Christian Discussion Thread XII: Soter? I hardly know her!

[Ertilea]

Save the ''Christians'' from their demographic transition a**.

What does that mean

It is appearant that Christians have low fertility rates and higher death rates except in Southeast Asia and especially Africa, to so extant to be on par with Japan in terms of population decrease level.

Kudos to Christians and Jews in their ''work'', as today's Christianity is far away from Abrahamic reality of believing in the God while being much or even more closer to Eastern religions in terms of principles of faith to the God. Jews follow the Christians next.

And please do not say something about Muslims, even an idiot will know that some of them are complete bigots and really out of their religion for purpose.

[Michel Meilleur]

What does that mean

It is appearant that Christians have low fertility rates and higher death rates except in Southeast Asia and especially Africa, to so extant to be on par with Japan in terms of population decrease level.

Kudos to Christians and Jews in their ''work'', as today's Christianity is far away from Abrahamic reality of believing in the God while being much or even more closer to Eastern religions in terms of principles of faith to the God. Jews follow the Christians next.

And please do not say something about Muslims, even an idiot will know that some of them are complete bigots and really out of their religion for purpose.

That's a big word salad to say "Christians bad, me no like them" but quite missing the fact that Christians aren't "born", they're made. Case in point for myself, I was raised an atheist and converted once I was older.
My case is far from being alone, Christianity is still to this day the religion that most peoples converts to, and it will very likely continue to be the case in the future, hence birthrates shouldn't be something to worry about.

[Salus Maior]

What does that mean

It is appearant that Christians have low fertility rates and higher death rates except in Southeast Asia and especially Africa, to so extant to be on par with Japan in terms of population decrease level.

Kudos to Christians and Jews in their ''work'', as today's Christianity is far away from Abrahamic reality of believing in the God while being much or even more closer to Eastern religions in terms of principles of faith to the God. Jews follow the Christians next.

And please do not say something about Muslims, even an idiot will know that some of them are complete bigots and really out of their religion for purpose.

That's more of a "West" problem than a Christian problem specifically.

[The free romanians]

What does that mean

It is appearant that Christians have low fertility rates and higher death rates except in Southeast Asia and especially Africa, to so extant to be on par with Japan in terms of population decrease level.

Kudos to Christians and Jews in their ''work'', as today's Christianity is far away from Abrahamic reality of believing in the God while being much or even more closer to Eastern religions in terms of principles of faith to the God. Jews follow the Christians next.

And please do not say something about Muslims, even an idiot will know that some of them are complete bigots and really out of their religion for purpose.

Im pretty sure china has a fast growing population of christians

[Suriyanakhon]

Kudos to Christians and Jews in their ''work'', as today's Christianity is far away from Abrahamic reality of believing in the God while being much or even more closer to Eastern religions in terms of principles of faith to the God.

What is this even supposed to mean?

[The Archregimancy]

What does that mean

It is appearant that Christians have low fertility rates and higher death rates except in Southeast Asia and especially Africa, to so extant to be on par with Japan in terms of population decrease level.

Kudos to Christians and Jews in their ''work'', as today's Christianity is far away from Abrahamic reality of believing in the God while being much or even more closer to Eastern religions in terms of principles of faith to the God. Jews follow the Christians next.

And please do not say something about Muslims, even an idiot will know that some of them are complete bigots and really out of their religion for purpose.

Much of this is weird, and needs no serious reply.

But it's worth noting that both Christianity and Judaism are eastern religions in origin; or at least eastern Mediterranean religions. I suppose much depends on where we think 'east' begins. But they're realistically not western religions; their original homeland is definitely in what westerners refer to as the 'Middle East'.

[Sordhau]

Kudos to Christians and Jews in their ''work'', as today's Christianity is far away from Abrahamic reality of believing in the God while being much or even more closer to Eastern religions in terms of principles of faith to the God.

What is this even supposed to mean?

"Christianity is too 'Westernized' and out-of-touch with it's roots."

At least that's how I understood it. Or something to that effect anyway.

[Duvniask]

It is appearant that Christians have low fertility rates and higher death rates except in Southeast Asia and especially Africa, to so extant to be on par with Japan in terms of population decrease level.

Kudos to Christians and Jews in their ''work'', as today's Christianity is far away from Abrahamic reality of believing in the God while being much or even more closer to Eastern religions in terms of principles of faith to the God. Jews follow the Christians next.

And please do not say something about Muslims, even an idiot will know that some of them are complete bigots and really out of their religion for purpose.

