People Power is Dead

[Bassoe]

...when mass demonstrations rock major Western states for like three years straight (the Yellow Vests and Black Lives Matter most notably)... I guess we're just supposed to cynically assume they're predestined for complete and utter failure, despite the responses we've observed from politicians that suggest such activity does at least have some impact...

Said 'demonstrations' are entirely beneficial to the status quo. All they've accomplished is to burn down the homes and businesses of a bunch of plebeians, who, unlike gigantic megacorp conglomerates, cannot afford to rebuild, thus securing even more of a monopoly in sales and rental housing for said gigantic megacorp conglomerates. And to change the narrative from 'the police are shooting people, how terrible, that needs to be stopped' to 'fuck it, shoot as many of those domestic terrorists as is necessary to prevent them from destroying our homes and places of employment, which, in a country without a social safety net and an economy ravanged by a pandemic and quarintine, would pose a credible threat to our lives'.

Look at what happened to Occupy Wall Street for an actual populist movement which went against the intentions of the ruling regime, propaganda was spread to tear it apart into useless feuding factions.

[Blue Nagia]

People power is certainly dying. Maybe not dead yet.

I think the thing we need to wake people up to is the banality of totalitarianism. People need to understand that we're not going to wake up tomorrow to "it's 1984, there's a telescreen in your home, get ready for Hate Week!"

Our Orwellian future is like a set of Legos, being assembled one piece at a time. The state isn't just going up and put cameras in your home and make you get permission to travel outside of your neighborhood. Totalitarianism is slow, bureaucratic, and most of all - boring. And because many rules do not affect a great deal of people, few will be compelled to organize and resist.

You need a license to write fiction now: That's kind of messed up, but I'm not a writer so whatever...

You can't just buy Valerian root anymore, you need a prescription: That's lame but I never liked that stuff anyway, if I can't sleep I just have a brandy...

Listening to music while driving is illegal now: Seems kinda extreme but I enjoy quiet time during my commute so I don't care...

Children who don't conform to their assigned gender have to be reported to the Department of Children and Families and monitored by social workers: That might be good, can't let kids grow up confused about their gender, but my kids are normal anyway...

First they came for people who have interests and problems I don't care about, then they came for me and there was no one left because no one cares about my interests and problems.

Wait, what's this about needing a license to write fiction? What the Hell? What kind of Orwellian shit is that?

It's not happening, but it could. And many people would let it happen under their noses. That's the point.

Of course, no government would just out and say "you need a license to write fiction now", unless they were Trump-calibre idiots and also cared about that. But you can gradually restrict the "types" of people who are allowed to post online, by quietly filtering out the accounts of "undesirables" from view. (Like China is doing now.) You make their posts drop to the bottom of searches, and if they write things you really don't like, fiction or nonfiction, their accounts disappear. You slowly start doing this to more and more people until only the things you want people to write are written.

You can do the same for the publishing industry by quietly making sure that publishers don't publish "subversive" fiction, or even by buying the publishers outright. Thus, you've now essentially created a system where you need a "license" (government approval) to post your writing anywhere.

Notice how that doesn't sound as dramatic as "license to write fiction"? That's how they could, and do, sneak these laws in, because they don't sound as bad as what the government is essentially using them for, which is a ban on certain forms of expression.

You can probably easily imagine how the other things could come about. The only thing that's unrealistic is that no government would care about banning fiction per se, unless they had an unusual religious belief around it. They'd generally want to ban fiction that supports their opponents and promote fiction that glorifies their own regime.

[Bombadil]

It's not happening, but it could. And many people would let it happen under their noses. That's the point.

Of course, no government would just out and say "you need a license to write fiction now", unless they were Trump-calibre idiots and also cared about that. But you can gradually restrict the "types" of people who are allowed to post online, by quietly filtering out the accounts of "undesirables" from view. (Like China is doing now.) You make their posts drop to the bottom of searches, and if they write things you really don't like, fiction or nonfiction, their accounts disappear. You slowly start doing this to more and more people until only the things you want people to write are written.

