1807 children found buried at former Canadian schools

[The Black Forrest]

You didn't distinguish them. You called them all 'hate crimes'.

The arsonists don't have a right to attack the reservation churches either, which are made up of indigenous priests and congregations. If anything, doing so only hurts indigenous communities.

Well? You can full back on it would not have happened if the Church hadn’t done what it did.

Wether or not it hurt the local Church community is a distraction.

It shows the Church has to make serious amends to the people. Thoughts and prayers and an apology aren’t going to cut it.

[Salus Maior]

The arsonists don't have a right to attack the reservation churches either, which are made up of indigenous priests and congregations. If anything, doing so only hurts indigenous communities.

Well? You can full back on it would have happened if the Church hadn’t done what it did.

Where or not it hurt the local Church community is a distraction.

It shows the Church has to make serious amends to the people. Thoughts and prayers and an apology aren’t going to cut it.

Pope Francis has already arranged a meeting with indigenous leaders which will be taking place in December.

Nobody's saying "thoughts and prayers" will cut it.

[The Black Forrest]

Well? You can full back on it would have happened if the Church hadn’t done what it did.

Where or not it hurt the local Church community is a distraction.

It shows the Church has to make serious amends to the people. Thoughts and prayers and an apology aren’t going to cut it.

Pope Francis has already arranged a meeting with indigenous leaders which will be taking place in December.

Nobody's saying "thoughts and prayers" will cut it.

A meeting is nice. Let’s see what follows.

[Dakini]

It doesn't take away from the atrocities, yet you decide that you must complain more about the church burning than anything else as though these buildings are more important than the children harmed and killed in these schools.

Yeah, keep bullshitting, Dakini.

Me being opposed to Churches being burnt and more people becoming victims (which I've only started talking about today) doesn't make the victimization of First Nations children less important to resolve.

I don't have to bullshit. You're spending all your time in this thread complaining about how oppressed the church is and the only time you say anything about the genocide the church was all too happy to help with is when someone points this out to you.

Maybe the church should pony up the $25 million they agreed to pay in compensation. Maybe they should apologise. Maybe they should stop hiding all the records from these schools. Maybe they shouldn't have desecrated some of these graves by removing the tombstones. Maybe they shouldn't have physically, emotionally and sexually abused children and killed some others in the first place.

[Salus Maior]

Yeah, keep bullshitting, Dakini.

Me being opposed to Churches being burnt and more people becoming victims (which I've only started talking about today) doesn't make the victimization of First Nations children less important to resolve.

I don't have to bullshit. You're spending all your time in this thread complaining about how oppressed the church is and the only time you say anything about the genocide the church was all too happy to help with is when someone points this out to you.

"all my time", you mean the last couple hours where I've dared to say "hey, burning churches is bad and a hate crime"?

I thoroughly believe the Church needs to do the right thing and do everything possible to identify the remains and compensate the First Nations peoples. I've also thoroughly denounced the residential schools as genocidal institutions spurred on by white colonialism, and are comparable to similar schools used by the Turks against Armenian children during the genocide there.

Nothing I've said takes away from the issues of the residential schools.

[Salus Maior]

they shouldn't have physically, emotionally and sexually abused children and killed some others in the first place.

And maybe the Canadian government shouldn't have constructed their law to exclude First Nations people from having human rights, and paying the schools to brutalize these children, then fighting them legally up to the present day.

This isn't me saying that the Catholic Church doesn't carry responsibility for their part in this, but the government has as much blood on their hands when it comes to the suffering of the First Nations.

[Dakini]

I don't have to bullshit. You're spending all your time in this thread complaining about how oppressed the church is and the only time you say anything about the genocide the church was all too happy to help with is when someone points this out to you.

"all my time", you mean the last couple hours where I've dared to say "hey, burning churches is bad and a hate crime"?

I thoroughly believe the Church needs to do the right thing and do everything possible to identify the remains and compensate the First Nations peoples. I've also thoroughly denounced the residential schools as genocidal institutions spurred on by white colonialism, and are comparable to similar schools used by the Turks against Armenian children during the genocide there.

Nothing I've said takes away from the issues of the residential schools.

You were in here deflecting blame from the Catholic church before anyone started burning churches.

