Five Oregon Counties vote to Join Idaho

[Neutraligon]

I wonder how many cannabis farmers are in those areas, because while it is legal to buy and sell in Oregon, it is illegal in Idaho.

[San Lumen]

Yes it does. why should two thirds of their land go to another state without the elected government chosen in a free and fair getting a say in the matter?

Without such a measure states could breakup on a whim heck you might as well say the Confederacy should have been allowed to leave. They chose to leave via a vote of the legislature because they didn't;t like that Lincoln won and knew slavery the backbone of their economy was in jeopardy.

How is that different?

The local governments are freely and legally elected.

The Confederacy left the Union. These counties are remaining in the Union, they just want to switch from one state to another.

and so is the state legislature. Democracy doesn;t mean you whine and moan about losing an election. You accept it and move on and work with the legislature. Why should they willing give away two thirds of their land?

Staten Island voted years ago to succeed from NYC and become its own county again. Albany never gave it the time of day.

[Proctopeo]

Show me, then.

You have never heard or read it? Ok. A quick google and we have a shirt. Probably one of the denizens of walmart

https://www.reddit.com/r/ShitAmericansS ... e_it_move/

If an oddly specific shirt is your best evidence...

Nobody will stop. Especially not when people justify their participation by saying that it won't stop anyways. People refusing to participate is the one way it will stop.

Ok. When you stop; I will

I've been actively rejecting this hyperpartisan bullshit game for quite a while.

Democracy doesn;t mean you whine and moan about losing an election.

That's been standard policy for years now.

Staten Island voted years ago to succeed from NYC and become its own county again. Albany never gave it the time of day.

And that was wrong and anti-democratic of them. Why do you think that it's good that people's democratic will was completely ignored?

[Salus Maior]

The local governments are freely and legally elected.

The Confederacy left the Union. These counties are remaining in the Union, they just want to switch from one state to another.

and so is the state legislature. Democracy doesn;t mean you whine and moan about losing an election. You accept it and move on and work with the legislature. Why should they willing give away two thirds of their land?

Staten Island voted years ago to succeed from NYC and become its own county again. Albany never gave it the time of day.

Democracy means that the people are sovereign, not the state. And it's not the state's land, it belongs to the people that live there.

Isn't it funny now that I'm making arguments for peoples' political rights while you're arguing about land?

Albany then denied Staten Island its right to determine its own condition, and stomped on democratic process. That's not an argument that supports you, or the idea that this country is democratic.

[San Lumen]

You have never heard or read it? Ok. A quick google and we have a shirt. Probably one of the denizens of walmart

https://www.reddit.com/r/ShitAmericansS ... e_it_move/

If an oddly specific shirt is your best evidence...

Ok. When you stop; I will

I've been actively rejecting this hyperpartisan bullshit game for quite a while.

Democracy doesn;t mean you whine and moan about losing an election.

That's been standard policy for years now.

Staten Island voted years ago to succeed from NYC and become its own county again. Albany never gave it the time of day.

And that was wrong and anti-democratic of them. Why do you think that it's good that people's democratic will was completely ignored?

Staten Island is still part of NYC. No further referendums have been held. It went nowhere and neither will this. It was a protest vote.

Oregon is under no obligation to give away two thirds of their land to another state. Stunts should not be given the time of day.

If they don't like it move or elect new people who will work with the majority in Salem and not act like toddlers.

[The Reformed American Republic]

and so is the state legislature. Democracy doesn;t mean you whine and moan about losing an election. You accept it and move on and work with the legislature. Why should they willing give away two thirds of their land?

Staten Island voted years ago to succeed from NYC and become its own county again. Albany never gave it the time of day.

Democracy means that the people are sovereign, not the state. And it's not the state's land, it belongs to the people that live there.

Isn't it funny now that I'm making arguments for peoples' political rights while you're arguing about land?

Albany then denied Staten Island its right to determine its own condition, and stomped on democratic process. That's not an argument that supports you, or the idea that this country is democratic.

Our country isn't democratic at all. At best it's an oligarchy now and there isn't a viable political movement to change that.

[Salus Maior]

Staten Island is still part of NYC. No further referendums have been held. It went nowhere and neither will this. It was a protest vote.

Oregon is under no obligation to give away two thirds of their land to another state. Stunts should not be given the time of day.

If they don't like it move or elect new people who will work with the majority in Salem and not act like toddlers.

Why should referendums be held if they're not taken seriously? If democratic expression can just be ignored?

Calling the majorities of multiple counties expressing their will to separate from their state a "stunt" just shows how little respect you actually have towards genuine democratic action, and is an excellent example for why this country is as degraded as it is.

You are a cynical, unprincipled player in partisanism with no respect towards the peoples' will unless it happens to be people you agree with. Disgraceful, I hope you never run for office.

[San Lumen]

Staten Island is still part of NYC. No further referendums have been held. It went nowhere and neither will this. It was a protest vote.

