1807 children found buried at former Canadian schools

[Grenartia]

more than half, while the other lot have already apologised.
"My friend", just take the hit. You're the one who burst in with half-knowledge yet decided to speak with an apparent degree of firmness. You should very well know what kind of reaction that generates, man.

I am only posting again to say I add you as a Foe.

Reason: calling me "man". You must be aware that deliberately gendering me puts pressure on me to say my own gender. I have the feeling you would treat me better if I said "girl" and such sexism which chafes against anonymity, is utterly repugnant to me. I don't care your gender. You deliberately gendered me after I asked you not to. You're gone.

To be entirely fair, you can use your sig to indicate your preferences regarding gendered terms. Nobody would know otherwise.

---

On topic, I've said this on discord before, but this really is "Kill the Indian, save the man" taken to its only logical conclusion.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

Some more churches burn down

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-57626410

[Immortan Khan]

An article detailing how the Catholic Church in Canada schemed to avoid paying reparations and how the Catholic community in Canada was indifferent towards attempts to raise funds for reparations. A very...very damning article, in my opinion.

[Greater Cesnica]

An article detailing how the Catholic Church in Canada schemed to avoid paying reparations and how the Catholic community in Canada was indifferent towards attempts to raise funds for reparations. A very...very damning article, in my opinion.

Well, consider that the Catholic Church in Canada is, at the end of the day, a cohesive entity that manages finances and assets. I'm not particularly inclined to view clergymen as altruistic or truly Holy, no matter their attempts to appear as such. The entity just doesn't want to lose its assets. That there were atrocities committed in the distant and near past does not matter to this entity.

Of course, I find such behavior and avoidance of accountability to be utterly reprehensible and cowardly. It's just understandable when viewing the situation through the lenses of this detached, cold entity.

[Immortan Khan]

An article detailing how the Catholic Church in Canada schemed to avoid paying reparations and how the Catholic community in Canada was indifferent towards attempts to raise funds for reparations. A very...very damning article, in my opinion.

Well, consider that the Catholic Church in Canada is, at the end of the day, a cohesive entity that manages finances and assets. I'm not particularly inclined to view clergymen as altruistic or truly Holy, no matter their attempts to appear as such. The entity just doesn't want to lose its assets. That there were atrocities committed in the distant and near past does not matter to this entity.

Of course, I find such behavior and avoidance of accountability to be utterly reprehensible and cowardly. It's just understandable when viewing the situation through the lenses of this detached, cold entity.

Except they didn't even really have to give up any assets. The reparations were mainly to be funded through donation drives among the Catholic community in Canada. It's something that the article touches on. How Saskatoon's Catholic community brought in over $28 million to fund a new cathedral. $356.25 as the average among Saskatoon's Catholic community. Failed to even come close to the $25 million for reparations across all of Canada's Catholics. 30 cents per Catholic raised for that, across all of Canada. This really isn't just a clergy problem.

[Kubra]

Well, consider that the Catholic Church in Canada is, at the end of the day, a cohesive entity that manages finances and assets. I'm not particularly inclined to view clergymen as altruistic or truly Holy, no matter their attempts to appear as such. The entity just doesn't want to lose its assets. That there were atrocities committed in the distant and near past does not matter to this entity.

Of course, I find such behavior and avoidance of accountability to be utterly reprehensible and cowardly. It's just understandable when viewing the situation through the lenses of this detached, cold entity.

Except they didn't even really have to give up any assets. The reparations were mainly to be funded through donation drives among the Catholic community in Canada. It's something that the article touches on. How Saskatoon's Catholic community brought in over $28 million to fund a new cathedral. $356.25 as the average among Saskatoon's Catholic community. Failed to even come close to the $25 million for reparations across all of Canada's Catholics. 30 cents per Catholic raised for that, across all of Canada. This really isn't just a clergy problem.

Not necessarily. By the sounds of it, "fundraising" probably consisted of setting up a box in a corner behind a pillar, with a label "$$ for reparations" written as illegibly as possible.
You know, it seems they figured they didn't actually have to raise the amount, so they put in as little effort as possible yet enough to say that they "really tried".

[Immortan Khan]

Except they didn't even really have to give up any assets. The reparations were mainly to be funded through donation drives among the Catholic community in Canada. It's something that the article touches on. How Saskatoon's Catholic community brought in over $28 million to fund a new cathedral. $356.25 as the average among Saskatoon's Catholic community. Failed to even come close to the $25 million for reparations across all of Canada's Catholics. 30 cents per Catholic raised for that, across all of Canada. This really isn't just a clergy problem.

Not necessarily. By the sounds of it, "fundraising" probably consisted of setting up a box in a corner behind a pillar, with a label "$$ for reparations" written as illegibly as possible.
You know, it seems they figured they didn't actually have to raise the amount, so they put in as little effort as possible yet enough to say that they "really tried".