[Salus Maior]

"all my time", you mean the last couple hours where I've dared to say "hey, burning churches is bad and a hate crime"?

I thoroughly believe the Church needs to do the right thing and do everything possible to identify the remains and compensate the First Nations peoples. I've also thoroughly denounced the residential schools as genocidal institutions spurred on by white colonialism, and are comparable to similar schools used by the Turks against Armenian children during the genocide there.

Nothing I've said takes away from the issues of the residential schools.

You were in here deflecting blame from the Catholic church before anyone started burning churches.

Ok, why don't you provide the posts, then.

[SD_Film Artists]

I don't have to bullshit. You're spending all your time in this thread complaining about how oppressed the church is and the only time you say anything about the genocide the church was all too happy to help with is when someone points this out to you.

"all my time", you mean the last couple hours where I've dared to say "hey, burning churches is bad and a hate crime"?

I thoroughly believe the Church needs to do the right thing and do everything possible to identify the remains and compensate the First Nations peoples. I've also thoroughly denounced the residential schools as genocidal institutions spurred on by white colonialism, and are comparable to similar schools used by the Turks against Armenian children during the genocide there.

Nothing I've said takes away from the issues of the residential schools.

I think it's also worth noting that even the increasingly woke BBC has covered this issue and in the context of the Canadian schools. It's not as if this is just a right-wing dogwhistle pulled from Braitbart. Indeed I thought that comitting arson against a place of worship based on political prejudice would be a fairly universal thing to condemn regardless of being left or right but we live in interesting times I guess.

[The Black Forrest]

"all my time", you mean the last couple hours where I've dared to say "hey, burning churches is bad and a hate crime"?

I thoroughly believe the Church needs to do the right thing and do everything possible to identify the remains and compensate the First Nations peoples. I've also thoroughly denounced the residential schools as genocidal institutions spurred on by white colonialism, and are comparable to similar schools used by the Turks against Armenian children during the genocide there.

Nothing I've said takes away from the issues of the residential schools.

I think it's also worth noting that even the increasingly woke BBC has covered this issue and in the context of the Canadian schools. It's not as if this is just a right-wing dogwhistle pulled from Braitbart. Indeed I thought that comitting arson against a place of worship based on political prejudice would be a fairly universal thing to condemn regardless of being left or right but we live in interesting times I guess.

Woke? As in the awareness or the the pejorative form?

Arson is indeed the one thing most people agree is a bad thing. The problem? How it’s reported. How often it’s reported could be a distraction to the bigger issue.

[Kubra]

"Improving infrastructure"? Oh *boy*, is this really where we want to start? If you wanna know what "improved infrastructure" means to the indigenous, it involves batoche.
Axes? Who the fuck had axes in 1876? Like, for woodcutting, you mean?

There's something of trope that natives were peace loving innocents before the ebil white man arrived, implying that the tomahawk was only invented when Europeans arrived and that the Aztek empire got to its size by happy trades and treaties. Really there was just as much genocide happening, the only difference is that the Europeans had boats (hense Ifreann asking about why I was talking about boats). Since there is no difference, the only logical conclusion is that when people complain about white colonialism (and ONLY white colonialism, not that of other nations or landgrabs by tribes) what they're really complaining about is boats and people of a different skin colour arriving (sounds a bit racist me thinks). If one wants to talk about genocide entirely within the context then sure, I'd agree it's terrible and completely unjustified.

Ok sure but by 1876 "peace loving" seems to be a fine enough description for, you know, *pacified farmers and day labourers*. You are once again using one period to justifying another.

[Kubra]

I mean they won't want to try and explain themselves because SD and Ostro aren't interested in any of the actual lives in question here or the Canadian context in which they were destroyed. They saw 'European colonialism' being brought up and came riding to the rescue with a barrel full of generic genocide apologism and bizarre ideas about First Nations people now being a privileged minority. Just like last time, whenever they get confronted with the actual details they fall flat because this is just one more front in the anglophobic culture war for them.

Of course all the overarching geopolitics is just a figment of my imagination, it's not as if people are drawing conclusions from the subject enough to burn churches....oh wait.

Though one point against the idea of them being anglophobic crusaders (besides them probably not making the difference between an Englishman and a Canadian) is that they're going after Catholic churches rather than Protestant ones; not that it makes the burning any less deplorable but it does create an odd Venn diagram of where they stand.

