Five Oregon Counties vote to Join Idaho

[Punished UMN]

Because it's their land and they live on it.

That’s now how it works. I own land. I can’t declare I want to be a part of Hawaii

I mean that's basically how the US got Hawaii.

[Salus Maior]

Because it's their land and they live on it.

Then sell it and freaking move to Idaho. No one is keeping them there against their will.

Multiple counties should empty just because Oregon wants to keep land?

[San Lumen]

isn't it oregon's land

Oregon isn't a person, it doesn't live on land. Legal constructs don't have rights, people do.

The state legislature has to approve the border change. They are not going to give away two thirds of their land area

[Punished UMN]

Oregon isn't a person, it doesn't live on land. Legal constructs don't have rights, people do.

The state legislature has to approve the border change. They are not going to give away two thirds of their land area

Then why not just take it, after all, that's how Oregon got it.

[San Lumen]

Then sell it and freaking move to Idaho. No one is keeping them there against their will.

Multiple counties should empty just because Oregon wants to keep land?

Yes. If you don’t like it leave. The land can be reforested by people who care about the environment.

[Salus Maior]

Because it's their land and they live on it.

That’s now how it works. I own land. I can’t declare I want to be a part of Hawaii

I mean, the Canton of Jura in Switzerland exists because the people voted to not be part of Canton Bern. Why don't communities have the same power here? Or are the Swiss the true upholder of democracy here? (I mean, that's indisputable that Swiss democracy is more rooted in the people than American democracy is, but that's a subject for another time)

[Punished UMN]

Multiple counties should empty just because Oregon wants to keep land?

Yes. If you don’t like it leave. The land can be reforested by people who care about the environment.

"People matter not land, except if you're the government, then the land matters."

[The Black Forrest]

Nobody is preventing them from selling and moving. Why do they get to decide where the land belongs? Especially when the motivation is mainly I don’t like libs.

The "why don't they move" argument is bad for the reasons I've already said. Also, we're talking about the majorities in multiple counties, do you realize what a migration that would be? Entire counties emptying just because Oregon wants to hold onto some land? The land belongs to the people which hold it, not the state.

And disliking the central government is a fine reason for wanting to cede from it. That's what started this country, after all.

I didn’t say it was a great argument. When you the cons to stop suggesting this; then you have an argument.

If they have arguments; then by all means lay them out. I don’t like libs, drugs, or cap and trade. Not really a valid reason to redefine states.

As to the land; sure it’s the STATE of Oregon. Why do they have no say in this matter?

As to emptying counties. You know this wouldn’t happen. Especially when this fails. Well….you might have a couple.

As to secession? The revolution was one thing. This is a different. Well….at least what I have seen. I am curious to their being abused.

By all means; I am open to see what’s the problem and how they are being abused by the process. Because you don’t like libs. Sorry if that bugs you so much; move.

Where does it stop? We don’t like niggers or faggots; we need to move to this state because it’s OUR land.

[Salus Maior]

Multiple counties should empty just because Oregon wants to keep land?

Yes. If you don’t like it leave. The land can be reforested by people who care about the environment.

That's borderline ethnic cleansing.

[Punished UMN]

How dare the people living in these counties try to secede with the land that Oregon rightfully stole

[The Black Forrest]

Soooooo their rights override everybody elses?

Why does everybody else have a right to their land?

Why do they think the laws don’t apply to them?

You don’t have absolute rights to your land. This is why you can’t simply have hazmat materials stored on your land or you can damn up water ways, etc., etc.

[The Black Forrest]

How dare the people living in these counties try to secede with the land that Oregon rightfully stole

Ok. Their reasons?

[Salus Maior]

The "why don't they move" argument is bad for the reasons I've already said. Also, we're talking about the majorities in multiple counties, do you realize what a migration that would be? Entire counties emptying just because Oregon wants to hold onto some land? The land belongs to the people which hold it, not the state.

And disliking the central government is a fine reason for wanting to cede from it. That's what started this country, after all.

