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Christian Discussion Thread XII: Soter? I hardly know her!

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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What is your denomination?

Roman Catholic
98
37%
Eastern Orthodox
27
10%
Non-Chalcedonian (Oriental Orthodox, Church of the East, etc.)
2
1%
Anglican/Episcopalian
17
6%
Lutheran or Reformed (including Calvinist, Presbyterian, etc.)
27
10%
Methodist
3
1%
Baptist
21
8%
Other Evangelical Protestant (Pentecostal, Charismatic, etc.)
17
6%
Restorationist (LDS Movement, Jehovah's Witness, etc.)
14
5%
Other Christian
38
14%
 
Total votes : 264

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Lower Nubia
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Posts: 2944
Founded: Dec 22, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Lower Nubia » Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:11 am

Salus Maior wrote:
Old Tyrannia wrote:Yes. As I say, it's a traditional Anglican practice, one that has largely fallen out of use.


Huh, seems very strange to me. But interesting.

Was it a Reformation development or did it exist before then as well?


Likely a compromise of the era between Catholic, Lutheran, and Reformed leaning factions.
Last edited by Lower Nubia on Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
  1. Anglo-Catholic
    Anglican
  2. Socially Centre-Right
  3. Economically Centre-left
  4. Asperger
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  5. Graduated
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Her Region of Africa
Her Overview (WIP)
"These are they who are made like to God as far as possible, of their own free will, and by God's indwelling, and by His abiding grace. They are truly called gods, not by nature, but by participation; just as red-hot iron is called fire, not by nature, but by participation in the fire's action."
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Old Tyrannia
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 16221
Founded: Aug 11, 2009
Father Knows Best State

Postby Old Tyrannia » Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:15 am

Salus Maior wrote:
Old Tyrannia wrote:Yes. As I say, it's a traditional Anglican practice, one that has largely fallen out of use.


Huh, seems very strange to me. But interesting.

Was it a Reformation development or did it exist before then as well?

I'm fairly sure it was introduced during the Reformation, with the first edition of the Book of Common Prayer. There's a good blog post about the practice here. I'm not sure what the actual rationale for it was at the time.
Whisky-loving Anglican monarchist and one time moderator.
"It is spiritless to think that you cannot attain to that which you have seen and heard the masters attain. The masters are men. You are also a man. If you think that you will be inferior in doing something, you will be on that road very soon."
- Yamamoto Tsunetomo

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Salus Maior
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Posts: 24559
Founded: Jun 16, 2014
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Postby Salus Maior » Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:21 am

Old Tyrannia wrote:
Salus Maior wrote:
Huh, seems very strange to me. But interesting.

Was it a Reformation development or did it exist before then as well?

I'm fairly sure it was introduced during the Reformation, with the first edition of the Book of Common Prayer. There's a good blog post about the practice here. I'm not sure what the actual rationale for it was at the time.


Huh, fascinating.

I think I'll stick with Ad Orientum though ;P
Traditionalist Catholic, Constitutional Monarchist, Habsburg Nostalgic, Distributist.

"What earlier generations held as sacred, remains sacred and great for us too, and it cannot be all of sudden entirely forbidden or even considered harmful." - Pope Benedict XVI

“No one in the world can change Truth. What we can do and should do is to seek truth and to serve it when we have found it. The real conflict is the inner conflict. Beyond armies of occupation and the hecatombs of extermination camps, there are two irreconcilable enemies in the depth of every soul: good and evil, sin and love. And what use are the victories on the battlefield if we ourselves are defeated in our innermost personal selves?”
~ St. Maximilian Kolbe

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Salus Maior
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24559
Founded: Jun 16, 2014
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Salus Maior » Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:22 am

Oh, speaking of Anglicanism and Catholicism, today's St. Thomas More's feast day.
Traditionalist Catholic, Constitutional Monarchist, Habsburg Nostalgic, Distributist.

"What earlier generations held as sacred, remains sacred and great for us too, and it cannot be all of sudden entirely forbidden or even considered harmful." - Pope Benedict XVI

“No one in the world can change Truth. What we can do and should do is to seek truth and to serve it when we have found it. The real conflict is the inner conflict. Beyond armies of occupation and the hecatombs of extermination camps, there are two irreconcilable enemies in the depth of every soul: good and evil, sin and love. And what use are the victories on the battlefield if we ourselves are defeated in our innermost personal selves?”
~ St. Maximilian Kolbe

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Lower Nubia
Minister
 
Posts: 2944
Founded: Dec 22, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Lower Nubia » Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:29 am

