Christian Discussion Thread XII: Soter? I hardly know her!

[Luminesa]

Greetings, Christians. As a long-time Catholic, almost since my birth in fact, I am interested in reading the Bible. Technically I have already read the Bible, Lion First translation, but I would like to read a version more appropriate to my age. Looking around, there are a lot of versions out there. Which would the users of this thread recommend?

What exactly is your age-range? Older, younger, etc.?

[Diopolis]

Greetings, Christians. As a long-time Catholic, almost since my birth in fact, I am interested in reading the Bible. Technically I have already read the Bible, Lion First translation, but I would like to read a version more appropriate to my age. Looking around, there are a lot of versions out there. Which would the users of this thread recommend?

Douay-Rheims if you're comfortable with a much older translation, New Roman Standard version(preferred for English-language citations in Catholic theological studies) if you're not. The New American bible is full of politically correct executive meddling- that doesn't make it a terrible translation, but if your goal is to read the whole bible, it's probably a poor choice due to that issue.
Needless to say, with reading the entire bible as a goal, it would be best to avoid protestant translations which typically leave out seven books, even if they're reasonably accurate translations of the remainder.

[Old Tyrannia]

Greetings, Christians. As a long-time Catholic, almost since my birth in fact, I am interested in reading the Bible. Technically I have already read the Bible, Lion First translation, but I would like to read a version more appropriate to my age. Looking around, there are a lot of versions out there. Which would the users of this thread recommend?

The King James Version is the best for literary merit, and the New King James Version preserves much of the style whilst being an easier read if you're not keen on deciphering Early Modern English. The New Revised Standard Version (NSRV) is probably the best for accuracy of translation, and is popular with biblical scholars.

[Tarsonis]

Greetings, Christians. As a long-time Catholic, almost since my birth in fact, I am interested in reading the Bible. Technically I have already read the Bible, Lion First translation, but I would like to read a version more appropriate to my age. Looking around, there are a lot of versions out there. Which would the users of this thread recommend?

The King James Version is the best for literary merit, and the New King James Version preserves much of the style whilst being an easier read if you're not keen on deciphering Early Modern English. The New Revised Standard Version (NSRV) is probably the best for accuracy of translation, and is popular with biblical scholars.

I second this one, but make it the NRSVCE, which includes the Apocrypha

[Prima Scriptura]

I wish my fellow (Evangelical) Protestants would recognize that Lord Jesus and Apostle Paul weren’t the only men called to by God to celibacy.


A little bit of a morbid/gallows question is, if you were laid off to Martyrdom, what prayers, Bible verses or hyms would be be saying/singing? I would be either be singing “Near the Cross” or praying The Creed

[Salus Maior]

I wish my fellow (Evangelical) Protestants would recognize that Lord Jesus and Apostle Paul weren’t the only men called to by God to celibacy.


A little bit of a morbid/gallows question is, if you were laid off to Martyrdom, what prayers, Bible verses or hyms would be be saying/singing? I would be either be singing “Near the Cross” or praying The Creed

Ideally I would just forgive them and that would be it.

[Prima Scriptura]

When my life is not in a good situation, I like to think about God‘s Grace and Mercy and thank Him for it….rather what I thought before. Are there any particular Bible verses that this describes?

[The free romanians]

Question
Ik arians aren't so christian but anyways
Are there arian groups today

[New Visayan Islands]

Question
Ik arians aren't so christian but anyways
Are there arian groups today

Various restorationist sects subscribing to a nontrinitarian theology can be described as "modern day Arians"--indeed, this moniker is exactly the term used to describe Jehovah's Witnesses by their opponents, if not "semi-Arian"--or adjacent enough to be the closest thing to the same, as is the case with the Mormons and the Iglesia ni Cristo.

[Diopolis]

Question
Ik arians aren't so christian but anyways
Are there arian groups today

Various restorationist sects subscribing to a nontrinitarian theology can be described as "modern day Arians"--indeed, this moniker is exactly the term used to describe Jehovah's Witnesses by their opponents, if not "semi-Arian"--or adjacent enough to be the closest thing to the same, as is the case with the Mormons and the Iglesia ni Cristo.

Not sure about the Iglesia ni Cristo, but Mormon Christology is... unique rather than truly Arian.
JW's do use Arian theology quite extensively, though(or rather, have only rather superficial differences from Arian theology in their Christological views).

[Salus Maior]

Question
Ik arians aren't so christian but anyways
Are there arian groups today

Various restorationist sects subscribing to a nontrinitarian theology can be described as "modern day Arians"--indeed, this moniker is exactly the term used to describe Jehovah's Witnesses by their opponents, if not "semi-Arian"--or adjacent enough to be the closest thing to the same, as is the case with the Mormons and the Iglesia ni Cristo.

Mormons aren't Arian.