Im pretty sure china has a fast growing population of christians

Christians are ~1-3% of China's population. Those are the numbers you get from survey data like in the CGSS and CFPS, which also show that Christianity is more prominent among older people and not the young. They also don't really show any growth you couldn't attribute to standard errors.

Do also keep in mind that (poor) Western estimates, often from Christian-affiliated organizations, have been inflating the numbers for years, with some making ludicrous claims of 100 million Christians. The true number is probably around 30-40 million.

[The free romanians]

Im pretty sure china has a fast growing population of christians

Christians are ~1-3% of China's population. Those are the numbers you get from survey data like in the CGSS and CFPS, which also show that Christianity is more prominent among older people and not the young. They also don't really show any growth you couldn't attribute to standard errors.

Do also keep in mind that (poor) Western estimates, often from Christian-affiliated organizations, have been inflating the numbers for years, with some making ludicrous claims of 100 million Christians. The true number is probably around 30-40 million.

Well
People do convert

[Duvniask]

Christians are ~1-3% of China's population. Those are the numbers you get from survey data like in the CGSS and CFPS, which also show that Christianity is more prominent among older people and not the young. They also don't really show any growth you couldn't attribute to standard errors.

Do also keep in mind that (poor) Western estimates, often from Christian-affiliated organizations, have been inflating the numbers for years, with some making ludicrous claims of 100 million Christians. The true number is probably around 30-40 million.

Well
People do convert

And where exactly is the data showing a "fast growing" population of Christians?

[Prima Scriptura]

It is appearant that Christians have low fertility rates and higher death rates except in Southeast Asia and especially Africa, to so extant to be on par with Japan in terms of population decrease level.

Kudos to Christians and Jews in their ''work'', as today's Christianity is far away from Abrahamic reality of believing in the God while being much or even more closer to Eastern religions in terms of principles of faith to the God. Jews follow the Christians next.

And please do not say something about Muslims, even an idiot will know that some of them are complete bigots and really out of their religion for purpose.

That's more of a "West" problem than a Christian problem specifically.

How do you explain Japan’s low birth rate then?

[Tarsonis]

That's more of a "West" problem than a Christian problem specifically.

How do you explain Japan’s low birth rate then?

Social Awkwardness

[Prima Scriptura]

How do you explain Japan’s low birth rate then?

Social Awkwardness

I mean, you just can’t blame it on neet incels…right?

[Duvniask]

That's more of a "West" problem than a Christian problem specifically.

How do you explain Japan’s low birth rate then?

While I realise it would be straying too far from the topic of this thread, the reasons that are present in Japan are similar to the ones present across the entire developed world, especially among the more religious, familialist and patriarchal countries of the bunch. Particularly the shafting of working women, in a time of female labor participation being the norm, is a cause of the uniquely low fertility rates one observes in East Asian countries along with Southern, Central and Eastern Europe. Northern and Western Europe gets off easier because of welfare policies designed to mitigate the work life balance, but there is still work to be done on that front also.

Essentially, when Salus Maior says "The West", Japan can be grouped in with the bunch.

[Duvniask]

How do you explain Japan’s low birth rate then?

Social Awkwardness

Literally the worst meme-tier explanation ever. Up there with people blaming hentai.

[Sordhau]

Social Awkwardness

Literally the worst meme-tier explanation ever. Up there with people blaming hentai.

They all swore a blood-pact to destroy their own country, crippling the global economy in the process to exact revenge for their defeat in WWII.

This is the only logical explanation.

[Tarsonis]

Social Awkwardness

Literally the worst meme-tier explanation ever. Up there with people blaming hentai.

except for the fact that it's largely true.

[Uiiop]

Literally the worst meme-tier explanation ever. Up there with people blaming hentai.

except for the fact that it's largely true.

Being more social means being able to talk about unions so i guess that's true.

[Duvniask]

Literally the worst meme-tier explanation ever. Up there with people blaming hentai.

except for the fact that it's largely true.

No. This is the kind of nonsense that serious-minded people do not entertain.

[Tarsonis]

except for the fact that it's largely true.

No. This is the kind of nonsense that serious-minded people do not entertain.

And this dismissal is the kind of nonsense you get from someone blowing smoke up their own hindparts. You try to handwave it away all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that it is a factor. It's not the only factor sure, but it's a factor non the less. Between awkward social relations, heavy work weeks, negative views of marriage in younger generations, and the availability of pornography and legal prostitution, it's fairly obvious why men and women rarely interact.

