Christian Discussion Thread XII: Soter? I hardly know her!

[Dylar]

If that's the case, then might I recommend the Latin Vulgate?

Is there an online version?

Yep, there's an online one right here

Regardless, Latin's Google Translate is iffy at best and I don't speak it. Latin? More like Craptin (Image)

Say what you will about Latin, but at least this one has all the books the Church included

[Kowani]

they're very deserved complaints

Still haven't forgiven Teutoburg Forest, huh?

Wrong Latin
We gave the empire Trajan, not Augustus

they're very deserved complaints

What's wrong, Kowani? You don't want to be a part of the Donaudampfschifffahrtselektrizitätenhauptbetriebswerkbauunterbeamtengesellschaft?

…this should be a crime

-_-
you don't say

It really isn't that hard if you know German. Sorry.

That’s entirely alright

[Atheris]

What's wrong, Kowani? You don't want to be a part of the Donaudampfschifffahrtselektrizitätenhauptbetriebswerkbauunterbeamtengesellschaft?

…this should be a crime:

Don't worry. It's easy! Don-ow-damp-f-shif-farts-elec-tritsi-tayten-how-pt-beh-treebs-verk-baun-ter-beam-ten-ge-sell-schaft.

If you're in the government, though, you can pass the Donaudampfschifffahrtselektrizitätenhauptbetriebswerkbauunterbeamtengesellschafttikettierungsüberwachungsaufgabenübertragungsgesetz!

[Loeje]

What's wrong, Kowani? You don't want to be a part of the Donaudampfschifffahrtselektrizitätenhauptbetriebswerkbauunterbeamtengesellschaft?

…this should be a crime

You just have to separate the words, that's all.

[Kowani]

…this should be a crime:

Don't worry. It's easy! Don-ow-damp-f-shif-farts-elec-tritsi-tayten-how-pt-beh-treebs-verk-baun-ter-beam-ten-ge-sell-schaft.

If you're in the government, though, you can pass the Donaudampfschifffahrtselektrizitätenhauptbetriebswerkbauunterbeamtengesellschafttikettierungsüberwachungsaufgabenübertragungsgesetz!

and just like that we're done

…this should be a crime

You just have to separate the words, that's all.

do you see the problem here

[Salus Maior]

Don't worry. It's easy! Don-ow-damp-f-shif-farts-elec-tritsi-tayten-how-pt-beh-treebs-verk-baun-ter-beam-ten-ge-sell-schaft.

If you're in the government, though, you can pass the Donaudampfschifffahrtselektrizitätenhauptbetriebswerkbauunterbeamtengesellschafttikettierungsüberwachungsaufgabenübertragungsgesetz!

and just like that we're done

You just have to separate the words, that's all.

do you see the problem here

How do you feel about Welsh, Kowani?

[Kowani]

and just like that we're done


do you see the problem here

How do you feel about Welsh, Kowani?

it's funny
nightmare to look at
but funny

[Loeje]

You just have to separate the words, that's all.

do you see the problem here

No, I don't. It's a good language.

[The Archregimancy]

Still haven't forgiven Teutoburg Forest, huh?

Wrong Latin
We gave the empire Trajan, not Augustus

And Hadrian; but in this particular thread, I think you might find it more expedient to take credit for Theodosius I, who was born in Cauca - what's now Coca, about halfway between Segovia and Valladolid. While his father Count Theodosius [the Elder] had a career that famously took him across the western half of the empire, from Britannia to Mauretania, it's clear that the family's main estates were in modern Spain.

[Atheris]

I'm not a Lutheran. I've been non-denominational since 2019.

Makes sense. Do you agree with the five solas though? And what brought you to believe that Jesus is Lord?

Bro, I don't even know what the five solas are. And... I guess I just... did?

[Atheris]

I'm not a Lutheran. I've been non-denominational since 2019.

Makes sense. Do you agree with the five solas though? And what brought you to believe that Jesus is Lord?

Bro, I don't even know what the five solas are. And... I guess I just... did?

[Kowani]

do you see the problem here

No, I don't. It's a good language.

that's not what i'm talking about

Wrong Latin
We gave the empire Trajan, not Augustus

And Hadrian; but in this particular thread, I think you might find it more expedient to take credit for Theodosius I, who was born in Cauca - what's now Coca, about halfway between Segovia and Valladolid. While his father Count Theodosius [the Elder] had a career that famously took him across the western half of the empire, from Britannia to Mauretania, it's clear that the family's main estates were in modern Spain.

the chain of spanish state religion makes a lot more sense now

[Dylar]

Makes sense. Do you agree with the five solas though? And what brought you to believe that Jesus is Lord?