[Benuty]

Various restorationist sects subscribing to a nontrinitarian theology can be described as "modern day Arians"--indeed, this moniker is exactly the term used to describe Jehovah's Witnesses by their opponents, if not "semi-Arian"--or adjacent enough to be the closest thing to the same, as is the case with the Mormons and the Iglesia ni Cristo.

Mormons aren't Arian.

They may not be Arian but are perhaps the most evangelical polytheists of the modern era.

[New Visayan Islands]

Various restorationist sects subscribing to a nontrinitarian theology can be described as "modern day Arians"--indeed, this moniker is exactly the term used to describe Jehovah's Witnesses by their opponents, if not "semi-Arian"--or adjacent enough to be the closest thing to the same, as is the case with the Mormons and the Iglesia ni Cristo.

Not sure about the Iglesia ni Cristo, but Mormon Christology is... unique rather than truly Arian.
JW's do use Arian theology quite extensively, though(or rather, have only rather superficial differences from Arian theology in their Christological views).

Considering that the INC expressly denies the divinity of Our Lord Jesus Christ while acknowledging His pre-existence, at the very least they are adjacent enough to be Arian in Christology.

[The Archregimancy]

Question
Ik arians aren't so christian but anyways
Are there arian groups today

From a historical perspective, there are no modern Christian groups who can claim direct uninterrupted descent from the Arian church of Late Antiquity and the early medieval period. The last Arian Christians that we know about abandoned Arianism in the 7th century (though it's of course possible that isolated pockets of Arians survived for longer).

As we're seeing in this thread, there's often a tendency to equate modern non-Trinitarian Christian and polytheist Christian-adjacent groups with Arianism. While there are often superficial similarities, this is ultimately misleading since all of these groups are functionally modern products of the Reformation with no relationship to the Arianism of Arius, Ulfilas, or Theodoric the Great. 1000 years separates them from Arianism in its classic (and indeed Classical) form.

[Nlarhyalo]

I know that whatever group that 'church' that spawned the highly-mediocre Hillsong music project is a part of rejects the divine nature of Christ, instead teaching that he was a man in perfect union with God, and that people today can achieve this same union somehow (their method seem to involve waving their arms wildly and sleeping in graveyards, though I'm not sure what those tangibly accomplish).

Would they be considered neo-Arians of some sort?

[The Alma Mater]

https://www.christianitytoday.com/news/ ... ivors.html

Armed with a secret list of more than 700 abusive pastors, Southern Baptist leaders chose to protect the denomination from lawsuits rather than protect the people in their churches from further abuse. Survivors, advocates, and some Southern Baptists themselves spent more than 15 years calling for ways to keep sexual predators from moving quietly from one flock to another. The men who controlled the Executive Committee (EC)—which runs day-to-day operations of the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC)—knew the scope of the problem. But, working closely with their lawyers, they maligned the people who wanted to do something about abuse and repeatedly rejected pleas for help and reform.

Sigh.

[Northern Socialist Council Republics]

Sigh.

Let’s see, we have this highly authoritarian institution with enormous social authority, insulated from external criticism by the exclusivity of its ideology, and with a fierce opposition to the very idea of reform?

Who could possibly have predicted that religious institutions might be particularly vulnerable to abuses of power? >_>;;

[Dylar]

I wish my fellow (Evangelical) Protestants would recognize that Lord Jesus and Apostle Paul weren’t the only men called to by God to celibacy.


A little bit of a morbid/gallows question is, if you were laid off to Martyrdom, what prayers, Bible verses or hyms would be be saying/singing? I would be either be singing “Near the Cross” or praying The Creed

depends on the execution. If I'm getting burned on the gridiron, then I'm just gonna borrow a line from St. Lawrence

Turn me over I'm done on this side

[Salus Maior]

Question
Ik arians aren't so christian but anyways
Are there arian groups today

From a historical perspective, there are no modern Christian groups who can claim direct uninterrupted descent from the Arian church of Late Antiquity and the early medieval period. The last Arian Christians that we know about abandoned Arianism in the 7th century (though it's of course possible that isolated pockets of Arians survived for longer).

As we're seeing in this thread, there's often a tendency to equate modern non-Trinitarian Christian and polytheist Christian-adjacent groups with Arianism. While there are often superficial similarities, this is ultimately misleading since all of these groups are functionally modern products of the Reformation with no relationship to the Arianism of Arius, Ulfilas, or Theodoric the Great. 1000 years separates them from Arianism in its classic (and indeed Classical) form.

I don't think anyone claims that modern rehashes of Arian error are connected to the original Arians.

[Tarsonis]

From a historical perspective, there are no modern Christian groups who can claim direct uninterrupted descent from the Arian church of Late Antiquity and the early medieval period. The last Arian Christians that we know about abandoned Arianism in the 7th century (though it's of course possible that isolated pockets of Arians survived for longer).