You can do the same for the publishing industry by quietly making sure that publishers don't publish "subversive" fiction, or even by buying the publishers outright. Thus, you've now essentially created a system where you need a "license" (government approval) to post your writing anywhere.

Notice how that doesn't sound as dramatic as "license to write fiction"? That's how they could, and do, sneak these laws in, because they don't sound as bad as what the government is essentially using them for, which is a ban on certain forms of expression.

You can probably easily imagine how the other things could come about. The only thing that's unrealistic is that no government would care about banning fiction per se, unless they had an unusual religious belief around it. They'd generally want to ban fiction that supports their opponents and promote fiction that glorifies their own regime.

You can start to ban things on politically sensitive grounds where 'political' can encompass everything..

Normally at this time of year Hong Kong media are bustling to prepare coverage of Friday’s anniversary of the Tiananmen Square massacre which, before Covid restrictions hit, usually included a huge vigil in Victoria Park. The event is illegal in China but had been proudly held in Hong Kong for decades.

But this year journalists at the respected public broadcaster RTHK say they’ve been told to stand down.

“We were informed that no political story is allowed,” says Emily*, an RTHK employee who, along with others interviewed for this article, asked for anonymity to speak freely. “We think it’s kind of funny because what isn’t a political story now?”

Link

[Blue Nagia]

Indeed. Everything that involves banning or censoring political speech is a political act.

[Postauthoritarian America]

My reading of human history is that "a people" or "the people," meaning those not in possession of political, economic and/or military power, may revolt from time to time but those revolts are doomed to fail and their leaders and most if not all followers killed, imprisoned, exiled or suppressed. Most so-called "revolutions" are in fact merely changes of one ruling class for another.

Feel free to cite a counterexample but I find none in recorded history.

[Shofercia]

People power has stopped working.

Why? First, surveillance techniques, developed and honed in China, have reached a new effectiveness. Lukashenko does not idly boast that other activists in exile will soon be caught. “We know you by sight,” he claimed last week. His brutal security services, already with 400 political prisoners under their belt, will be using state-of-the-art Chinese digital technology to identify and track any suspects.

Second, there is the fact of Chinese power and money, and its refutation of the proposition that economic success lies in the necessary partnership of functioning democracy with honest capitalism. All around the world, leaders of one-party states believe they can emulate Chinese “Leninist capitalism”, directing their banking systems to supply limitless credit and controlling their populations. Worse, too many western companies and governments collude; they want export orders, particularly from China.

Third, the west in general, and the US in particular, is war-weary. The cost in lost lives and disfigured bodies in the illegitimate, failed interventions in Afghanistan and Iraq has been too high. Democracies with volunteer armies cannot send young men and women to war, ignoring international law but responding to focus groups, without eventually triggering blowback – so endangering the readiness to fight when there is real need. There is no appetite to lift a finger to oppose the new despots.

And, most sinister of all, growing parts of the western political right no longer believe in the practice of authentic democracy – and large numbers in western electorates tacitly agree. Democracy is a system that works as a whole, encompassing elections and all the buttressing freedoms. These are not only fundamental human rights; they are the foundations of good governance and civilisation itself. They frame a capitalism that does not degrade into cronyism and sclerotic monopoly.

Link

I've been saying this for a while now, the ability for a population to rise up and defeat a government is close to impossible now, in part because governments really don't care about blatantly suppressing protests with clear force to halt it as soon as possible. And it seems sanctions just breeze past people, they can get support from elsewhere so as long as the regime can survive then that's all that matters.

As surveillance and tracking increase, there's even less possibility for anyone to organise, the degree of weaponry and power a government has is beyond the ability of people to overpower.

Of course, ideally this is obviated by democracy, the ability to use the vote to remove people from power, but even this seems increasingly under attack.

Even in democracy, studies shown that politicians vote with donors not the electorate, so it's really just a question of whether you have the money to influence politics and if you do, you're hardly going to look out for the general population's interests over your own.

So what can people do, events in Thailand, Myanmar and across the world shows that if the powers that be don't like the results of democracy they just overturn it.