Do not give the laity a pass when they raised over 28 million for a shitty looking cathedral from one city's community.

[Immortan Khan]

Also I forgot to post this here last week, but yeah there are still people it seems making the "they did good things" argument.

[Kubra]

Not necessarily. By the sounds of it, "fundraising" probably consisted of setting up a box in a corner behind a pillar, with a label "$$ for reparations" written as illegibly as possible.
You know, it seems they figured they didn't actually have to raise the amount, so they put in as little effort as possible yet enough to say that they "really tried".

Do not give the laity a pass when they raised over 28 million for a shitty looking cathedral from one city's community.

Well you know how it is, often the difference between the charities we donate to and the ones we don't are how well they ambush us and market to us. You just know that church was worked into every sermon, and the priests would stare judgingly at whoever held the plate.

[Salus Maior]

Also I forgot to post this here last week, but yeah there are still people it seems making the "they did good things" argument.

....Why you do this.

[Dylar]

and the priests would stare judgingly at whoever held the plate.

Except they don't. Had you actually been to a Catholic Mass, you'd know that while the collection baskets were passed around the congregation, the priest would be busy setting up the altar for Holy Communion. Further, I have not tithed over the last year for financial reasons and I have yet to see any of my parish's priests, or any other priest from any other church I've visited, judgingly stare at me or any other member of the congregation during Mass

[Greater Cesnica]

Also I forgot to post this here last week, but yeah there are still people it seems making the "they did good things" argument.

....Why you do this.

Using the "both sides" tactic is wildly popular at the moment.

[Kubra]

and the priests would stare judgingly at whoever held the plate.

Except they don't. Had you actually been to a Catholic Mass, you'd know that while the collection baskets were passed around the congregation, the priest would be busy setting up the altar for Holy Communion. Further, I have not tithed over the last year for financial reasons and I have yet to see any of my parish's priests, or any other priest from any other church I've visited, judgingly stare at me or any other member of the congregation during Mass

apart from the satirical nature of the post, oh boy you're *really* doing yourself a favour here.
Hoo boy, sorry Khan, maybe you were right about the laity shouldering a fair chunk of blame here.

[Resilient Acceleration]

Dunno is this has been brought into light, but update: more has been discovered.

Now, a new discovery offers chilling evidence that many of the missing children may have died at these schools: The remains of as many as 751 people, mainly Indigenous children, were found at the site of a former school in the province of Saskatchewan, an Indigenous group said on Thursday.

The burial site, the largest one to date, was uncovered only weeks after the remains of 215 children were found in unmarked graves on the grounds of another former church-run school for Indigenous students in British Columbia.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/24/worl ... 0p19G=2103

[Dylar]

Except they don't. Had you actually been to a Catholic Mass, you'd know that while the collection baskets were passed around the congregation, the priest would be busy setting up the altar for Holy Communion. Further, I have not tithed over the last year for financial reasons and I have yet to see any of my parish's priests, or any other priest from any other church I've visited, judgingly stare at me or any other member of the congregation during Mass

apart from the satirical nature of the post, oh boy you're *really* doing yourself a favour here.
Hoo boy, sorry Khan, maybe you were right about the laity shouldering a fair chunk of blame here.

Somehow correcting a mistake you made, that I mistakenly thought as being a legit take, makes me share the blame for the egregious crimes committed at these schools.

Good to fucking know

[Kubra]

apart from the satirical nature of the post, oh boy you're *really* doing yourself a favour here.
Hoo boy, sorry Khan, maybe you were right about the laity shouldering a fair chunk of blame here.

Somehow correcting a mistake you made, that I mistakenly thought as being a legit take, makes me share the blame for the egregious crimes committed at these schools.

Good to fucking know

I'm terribly sorry, I was under the impression that you were *following the conversation*. You know, regarding the failure to raise funds.
Since my defense of the laity has been thoroughly debunked, surely you will need to tell us why casting blame here is incorrect.

[Salus Maior]

and the priests would stare judgingly at whoever held the plate.

Except they don't. Had you actually been to a Catholic Mass, you'd know that while the collection baskets were passed around the congregation, the priest would be busy setting up the altar for Holy Communion. Further, I have not tithed over the last year for financial reasons and I have yet to see any of my parish's priests, or any other priest from any other church I've visited, judgingly stare at me or any other member of the congregation during Mass

Same. I've never felt pressured to tithe.

[Bear Stearns]

Do not give the laity a pass when they raised over 28 million for a shitty looking cathedral from one city's community.