Salus Maior wrote:Oh, speaking of Anglicanism and Catholicism, today's St. Thomas More's feast day.

sorts by controversial
  1. Anglo-Catholic
    Anglican
  2. Socially Centre-Right
  3. Economically Centre-left
  4. Asperger
    Syndrome
  5. Graduated
    in Biochemistry
Her Region of Africa
Her Overview (WIP)
"These are they who are made like to God as far as possible, of their own free will, and by God's indwelling, and by His abiding grace. They are truly called gods, not by nature, but by participation; just as red-hot iron is called fire, not by nature, but by participation in the fire's action."
Signature Updated: 19th March, 2020

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Tarsonis
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18536
Founded: Sep 20, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Tarsonis » Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:30 am

Lower Nubia wrote:
Salus Maior wrote:Oh, speaking of Anglicanism and Catholicism, today's St. Thomas More's feast day.

sorts by controversial


I understood that reference
NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Galatians 6:7 " Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
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Salus Maior
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24559
Founded: Jun 16, 2014
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Salus Maior » Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:35 am

Lower Nubia wrote:
Salus Maior wrote:Oh, speaking of Anglicanism and Catholicism, today's St. Thomas More's feast day.

sorts by controversial


We were being too nice and respectful to each other ;P
Traditionalist Catholic, Constitutional Monarchist, Habsburg Nostalgic, Distributist.

"What earlier generations held as sacred, remains sacred and great for us too, and it cannot be all of sudden entirely forbidden or even considered harmful." - Pope Benedict XVI

“No one in the world can change Truth. What we can do and should do is to seek truth and to serve it when we have found it. The real conflict is the inner conflict. Beyond armies of occupation and the hecatombs of extermination camps, there are two irreconcilable enemies in the depth of every soul: good and evil, sin and love. And what use are the victories on the battlefield if we ourselves are defeated in our innermost personal selves?”
~ St. Maximilian Kolbe

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Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 42537
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:36 am

Salus Maior wrote:Oh, speaking of Anglicanism and Catholicism, today's St. Thomas More's feast day.

an excuse to eat more food
Adjunct Professor of Cultural Marxism at the Frankfurt School
Rahm Emanuel, the administration’s nominee for ambassador to Japan, was mayor of Chicago for eight years, and while we all know he closed 50 schools and tried to cover up the police murder of a child, it seems equally significant that no one can point to any actual positive accomplishments
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Tarsonis
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18536
Founded: Sep 20, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Tarsonis » Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:37 am

Salus Maior wrote:
Lower Nubia wrote:sorts by controversial


We were being too nice and respectful to each other ;P


It's making me jittery. You wanna go get thrown out of an Applebee's?
NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Galatians 6:7 " Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

User avatar
Old Tyrannia
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 16221
Founded: Aug 11, 2009
Father Knows Best State

Postby Old Tyrannia » Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:37 am

We already discussed Thomas More last week, or at least Sundiata and I did.
Whisky-loving Anglican monarchist and one time moderator.
"It is spiritless to think that you cannot attain to that which you have seen and heard the masters attain. The masters are men. You are also a man. If you think that you will be inferior in doing something, you will be on that road very soon."
- Yamamoto Tsunetomo

User avatar
Tarsonis
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18536
Founded: Sep 20, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Tarsonis » Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:40 am

Kowani wrote:
Salus Maior wrote:Oh, speaking of Anglicanism and Catholicism, today's St. Thomas More's feast day.

an excuse to eat more food

like we need an excuse
NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Galatians 6:7 " Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

User avatar
Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 42537
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:43 am

Tarsonis wrote:
Kowani wrote:an excuse to eat more food

like we need an excuse

...fair point
Adjunct Professor of Cultural Marxism at the Frankfurt School
Rahm Emanuel, the administration’s nominee for ambassador to Japan, was mayor of Chicago for eight years, and while we all know he closed 50 schools and tried to cover up the police murder of a child, it seems equally significant that no one can point to any actual positive accomplishments
Updating Trackers! How Congress votes, what Americans believe, and world leader approvals
Headline of the day: Pennsylvania police roll up to football game, shoot into the crowd, kill 8 year-old girl

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Lower Nubia
Minister
 
Posts: 2944
Founded: Dec 22, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Lower Nubia » Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:46 am

Tarsonis wrote:
Kowani wrote:an excuse to eat more food

like we need an excuse


Our religion is literally centred around eating our God. As if too much is an obstacle.
  1. Anglo-Catholic
    Anglican
  2. Socially Centre-Right
  3. Economically Centre-left
  4. Asperger
    Syndrome
  5. Graduated
    in Biochemistry
Her Region of Africa
Her Overview (WIP)
"These are they who are made like to God as far as possible, of their own free will, and by God's indwelling, and by His abiding grace. They are truly called gods, not by nature, but by participation; just as red-hot iron is called fire, not by nature, but by participation in the fire's action."
Signature Updated: 19th March, 2020