Is this an increasing trend, what say the wise denizens of NSG?

First, it depends on how you define "People Power" because if you define it as the ability to stage revolutions and coups, it has a horrendous track record. I see a lot more People Power in MLK Jr's marches than in couped-in government, and this article comes off as whining of a long forgotten Neocon. A lot of the great things in the US, such as an 8 hour workday, women voting, non-property owners voting, blacks voting, local elections, referenda, etc, all came as a result of People Power and a gradual shift in the right direction. Comparing that to Ukraine's "People Power", where the couped-in administration failed at healthcare reform so incredibly badly, that the main reformer was dubbed Dr. Death, is a no brainer. Gradual People Power wins, revolutions and coups? Those win rarely, if ever, but I'm not sure what you can call the Civil Rights Movement if not "People Power"

Second, let's shift to Belarus. Even in Ukraine, the claim was that Yanukovich lost the election, so a new one should be held. In Belarus, Tikhanovskaya is just asking us to take her word for it; she's not even willing to hold another election. That's the first red flag. Second, the Belarussian People were oppressed by the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. Where does Tikhanovskaya go? Lithuania. Second red flag. And let's not forget Russia, who was rather clear that Russia wants nothing to do with Tikhanovkskaya, so those subsidies and military protection can go bye-bye, leading to a deterioration of the Belarussian Standard of Living.

Lukashenko is no saint, and hasn't even been that good since he fucked up economically in 2008. But with Lukashenko, the Belarussians at least know what to expect, how to fight his idiocy, and which subsidies he won't touch. With him, despite him occasionally acting like a dictatorial idiot, slow progress is possible. With Tikhanovskaya? Only thing they're guaranteed is a deterioration of the Standard of Living. They've seen the results in Ukraine. And in Iraq. And in Yugoslavia. And in Libya. They don't want that. I wouldn't want that either.

Real work and hence real "People Power" is slow, tedious, and painful, but it brings real change. What the author describes as "People Power" is nothing more than flashy bullshit that fails more often than not.

[Page]

People power is certainly dying. Maybe not dead yet.

I think the thing we need to wake people up to is the banality of totalitarianism. People need to understand that we're not going to wake up tomorrow to "it's 1984, there's a telescreen in your home, get ready for Hate Week!"

Our Orwellian future is like a set of Legos, being assembled one piece at a time. The state isn't just going up and put cameras in your home and make you get permission to travel outside of your neighborhood. Totalitarianism is slow, bureaucratic, and most of all - boring. And because many rules do not affect a great deal of people, few will be compelled to organize and resist.

You need a license to write fiction now: That's kind of messed up, but I'm not a writer so whatever...

You can't just buy Valerian root anymore, you need a prescription: That's lame but I never liked that stuff anyway, if I can't sleep I just have a brandy...

Listening to music while driving is illegal now: Seems kinda extreme but I enjoy quiet time during my commute so I don't care...

Children who don't conform to their assigned gender have to be reported to the Department of Children and Families and monitored by social workers: That might be good, can't let kids grow up confused about their gender, but my kids are normal anyway...

First they came for people who have interests and problems I don't care about, then they came for me and there was no one left because no one cares about my interests and problems.

Wait, what's this about needing a license to write fiction? What the Hell? What kind of Orwellian shit is that?

There was a guy in Oregon who got fined for "unlicensed engineering" for analyzing the timing of traffic lights. This guy didn't build anything, he didn't touch anything, he just did some math and then presented his findings to the city council and got fined for it. They fined him for making calculations and talking about his calculations.

[Picairn]

Wait, what's this about needing a license to write fiction? What the Hell? What kind of Orwellian shit is that?

There was a guy in Oregon who got fined for "unlicensed engineering" for analyzing the timing of traffic lights. This guy didn't build anything, he didn't touch anything, he just did some math and then presented his findings to the city council and got fined for it. They fined him for making calculations and talking about his calculations.

https://www.theregister.com/2017/04/29/ ... bout_math/

Holy shit, it's real.