As we're seeing in this thread, there's often a tendency to equate modern non-Trinitarian Christian and polytheist Christian-adjacent groups with Arianism. While there are often superficial similarities, this is ultimately misleading since all of these groups are functionally modern products of the Reformation with no relationship to the Arianism of Arius, Ulfilas, or Theodoric the Great. 1000 years separates them from Arianism in its classic (and indeed Classical) form.

I don't think anyone claims that modern rehashes of Arian error are connected to the original Arians.

No but I think he does have a point in that Arianism is a particularly specific doctrine, and we have the habit of using Unitarian and Arian interchangeably.

[The Archregimancy]

From a historical perspective, there are no modern Christian groups who can claim direct uninterrupted descent from the Arian church of Late Antiquity and the early medieval period. The last Arian Christians that we know about abandoned Arianism in the 7th century (though it's of course possible that isolated pockets of Arians survived for longer).

As we're seeing in this thread, there's often a tendency to equate modern non-Trinitarian Christian and polytheist Christian-adjacent groups with Arianism. While there are often superficial similarities, this is ultimately misleading since all of these groups are functionally modern products of the Reformation with no relationship to the Arianism of Arius, Ulfilas, or Theodoric the Great. 1000 years separates them from Arianism in its classic (and indeed Classical) form.

I don't think anyone claims that modern rehashes of Arian error are connected to the original Arians.

Nor was I stating that they did.

But, as also noted by Tarsonis, there's a tendency to refer to modern non-Trinitarian groups such as JWs and Mormons as 'Arians' on the basis of some superficial theological similarities, when in fact they're quite distinct in both doctrine and praxis.

free romanians is not a native English speaker, and the intent of his question 'Are there arian groups today?' was unclear; it wasn't clear if he was asking if any true Arian groups had survived from antiquity to today, or if he was asking if there were any modern groups professing Arianism. The majority - by no mean all, but a majority - of the thread seemed to assume the latter, and then immediately started offering examples of groups who have some superficial similarities to Classical Arians (many of which seemed to be cherry-picked from the Wikipedia article on Arianism), but who don't in fact profess Arian theology.

My post was therefore intended to clarify the important distinction between actual Arians and modern non-Trinitarianism while also addressing the ambiguity in free romanians' original query.

There used to be an online only 'Arian Catholic Church' that claimed to be a refounded Arian church in both theology and practice. But it only had an internet presence, and its past links now all seem to be broken - though a Facebook page that hasn't been updated since 2015 is still online: https://www.facebook.com/arian.catholic.church/

[Salus Maior]

I don't think anyone claims that modern rehashes of Arian error are connected to the original Arians.

No but I think he does have a point in that Arianism is a particularly specific doctrine, and we have the habit of using Unitarian and Arian interchangeably.

Well, true. But Arianism tends to be a descriptor used for groups that believe that Christ is a creation of the Father and not co-eternal with Him. Which, fair, isn't all the original Arians believed and there's nuance there, but it's an easy enough descriptor that's useful enough to describe why a group is in error Christologically.

[Sordhau]

So I've sort of lost track of how long it's been since I last watched porn but I think it's been around 4-5 months now? Either way this is tremendous progress for me. I still get urges and deal with them appropriately, which is y'know not great, but at least I'm not watching porn while doing it. I have had marginal success at suppressing said urges in general. That's much harder, though. Doesn't always work out.

I still think having a girlfriend might make this easier. Like, Paul talks about people who can't be celibate because they can't control their urges and says it's better for them to be married if that's the case. I identify with that a bit; I think I'm just one of those people, but I'm too socially awkward to be an adulterer (which I'm pretty sure is what he was trying to prevent) so I just sit here with nothing but my hand to keep me company which is just... pathetic.

Lust is the worst sin. It's the hardest to fight and the easiest to fall victim to.

[Lower Nubia]

So I've sort of lost track of how long it's been since I last watched porn but I think it's been around 4-5 months now? Either way this is tremendous progress for me. I still get urges and deal with them appropriately, which is y'know not great, but at least I'm not watching porn while doing it. I have had marginal success at suppressing said urges in general. That's much harder, though. Doesn't always work out.

I still think having a girlfriend might make this easier. Like, Paul talks about people who can't be celibate because they can't control their urges and says it's better for them to be married if that's the case. I identify with that a bit; I think I'm just one of those people, but I'm too socially awkward to be an adulterer (which I'm pretty sure is what he was trying to prevent) so I just sit here with nothing but my hand to keep me company which is just... pathetic.

Lust is the worst sin. It's the hardest to fight and the easiest to fall victim to.

A wife. A girlfriend would just transfer the sin from masturbation to fornication.

I’d also be cautious that simply having a wife is an easy fix for masturbation and pornography, it’s absolutely normal for masturbation to still accompany married life which makes it a constant issue to deal with if it’s an issue now.

[Duvniask]

I will never understand people who are ashamed at their own sexuality.