Bro, I don't even know what the five solas are. And... I guess I just... did?

The five solae are: Sola Fide (by faith alone), Sola Scriptura (by Scripture alone), Sola Gratia (by grace alone), Solus Christus (through Christ alone), and Soli Deo Gloria (glory to God alone).

Sola Scriptura teaches that Scripture should govern the Church and that traditions and interpretations are below Scripture. Sola Scriptura asserts that the Bible can and is to be interpreted through itself, with one area of Scripture being useful for interpreting others

Sola Fide asserts that good works are not a means or requisite for salvation. Sola fide is the teaching that justification (interpreted in the Lutheran and Reformed theologies as "being declared just by God") is received by faith alone, without any need for good works on the part of the individual. In classical Lutheran and Reformed theologies, good works are seen to be evidence of saving faith, but the good works themselves do not determine salvation.

Sola Gratia specifically excludes the merit done by a person as part of achieving salvation. Sola gratia is the teaching that salvation comes by divine grace or "unmerited favor" only, not as something merited by the sinner. This means that salvation is an unearned gift from God for Jesus's sake.

Solus Christus excludes the priestly class as necessary for sacraments. Solus Christus is the teaching that Christ is the only mediator between God and man, and that there is salvation through no other.

Soli Deo Gloria stands in opposition to the veneration perceived by many to be present in the Roman Catholic Church of Mary the mother of Jesus, the saints, or angels. Soli Deo gloria is the teaching that all glory is to be due to God alone, since salvation is accomplished solely through his will and action – not only the gift of the all-sufficient atonement of Jesus on the cross but also the gift of faith in that atonement, created in the heart of the believer by the Holy Spirit. The reformers believed that human beings – even saints canonized by the Roman Catholic Church, the popes, and the ecclesiastical hierarchy – are not worthy of the glory that was accorded them; that is, one should not exalt such humans for their good works, but rather praise and give glory to God who is the author and sanctifier of these people and their good works.

[Tarsonis]

Bro, I don't even know what the five solas are. And... I guess I just... did?

The five solae are: Sola Fide (by faith alone), Sola Scriptura (by Scripture alone), Sola Gratia (by grace alone), Solus Christus (through Christ alone), and Soli Deo Gloria (glory to God alone).

Sola Scriptura teaches that Scripture should govern the Church and that traditions and interpretations are below Scripture. Sola Scriptura asserts that the Bible can and is to be interpreted through itself, with one area of Scripture being useful for interpreting others

Sola Fide asserts that good works are not a means or requisite for salvation. Sola fide is the teaching that justification (interpreted in the Lutheran and Reformed theologies as "being declared just by God") is received by faith alone, without any need for good works on the part of the individual. In classical Lutheran and Reformed theologies, good works are seen to be evidence of saving faith, but the good works themselves do not determine salvation.

Sola Gratia specifically excludes the merit done by a person as part of achieving salvation. Sola gratia is the teaching that salvation comes by divine grace or "unmerited favor" only, not as something merited by the sinner. This means that salvation is an unearned gift from God for Jesus's sake.

Solus Christus excludes the priestly class as necessary for sacraments. Solus Christus is the teaching that Christ is the only mediator between God and man, and that there is salvation through no other.

Soli Deo Gloria stands in opposition to the veneration perceived by many to be present in the Roman Catholic Church of Mary the mother of Jesus, the saints, or angels. Soli Deo gloria is the teaching that all glory is to be due to God alone, since salvation is accomplished solely through his will and action – not only the gift of the all-sufficient atonement of Jesus on the cross but also the gift of faith in that atonement, created in the heart of the believer by the Holy Spirit. The reformers believed that human beings – even saints canonized by the Roman Catholic Church, the popes, and the ecclesiastical hierarchy – are not worthy of the glory that was accorded them; that is, one should not exalt such humans for their good works, but rather praise and give glory to God who is the author and sanctifier of these people and their good works.

[Lady Victory]

Bro, I don't even know what the five solas are. And... I guess I just... did?

The five solae are: Sola Fide (by faith alone), Sola Scriptura (by Scripture alone), Sola Gratia (by grace alone), Solus Christus (through Christ alone), and Soli Deo Gloria (glory to God alone).