[Kilobugya]

There was a guy in Oregon who got fined for "unlicensed engineering" for analyzing the timing of traffic lights. This guy didn't build anything, he didn't touch anything, he just did some math and then presented his findings to the city council and got fined for it. They fined him for making calculations and talking about his calculations.

Wouldn't that be a violation of 1st Amendment and be cancelled by a higher court ? But sometimes people prefer to pay clearly abusive fines rather than going through all the expenses and hassle required to get the fine cancelled by a higher court... which is a real problem of current "rule of law".

[Cameroi]

its been seriously injured by wannabe fascism (and often falsely claiming its name). clearly an act of foul play.

oddly enough, while there are no sure things in the real universe, there's a pretty good prognoses for its recovery.

[Page]

It's funny how all the way back in 2004 South Park established the Giant Douche vs. Turd Sandwich dichotomy. And now we have it, and it applies not just to American Presidential elections but the western world as a whole.

The giant douche is neoliberal capitalism, with just enough social democracy to prevent its overthrow, but the social democracy is perennially neutered by austerity that comes at the expense of the people but not the ruling class or the military industrial complex (Biden, Macron, Merkel, Trudeau).

The turd sandwich is unfettered capitalism combined with reactionary fascism in which minorities and immigrants are scapegoated by propaganda to distract from the rise of the police state (Trump and his international analogues).

[San Lumen]

People power has stopped working.

Why? First, surveillance techniques, developed and honed in China, have reached a new effectiveness. Lukashenko does not idly boast that other activists in exile will soon be caught. “We know you by sight,” he claimed last week. His brutal security services, already with 400 political prisoners under their belt, will be using state-of-the-art Chinese digital technology to identify and track any suspects.

Second, there is the fact of Chinese power and money, and its refutation of the proposition that economic success lies in the necessary partnership of functioning democracy with honest capitalism. All around the world, leaders of one-party states believe they can emulate Chinese “Leninist capitalism”, directing their banking systems to supply limitless credit and controlling their populations. Worse, too many western companies and governments collude; they want export orders, particularly from China.

Third, the west in general, and the US in particular, is war-weary. The cost in lost lives and disfigured bodies in the illegitimate, failed interventions in Afghanistan and Iraq has been too high. Democracies with volunteer armies cannot send young men and women to war, ignoring international law but responding to focus groups, without eventually triggering blowback – so endangering the readiness to fight when there is real need. There is no appetite to lift a finger to oppose the new despots.

And, most sinister of all, growing parts of the western political right no longer believe in the practice of authentic democracy – and large numbers in western electorates tacitly agree. Democracy is a system that works as a whole, encompassing elections and all the buttressing freedoms. These are not only fundamental human rights; they are the foundations of good governance and civilisation itself. They frame a capitalism that does not degrade into cronyism and sclerotic monopoly.

Link

I've been saying this for a while now, the ability for a population to rise up and defeat a government is close to impossible now, in part because governments really don't care about blatantly suppressing protests with clear force to halt it as soon as possible. And it seems sanctions just breeze past people, they can get support from elsewhere so as long as the regime can survive then that's all that matters.

As surveillance and tracking increase, there's even less possibility for anyone to organise, the degree of weaponry and power a government has is beyond the ability of people to overpower.

Of course, ideally this is obviated by democracy, the ability to use the vote to remove people from power, but even this seems increasingly under attack.

Even in democracy, studies shown that politicians vote with donors not the electorate, so it's really just a question of whether you have the money to influence politics and if you do, you're hardly going to look out for the general population's interests over your own.

So what can people do, events in Thailand, Myanmar and across the world shows that if the powers that be don't like the results of democracy they just overturn it.

Is this an increasing trend, what say the wise denizens of NSG?

