Christian Discussion Thread XII: Soter? I hardly know her!

[Punished UMN]

For simplicity sake, I'm only counting what came about from the first split that ever happened or what existed previously to that event. When Christianity began, there was the Roman empire, but the Roman empire gradually divided into western and eastern halves over time. With the western half not surviving intact as long as the Eastern portion.

The first three main centers for Christianity were supposedly Rome, Alexandria, or Antioch.

This really isn't accurate and I don't just mean showing the RCC as before the Orthodox Church but also with regard to the lineages of the parts on the Anglican part.

[Lord Dominator]

I am amused that apparently we Lutherans are very unique (having our own color) compared to everyone else on your chart.

Also, a family tree structure really isn’t a good visual, since it implies death and a lack of crossmingling.

[Salus Maior]

One TLM parishoners thoughts on the TLM restrictions and the course of Church politics.

I think his testimony reflects a lot of what we traditionalists care about when it comes to the Mass, and why we're anxious about what's happening now.

[Sundiata]

I am amused that apparently we Lutherans are very unique (having our own color) compared to everyone else on your chart.

Yes.

Also, a family tree structure really isn’t a good visual, since it implies death and a lack of crossmingling.

Maybe, but I think that the chart presents, generally speaking, a denominationally accurate timeline.

[Sundiata]

This really isn't accurate and I don't just mean showing the RCC as before the Orthodox Church

It is accurate. And furthermore, the Holy Spirit does precede from the Father and the Son. The church in the West responded to contrary heresy with the filioque so that the full divinity of the Holy Spirit is affirmed more explicitly. After all, in the farewell discourse of John chapter's 15 and 16, both the Father and Son send the Holy Spirit.

[Hispida]

For simplicity sake, I'm only counting what came about from the first split that ever happened or what existed previously to that event. When Christianity began, there was the Roman empire, but the Roman empire gradually divided into western and eastern halves over time. With the western half not surviving intact as long as the Eastern portion.

The first three main centers for Christianity were supposedly Rome, Alexandria, or Antioch.

Ah, Westboro isn't on here. Perfect.

[Salus Maior]

This really isn't accurate and I don't just mean showing the RCC as before the Orthodox Church

It is accurate.

He means the protestant section isn't accurate.

I mean, most of those denominations didn't come from Anglicanism.

[Sundiata]

It is accurate.

He means the protestant section isn't accurate.

I mean, most of those denominations didn't come from Anglicanism.

But Anglicanism at least preceded them, no?

[Lower Nubia]

For simplicity sake, I'm only counting what came about from the first split that ever happened or what existed previously to that event. When Christianity began, there was the Roman empire, but the Roman empire gradually divided into western and eastern halves over time. With the western half not surviving intact as long as the Eastern portion.

The first three main centers for Christianity were supposedly Rome, Alexandria, or Antioch.

I like the fact that this makes the Anglicans the spawns of the wacky Protestant sects.

We truly do know them by their fruit.

[Lower Nubia]

He means the protestant section isn't accurate.

I mean, most of those denominations didn't come from Anglicanism.

But Anglicanism at least preceded them, no?

The chart is inaccurate in that Roman Catholics did not proceed the Orthodox. They split equally at the same time from each other. Likewise the Coptic Church split prior to the orthodox split, which here looks like the same time as the Orthodox did, it should be chalcedonian Christianity after the Coptic split and then diverge into orthodox and catholic. Most Protestant splits have no defined parent church, rather they branch out from common ideas circling at the time and form across denomination lines.

[Punished UMN]

He means the protestant section isn't accurate.

I mean, most of those denominations didn't come from Anglicanism.

But Anglicanism at least preceded them, no?

Yes, but just because something came before another thing doesn't mean one is descended from the other.

[Sundiata]

But Anglicanism at least preceded them, no?

Yes, but just because something came before another thing doesn't mean one is descended from the other.

Fair, but do you concede that the Catholic Church preceded the Orthodox Church? Were there not Popes before the Great Schism?

[Lord Dominator]

Yes, but just because something came before another thing doesn't mean one is descended from the other.

Fair, but do you concede that the Catholic Church preceded the Orthodox Church? Were there not Popes before the Great Schism?

Were there not Patriarchs of Constantinople (among others) before the Great Schism?

[Sundiata]

Fair, but do you concede that the Catholic Church preceded the Orthodox Church? Were there not Popes before the Great Schism?

Were there not Patriarchs of Constantinople (among others) before the Great Schism?

There were, the first being Saint John Chrysostom who was subordinate to the Pope.

[Tarsonis]

can we not?

[Sundiata]

can we not?

Okay, okay.

Eastern Orthodox members, if you'd like to have this discussion over telegrams please send me a message because I'm eager to learn more about your position.

[Punished UMN]

Yes, but just because something came before another thing doesn't mean one is descended from the other.

Fair, but do you concede that the Catholic Church preceded the Orthodox Church? Were there not Popes before the Great Schism?

All of the Apostolic Churches arose in the middle 1st century and eventually evolved into the state church of the Roman Empire, which would later fragment into the Coptic, Orthodox, and Latin churches, which would then evolve in their own directions.

[Immortan Khan]

Yes, but just because something came before another thing doesn't mean one is descended from the other.

Fair, but do you concede that the Catholic Church preceded the Orthodox Church? Were there not Popes before the Great Schism?

This just shows how lacking you are on Orthodox views towards the seat of the Bishop of Rome. Don't forget that for a time, the Byzantine Emperors decided who got to be the Bishop of Rome.

[Immortan Khan]

Were there not Patriarchs of Constantinople (among others) before the Great Schism?

There were, the first being Saint John Chrysostom who was subordinate to the Pope.

The seat in Constantinople goes all the way back to Andrew the Apostle. Further, Saint John Chrysostom wasn't the first to hold the title of Patriarch of Constantinople, that was Saint Anatolius.

[Tarsonis]

Once again, can we not?

[Immortan Khan]

Also for the record, the word that would evolve into "Pope" was used for every bishop in early Christianity especially in the Eastern half of the Roman Empire. In the West, over centuries this eventually was reserved for the Bishop of Rome and it wasn't made official until like the 11th or 12th century. The earliest recorded usage is in reference to the Patriarch of Alexandria (can't remember which one) in the 3rd century.

[Lord Dominator]

Once again, can we not?

At this point, I suspect not

[Sundiata]

Fair, but do you concede that the Catholic Church preceded the Orthodox Church? Were there not Popes before the Great Schism?

This just shows how lacking you are on Orthodox views towards the seat of the Bishop of Rome. Don't forget that for a time, the Byzantine Emperors decided who got to be the Bishop of Rome.

That makes sense, so that's why political leaders have so much sway in national Orthodox churches?

[Sundiata]

There were, the first being Saint John Chrysostom who was subordinate to the Pope.

The seat in Constantinople goes all the way back to Andrew the Apostle. Further, Saint John Chrysostom wasn't the first to hold the title of Patriarch of Constantinople, that was Saint Anatolius.

I believe you but I'm going to verify. If I'm wrong on this I have many more questions, thank you for being a good sport as well.

[Sundiata]

Once again, can we not?

At this point, I suspect not

It's going well so far, I'm learning about a theological stance I don't know much about and we're being pretty civil.