Oregon is under no obligation to give away two thirds of their land to another state. Stunts should not be given the time of day.

If they don't like it move or elect new people who will work with the majority in Salem and not act like toddlers.

Why should referendums be held if they're not taken seriously? If democratic expression can just be ignored?

Calling the majorities of multiple counties expressing their will to separate from their state a "stunt" just shows how little respect you actually have towards genuine democratic action, and is an excellent example for why this country is as degraded as it is.

You are a cynical, unprincipled player in partisanism with no respect towards the peoples' will unless it happens to be people you agree with. Disgraceful, I hope you never run for office.

So the state should just give away two thirds of their land? Should the people in blue counties who vote Republican have a separate government for them?

[Salus Maior]

So the state should just give away two thirds of their land? Should the people in blue counties who vote Republican have a separate government for them?

If they want to join a separate state and they have a passing vote, then the democratic principle would obligate that the peoples' will be followed and put into action. Why do states' rights matter over peoples' rights to you suddenly?

Guess you're really not that much different from Republicans in their "states' rights" spiel, huh?

[San Lumen]

So the state should just give away two thirds of their land? Should the people in blue counties who vote Republican have a separate government for them?

If they want to join a separate state and they have a passing vote, why not? Why do states' rights matter over peoples' rights to you suddenly?

Guess you're really not that much different from Republicans in their "states' rights" spiel, huh?

Because it would set a dangerous precedent of breaking up states based on political lines. Should the three C's in Ohio breakaway from the state? What about the metro areas of North Carolina?

Democracy doesn't mean you pack up and leave if you don't get your way. You have representation in a rural area. Don;t like it vote for new people or move to another state.

[Proctopeo]

If an oddly specific shirt is your best evidence...


I've been actively rejecting this hyperpartisan bullshit game for quite a while.


That's been standard policy for years now.


And that was wrong and anti-democratic of them. Why do you think that it's good that people's democratic will was completely ignored?

Staten Island is still part of NYC. No further referendums have been held. It went nowhere and neither will this. It was a protest vote.

Oregon is under no obligation to give away two thirds of their land to another state. Stunts should not be given the time of day.

If they don't like it move or elect new people who will work with the majority in Salem and not act like toddlers.

The fact that you consider people exercising their democratic will to be "stunts" or """"acting like toddlers"""" isn't surprising, since you've been against democracy for many years now. This does not excuse the inherently oppressive nature of such a belief, but context helps it make sense.

So the state should just give away two thirds of their land? Should the people in blue counties who vote Republican have a separate government for them?

Yes, if they want it.

So the state should just give away two thirds of their land? Should the people in blue counties who vote Republican have a separate government for them?

If they want to join a separate state and they have a passing vote, why not? Why do states' rights matter over peoples' rights to you suddenly?

Guess you're really not that much different from Republicans in their "states' rights" spiel, huh?

It's pretty simple. He only cares about the rights of people when they agree with them. When they disagree, he wants them to get fucked over.

[San Lumen]

Staten Island is still part of NYC. No further referendums have been held. It went nowhere and neither will this. It was a protest vote.

Oregon is under no obligation to give away two thirds of their land to another state. Stunts should not be given the time of day.

If they don't like it move or elect new people who will work with the majority in Salem and not act like toddlers.

The fact that you consider people exercising their democratic will to be "stunts" or """"acting like toddlers"""" isn't surprising, since you've been against democracy for many years now. This does not excuse the inherently oppressive nature of such a belief, but context helps it make sense.

So the state should just give away two thirds of their land? Should the people in blue counties who vote Republican have a separate government for them?

Yes, if they want it.

If they want to join a separate state and they have a passing vote, why not? Why do states' rights matter over peoples' rights to you suddenly?

Guess you're really not that much different from Republicans in their "states' rights" spiel, huh?

It's pretty simple. He only cares about the rights of people when they agree with them. When they disagree, he wants them to get fucked over.

So Oregon is obligated to give away two thirds of their land? How would that separate government even work? its not even remotely practical. In a democracy you have an election and whoever gets the most votes is the victor. There is no separate government for those who voted another way.

[South Americanastan]

The fact that you consider people exercising their democratic will to be "stunts" or """"acting like toddlers"""" isn't surprising, since you've been against democracy for many years now. This does not excuse the inherently oppressive nature of such a belief, but context helps it make sense.


Yes, if they want it.


It's pretty simple. He only cares about the rights of people when they agree with them. When they disagree, he wants them to get fucked over.

So Oregon is obligated to give away two thirds of their land? How would that separate government even work? its not even remotely practical. In a democracy you have an election and whoever gets the most votes is the victor. There is no separate government for those who voted another way.

If that;s what the populace wants, then yes. Yes they are.

[Salus Maior]

If they want to join a separate state and they have a passing vote, why not? Why do states' rights matter over peoples' rights to you suddenly?

Guess you're really not that much different from Republicans in their "states' rights" spiel, huh?