First, it depends on how you define "People Power" because if you define it as the ability to stage revolutions and coups, it has a horrendous track record. I see a lot more People Power in MLK Jr's marches than in couped-in government, and this article comes off as whining of a long forgotten Neocon. A lot of the great things in the US, such as an 8 hour workday, women voting, non-property owners voting, blacks voting, local elections, referenda, etc, all came as a result of People Power and a gradual shift in the right direction. Comparing that to Ukraine's "People Power", where the couped-in administration failed at healthcare reform so incredibly badly, that the main reformer was dubbed Dr. Death, is a no brainer. Gradual People Power wins, revolutions and coups? Those win rarely, if ever, but I'm not sure what you can call the Civil Rights Movement if not "People Power"

Second, let's shift to Belarus. Even in Ukraine, the claim was that Yanukovich lost the election, so a new one should be held. In Belarus, Tikhanovskaya is just asking us to take her word for it; she's not even willing to hold another election. That's the first red flag. Second, the Belarussian People were oppressed by the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. Where does Tikhanovskaya go? Lithuania. Second red flag. And let's not forget Russia, who was rather clear that Russia wants nothing to do with Tikhanovkskaya, so those subsidies and military protection can go bye-bye, leading to a deterioration of the Belarussian Standard of Living.

Lukashenko is no saint, and hasn't even been that good since he fucked up economically in 2008. But with Lukashenko, the Belarussians at least know what to expect, how to fight his idiocy, and which subsidies he won't touch. With him, despite him occasionally acting like a dictatorial idiot, slow progress is possible. With Tikhanovskaya? Only thing they're guaranteed is a deterioration of the Standard of Living. They've seen the results in Ukraine. And in Iraq. And in Yugoslavia. And in Libya. They don't want that. I wouldn't want that either.

Real work and hence real "People Power" is slow, tedious, and painful, but it brings real change. What the author describes as "People Power" is nothing more than flashy bullshit that fails more often than not.

The election in Belarus was blatantly rigged. There is evidence of massive fraud and vote tampering.

Lukashenko is a a dictator and it’s flabbergasting that his security apparatus stood behind him. They should have turned on him.

[Kubra]

First, it depends on how you define "People Power" because if you define it as the ability to stage revolutions and coups, it has a horrendous track record. I see a lot more People Power in MLK Jr's marches than in couped-in government, and this article comes off as whining of a long forgotten Neocon. A lot of the great things in the US, such as an 8 hour workday, women voting, non-property owners voting, blacks voting, local elections, referenda, etc, all came as a result of People Power and a gradual shift in the right direction. Comparing that to Ukraine's "People Power", where the couped-in administration failed at healthcare reform so incredibly badly, that the main reformer was dubbed Dr. Death, is a no brainer. Gradual People Power wins, revolutions and coups? Those win rarely, if ever, but I'm not sure what you can call the Civil Rights Movement if not "People Power"

Second, let's shift to Belarus. Even in Ukraine, the claim was that Yanukovich lost the election, so a new one should be held. In Belarus, Tikhanovskaya is just asking us to take her word for it; she's not even willing to hold another election. That's the first red flag. Second, the Belarussian People were oppressed by the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. Where does Tikhanovskaya go? Lithuania. Second red flag. And let's not forget Russia, who was rather clear that Russia wants nothing to do with Tikhanovkskaya, so those subsidies and military protection can go bye-bye, leading to a deterioration of the Belarussian Standard of Living.

Lukashenko is no saint, and hasn't even been that good since he fucked up economically in 2008. But with Lukashenko, the Belarussians at least know what to expect, how to fight his idiocy, and which subsidies he won't touch. With him, despite him occasionally acting like a dictatorial idiot, slow progress is possible. With Tikhanovskaya? Only thing they're guaranteed is a deterioration of the Standard of Living. They've seen the results in Ukraine. And in Iraq. And in Yugoslavia. And in Libya. They don't want that. I wouldn't want that either.

Real work and hence real "People Power" is slow, tedious, and painful, but it brings real change. What the author describes as "People Power" is nothing more than flashy bullshit that fails more often than not.

The election in Belarus was blatantly rigged. There is evidence of massive fraud and vote tampering.

Lukashenko is a a dictator and it’s flabbergasting that his security apparatus stood behind him. They should have turned on him.