Ah! could you tell us the difference between a Canadian and an Englishmen, with emphasis on the year of 1876?

[SD_Film Artists]

I think it's also worth noting that even the increasingly woke BBC has covered this issue and in the context of the Canadian schools. It's not as if this is just a right-wing dogwhistle pulled from Braitbart. Indeed I thought that comitting arson against a place of worship based on political prejudice would be a fairly universal thing to condemn regardless of being left or right but we live in interesting times I guess.

Woke? As in the awareness or the the pejorative form?

Whichever one GBNews tells me to not like.

Arson is indeed the one thing most people agree is a bad thing. The problem? How it’s reported. How often it’s reported could be a distraction to the bigger issue.

It seemed rather balanced in the BBC article, whereas here it seems like-

"h...hey some places of worship are being attacked with arson from political prejudice"

"How DARE you try to ignore the plight of some people who died 30 years ago with your little bleeting about modern so-called hate crimes, you should be ashsaaaamed!"

[SD_Film Artists]

There's something of trope that natives were peace loving innocents before the ebil white man arrived, implying that the tomahawk was only invented when Europeans arrived and that the Aztek empire got to its size by happy trades and treaties. Really there was just as much genocide happening, the only difference is that the Europeans had boats (hense Ifreann asking about why I was talking about boats). Since there is no difference, the only logical conclusion is that when people complain about white colonialism (and ONLY white colonialism, not that of other nations or landgrabs by tribes) what they're really complaining about is boats and people of a different skin colour arriving (sounds a bit racist me thinks). If one wants to talk about genocide entirely within the context then sure, I'd agree it's terrible and completely unjustified.

Ok sure but by 1876 "peace loving" seems to be a fine enough description for, you know, *pacified farmers and day labourers*. You are once again using one period to justifying another.

I meant the general rhetoric used by self-proclaimed anti-colonialists. I'm not specifically justifying any pariod.

[Kubra]

Ok sure but by 1876 "peace loving" seems to be a fine enough description for, you know, *pacified farmers and day labourers*. You are once again using one period to justifying another.

I meant the general rhetoric used by self-proclaimed anti-colonialists. I'm not specifically justifying any pariod.

Then *explain* why this particular period ain't a matter of "ebil white colonialism".

[SD_Film Artists]

Of course all the overarching geopolitics is just a figment of my imagination, it's not as if people are drawing conclusions from the subject enough to burn churches....oh wait.

Though one point against the idea of them being anglophobic crusaders (besides them probably not making the difference between an Englishman and a Canadian) is that they're going after Catholic churches rather than Protestant ones; not that it makes the burning any less deplorable but it does create an odd Venn diagram of where they stand.

Ah! could you tell us the difference between a Canadian and an Englishmen, with emphasis on the year of 1876?

Are you trying to say that the indigenous rights activists (or at least the identity politics wing of it) are living in the past?

[Kubra]

Ah! could you tell us the difference between a Canadian and an Englishmen, with emphasis on the year of 1876?

Are you trying to say that the indigenous rights activists (or at least the identity politics wing of it) are living in the past?

Men make their own history, but they do not make it as they please; they do not make it under self-selected circumstances, but under circumstances existing already, given and transmitted from the past. The tradition of all dead generations weighs like a nightmare on the brains of the living.

[Salus Maior]

Are you trying to say that the indigenous rights activists (or at least the identity politics wing of it) are living in the past?

Indigenous rights issues are still a problem in the present day. So no, they're not.

[SD_Film Artists]

I meant the general rhetoric used by self-proclaimed anti-colonialists. I'm not specifically justifying any pariod.

Then *explain* why this particular period ain't a matter of "ebil white colonialism".

I've already said you were correct on that. The issue is context.

'These schools were- in the past- perpetuated by the establishment which at the time had racist goals. There are also some people- who are of caucasian decent- who are directly culpable and should face justice for the crimes they comitted'- yes

'This is yet more evidence of the original sin of the Whhhhite Man, like always opressing the totally innocent natives who- from Africa to America- never hurt anyone and only invented weapons to fight against Whhhite colonialism as they were totally pacifists beforehand and never comitted genocide or military landgrabs of their own'- no.

