Christian Discussion Thread XII: Soter? I hardly know her!

[Lower Nubia]

Of course we still can and will. But the first question they’ll ask: “didn’t you lot kill all those kids in that school?” And yes the Church in that area did. That is already on top of people’s lack of desire to automatically associate religion as the natural state, as it was 100 years ago. Today, atheism is the default state and that on top of everything else has to be overcome.

Atheism is definitely not the default state in the United States. Maybe Western and Northern Europe.

The default does not mean the number of adherents. It refers to a material outlook on the world. Western societies have that outlook as default. That’s why it effects younger people, who have a more material perception of the universe (which should not be confused with consumerism).

[Sundiata]

We can evangelize, we can produce good fruit, but there are those who will deny our Messiah as there always have been. Nonetheless, we have to remain open to those that do. The church was composed of only twelve people. We're now at least a billion strong.

Stay close to your church and don't let anyone rip you away. You'll find joy there.

Of course we still can and will. But the first question they’ll ask: “didn’t you lot kill all those kids in that school?” And yes the Church in that area did. That is already on top of people’s lack of desire to automatically associate religion as the natural state, as it was 100 years ago. Today, atheism is the default state and that on top of everything else has to be overcome.

Everything is possible for anyone who has faith. The words are Christ's.

We have to say to him with the Apostles: "Increase my faith and the faith of others."

When you hear your success being applauded, let there also sound in your ears the laughter you provoked with your failures.

[Lower Nubia]

Of course we still can and will. But the first question they’ll ask: “didn’t you lot kill all those kids in that school?” And yes the Church in that area did. That is already on top of people’s lack of desire to automatically associate religion as the natural state, as it was 100 years ago. Today, atheism is the default state and that on top of everything else has to be overcome.

Everything is possible for anyone who has faith. The words are Christ's.

We have to say to him with the Apostles: "Increase my faith and the faith of others."

When you hear your success being applauded, let there also sound in your ears the laughter you provoked with your failures.

Yes, everything is possible. That does not make this possible a reality, only a possibility. We know faith can move mountains, and when was the last time we saw a mountain move?

[Sundiata]

Everything is possible for anyone who has faith. The words are Christ's.

We have to say to him with the Apostles: "Increase my faith and the faith of others."

When you hear your success being applauded, let there also sound in your ears the laughter you provoked with your failures.

Yes, everything is possible. That does not make this possible a reality, only a possibility. We know faith can move mountains, and when was the last time we saw a mountain move?

This is still the age of miracles: we too would work them if we had faith. The lake of Genesareth had denied its fishes to Peter's nets. A whole night in vain.

Then, obedient, he lowered his net again to the water and they caught 'a huge number of fish'. Believe me: the miracle is repeated each day.

[Lower Nubia]

Yes, everything is possible. That does not make this possible a reality, only a possibility. We know faith can move mountains, and when was the last time we saw a mountain move?

This is still the age of miracles: we too would work them if we had faith. The lake of Genesareth had denied its fishes to Peter's nets. A whole night in vain.

Then, obedient, he lowered his net again to the water and they caught 'a huge number of fish'. Believe me: the miracle is repeated each day.

This is a trap. Peter had faith, and lowered his net. The faith was unified with the action, if we just have faith, with no action, nothing will happen - which is what the faith point is - if we have faith, people will come because it is made possible with God - conveniently covering up the need for actual change and action on our part. The Church prefers cover up, because it believes that it will fade from memory, whereas if it is revealed it will damage the churches reputation. The reality, is that it all comes to surface anyway, and the coverup makes the church complicit with the action - multiplying the scandal and fury at the Church. Honestly, the Church needs to put everything that it can, air everything, even that which is not even involved with the residential schools, everything. Then it needs reforms on all aspects. If it’s all out at once, they’ll be no drip-drip scandals for the next hundred years, each one damaging the Church to each successive generation.

The African continent and all that we have done, is yet to be revealed.

[Sundiata]

This is still the age of miracles: we too would work them if we had faith. The lake of Genesareth had denied its fishes to Peter's nets. A whole night in vain.

Then, obedient, he lowered his net again to the water and they caught 'a huge number of fish'. Believe me: the miracle is repeated each day.