Roughly half the population doesn't copulate regularly, and 2/5ths of men under 40 are virgins. Men are increasingly more likely to find companionship through alternative means than through dating. Call it whatever you want, but social awkwardness is basically what it is.

Japan isn't a Christian nation, and has pretty casual moods toward sex. It's trends rivaling other western countries is evidence that Christianity is not the cause of declining birthrates, rather other socioeconomic factors are at play.

[Prima Scriptura]

Social Awkwardness

Literally the worst meme-tier explanation ever. Up there with people blaming hentai.

I mean, I can partially blame yaoi hentai for my social awareness. When I discovered rule 34 applied to the animes I grew up watching….yeah…. I wasn’t really interested in dating… I’m still not interested.

[Sordhau]

Question: how is one supposed to "honor thy father and thy mother" when one abandoned you before you were even born and the other is highly judgemental and controlling to a toxic degree and constitutes the single biggest source of stress in your life through their constant paranoia and negativity?

[The free romanians]

Question: how is one supposed to "honor thy father and thy mother" when one abandoned you before you were even born and the other is highly judgemental and controlling to a toxic degree and constitutes the single biggest source of stress in your life through their constant paranoia and negativity?

1
Ask a priest/someone more capable to be a shepherd
2
Pray for them and try to lead by example
Most importantly try 1

[Lord Dominator]

Question: how is one supposed to "honor thy father and thy mother" when one abandoned you before you were even born and the other is highly judgemental and controlling to a toxic degree and constitutes the single biggest source of stress in your life through their constant paranoia and negativity?

I personally seem to recall something about an implied “where reasonable/not abusive/whatever” and in general that they’re acting as good parents to be honored. Don’t remember where that’s from though.

[Duvniask]

No. This is the kind of nonsense that serious-minded people do not entertain.

And this dismissal is the kind of nonsense you get from someone blowing smoke up their own hindparts. You try to handwave it away all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that it is a factor. It's not the only factor sure, but it's a factor non the less. Between awkward social relations, heavy work weeks, negative views of marriage in younger generations, and the availability of pornography and legal prostitution, it's fairly obvious why men and women rarely interact.

Roughly half the population doesn't copulate regularly, and 2/5ths of men under 40 are virgins. Men are increasingly more likely to find companionship through alternative means than through dating. Call it whatever you want, but social awkwardness is basically what it is.

Nothing of what you said suggests social awkwardness, i.e. lack of social skills and the idea that Japanese men and women don't know how to communicate properly. The availability of pornography and prostitution is not unique to Japan and never has been. Far more prominent explanations are the decline of job security for the young, and the continued prominence of patriarchal gender relations in both the public and private sphere which exert downward pressure on working mothers and fathers. And, as you mention the heavy workload.

The low birth rate is caused by a collapse of the traditional male breadwinner family model, with a lack of institutional re-alignment to make up for this. The collapse in social relations between men and women is tied to the pervasiveness of the old norms - the expectation is still to find women who are (more or less) willing and able to let go of their careers to become housewives, along with finding men who are capable of supporting the family as the primary breadwinner. It is a society of uncertain expectations and norms, maladapted institutions and super heavy exploitation of the workforce. To suggest it comes down to men and women just being socially inept is ridiculous. This social ineptitude, to the extent that it exists, is more of an effect of these other factors, which are ultimately the ones preventing family formation and thus, births.

Many women forego marriage and relationships for the above reasons, because family life would be a burden for them, especially when they are going to be subject to the "double shift" of both working and being a housewife who takes care of the children. And then there are many men who forego marriage because they cannot live up to the standards expected of them either. That is also why, in studies of virginity, it is actually those men with permanent full-time employment that show up as having more sex, whereas men with less income and less connection to the job market are far more likely to be virgins.

Japan isn't a Christian nation, and has pretty casual moods toward sex. It's trends rivaling other western countries is evidence that Christianity is not the cause of declining birthrates, rather other socioeconomic factors are at play.

It's not as simple. Christianity is connected to a decline in birth rates to the extent that it is tied up with patriarchal and familialist values, which are increasingly inapplicable (and destructive) in our modern society where both parents are required to work and have stable incomes to support a family. It's one the reasons why you find, in Southern and Eastern Europe, despite their seemingly greater religiosity, lower birth rates and a dearth of family formation compared to the less religious and more gender egalitarian societies of Western and Northern Europe.