to regulating the selling side to the extent that vendors are obligated to refrain from selling to minors and that they must keep adulterants out of their substances and truthfully disclose ingredients, dose, and purity of what they sell, but that's it. We should pursue policies of education and harm reduction rather than prohibition.

As to alcohol specifically, it is indeed quite more harmful than many universally illegal substances, and while I oppose prohibition altogether I acknowledge as many do that it's absurd for alcohol to be on the legal side of the arbitrary line while governments ban or try to ban much safer substances like psychedelics. Alcohol does damage but it also brings many people enjoyment and is part of the culture of billions.

[Dakini]

Considering how fucking easy it is to make booze and that people have been making booze since before agriculture, it is stupid to make it illegal.

I'm in favour of making it regulated, age-restricted and taxed and I think it is important to educate people about it and encourage safe consumption, but adults should be able to enjoy a bevvie if they want.

[Dakini]

Alcohol is for posers.

The new fab in town is getting vaccinated.

You can do both, you know. After we got vaccinated, my partner and I went out for celebratory beers.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Alcohol is for posers.

The new fab in town is getting vaccinated.

The only needle that'll get you high is heroin and maybe a few other drugs. The vaccine got me low for a day.

Don't do heroin kids. Get high on the swings...just kidding that's dangerous too.

[Dakini]

The UK Prime Minister seems willing for people to die from Covid just to get the pubs open, so I can't see it being banned here. But I do hate the culture of only drinking to get drunk, I would rather a culture where people appreciate good quality booze.

I mean, you can hang out with craft beer drinkers. There the culture is usually quality over quantity (though some people do still get carried away with the quantity on occasion). One thing I really liked in the UK is actually that you can often get portions smaller than a pint (e.g. schooners, half pints, third pints) so you can try more beers without getting too drink or make it easier to pace yourself throughout an evening.

[Molotovsk]

Alcohol is for posers.

The new fab in town is getting vaccinated.

You can do both, you know. After we got vaccinated, my partner and I went out for celebratory beers.

Pretty obvious by your signature.

[The Blaatschapen]

The UK Prime Minister seems willing for people to die from Covid just to get the pubs open, so I can't see it being banned here. But I do hate the culture of only drinking to get drunk, I would rather a culture where people appreciate good quality booze.

I mean, you can hang out with craft beer drinkers. There the culture is usually quality over quantity (though some people do still get carried away with the quantity on occasion). One thing I really liked in the UK is actually that you can often get portions smaller than a pint (e.g. schooners, half pints, third pints) so you can try more beers without getting too drink or make it easier to pace yourself throughout an evening.

Ah, craft beer.

Over here it's the same, you can do the regular 0.5L, or go for smaller, 0.2 or 0.3. Sometimes even 0.1 or 0.15.

And there's so many places. I really should check out the one around the corner though, I haven't gone there since I moved. Then again, I have a good excuse called pandemic

[Dakini]

I mean, you can hang out with craft beer drinkers. There the culture is usually quality over quantity (though some people do still get carried away with the quantity on occasion). One thing I really liked in the UK is actually that you can often get portions smaller than a pint (e.g. schooners, half pints, third pints) so you can try more beers without getting too drink or make it easier to pace yourself throughout an evening.

Ah, craft beer.

Over here it's the same, you can do the regular 0.5L, or go for smaller, 0.2 or 0.3. Sometimes even 0.1 or 0.15.

And there's so many places. I really should check out the one around the corner though, I haven't gone there since I moved. Then again, I have a good excuse called pandemic

Oh, here it's the same (or seems to be, the place we've found does 0,2 L and 0,4 L). In principle, it was like that in Japan too, except that craft beer hadn't taken off when I was in Japan so you could get like 200 mL or 500 mL of Heineken.

In Canada though, the options were like a pint or a pitcher (about 3.5 pints) when I was living there, so being able to choose a smaller quantity of good beer was a nice change. The craft beer places in Canada have started to do smaller portions based on my more recent visits, but it's not widespread in normal pubs the way it is in the UK (I don't think I've been to a place in the UK where you could only get pints, usually a half is also an option at the very least, but in regular non-craft pubs in Canada a pint is the smallest I've found).

[Kubra]

The UK Prime Minister seems willing for people to die from Covid just to get the pubs open, so I can't see it being banned here. But I do hate the culture of only drinking to get drunk, I would rather a culture where people appreciate good quality booze.