This is a trap. Peter had faith, and lowered his net. The faith was unified with the action, if we just have faith, with no action, nothing will happen - which is what the faith point is - if we have faith, people will come because it is made possible with God - conveniently covering up the need for actual change and action on our part. The Church prefers cover up, because it believes that it will fade from memory, whereas if it is revealed it will damage the churches reputation. The reality, is that it all comes to surface anyway, and the coverup makes the church complicit with the action - multiplying the scandal and fury at the Church. Honestly, the Church needs to put everything that it can, air everything, even that which is not even involved with the residential schools, everything. Then it needs reforms on all aspects. If it’s all out at once, they’ll be no drip-drip scandals for the next hundred years, each one damaging the Church to each successive generation.

The African continent and all that we have done, is yet to be revealed.

You're right that faith without works is dead.

Where I disagree is with the idea that the Catholic Church should open all of its records to the public. We are the laity, the rank and file of God's army. There are some things that we should see but much we should not. What we should be calling for is the defrocking (laicization) and excommunication of all predatory clergy. Also, the excommunication of pro-abortion politicians.

The future of the church is bright.

[Bienenhalde]

Torched church count is up to 15 in Canada now.

Nobody want to say anything, still?

I hope the perpetrators are punished with the utmost severity.

[Sundiata]

Pope Francis voices support for free universal healthcare for all.

[Just-An-Illusion]

Pope Francis voices support for free universal healthcare for all.

Now that's based....

Too bad some of the more right-wingish Protestant groups will see Francis as a "communist" because he advocated for free healthcare.

[Lower Nubia]

Pope Francis voices support for free universal healthcare for all.

Now that's based....

Too bad some of the more right-wingish Protestant groups will see Francis as a "communist" because he advocated for free healthcare.

They already see him as the antichrist, or a potential one anyway.

[Just-An-Illusion]

Now that's based....

Too bad some of the more right-wingish Protestant groups will see Francis as a "communist" because he advocated for free healthcare.

They already see him as the antichrist.

Even worse....

*sigh*

I wished more Protestants respected the Pope.

[North Washington Republic]

Pope Francis voices support for free universal healthcare for all.

Now that's based....

Too bad some of the more right-wingish Protestant groups will see Francis as a "communist" because he advocated for free healthcare.

Lol, I’ve harsher language regarding Francis from right-wing Catholics than from Protestants of any type. Like A LOT more, and some of it is just Donald Trump level of nastiness and vitriol.

[Salus Maior]

Now that's based....

Too bad some of the more right-wingish Protestant groups will see Francis as a "communist" because he advocated for free healthcare.

Lol, I’ve harsher language regarding Francis from right-wing Catholics than from Protestants of any type. Like A LOT more, and some of it is just Donald Trump level of nastiness and vitriol.

I'm a right wing Catholic and I respect his Holiness. Well, probably right-wing.

Not sure where distributism lies on the left-right economic spectrum.

[North Washington Republic]

Lol, I’ve harsher language regarding Francis from right-wing Catholics than from Protestants of any type. Like A LOT more, and some of it is just Donald Trump level of nastiness and vitriol.

I'm a right wing Catholic and I respect his Holiness. Well, probably right-wing.

Not sure where distributism lies on the left-right economic spectrum.

Not all right-wing Catholics hate Pope Francis. Of course not, but when I was a rad trad, I said and heard some horrible things said about Francis that came from right-wing Catholics, even the ones that who didn’t consider themselves SSPX or Sede.
Before Donald Trump, I would have said that distributism would lie on the left. After Trump, I find it very difficult since the right-wing in America are largely no longer in support of Ayn Rand like laissez-faire capitalism, although some of them might think they still are, but that is largely boomers. I’ve found that right-wing zoomers actually like many aspects of distributism.

[Salus Maior]

I'm a right wing Catholic and I respect his Holiness. Well, probably right-wing.

Not sure where distributism lies on the left-right economic spectrum.

Not all right-wing Catholics hate Pope Francis. Of course not, but when I was a rad trad, I said and heard some horrible things said about Francis that came from right-wing Catholics, even the ones that who didn’t consider themselves SSPX or Sede.
Before Donald Trump, I would have said that distributism would lie on the left. After Trump, I find it very difficult since the right-wing in America are largely no longer in support of Ayn Rand like laissez-faire capitalism, although some of them might think they still are, but that is largely boomers. I’ve found that right-wing zoomers actually like many aspects of distributism.