I didn’t say it was a great argument. When you the cons to stop suggesting this; then you have an argument.

If they have arguments; then by all means lay them out. I don’t like libs, drugs, or cap and trade. Not really a valid reason to redefine states.

As to the land; sure it’s the STATE of Oregon. Why do they have no say in this matter?

As to emptying counties. You know this wouldn’t happen. Especially when this fails. Well….you might have a couple.

As to secession? The revolution was one thing. This is a different. Well….at least what I have seen. I am curious to their being abused.

? When have I ever suggested people move as a solution? That's completely against what I believe politically. And no, I don't identify as a Conservative (at least so far as it's identified with Republican politics).

A valid reason according to who? Old timers wasting time on internet boards like yourself? That's not exactly what I'd call a authoritative source.

The state is just a legal construct. Who cares what it thinks? We're talking about reality here; that being the will of the people who live in these counties who have actual lives and have made a real choice.

America barely had any reason to cede from Britain. The Representation issue was pretty bad, but it wasn't worth becoming terrorists over considering that the only ill effect they had from it was paying a pittance of a tax on tea.

[95X]

Former Oregonian here, left a few years ago. I'm not a millionaire nor do I own property there, so it doesn't matter. But the point is one can leave a state for another if they don't like it.

Oregon has been a single-party Democratic stronghold for some time now, and a state where voters pick a political party when they register to vote:
https://sos.oregon.gov/elections/Docume ... -april.pdf
(The above PDF was found on this page: https://sos.oregon.gov/elections/Pages/electionsstatistics.aspx, under "Voter Registrations by Year and Month".)

Out of almost 3 million registered voters, over 1 million are registered Democrat, 742K Republican, and over 967K "non-affiliated" which in liberal counties usually means those voters don't think Democrats are liberal enough and in conservative counties usually means those voters don't think Republicans are conservative enough. There are minor parties and an "Independent Party of Oregon" as well, I don't know how much if any traction they get these days.

I think that if there's going to be a vote on changing state boundaries, it'd only be fair for every voter in the affected states to be able to vote on it, not just those in the area affected by a state boundary change. However, I'm personally inclined to believe that we live in a different day and age than those that existed when any state was created out of territory claimed by another; therefore it makes sense that with the exception of bona fide financial insolvency to declare state boundaries an unchangeable covenant between the American and their government.

[Salus Maior]

How dare the people living in these counties try to secede with the land that Oregon rightfully stole

Ok. Their reasons?

Reasons don't matter. They don't believe the central government represents their interests, so they want to join with another construct they believe will.

[Punished UMN]

How dare the people living in these counties try to secede with the land that Oregon rightfully stole

Ok. Their reasons?

Did Oregon need a reason to take the land in the first place?

[San Lumen]

Ok. Their reasons?

Reasons don't matter. They don't believe the central government represents their interests, so they want to join with another construct they believe will.

Why don’t cities in red states pull a similar stunt?

[Punished UMN]

Reasons don't matter. They don't believe the central government represents their interests, so they want to join with another construct they believe will.

Why don’t cities in red states pull a similar stunt?

I wouldn't mind if they did.

[Salus Maior]

Reasons don't matter. They don't believe the central government represents their interests, so they want to join with another construct they believe will.

Why don’t cities in red states pull a similar stunt?

If they want to, sure.

[Proctopeo]

Do they need to be oppressed in order to want to bail on Oregon? If there's a passing vote in the counties, and we're actually working on democratic principle, why shouldn't the public will be followed?

Also who is it helping in Oregon to keep these counties that don't want to remain in Oregon?

Nobody is preventing them from selling and moving. Why do they get to decide where the land belongs? Especially when the motivation is mainly I don’t like libs.

It's been said countless times by now, but moving ain't that fucking easy. It's been said so many times that you should be acutely aware of that fact,

You also keep acting as if motivation is remotely important.

Yeah, the majority of the state of Oregon, believe it or not, doesn't live in those communities.

Soooooo their rights override everybody elses?