I mean, you can hang out with craft beer drinkers. There the culture is usually quality over quantity (though some people do still get carried away with the quantity on occasion). One thing I really liked in the UK is actually that you can often get portions smaller than a pint (e.g. schooners, half pints, third pints) so you can try more beers without getting too drink or make it easier to pace yourself throughout an evening.

As long as a smaller size is optional and clearly stated, and that whatever is called a pint on the menu is defined as 20 british *imperial* ounces.
One must always be vigilant.

Ah, craft beer.

Over here it's the same, you can do the regular 0.5L, or go for smaller, 0.2 or 0.3. Sometimes even 0.1 or 0.15.

And there's so many places. I really should check out the one around the corner though, I haven't gone there since I moved. Then again, I have a good excuse called pandemic

Oh, here it's the same (or seems to be, the place we've found does 0,2 L and 0,4 L). In principle, it was like that in Japan too, except that craft beer hadn't taken off when I was in Japan so you could get like 200 mL or 500 mL of Heineken.

In Canada though, the options were like a pint or a pitcher (about 3.5 pints) when I was living there, so being able to choose a smaller quantity of good beer was a nice change. The craft beer places in Canada have started to do smaller portions based on my more recent visits, but it's not widespread in normal pubs the way it is in the UK (I don't think I've been to a place in the UK where you could only get pints, usually a half is also an option at the very least, but in regular non-craft pubs in Canada a pint is the smallest I've found).

Go to nicer bars, you'll never have to worry about servings being too big. Am I right or am I right, foolks?

[The Blaatschapen]

Ah, craft beer.

Over here it's the same, you can do the regular 0.5L, or go for smaller, 0.2 or 0.3. Sometimes even 0.1 or 0.15.

And there's so many places. I really should check out the one around the corner though, I haven't gone there since I moved. Then again, I have a good excuse called pandemic

Oh, here it's the same (or seems to be, the place we've found does 0,2 L and 0,4 L). In principle, it was like that in Japan too, except that craft beer hadn't taken off when I was in Japan so you could get like 200 mL or 500 mL of Heineken.

In Canada though, the options were like a pint or a pitcher (about 3.5 pints) when I was living there, so being able to choose a smaller quantity of good beer was a nice change. The craft beer places in Canada have started to do smaller portions based on my more recent visits, but it's not widespread in normal pubs the way it is in the UK (I don't think I've been to a place in the UK where you could only get pints, usually a half is also an option at the very least, but in regular non-craft pubs in Canada a pint is the smallest I've found).

How is the craft beer situation in your new neck of the woods? Plenty of variety? I was in the city center there... about 2.5 years ago. But also went to quite a few just regular bars.

[Dakini]

I mean, you can hang out with craft beer drinkers. There the culture is usually quality over quantity (though some people do still get carried away with the quantity on occasion). One thing I really liked in the UK is actually that you can often get portions smaller than a pint (e.g. schooners, half pints, third pints) so you can try more beers without getting too drink or make it easier to pace yourself throughout an evening.

As long as a smaller size is optional and clearly stated, and that whatever is called a pint on the menu is defined as 20 british *imperial* ounces.
One must always be vigilant.

Scotland has an actual law about how your pints have to be actual pints and all that. The size for a shot of liquor also has a minimum requirement (iirc, it's 15 mL, though I used to go to a pub that did 25 mL measures) and there are specific measures for wine as well. Most places have standard measuring devices for liquor or wine that the bartender will pour into before serving you and the beer glasses have markings. If your beer isn't poured up to the line, you can ask them to top it up for you.

I can say that one of my favourite pubs in Edinburgh didn't do pints at all. They only do schooners (2/3rd pints) and 1/3rd pints. But they alwiays have so many good beers and their menu is always changing so smaller portions are the way to go, imo.

Oh, here it's the same (or seems to be, the place we've found does 0,2 L and 0,4 L). In principle, it was like that in Japan too, except that craft beer hadn't taken off when I was in Japan so you could get like 200 mL or 500 mL of Heineken.

In Canada though, the options were like a pint or a pitcher (about 3.5 pints) when I was living there, so being able to choose a smaller quantity of good beer was a nice change. The craft beer places in Canada have started to do smaller portions based on my more recent visits, but it's not widespread in normal pubs the way it is in the UK (I don't think I've been to a place in the UK where you could only get pints, usually a half is also an option at the very least, but in regular non-craft pubs in Canada a pint is the smallest I've found).

How is the craft beer situation in your new neck of the woods? Plenty of variety? I was in the city center there... about 2.5 years ago. But also went to quite a few just regular bars.