Well, if they're reading Chesterton and other early-mid 20th century Christian authors (as they should) they're going to run into a lot of distributist ideas so that checks out.

Where I question whether it is "right wing" economically is that the goals of distributism are similar to certain forms of socialism, in that it believes that the people should own the means of production (although Distributism frames this as wide ownership of productive property, but this is compatible with things like workers co-ops, which Distributists always praise alongside socialists).

[Lower Nubia]

Lol, I’ve harsher language regarding Francis from right-wing Catholics than from Protestants of any type. Like A LOT more, and some of it is just Donald Trump level of nastiness and vitriol.

I'm a right wing Catholic and I respect his Holiness. Well, probably right-wing.

Not sure where distributism lies on the left-right economic spectrum.

It lies slightly to the left of modern social democracy.

[Lower Nubia]

They already see him as the antichrist.

Even worse....

*sigh*

I wished more Protestants respected the Pope.

It’s actually a good thing. The poisonous groups are easily visible. Subtlety is dangerous, it allows a veneer of credibility while hiding egregious heresy.

[Sundiata]

Pope Francis voices support for free universal healthcare for all.

Now that's based....

Too bad some of the more right-wingish Protestant groups will see Francis as a "communist" because he advocated for free healthcare.

Well, the thing about Pope Francis is that he cares more about being a saint than being politically correct.

[Lower Nubia]

Now that's based....

Too bad some of the more right-wingish Protestant groups will see Francis as a "communist" because he advocated for free healthcare.

Well, the thing about Pope Francis is that he cares more about being a saint than being politically correct.

He hasen’t done anything particularly... sainty... though.

[Salus Maior]

I'm a right wing Catholic and I respect his Holiness. Well, probably right-wing.

Not sure where distributism lies on the left-right economic spectrum.

It lies slightly to the left of modern social democracy.

TFW I'm economically further left of Bernie.

[Lower Nubia]

It lies slightly to the left of modern social democracy.

TFW I'm economically further left of Bernie.

As is tradition.

[Sundiata]

Well, the thing about Pope Francis is that he cares more about being a saint than being politically correct.

He hasen’t done anything particularly... sainty... though.

Adhering to the teachings of the Catholic church is sainty enough.

[Old Tyrannia]

They already see him as the antichrist.

Even worse....

*sigh*

I wished more Protestants respected the Pope.

Why should we respect him? What has he done to deserve it?

Lol, I’ve harsher language regarding Francis from right-wing Catholics than from Protestants of any type. Like A LOT more, and some of it is just Donald Trump level of nastiness and vitriol.

I'm a right wing Catholic and I respect his Holiness. Well, probably right-wing.

Not sure where distributism lies on the left-right economic spectrum.

Distributism, in the form advocated by most contemporary distributists, is basically indistinguishable from market socialism.

[The Archregimancy]

For what it's worth, I think that the current Bishop of Rome is a decent man, and he seems to be doing his best in what's undoubtedly a difficult role. He seems to be doing more to effectively address some of the historical institutional wrongs that plagued the Catholic Church in the latter part of the 20th century than either of his predecessors (and I appreciate our Catholics won't agree with me, but I think the unseemly rush to canonise John Paul II was a terrible mistake), and his willingness to confront institutional conservatives in his organisation is a positive.

But at the end of the day, from the Orthodox perspective he's just another bishop; a hierarchically important one with administrative oversight over half of the world's Christians, and one we would be willing to honour as primus inter pares were the Great Schism to come to an end, but doctrinally no more important than any other bishop.

So I'm happy to offer him the civility and respect due to a senior church hierarch, but I see no need to offer him special respect above and beyond the respect that I'd hope that Catholics would demonstrate towards, say, Patriarch Bartholomew or Patriarch Kyrill.

[Pasong Tirad]

Pope Francis voices support for free universal healthcare for all.

Now that's based....

Too bad some of the more right-wingish Protestant groups will see Francis as a "communist" because he advocated for free healthcare.

Would it help them if I pointed out that it's probably not a good idea to place Pope Francis on the liberal-conservative scale?