Sola Scriptura teaches that Scripture should govern the Church and that traditions and interpretations are below Scripture. Sola Scriptura asserts that the Bible can and is to be interpreted through itself, with one area of Scripture being useful for interpreting others

Sola Fide asserts that good works are not a means or requisite for salvation. Sola fide is the teaching that justification (interpreted in the Lutheran and Reformed theologies as "being declared just by God") is received by faith alone, without any need for good works on the part of the individual. In classical Lutheran and Reformed theologies, good works are seen to be evidence of saving faith, but the good works themselves do not determine salvation.

Sola Gratia specifically excludes the merit done by a person as part of achieving salvation. Sola gratia is the teaching that salvation comes by divine grace or "unmerited favor" only, not as something merited by the sinner. This means that salvation is an unearned gift from God for Jesus's sake.

Solus Christus excludes the priestly class as necessary for sacraments. Solus Christus is the teaching that Christ is the only mediator between God and man, and that there is salvation through no other.

Soli Deo Gloria stands in opposition to the veneration perceived by many to be present in the Roman Catholic Church of Mary the mother of Jesus, the saints, or angels. Soli Deo gloria is the teaching that all glory is to be due to God alone, since salvation is accomplished solely through his will and action – not only the gift of the all-sufficient atonement of Jesus on the cross but also the gift of faith in that atonement, created in the heart of the believer by the Holy Spirit. The reformers believed that human beings – even saints canonized by the Roman Catholic Church, the popes, and the ecclesiastical hierarchy – are not worthy of the glory that was accorded them; that is, one should not exalt such humans for their good works, but rather praise and give glory to God who is the author and sanctifier of these people and their good works.

Golly gee Dylar, I dunno, that all sounds kinda heretical to me.

[Atheris]

Bro, I don't even know what the five solas are. And... I guess I just... did?

The five solae are: Sola Fide (by faith alone), Sola Scriptura (by Scripture alone), Sola Gratia (by grace alone), Solus Christus (through Christ alone), and Soli Deo Gloria (glory to God alone).

Sola Scriptura teaches that Scripture should govern the Church and that traditions and interpretations are below Scripture. Sola Scriptura asserts that the Bible can and is to be interpreted through itself, with one area of Scripture being useful for interpreting others

Sola Fide asserts that good works are not a means or requisite for salvation. Sola fide is the teaching that justification (interpreted in the Lutheran and Reformed theologies as "being declared just by God") is received by faith alone, without any need for good works on the part of the individual. In classical Lutheran and Reformed theologies, good works are seen to be evidence of saving faith, but the good works themselves do not determine salvation.

Sola Gratia specifically excludes the merit done by a person as part of achieving salvation. Sola gratia is the teaching that salvation comes by divine grace or "unmerited favor" only, not as something merited by the sinner. This means that salvation is an unearned gift from God for Jesus's sake.

Solus Christus excludes the priestly class as necessary for sacraments. Solus Christus is the teaching that Christ is the only mediator between God and man, and that there is salvation through no other.

Soli Deo Gloria stands in opposition to the veneration perceived by many to be present in the Roman Catholic Church of Mary the mother of Jesus, the saints, or angels. Soli Deo gloria is the teaching that all glory is to be due to God alone, since salvation is accomplished solely through his will and action – not only the gift of the all-sufficient atonement of Jesus on the cross but also the gift of faith in that atonement, created in the heart of the believer by the Holy Spirit. The reformers believed that human beings – even saints canonized by the Roman Catholic Church, the popes, and the ecclesiastical hierarchy – are not worthy of the glory that was accorded them; that is, one should not exalt such humans for their good works, but rather praise and give glory to God who is the author and sanctifier of these people and their good works.

>not catholic
instantly based

[Lady Victory]

The five solae are: Sola Fide (by faith alone), Sola Scriptura (by Scripture alone), Sola Gratia (by grace alone), Solus Christus (through Christ alone), and Soli Deo Gloria (glory to God alone).

Sola Scriptura teaches that Scripture should govern the Church and that traditions and interpretations are below Scripture. Sola Scriptura asserts that the Bible can and is to be interpreted through itself, with one area of Scripture being useful for interpreting others

Sola Fide asserts that good works are not a means or requisite for salvation. Sola fide is the teaching that justification (interpreted in the Lutheran and Reformed theologies as "being declared just by God") is received by faith alone, without any need for good works on the part of the individual. In classical Lutheran and Reformed theologies, good works are seen to be evidence of saving faith, but the good works themselves do not determine salvation.