Well, we've found one pub owned by a local brewery that we like a lot. They sell beer by other Romanian breweries that are farther afield though and some international stuff in addition to their own and there's definitely a reasonable amount of variety. The options in my village are somewhat limited since there are just two local supermarkets and neither of them has an amazing beer selection. We haven't technically tried the local restaurants, but they seem to have a bunch of macro brews.

And yeah, when I first got here and started doing my Untappd check ins, you were usually the only person among my friends who'd had the beers I was checking in.

[The Blaatschapen]

As long as a smaller size is optional and clearly stated, and that whatever is called a pint on the menu is defined as 20 british *imperial* ounces.
One must always be vigilant.

Scotland has an actual law about how your pints have to be actual pints and all that. The size for a shot of liquor also has a minimum requirement (iirc, it's 15 mL, though I used to go to a pub that did 25 mL measures) and there are specific measures for wine as well. Most places have standard measuring devices for liquor or wine that the bartender will pour into before serving you and the beer glasses have markings. If your beer isn't poured up to the line, you can ask them to top it up for you.

I can say that one of my favourite pubs in Edinburgh didn't do pints at all. They only do schooners (2/3rd pints) and 1/3rd pints. But they alwiays have so many good beers and their menu is always changing so smaller portions are the way to go, imo.

How is the craft beer situation in your new neck of the woods? Plenty of variety? I was in the city center there... about 2.5 years ago. But also went to quite a few just regular bars.

Well, we've found one pub owned by a local brewery that we like a lot. They sell beer by other Romanian breweries that are farther afield though and some international stuff in addition to their own and there's definitely a reasonable amount of variety. The options in my village are somewhat limited since there are just two local supermarkets and neither of them has an amazing beer selection. We haven't technically tried the local restaurants, but they seem to have a bunch of macro brews.

And yeah, when I first got here and started doing my Untappd check ins, you were usually the only person among my friends who'd had the beers I was checking in.

Yes, that does sound like me
And if/when you have drunk it all, there are direct flights to here and I'll show you around

[Kubra]

As long as a smaller size is optional and clearly stated, and that whatever is called a pint on the menu is defined as 20 british *imperial* ounces.
One must always be vigilant.

Scotland has an actual law about how your pints have to be actual pints and all that. The size for a shot of liquor also has a minimum requirement (iirc, it's 15 mL, though I used to go to a pub that did 25 mL measures) and there are specific measures for wine as well. Most places have standard measuring devices for liquor or wine that the bartender will pour into before serving you and the beer glasses have markings. If your beer isn't poured up to the line, you can ask them to top it up for you.

I can say that one of my favourite pubs in Edinburgh didn't do pints at all. They only do schooners (2/3rd pints) and 1/3rd pints. But they alwiays have so many good beers and their menu is always changing so smaller portions are the way to go, imo.

Canada also has similar pint laws, but the farther west you go the more they're worked around or outright flouted. I, of course, blame the perfidious americans and their perfidious means of measuring.

[Quyona]

I would make it mandatory for people to either drink alcohol or smoke weed every day. The benefit to society from all the mellow would be incalculable.

I hope thats satire.

[Kubra]

I would make it mandatory for people to either drink alcohol or smoke weed every day. The benefit to society from all the mellow would be incalculable.

I hope thats satire.

Mandatory replacement of public drinking fountains with THC infused spirytus dispensers.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

I would make it mandatory for people to either drink alcohol or smoke weed every day. The benefit to society from all the mellow would be incalculable.

I hope thats satire.

No its not, now smoke this joint or you will be rezoned to re-education camp 420 where you will be retrained to like weed.

And no this isn't fascism. The camps were built with horizontally organized labor and are environmentally friendly, and we made sure half of the guards are black and hispanic and 60% are female.

[Kubra]

I hope thats satire.

No its not, now smoke this joint or you will be rezoned to re-education camp 420 where you will be retrained to like weed.

And no this isn't fascism. The camps were built with horizontally organized labor and are environmentally friendly, and we made sure half of the guards are black and hispanic and 60% are female.

>420 re-education camps all called re-education camp 420
>except for one named re-education camp 69

[Senkaku]

Simply issue citizens spare livers for free upon request. Or frankly, once we have some serious cloning vats, and those crazy surgery robots have gotten a bit cheaper, just make people upgrade their organs every decade or so. You go in, they plug the new stuff in, you convalesce for a bit, and then you go get your passport photo updated and you’ll look so youthful and healthy in it!