Because it would set a dangerous precedent of breaking up states based on political lines. Should the three C's in Ohio breakaway from the state? What about the metro areas of North Carolina?

Democracy doesn't mean you pack up and leave if you don't get your way. You have representation in a rural area. Don;t like it vote for new people or move to another state.

Democracy means that the people have the power to determine the shape of their government. Which means, that if the people, in a passing majority, express something that has to be followed in order to uphold the democratic principle.

Switzerland understands this, they put this into action. They literally created an entirely new canton (equivalent to a State) because of a referendum in the 70's, and even today some communes (equivalent to a county) are voting to join the new canton, Jura, from Bern. They're dedicated to upholding the democratic principle, and they're not collapsing. In fact, they're far better than us in happiness and satisfaction with their government.

You can either uphold the democratic principle and respect the expression of the people, or you don't. You're arguing for not upholding the democratic principle, and so you can't argue that you uphold the will of the people.

[Proctopeo]

The fact that you consider people exercising their democratic will to be "stunts" or """"acting like toddlers"""" isn't surprising, since you've been against democracy for many years now. This does not excuse the inherently oppressive nature of such a belief, but context helps it make sense.


Yes, if they want it.


It's pretty simple. He only cares about the rights of people when they agree with them. When they disagree, he wants them to get fucked over.

So Oregon is obligated to give away two thirds of their land?

Morally, yes.

How would that separate government even work?

As any part of Idaho does, I'd assume.

its not even remotely practical.

I don't see how. The hardest part would be updating maps.

[San Lumen]

So Oregon is obligated to give away two thirds of their land? How would that separate government even work? its not even remotely practical. In a democracy you have an election and whoever gets the most votes is the victor. There is no separate government for those who voted another way.

If that;s what the populace wants, then yes. Yes they are.

The people of California voted to ban same sex marriage years ago. Should the court have just said the people voted oh well even though its unconstitutional?

[San Lumen]

So Oregon is obligated to give away two thirds of their land?

Morally, yes.

How would that separate government even work?

As any part of Idaho does, I'd assume.

its not even remotely practical.

I don't see how. The hardest part would be updating maps.

No. How does this separate government for the people who vote Republican in blue counties work? Are they now subject to a different government?

[Salus Maior]

So Oregon is obligated to give away two thirds of their land? How would that separate government even work? its not even remotely practical. In a democracy you have an election and whoever gets the most votes is the victor. There is no separate government for those who voted another way.

They're not looking to set up a separate government. They want to join Idaho.

[San Lumen]

So Oregon is obligated to give away two thirds of their land? How would that separate government even work? its not even remotely practical. In a democracy you have an election and whoever gets the most votes is the victor. There is no separate government for those who voted another way.

They're not looking to set up a separate government. They want to join Idaho.

Then freaking move to Idaho or shut up and stop whining.

[South Americanastan]

If that;s what the populace wants, then yes. Yes they are.

The people of California voted to ban same sex marriage years ago. Should the court have just said the people voted oh well even though its unconstitutional?

A. There is nothing in the constitution that ensures the legality of same sex marriages
B. Yes.

[Salus Maior]

They're not looking to set up a separate government. They want to join Idaho.

Then freaking move to Idaho or shut up and stop whining.

You need to stop repeating this. It's a bad argument for reasons that have been stated multiple times.

Their counties can cede to Idaho.

[San Lumen]

The people of California voted to ban same sex marriage years ago. Should the court have just said the people voted oh well even though its unconstitutional?

A. There is nothing in the constitution that ensures the legality of same sex marriages
B. Yes.

wow ok. So rights should just be able to be taken away by a vote of the people? It violated the 14th amendment.

Then freaking move to Idaho or shut up and stop whining.

You need to stop repeating this. It's a bad argument for reasons that have been stated multiple times.

Their counties can cede to Idaho.

Or they could just move. No one is forcing them to stay there. Plenty of other people move why can't these people?

[South Americanastan]

A. There is nothing in the constitution that ensures the legality of same sex marriages
B. Yes.

wow ok. So rights should just be able to be taken away by a vote of the people? It violated the 14th amendment.

You need to stop repeating this. It's a bad argument for reasons that have been stated multiple times.

Their counties can cede to Idaho.

Or they could just move. No one is forcing them to stay there. Plenty of other people move why can't these people?

Show me exactly where in the 14th amendment it says that.

[Proctopeo]

You need to stop repeating this. It's a bad argument for reasons that have been stated multiple times.

Their counties can cede to Idaho.

Or they could just move. No one is forcing them to stay there. Plenty of other people move why can't these people?

Personally, I'm impressed that you repeated a bullshit argument right after you got called out for constantly repeating it.

That takes something. I don't know what, but definitely something.

[San Lumen]

wow ok. So rights should just be able to be taken away by a vote of the people? It violated the 14th amendment.



Or they could just move. No one is forcing them to stay there. Plenty of other people move why can't these people?

Show me exactly where in the 14th amendment it says that.

No state shall deny any person the equal protection of the law or due process of the law.