Sola Gratia specifically excludes the merit done by a person as part of achieving salvation. Sola gratia is the teaching that salvation comes by divine grace or "unmerited favor" only, not as something merited by the sinner. This means that salvation is an unearned gift from God for Jesus's sake.

Solus Christus excludes the priestly class as necessary for sacraments. Solus Christus is the teaching that Christ is the only mediator between God and man, and that there is salvation through no other.

Soli Deo Gloria stands in opposition to the veneration perceived by many to be present in the Roman Catholic Church of Mary the mother of Jesus, the saints, or angels. Soli Deo gloria is the teaching that all glory is to be due to God alone, since salvation is accomplished solely through his will and action – not only the gift of the all-sufficient atonement of Jesus on the cross but also the gift of faith in that atonement, created in the heart of the believer by the Holy Spirit. The reformers believed that human beings – even saints canonized by the Roman Catholic Church, the popes, and the ecclesiastical hierarchy – are not worthy of the glory that was accorded them; that is, one should not exalt such humans for their good works, but rather praise and give glory to God who is the author and sanctifier of these people and their good works.

>not catholic
instantly based

Yes, but it's Protestant which means it's instantly cringe and the basedness is cancelled out.

[Atheris]

>not catholic
instantly based

Yes, but it's Protestant which means it's instantly cringe and the basedness is cancelled out.

i mean, it could be worse. it could be *shudders* God worshipping society

[Dylar]

The five solae are: Sola Fide (by faith alone), Sola Scriptura (by Scripture alone), Sola Gratia (by grace alone), Solus Christus (through Christ alone), and Soli Deo Gloria (glory to God alone).

Sola Scriptura teaches that Scripture should govern the Church and that traditions and interpretations are below Scripture. Sola Scriptura asserts that the Bible can and is to be interpreted through itself, with one area of Scripture being useful for interpreting others

Sola Fide asserts that good works are not a means or requisite for salvation. Sola fide is the teaching that justification (interpreted in the Lutheran and Reformed theologies as "being declared just by God") is received by faith alone, without any need for good works on the part of the individual. In classical Lutheran and Reformed theologies, good works are seen to be evidence of saving faith, but the good works themselves do not determine salvation.

Sola Gratia specifically excludes the merit done by a person as part of achieving salvation. Sola gratia is the teaching that salvation comes by divine grace or "unmerited favor" only, not as something merited by the sinner. This means that salvation is an unearned gift from God for Jesus's sake.

Solus Christus excludes the priestly class as necessary for sacraments. Solus Christus is the teaching that Christ is the only mediator between God and man, and that there is salvation through no other.

Soli Deo Gloria stands in opposition to the veneration perceived by many to be present in the Roman Catholic Church of Mary the mother of Jesus, the saints, or angels. Soli Deo gloria is the teaching that all glory is to be due to God alone, since salvation is accomplished solely through his will and action – not only the gift of the all-sufficient atonement of Jesus on the cross but also the gift of faith in that atonement, created in the heart of the believer by the Holy Spirit. The reformers believed that human beings – even saints canonized by the Roman Catholic Church, the popes, and the ecclesiastical hierarchy – are not worthy of the glory that was accorded them; that is, one should not exalt such humans for their good works, but rather praise and give glory to God who is the author and sanctifier of these people and their good works.

Golly gee Dylar, I dunno, that all sounds kinda heretical to me.

It is. Dont worry theres no way I'd believe in that heretical drivel

[Suriyanakhon]

The five solae are: Sola Fide (by faith alone), Sola Scriptura (by Scripture alone), Sola Gratia (by grace alone), Solus Christus (through Christ alone), and Soli Deo Gloria (glory to God alone).

Sola Scriptura teaches that Scripture should govern the Church and that traditions and interpretations are below Scripture. Sola Scriptura asserts that the Bible can and is to be interpreted through itself, with one area of Scripture being useful for interpreting others

Sola Fide asserts that good works are not a means or requisite for salvation. Sola fide is the teaching that justification (interpreted in the Lutheran and Reformed theologies as "being declared just by God") is received by faith alone, without any need for good works on the part of the individual. In classical Lutheran and Reformed theologies, good works are seen to be evidence of saving faith, but the good works themselves do not determine salvation.

Sola Gratia specifically excludes the merit done by a person as part of achieving salvation. Sola gratia is the teaching that salvation comes by divine grace or "unmerited favor" only, not as something merited by the sinner. This means that salvation is an unearned gift from God for Jesus's sake.

Solus Christus excludes the priestly class as necessary for sacraments. Solus Christus is the teaching that Christ is the only mediator between God and man, and that there is salvation through no other.