Nobody's rights are trampled upon by someone wanting their own land to be part of a different polity; this would have literally no impact on the lives of someone in Portland.

The "why don't they move" argument is bad for the reasons I've already said. Also, we're talking about the majorities in multiple counties, do you realize what a migration that would be? Entire counties emptying just because Oregon wants to hold onto some land? The land belongs to the people which hold it, not the state.

And disliking the central government is a fine reason for wanting to cede from it. That's what started this country, after all.

I didn’t say it was a great argument. When you the cons to stop suggesting this; then you have an argument.

You're using a shit argument because... you're assuming people here are associated with other people that you think have used this argument for other circumstances??? I can't tell if this is ridiculous, or just outright bad faith.

Because it's their land and they live on it.

isn't it oregon's land

It's Oregon. If anyone owns the land besides the deed holder, it's the federal government.

[The Black Forrest]

I didn’t say it was a great argument. When you the cons to stop suggesting this; then you have an argument.

If they have arguments; then by all means lay them out. I don’t like libs, drugs, or cap and trade. Not really a valid reason to redefine states.

As to the land; sure it’s the STATE of Oregon. Why do they have no say in this matter?

As to emptying counties. You know this wouldn’t happen. Especially when this fails. Well….you might have a couple.

As to secession? The revolution was one thing. This is a different. Well….at least what I have seen. I am curious to their being abused.

? When have I ever suggested people move as a solution? That's completely against what I believe politically. And no, I don't identify as a Conservative (at least so far as it's identified with Republican politics).

That was badly written. It was supposed to be “when you get the cons”

A valid reason according to who? Old timers wasting time on internet boards like yourself? That's not exactly what I'd call a authoritative source.

Hey if you don’t have an argument then you attack the person.

The state is just a legal construct. Who cares what it thinks? We're talking about reality here; that being the will of the people who live in these counties who have actual lives and have made a real choice.

The reality is these counties existed before these people purchased the land. There are NO absolute rights to land.

It’s not like these people have only one chance to own land.

America barely had any reason to cede from Britain. The Representation issue was pretty bad, but it wasn't worth becoming terrorists over considering that the only ill effect they had from it was paying a pittance of a tax on tea.

It was more then that.

If they had genuine grievances. I would love to see them.

[Peatiktist]

Yes. If you don’t like it leave. The land can be reforested by people who care about the environment.

That's borderline ethnic cleansing.

Alright no.

Is it stupid? Yes.
But its not ethnic cleansing unless they are forced to leave.

[Proctopeo]

That's borderline ethnic cleansing.

Alright no.

Is it stupid? Yes.
But its not ethnic cleansing unless they are forced to leave.

I wouldn't call it "ethnic cleansing", but there's a similar vibe. It's denying people actual representation unless they move elsewhere.

[Proctopeo]

That was badly written. It was supposed to be “when you get the cons”

That makes your continued use of that argument somehow even more nonsensical. How about I get "the cons" to stop hypothetically using this argument when you stop

[The Black Forrest]

Nobody is preventing them from selling and moving. Why do they get to decide where the land belongs? Especially when the motivation is mainly I don’t like libs.

It's been said countless times by now, but moving ain't that fucking easy. It's been said so many times that you should be acutely aware of that fact,

You also keep acting as if motivation is remotely important.

Its fascinating when one side says “if you don’t like it, move” and when they are told the same. “This isn’t right”

Oh and nobody ever suggested moving wasn’t easy….well you did.

Soooooo their rights override everybody elses?

Nobody's rights are trampled upon by someone wanting their own land to be part of a different polity; this would have literally no impact on the lives of someone in Portland.

Ok. How are their rights being trampled on by Portland?

I didn’t say it was a great argument. When you the cons to stop suggesting this; then you have an argument.

You're using a shit argument because... you're assuming people here are associated with other people that you think have used this argument for other circumstances??? I can't tell if this is ridiculous, or just outright bad faith.

Then by all means list out their fucking greviances.

isn't it oregon's land

It's Oregon. If anyone owns the land besides the deed holder, it's the federal government.