Usually, when a security apparatus decides to call the shots it doesn't exactly decide on proportional representation and separation of powers, you feel?
You know not what you ask for, traveller.

[Panslavicland]

People power does still exist in places like Belarus, Hong Kong and Russia. Its why the authorities there have managed to defeat foreign back movements to seize power from the people and place it in the hands of those who serve Western interests.

[San Lumen]

The election in Belarus was blatantly rigged. There is evidence of massive fraud and vote tampering.

Lukashenko is a a dictator and it’s flabbergasting that his security apparatus stood behind him. They should have turned on him.

Usually, when a security apparatus decides to call the shots it doesn't exactly decide on proportional representation and separation of powers, you feel?
You know not what you ask for, traveller.

They should have told him to take a hike and let the revolution happen.

[Kubra]

Usually, when a security apparatus decides to call the shots it doesn't exactly decide on proportional representation and separation of powers, you feel?
You know not what you ask for, traveller.

They should have told him to take a hike and let the revolution happen.

Imagine the NKVD telling Stalin "Enough of this, the people deserve democracy!"
Do you think this is a thing that could, you know, happen?

[Immortan Khan]

Wait, what's this about needing a license to write fiction? What the Hell? What kind of Orwellian shit is that?

There was a guy in Oregon who got fined for "unlicensed engineering" for analyzing the timing of traffic lights. This guy didn't build anything, he didn't touch anything, he just did some math and then presented his findings to the city council and got fined for it. They fined him for making calculations and talking about his calculations.

https://www.theregister.com/2017/04/29/ ... bout_math/

Holy shit, it's real.

This reminds me of the time my city threatened to sue a bunch of dad's for placing desalting salt on a popular pathway because the city refused to do it.

[Ayytaly]

Entertainment and identitarian tribalism has stymied Democracy (people power), and technology merely facilitated it.

[Shofercia]

First, it depends on how you define "People Power" because if you define it as the ability to stage revolutions and coups, it has a horrendous track record. I see a lot more People Power in MLK Jr's marches than in couped-in government, and this article comes off as whining of a long forgotten Neocon. A lot of the great things in the US, such as an 8 hour workday, women voting, non-property owners voting, blacks voting, local elections, referenda, etc, all came as a result of People Power and a gradual shift in the right direction. Comparing that to Ukraine's "People Power", where the couped-in administration failed at healthcare reform so incredibly badly, that the main reformer was dubbed Dr. Death, is a no brainer. Gradual People Power wins, revolutions and coups? Those win rarely, if ever, but I'm not sure what you can call the Civil Rights Movement if not "People Power"

Second, let's shift to Belarus. Even in Ukraine, the claim was that Yanukovich lost the election, so a new one should be held. In Belarus, Tikhanovskaya is just asking us to take her word for it; she's not even willing to hold another election. That's the first red flag. Second, the Belarussian People were oppressed by the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. Where does Tikhanovskaya go? Lithuania. Second red flag. And let's not forget Russia, who was rather clear that Russia wants nothing to do with Tikhanovkskaya, so those subsidies and military protection can go bye-bye, leading to a deterioration of the Belarussian Standard of Living.

Lukashenko is no saint, and hasn't even been that good since he fucked up economically in 2008. But with Lukashenko, the Belarussians at least know what to expect, how to fight his idiocy, and which subsidies he won't touch. With him, despite him occasionally acting like a dictatorial idiot, slow progress is possible. With Tikhanovskaya? Only thing they're guaranteed is a deterioration of the Standard of Living. They've seen the results in Ukraine. And in Iraq. And in Yugoslavia. And in Libya. They don't want that. I wouldn't want that either.

Real work and hence real "People Power" is slow, tedious, and painful, but it brings real change. What the author describes as "People Power" is nothing more than flashy bullshit that fails more often than not.

The election in Belarus was blatantly rigged. There is evidence of massive fraud and vote tampering.

Lukashenko is a a dictator and it’s flabbergasting that his security apparatus stood behind him. They should have turned on him.

