Wuhan Lab Might be COVID Origin

[Nilokeras]

There's no new evidence to support a lab leak. The 'increased pressure' to investigate the origins of COVID are entirely political in nature.

[Resilient Acceleration]

Yes, I knew that the US will say something like thus one day. Man, I understand that America is extremely jealous because China has managed to contain the Covid-19 virus

What makes you so sure that China, an actual fascist dictatorship, isn't lying about its numbers like North Korea (probably) or Turkmenistan are?

It's a two-edged sword. On one hand, 'communist' dictatorships such as China (or to pick a better example, Vietnam) can freely oppress the poor and working class as they see fit and thus is able to implement the strictest measures of early quarantine, Orwellian surveillance, and monitoring. On the other hand, the lack of transparency means that there isn't really much incentive to save people for the sake of saving people, with economic and political stability being of a primary concern.

[Whitemore]

*grabs popcorn*

This thread will be fun to watch. Let's see just how many people jump to a conclusion first before any proper investigation can be started.

I love me some popcorn threads! That said, I'd encourage posters to cite legitimate sources, like the Hill, or heck even their own past NSG posts, before they jump the gun. Also, the OP's really clear that the investigation's still ongoing.

Oh of course. But people on a certain side will jump on the chance to point at China and pretend to be right without fact, when all they did was listen to Radio Hosts talk for the fun of it. It's always fun to watch.

[Shofercia]

I love me some popcorn threads! That said, I'd encourage posters to cite legitimate sources, like the Hill, or heck even their own past NSG posts, before they jump the gun. Also, the OP's really clear that the investigation's still ongoing.

Oh of course. But people on a certain side will jump on the chance to point at China and pretend to be right without fact, when all they did was listen to Radio Hosts talk for the fun of it. It's always fun to watch.

Thus far the discussion's flowing smoothly and we're already on the second page!

[Whitemore]

Oh of course. But people on a certain side will jump on the chance to point at China and pretend to be right without fact, when all they did was listen to Radio Hosts talk for the fun of it. It's always fun to watch.

Thus far the discussion's flowing smoothly and we're already on the second page!

We've already had one person say they knew they were right on the first page.

[Nakena]

There's no new evidence to support a lab leak. The 'increased pressure' to investigate the origins of COVID are entirely political in nature.

This was all known already a year ago and nobody wanted to talk about it back then or look closer into it. Because the consequence would have been likely war and Trump was a corward to face that possibility. I still believe the US government knows more than it admits but is reluctant to release the info.

[Sannyamathland]

Because, the WHO has agreed with the numbers that China provided. The fact that China has been able to contain the virus is universally known now, I fail to understand from where you are getting the data that China is trying to hide it's numbers. Or is this out of pure jealousy?

Oh, I didn't know that about the WHO.

And no, this isn't out of jealousy? What would I have to be jealous about, that the US isn't exterminating religious minorities as efficiently as the PRC?

*sigh* Alas, that's for another thread.

This Uighur thing is another dogshit theory being proposed by the Western media, and I will never acknowledge that anything of that sort ever happened. But yes, let me stop right here, because this is for other threads.

Speaking of the US, the dark skinned people are a minority community. I don't know whether you already knew this fact or not, so just informed you in case you don't.

[Rusozak]

For one, the Chinese people themselves will obviously not be very happy about it.

Like they'll ever find out. Everything not from the "all knowing" CCP is "western propaganda" after all.

Oh, I didn't know that about the WHO.

And no, this isn't out of jealousy? What would I have to be jealous about, that the US isn't exterminating religious minorities as efficiently as the PRC?

*sigh* Alas, that's for another thread.

This Uighur thing is another dogshit theory being proposed by the Western media, and I will never acknowledge that anything of that sort ever happened. But yes, let me stop right here, because this is for other threads.

Speaking of the US, the dark skinned people are a minority community. I don't know whether you already knew this fact or not, so just informed you in case you don't.

Case in point. Positions that dismiss a lab leak as an impossibility conjured up as propaganda shouldn't be taken too seriously.

[Nilokeras]

There's no new evidence to support a lab leak. The 'increased pressure' to investigate the origins of COVID are entirely political in nature.