User avatar
Tarsonis
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18536
Founded: Sep 20, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Tarsonis » Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:56 am

Lower Nubia wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:like we need an excuse


Our religion is literally centred around eating our God. As if too much is an obstacle.


it's not gluttony if everyone is fed.
NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Galatians 6:7 " Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

User avatar
Lower Nubia
Minister
 
Posts: 2944
Founded: Dec 22, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Lower Nubia » Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:59 am

Tarsonis wrote:
Lower Nubia wrote:
Our religion is literally centred around eating our God. As if too much is an obstacle.


it's not gluttony if everyone is fed.


Manna from heaven intensifies
Last edited by Lower Nubia on Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
  1. Anglo-Catholic
    Anglican
  2. Socially Centre-Right
  3. Economically Centre-left
  4. Asperger
    Syndrome
  5. Graduated
    in Biochemistry
Her Region of Africa
Her Overview (WIP)
"These are they who are made like to God as far as possible, of their own free will, and by God's indwelling, and by His abiding grace. They are truly called gods, not by nature, but by participation; just as red-hot iron is called fire, not by nature, but by participation in the fire's action."
Signature Updated: 19th March, 2020

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Luminesa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 58217
Founded: Dec 09, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Luminesa » Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:05 pm

Kowani wrote:
Salus Maior wrote:Oh, speaking of Anglicanism and Catholicism, today's St. Thomas More's feast day.

an excuse to eat more food

Well it’s 2 PM and I haven’t had food yet. SO.

He’s probably mad at me. :/
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North Washington Republic
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Posts: 2809
Founded: Mar 13, 2021
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby North Washington Republic » Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:50 pm

Lower Nubia wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:like we need an excuse


Our religion is literally centred around eating our God. As if too much is an obstacle.


I take you believe in transubstantiation then?
I’m a hawkish unpillable center-left American Patriot.
Pro: Constitutional Republic, representative democracy, efficient and comprehensive welfare state, neoconservatism, civic nationalism, cannabis legalization, $15 an hour min.wage, religious liberty, LGBTQIA rights, Law & Order, police, death penalty, sensible reform of law enforcement, racial equity, peace through strength, NATO, EU
Anti: anarchism, paleoconservatism, communism, libertarianism, fascism, ACAB, racism, populism, Trump(ism), Qanon, Putin, Xi, Taliban
I’m a 29 year-old male and I live in Minneapolis, Minnesota.
Cisgender and Asexual. He/Him. Deist.
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Tarsonis
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Posts: 18536
Founded: Sep 20, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Tarsonis » Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:59 pm

North Washington Republic wrote:
Lower Nubia wrote:
Our religion is literally centred around eating our God. As if too much is an obstacle.




I take you believe in transubstantiation then?


yes. But don't confuse transubstantiation with the Real Presence.
NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Galatians 6:7 " Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

User avatar
North Washington Republic
Minister
 
Posts: 2809
Founded: Mar 13, 2021
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby North Washington Republic » Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:02 pm

Tarsonis wrote:
North Washington Republic wrote:


I take you believe in transubstantiation then?


yes. But don't confuse transubstantiation with the Real Presence.


I know you do. I’m asking Lower Nubia if they believe in it. Some anglicans do, some anglicans don’t. The high church ones are more likely to believe in it.
I’m a hawkish unpillable center-left American Patriot.
Pro: Constitutional Republic, representative democracy, efficient and comprehensive welfare state, neoconservatism, civic nationalism, cannabis legalization, $15 an hour min.wage, religious liberty, LGBTQIA rights, Law & Order, police, death penalty, sensible reform of law enforcement, racial equity, peace through strength, NATO, EU
Anti: anarchism, paleoconservatism, communism, libertarianism, fascism, ACAB, racism, populism, Trump(ism), Qanon, Putin, Xi, Taliban
I’m a 29 year-old male and I live in Minneapolis, Minnesota.
Cisgender and Asexual. He/Him. Deist.
Economic Left/Right: -0.75. Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.67
My 8values results

GET VACCINATED ASAP AND WEAR A MASK!!!

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Tarsonis
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18536
Founded: Sep 20, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Tarsonis » Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:06 pm

North Washington Republic wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:
yes. But don't confuse transubstantiation with the Real Presence.