Yes, we've heard you repeat those claims, repeatedly, but you seem to have also quoted my post, so would you be so kind as to actually point out which part of my post you're addressing? Once again, Lumen, just to be clear: I'm not asking you to repeat your words which will certainly fall on deaf ears, as Belarus' security apparatus doesn't even give the tiniest of fucks about a random poster being flabbergasted; I'm asking you to highlight what specific part of my post you're addressing or even attempting to address.

[The Black Forrest]

Wait, what's this about needing a license to write fiction? What the Hell? What kind of Orwellian shit is that?

There was a guy in Oregon who got fined for "unlicensed engineering" for analyzing the timing of traffic lights. This guy didn't build anything, he didn't touch anything, he just did some math and then presented his findings to the city council and got fined for it. They fined him for making calculations and talking about his calculations.

https://www.theregister.com/2017/04/29/ ... bout_math/

Holy shit, it's real.

*shrugs* Usually behind some “you gotta be kidding” law there is actually a reason for it. It seems many people called themselves engineers and did not have a course of study or background.

People are why we have “stupid” laws.

[Ayytaly]

https://www.theregister.com/2017/04/29/ ... bout_math/

Holy shit, it's real.

*shrugs* Usually behind some “you gotta be kidding” law there is actually a reason for it. It seems many people called themselves engineers and did not have a course of study or background.

People are why we have “stupid” laws.

Damn TF2 fandom

[Galloism]

https://www.theregister.com/2017/04/29/ ... bout_math/

Holy shit, it's real.

*shrugs* Usually behind some “you gotta be kidding” law there is actually a reason for it. It seems many people called themselves engineers and did not have a course of study or background.

People are why we have “stupid” laws.

Notably, this law was overturned by the courts - marking that "engineer" was so broad a term that prohibiting people from saying it was a violation of free speech.

https://ij.org/press-release/oregon-eng ... g-lawsuit/

Also, his timing conclusion was eventually adopted by the Institute of Traffic Engineers.

https://ij.org/press-release/oregon-eng ... eP8QCU1fXY

[Nolo gap]

we don't live in a universe where (almost) anything 'can't' happen.
we live in one where some things happen so much more and less often then others that it seems that way.

(sometimes this is good, sometimes it isn't)

no idea if the op meant the same thing. "people power" i think of the summer of love and the termination of american hostilities in viet nam,
along with sit ins and civil rights marches and that sort of thing, and economic boycotts that really do work, and some of the other things from the late 60s,
and how the swollen demographic of young people changed the world. (and mostly for the better) (yah i'm that old i was there)

but then the world's knee hasn't stopped dangerously jerking either.

no movement nor belief ever dies out entirely, just gets obscured and forgotten by newer ones, but not ever entirely left behind or forgotten.
there in lies the pandora's box of both hope and danger.

[Diahon]

You know what I think? TO WAR!

It doesn't fucking matter what compromises you make with a fucking authoritarian, or a whole murder of them -- they'll kill the world to get power. Your balls, your money, your loves, your life, all for the sake of power. Motherfucking power. Insensate insatiable lust for power, just to kick even more people around before they end their lives.

At least, with even a war where you"ll lose and die, you decide how to fucking go out. Live in eternal fear before these fuckshits playing their deadly games with you? Fuck authoritarians, fuck their power lusts, and FUCK THEM ALL!

ALL!!!!!!

[Senkaku]

You know what I think? TO WAR!

It doesn't fucking matter what compromises you make with a fucking authoritarian, or a whole murder of them -- they'll kill the world to get power.

Most authoritarian regimes are a lot more boring than you think they are

Your balls, your money, your loves, your life, all for the sake of power. Motherfucking power. Insensate insatiable lust for power, just to kick even more people around before they end their lives.

At least, with even a war where you"ll lose and die, you decide how to fucking go out. Live in eternal fear before these fuckshits playing their deadly games with you? Fuck authoritarians, fuck their power lusts, and FUCK THEM ALL!

ALL!!!!!!

what do these drama/rage posts do for you psychologically? they can't possibly make you feel good, and God knows they're excruciating to read since you seem so earnest about it, so what gives?