This was all known already a year ago and nobody wanted to talk about it back then or look closer into it. Because the consequence would have been likely war and Trump was a corward to face that possibility. I still believe the US government knows more than it admits but is reluctant to release the info.

I doubt it. There's not particularly strong evidence of viral escape in the public sphere and it's unlikely there's any smoking gun out there.

[-SARS-]

There's no new evidence to support a lab leak. The 'increased pressure' to investigate the origins of COVID are entirely political in nature.

This was all known already a year ago and nobody wanted to talk about it back then or look closer into it. Because the consequence would have been likely war and Trump was a corward to face that possibility. I still believe the US government knows more than it admits but is reluctant to release the info.

Imagine if Ebola Reston was deadly and contagious enough to cause a pandemic. And imagine if someone started a war over it. It'd be a horrible thing to do.

[Picairn]

This Uighur thing is another dogshit theory being proposed by the Western media, and I will never acknowledge that anything of that sort ever happened. But yes, let me stop right here, because this is for other threads.

Ah willful denial, against the mountain of evidence.

[Shofercia]

This was all known already a year ago and nobody wanted to talk about it back then or look closer into it. Because the consequence would have been likely war and Trump was a corward to face that possibility. I still believe the US government knows more than it admits but is reluctant to release the info.

Imagine if Ebola Reston was deadly and contagious enough to cause a pandemic. And imagine if someone started a war over it. It'd be a horrible thing to do.

I believe the question is, or at least should be, whether or not we should continue with Gain of Function Research, and if it was developed in a lab and leaked from said lab, should we fine all those involved and redistribute the fine among small business owners, rather than "lolz, let's go to warz!" What's your take on it -SARS- should we continue to mutate you?

[Tsaivao]

I will wait for an actual investigation before I take part in the NSG pastime of wild conjecture and China/US-slamming.

With that said, I personally think it was natural, and even if scientists got sick from it before many earlier civilian cases in Wuhan, COVID could still be a natural strain that was improperly handled by researchers. I highly doubt that COVID is synthetic

[Drongonia]

I think the usually dog and pony media show happened, where we had two equally likely hypothesis, but the media pretended that one was the absolute truth and the other was a raving mad conspiracy theory, so I'm glad that today, more than a year after the fact, real scientists are acknowledging that both theories should be taken seriously.

I would basically agree with this, yeah.

[-SARS-]

This Uighur thing is another dogshit theory being proposed by the Western media, and I will never acknowledge that anything of that sort ever happened. But yes, let me stop right here, because this is for other threads.

Ah willful denial, against the mountain of evidence.

The fact that those stories about the Uighurs have gotten around is evidence for this:

What makes you so sure that China, an actual fascist dictatorship, isn't lying about its numbers like North Korea (probably) or Turkmenistan are?

Even if they have fudged things, there is a limit to how much you can fudge before it becomes obvious. I don't know if China's official figures are 100% accurate, but it's pretty safe to say that China controlled the virus more successfully than the US. If they had huge outbreaks overflowing hospitals and overflowing the morgues -- as some US cities had when they were at their worst -- that news would have leaked by now.

I mean, I dunno exactly what is going on in Xinjiang, but the fact that we know something is going on shows the limits of China's ability to sweep things under the rug.

[Atheris]

Ah willful denial, against the mountain of evidence.

The fact that those stories about the Uighurs have gotten around is evidence for this:

Even if they have fudged things, there is a limit to how much you can fudge before it becomes obvious. I don't know if China's official figures are 100% accurate, but it's pretty safe to say that China controlled the virus more successfully than the US. If they had huge outbreaks overflowing hospitals and overflowing the morgues -- as some US cities had when they were at their worst -- that news would have leaked by now.

I mean, I dunno exactly what is going on in Xinjiang, but the fact that we know something is going on shows the limits of China's ability to sweep things under the rug.

Fair.

[-SARS-]

Imagine if Ebola Reston was deadly and contagious enough to cause a pandemic. And imagine if someone started a war over it. It'd be a horrible thing to do.