I know you do. I’m asking Lower Nubia if they believe in it. Some anglicans do, some anglicans don’t. The high church ones are more likely to believe in it.


I meant yes he does. He's Anglo-Catholic.
NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Galatians 6:7 " Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

User avatar
North Washington Republic
Minister
 
Posts: 2809
Founded: Mar 13, 2021
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby North Washington Republic » Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:09 pm

Tarsonis wrote:
North Washington Republic wrote:
I know you do. I’m asking Lower Nubia if they believe in it. Some anglicans do, some anglicans don’t. The high church ones are more likely to believe in it.


I meant yes he does. He's Anglo-Catholic.


Not all Anglo-Catholics believe in transubstantiation.
I’m a hawkish unpillable center-left American Patriot.
Pro: Constitutional Republic, representative democracy, efficient and comprehensive welfare state, neoconservatism, civic nationalism, cannabis legalization, $15 an hour min.wage, religious liberty, LGBTQIA rights, Law & Order, police, death penalty, sensible reform of law enforcement, racial equity, peace through strength, NATO, EU
Anti: anarchism, paleoconservatism, communism, libertarianism, fascism, ACAB, racism, populism, Trump(ism), Qanon, Putin, Xi, Taliban
I’m a 29 year-old male and I live in Minneapolis, Minnesota.
Cisgender and Asexual. He/Him. Deist.
Economic Left/Right: -0.75. Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.67
My 8values results

GET VACCINATED ASAP AND WEAR A MASK!!!

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Nevertopia
Minister
 
Posts: 2302
Founded: May 27, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Nevertopia » Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:10 pm

Tarsonis wrote:
North Washington Republic wrote:
I know you do. I’m asking Lower Nubia if they believe in it. Some anglicans do, some anglicans don’t. The high church ones are more likely to believe in it.


I meant yes he does. He's Anglo-Catholic.


speaking of the vatican, isnt the grounds technically deconsecrated from all the child abuse that goes on?
Down with the CCP
Communism has failed every time its been tried.
Civilization Index: Class 9.28
Tier 7: Stellar Settler | Level 7: Wonderful Wizard | Type 7: Astro Ambassador
This nation's overview is the primary canon. For more information use NS stats.
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User avatar
Lower Nubia
Minister
 
Posts: 2944
Founded: Dec 22, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Lower Nubia » Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:12 pm

North Washington Republic wrote:
Lower Nubia wrote:
Our religion is literally centred around eating our God. As if too much is an obstacle.


I take you believe in transubstantiation then?


Yes.
  1. Anglo-Catholic
    Anglican
  2. Socially Centre-Right
  3. Economically Centre-left
  4. Asperger
    Syndrome
  5. Graduated
    in Biochemistry
Her Region of Africa
Her Overview (WIP)
"These are they who are made like to God as far as possible, of their own free will, and by God's indwelling, and by His abiding grace. They are truly called gods, not by nature, but by participation; just as red-hot iron is called fire, not by nature, but by participation in the fire's action."
Signature Updated: 19th March, 2020

User avatar
Lower Nubia
Minister
 
Posts: 2944
Founded: Dec 22, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Lower Nubia » Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:12 pm

Nevertopia wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:
I meant yes he does. He's Anglo-Catholic.


speaking of the vatican, isnt the grounds technically deconsecrated from all the child abuse that goes on?


That's left field, and no. The idea ground isn't consecrated because a bishop/priest sins, is Donatism.
  1. Anglo-Catholic
    Anglican
  2. Socially Centre-Right
  3. Economically Centre-left
  4. Asperger
    Syndrome
  5. Graduated
    in Biochemistry
Her Region of Africa
Her Overview (WIP)
"These are they who are made like to God as far as possible, of their own free will, and by God's indwelling, and by His abiding grace. They are truly called gods, not by nature, but by participation; just as red-hot iron is called fire, not by nature, but by participation in the fire's action."
Signature Updated: 19th March, 2020

User avatar
Nevertopia
Minister
 
Posts: 2302
Founded: May 27, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Nevertopia » Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:13 pm

Lower Nubia wrote:
Nevertopia wrote:
speaking of the vatican, isnt the grounds technically deconsecrated from all the child abuse that goes on?


That's left field, and no. The idea ground isn't consecrated because a bishop/priest sins, is Donatism.


sounds like the donatists were on to something.
Down with the CCP
Communism has failed every time its been tried.
Civilization Index: Class 9.28
Tier 7: Stellar Settler | Level 7: Wonderful Wizard | Type 7: Astro Ambassador
This nation's overview is the primary canon. For more information use NS stats.
Black Lives Matter

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