Soli Deo Gloria stands in opposition to the veneration perceived by many to be present in the Roman Catholic Church of Mary the mother of Jesus, the saints, or angels. Soli Deo gloria is the teaching that all glory is to be due to God alone, since salvation is accomplished solely through his will and action – not only the gift of the all-sufficient atonement of Jesus on the cross but also the gift of faith in that atonement, created in the heart of the believer by the Holy Spirit. The reformers believed that human beings – even saints canonized by the Roman Catholic Church, the popes, and the ecclesiastical hierarchy – are not worthy of the glory that was accorded them; that is, one should not exalt such humans for their good works, but rather praise and give glory to God who is the author and sanctifier of these people and their good works.

Tars RN.

[Neanderthaland]

This kind of confuses me, why did all of humanity do it and not just the specific people of 1st century CE Judea?

Christ died not for the people of 1st century AD Judea, but for all people for all times.

Yeah, but even if he died for me. I didn't nail him.

And I would have spoken out against his execution if I had been able to.

[Suriyanakhon]

Christ died not for the people of 1st century AD Judea, but for all people for all times.

Yeah, but even if he died for me. I didn't nail him.

And I would have spoken out against his execution if I had been able to.

This. I really doubt I'd have wanted to brutally execute some poor guy for essentially nothing, and the idea that I should feel some sense of collective responsibility for it is... just weird to me.

[Lady Victory]

Christ died not for the people of 1st century AD Judea, but for all people for all times.

Yeah, but even if he died for me. I didn't nail him.

And I would have spoken out against his execution if I had been able to.

Yeah, but even if he died for me. I didn't nail him.

And I would have spoken out against his execution if I had been able to.

This. I really doubt I'd have wanted to brutally execute some poor guy for essentially nothing, and the idea that I should feel some sense of collective responsibility for it is... just weird to me.

Okay so from what I can gather I think it has less to do with what you, personally, would have done in that situation so much as would you, collectively, were capable of. With knowledge of good and evil comes the ability to choose between good and evil, and as original sin involved early Man obtaining knowledge of good and evil the crucifixion was naturally a result of this. Without knowledge of good and evil Jesus would not have been condemned as His death (or even birth, for that matter) would not have been necessary. It was the ability of Men to consciously choose evil that led to Christ's crucifixion, and thus Mankind as a whole is responsible for having fallen so far from God's grace that they could obtain knowledge of good and evil; and thus have the ability to choose evil actions. It's not that you, personally, are responsible for much as humanity, collectively, is responsible. The human species as a whole--irregardless of the individuals that make up our species--is responsible as our fall from grace was largely our own doing even if we were initially deceived.

I think that's what they're trying to say, anyway. That's the impression I got. Maybe I'm understanding this wrong, please correct me if I am.

[Lord Dominator]

Golly gee Dylar, I dunno, that all sounds kinda heretical to me.

It is. Dont worry theres no way I'd believe in that heretical drivel

Boo, hiss



Incidentally, saying that what’s his name with the Taiping claimed to be Jesus’ brother is actually understating the situation - my understanding is that he was doing that by replacing the Holy Spirit with himself in the Trinity (which he was almost certainly getting wrong).

[Neanderthaland]

Yeah, but even if he died for me. I didn't nail him.

And I would have spoken out against his execution if I had been able to.

This. I really doubt I'd have wanted to brutally execute some poor guy for essentially nothing, and the idea that I should feel some sense of collective responsibility for it is... just weird to me.

Okay so from what I can gather I think it has less to do with what you, personally, would have done in that situation so much as would you, collectively, were capable of. With knowledge of good and evil comes the ability to choose between good and evil, and as original sin involved early Man obtaining knowledge of good and evil the crucifixion was naturally a result of this. Without knowledge of good and evil Jesus would not have been condemned as His death (or even birth, for that matter) would not have been necessary. It was the ability of Men to consciously choose evil that led to Christ's crucifixion, and thus Mankind as a whole is responsible for having fallen so far from God's grace that they could obtain knowledge of good and evil; and thus have the ability to choose evil actions. It's not that you, personally, are responsible for much as humanity, collectively, is responsible. The human species as a whole--irregardless of the individuals that make up our species--is responsible as our fall from grace was largely our own doing even if we were initially deceived.

I think that's what they're trying to say, anyway. That's the impression I got. Maybe I'm understanding this wrong, please correct me if I am.

What you describe is original sin, not deicide.