[Molotovsk]

Simply issue citizens spare livers for free upon request. Or frankly, once we have some serious cloning vats, and those crazy surgery robots have gotten a bit cheaper, just make people upgrade their organs every decade or so. You go in, they plug the new stuff in, you convalesce for a bit, and then you go get your passport photo updated and you’ll look so youthful and healthy in it!

Understood...

[Lady Victory]

I'm a teetotaler and I plan to keep it that way. Alcoholism destroys lives and families.

That said, prohibition didn't work and shouldn't be brought back either. Let people drink if they want to, I'm gonna pass myself.

[Enjuku]

If we follow OP and were able to decide alcohol's fate before it developed as it did, I'd make it illegal.

But as things are now, alcohol is too engrained in the cultural life of human beings to flat out ban. It's too widespread.

Notably though, since everyone keeps bringing up Prohibition, let's not dismiss how successful the Prohibition movement was in limiting alcohol consumption in general. Alcoholism was a very real social problem in the 1800s. One of the major causes of death in industrial Europe and America was alcoholism. It broke up families because working class men would spend long hours at factories, then come home and spend their free time drinking their pain away. Spousal and child abuse was rampant because of drunkards in families. Etc.

Many Prohibitionist movements weren't 100% dry and simply advocated moderating alcohol consumption or imposing regulations on how it's bought and sold. And this led to the modern alcohol regulations we know today (banning drunk driving, no buying alcohol on Sundays, age restrictions on alcohol purchases, no alcohol drinking in public places, permitting divorces due to alcoholism, etc).

I'd say alcoholism isn't nearly the issue it was during the industrial revolution, partly thanks to the Prohibition movement. They didn't achieve a complete ban, but they did do something to fight alcoholism.

[The Blaatschapen]

If we follow OP and were able to decide alcohol's fate before it developed as it did, I'd make it illegal.

But as things are now, alcohol is too engrained in the cultural life of human beings to flat out ban. It's too widespread.

Notably though, since everyone keeps bringing up Prohibition, let's not dismiss how successful the Prohibition movement was in limiting alcohol consumption in general. Alcoholism was a very real social problem in the 1800s. One of the major causes of death in industrial Europe and America was alcoholism. It broke up families because working class men would spend long hours at factories, then come home and spend their free time drinking their pain away. Spousal and child abuse was rampant because of drunkards in families. Etc.

I'd argue that alcoholism was a symptom of something else. The massive abuse of workers by the factory owners. So they should have reformed that (there were some, but enough?) rather than prohibition.

[Enjuku]

If we follow OP and were able to decide alcohol's fate before it developed as it did, I'd make it illegal.

But as things are now, alcohol is too engrained in the cultural life of human beings to flat out ban. It's too widespread.

Notably though, since everyone keeps bringing up Prohibition, let's not dismiss how successful the Prohibition movement was in limiting alcohol consumption in general. Alcoholism was a very real social problem in the 1800s. One of the major causes of death in industrial Europe and America was alcoholism. It broke up families because working class men would spend long hours at factories, then come home and spend their free time drinking their pain away. Spousal and child abuse was rampant because of drunkards in families. Etc.

I'd argue that alcoholism was a symptom of something else. The massive abuse of workers by the factory owners. So they should have reformed that (there were some, but enough?) rather than prohibition.

Workplace abuse was definitely a factor. But I'd wager it was a combination of eliminating workplace abuse and limiting access to alcohol that combatted the epidemic.

If you're already addicted to alcohol, getting a shorter workday or better safety regulations isn't going to stop you from drinking.

[The Blaatschapen]

I'd argue that alcoholism was a symptom of something else. The massive abuse of workers by the factory owners. So they should have reformed that (there were some, but enough?) rather than prohibition.

Workplace abuse was definitely a factor. But I'd wager it was a combination of eliminating workplace abuse and limiting access to alcohol that combatted the epidemic.

If you're already addicted to alcohol, getting a shorter workday or better safety regulations isn't going to stop you from drinking.

Shorter workdays actually help with drinking more

[Kubra]

I'd argue that alcoholism was a symptom of something else. The massive abuse of workers by the factory owners. So they should have reformed that (there were some, but enough?) rather than prohibition.

Workplace abuse was definitely a factor. But I'd wager it was a combination of eliminating workplace abuse and limiting access to alcohol that combatted the epidemic.

If you're already addicted to alcohol, getting a shorter workday or better safety regulations isn't going to stop you from drinking.

Depends what one means by "addicted". Physical dependency is a *motherfucker*, especially with alcohol, but psychological dependency is much more pliable.