I believe the question is, or at least should be, whether or not we should continue with Gain of Function Research, and if it was developed in a lab and leaked from said lab, should we fine all those involved and redistribute the fine among small business owners, rather than "lolz, let's go to warz!" What's your take on it -SARS- should we continue to mutate you?

I am fine the way I am. Mutations happen, but there is no need to force these things.

[Shofercia]

I believe the question is, or at least should be, whether or not we should continue with Gain of Function Research, and if it was developed in a lab and leaked from said lab, should we fine all those involved and redistribute the fine among small business owners, rather than "lolz, let's go to warz!" What's your take on it -SARS- should we continue to mutate you?

I am fine the way I am. Mutations happen, but there is no need to force these things.

Fair enough. I think that this should be played at least once a day in all Gain of Function research facilities: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wV1FrqwZyKw

[Nilokeras]

I believe the question is, or at least should be, whether or not we should continue with Gain of Function Research, and if it was developed in a lab and leaked from said lab,

The thing to remember is that it's an entirely unnecessary layer of assumptions for a virus like COVID to have emerged from a lab when normal zoonotic transmission is entirely adequate at explaining it.

[Kowani]

will effortpost tomorrow, but for now: unconvinced

[Sannyamathland]

I believe the question is, or at least should be, whether or not we should continue with Gain of Function Research, and if it was developed in a lab and leaked from said lab,

The thing to remember is that it's an entirely unnecessary layer of assumptions for a virus like COVID to have emerged from a lab when normal zoonotic transmission is entirely adequate at explaining it.

Well they will still go about claiming, in spite of the absence of a sound logical explanation, that the virus was created in China, because China is a bad guy! To be honest, it's nothing but a sick political campaign against China.

[Tsaivao]

I believe the question is, or at least should be, whether or not we should continue with Gain of Function Research, and if it was developed in a lab and leaked from said lab,

The thing to remember is that it's an entirely unnecessary layer of assumptions for a virus like COVID to have emerged from a lab when normal zoonotic transmission is entirely adequate at explaining it.

Occam's Razor's a bitch ain't it?

The thing to remember is that it's an entirely unnecessary layer of assumptions for a virus like COVID to have emerged from a lab when normal zoonotic transmission is entirely adequate at explaining it.

Well they are still go about claiming, in spite of the absence of a sound logical explanation, that the virus was created in China, because China is a bad guy!

I mean, let's not go downplaying what the Chinese government has done before. As I've said, while it's unlikely COVID was synthetic or genetically-modified, an investigation into whether it was a leak from the lab or just natural consequence is a good thing to try and figure out.

[Resilient Acceleration]

The thing to remember is that it's an entirely unnecessary layer of assumptions for a virus like COVID to have emerged from a lab when normal zoonotic transmission is entirely adequate at explaining it.

Occam's Razor's a bitch ain't it.

I mean China already have a robust institution—the wet markets—that periodically unleashes deadly plagues from time to time. The risk factor was incredibly and universally obvious, with historical precedent, it's basically a ticking time bomb near-certain to explode (which it did, based on the now still accepted theory).

[Nilokeras]

The thing to remember is that it's an entirely unnecessary layer of assumptions for a virus like COVID to have emerged from a lab when normal zoonotic transmission is entirely adequate at explaining it.

Occam's Razor's a bitch ain't it?

Especially when you consider the circumstantial evidence at play here. Specifically that staff at the WIV showed flu-like symptoms in late 2019, which could entirely be a function of the fact that they are under increased surveillance for unusual symptoms because of their place of work. The simplest and best explanation at the moment is that COVID was already in circulation from whatever initial zoonotic starting point in late 2019 and the staff were among the 'first' clusters identified purely because they had health surveillance already looking at them, not because they were the source.

[Nilokeras]

Occam's Razor's a bitch ain't it.

I mean China already have a robust institution—the wet markets—that periodically unleashes deadly plagues from time to time. The risk factor was already incredibly obvious, with historical precedent, it's basically a ticking time bomb.

We have them too. We call them farmers' markets, county fairs and fishmongers. It's not like our viral surveillance is any better - the fact that we think ours are 'cleaner' comes purely from our own aesthetic perception of exotic eastern markets as being dirtier.