Well you know how it is, often the difference between the charities we donate to and the ones we don't are how well they ambush us and market to us. You just know that church was worked into every sermon, and the priests would stare judgingly at whoever held the plate.

this is pretty tame on the list of crappy things catholics have done

[Salus Maior]

Well, consider that the Catholic Church in Canada is, at the end of the day, a cohesive entity that manages finances and assets. I'm not particularly inclined to view clergymen as altruistic or truly Holy, no matter their attempts to appear as such. The entity just doesn't want to lose its assets. That there were atrocities committed in the distant and near past does not matter to this entity.

Of course, I find such behavior and avoidance of accountability to be utterly reprehensible and cowardly. It's just understandable when viewing the situation through the lenses of this detached, cold entity.

Except they didn't even really have to give up any assets. The reparations were mainly to be funded through donation drives among the Catholic community in Canada. It's something that the article touches on. How Saskatoon's Catholic community brought in over $28 million to fund a new cathedral. $356.25 as the average among Saskatoon's Catholic community. Failed to even come close to the $25 million for reparations across all of Canada's Catholics. 30 cents per Catholic raised for that, across all of Canada. This really isn't just a clergy problem.

Well, I think that shows something about human nature rather than Catholics in particular. We're comparing one thing, which the parishioners would directly benefit from (the Cathedral) with donating to something where they'll likely never see results from.

That's not me defending it, but rather saying I think most people would do the same. Which is tragic.

[Kubra]

Except they didn't even really have to give up any assets. The reparations were mainly to be funded through donation drives among the Catholic community in Canada. It's something that the article touches on. How Saskatoon's Catholic community brought in over $28 million to fund a new cathedral. $356.25 as the average among Saskatoon's Catholic community. Failed to even come close to the $25 million for reparations across all of Canada's Catholics. 30 cents per Catholic raised for that, across all of Canada. This really isn't just a clergy problem.

Well, I think that shows something about human nature rather than Catholics in particular. We're comparing one thing, which the parishioners would directly benefit from (the Cathedral) with donating to something where they'll likely never see results from.

That's not me defending it, but rather saying I think most people would do the same. Which is tragic.

the Anglicans also had to fundraise and got nearly twice what the Catholic Church did, despite being four times smaller.

[Greater Cesnica]

Good to see that the OP has been updated.

[Immortan Khan]

Except they didn't even really have to give up any assets. The reparations were mainly to be funded through donation drives among the Catholic community in Canada. It's something that the article touches on. How Saskatoon's Catholic community brought in over $28 million to fund a new cathedral. $356.25 as the average among Saskatoon's Catholic community. Failed to even come close to the $25 million for reparations across all of Canada's Catholics. 30 cents per Catholic raised for that, across all of Canada. This really isn't just a clergy problem.

Well, I think that shows something about human nature rather than Catholics in particular. We're comparing one thing, which the parishioners would directly benefit from (the Cathedral) with donating to something where they'll likely never see results from.

That's not me defending it, but rather saying I think most people would do the same. Which is tragic.

The other churches reached their respective goals. One of them just gave it all upfront so that they couldn't get it back in case one of the churches didn't follow through.

[Greater Cesnica]

Except they didn't even really have to give up any assets. The reparations were mainly to be funded through donation drives among the Catholic community in Canada. It's something that the article touches on. How Saskatoon's Catholic community brought in over $28 million to fund a new cathedral. $356.25 as the average among Saskatoon's Catholic community. Failed to even come close to the $25 million for reparations across all of Canada's Catholics. 30 cents per Catholic raised for that, across all of Canada. This really isn't just a clergy problem.

Well, I think that shows something about human nature rather than Catholics in particular. We're comparing one thing, which the parishioners would directly benefit from (the Cathedral) with donating to something where they'll likely never see results from.

That's not me defending it, but rather saying I think most people would do the same. Which is tragic.

This whole situation is just fucked up.

[Ayytaly]

As someone of First Nations descent, I have to say something: This is less on the religion and more on European colonialism in general. This is the result of narcissistic racists subjugating an entire people based on looks and tradition. Regardless of what religion they followed (if at all), they would deliberately change its context and claim divine right to commit their atrocities.

Most of them never opened the Bible; they merely stood on them just to look down on us.

It's been over 500 years, and my people's blood is still fresh on their hands.

[Greater Cesnica]

As someone of First Nations descent, I have to say something: This is less on the religion and more on European colonialism in general. This is the result of narcissistic racists subjugating an entire people based on looks and tradition. Regardless of what religion they followed (if at all), they would deliberately change its context and claim divine right to commit their atrocities.

Most of them never opened the Bible; they merely stood on them just to look down on us.

It's been over 500 years, and my people's blood is still fresh on their hands.

Religion has always been used as an excuse to perpetrate atrocities. That the indigenous peoples of the world continue to experience discrimination and face challenges even in the presence of secular governance proves that religion itself did not motivate these crimes.