[Kubra]

Then *explain* why this particular period ain't a matter of "ebil white colonialism".

I've already said you were correct on that. The issue is context.

'These schools were- in the past- perpatuated by the establishment which at the time had racist goals. There are also some people- who happen to be white- who are directly culpable and should face justice for the crimes they comitted'- yes

'This is yet more evidence of the original sin of the Whhhhite Man, like always opressing the totally innocent natives who- from Africa to America- never hurt anyone and only invented weapons to fight against Whhhite colonialism as they were totally pacifists beforehand and never comitted genocide or military landgraps of their own'- no.

And what, do you think the past a foreign country? A place viewable only in museums?
tell me: have you a good leather belt and salt shaker handy?

never hurt anyone and only invented weapons to fight against Whhhite colonialism as they were totally pacifists beforehand and never comitted genocide or military landgraps of their own'- no.

1876
1876
1876
1876
Do you want me to say it again?
What do you think indigenous people were *doing* in 1876? Because apart from a few cree holdouts it uh, it ain't what you seem to fervently believe.

[SD_Film Artists]

Are you trying to say that the indigenous rights activists (or at least the identity politics wing of it) are living in the past?

Men make their own history, but they do not make it as they please; they do not make it under self-selected circumstances, but under circumstances existing already, given and transmitted from the past. The tradition of all dead generations weighs like a nightmare on the brains of the living.

You don't get the Good Friday Agreement by listening to dead generations. You move forward in modernity.

[Kubra]

Men make their own history, but they do not make it as they please; they do not make it under self-selected circumstances, but under circumstances existing already, given and transmitted from the past. The tradition of all dead generations weighs like a nightmare on the brains of the living.

You don't get the Good Friday Agreement by listening to dead generations. You move forward in modernity.

Funny, it seems like the only fellas who might be put off by the good friday agreements in the sense of looking back would be the unionists. I mean, Sinn Fein made off tidily there, didn't they?

[SD_Film Artists]

I've already said you were correct on that. The issue is context.

'These schools were- in the past- perpatuated by the establishment which at the time had racist goals. There are also some people- who happen to be white- who are directly culpable and should face justice for the crimes they comitted'- yes

'This is yet more evidence of the original sin of the Whhhhite Man, like always opressing the totally innocent natives who- from Africa to America- never hurt anyone and only invented weapons to fight against Whhhite colonialism as they were totally pacifists beforehand and never comitted genocide or military landgraps of their own'- no.

And what, do you think the past a foreign country? A place viewable only in museums?
tell me: have you a good leather belt and salt shaker handy?

never hurt anyone and only invented weapons to fight against Whhhite colonialism as they were totally pacifists beforehand and never comitted genocide or military landgraps of their own'- no.

1876
1876
1876
1876
Do you want me to say it again?
What do you think indigenous people were *doing* in 1876? Because apart from a few cree holdouts it uh, it ain't what you seem to fervently believe.

I'm more interested in 1763.

More to the point, I was again talking about the general political discourse of this and similar subjects rather than what you directly said or what the Canadian natives were or weren't doing in 1876.

[SD_Film Artists]

You don't get the Good Friday Agreement by listening to dead generations. You move forward in modernity.

Funny, it seems like the only fellas who might be put off by the good friday agreements in the sense of looking back would be the unionists. I mean, Sinn Fein made off tidily there, didn't they?

Other posters here would know better than me, but I think that NI has generally benefited from peace regardless of which church they go to.

[Kubra]

And what, do you think the past a foreign country? A place viewable only in museums?
tell me: have you a good leather belt and salt shaker handy?
1876
1876
1876
1876
Do you want me to say it again?
What do you think indigenous people were *doing* in 1876? Because apart from a few cree holdouts it uh, it ain't what you seem to fervently believe.

I'm more interested in 1763.

More to the point, I was again talking about the general political discourse of this and similar subjects rather than what you directly said or what the Canadian natives were or weren't doing in 1876.

You jest, but I think you really *are* more interested in 1763, rather than the actually relevant period.
"general"? Wouldn't then general period involve 1876 and the subsequent decades, rather than your very timely specific "general"?
Could you perhaps conceive of indigenous peoples as something other than a *stereotype*? Because that's what you're doing.