Five Oregon Counties vote to Join Idaho

[Thermodolia]

I mean they where talking about a few city sized areas within the counties. And yes it could definitely work because it’s all apart of the US and they could get the feds to do most of the governing anyway

It’s not as simple as you make it out to be.

It actually is. It’s all within the US and state borders shouldn’t be static anyway because they should really all be extensions of the federal or really central government.

If someone values democracy and self determination yes they should be for that.

If they aren’t well at least they should be honest and say that they aren’t for that. I personally am not for a federal system and instead prefer a unitary state run by a central government which is run by a constitutional military dictatorship.

Why? Lincoln should have simply let the southern states go and declared those in chains aren’t my problem and let Maryland succeed too thereby sandwiching the capital in between two successions states?

The capital probably would have been moved. But ya if you really respected the democratic rule and the idea of self determination than sure that’s what should have happened.

But as you seem to not have read the second paragraph which is very important you seem to think that I wanted the south to leave. Which couldn’t be farther from the truth given I think that Lincoln and Co should have demolished the federal system right then and there.

[Northern Socialist Council Republics]

Can the same be said for Democrats and Republicans? :p

*thinks*

Perhaps the apt example to use here isn't Baarle-Nassau, but the social, economic, political, and administrative mess that is the Indian-Bangladeshi border.

[San Lumen]

It’s not as simple as you make it out to be.

It actually is. It’s all within the US and state borders shouldn’t be static anyway because they should really all be extensions of the federal or really central government.

Why? Lincoln should have simply let the southern states go and declared those in chains aren’t my problem and let Maryland succeed too thereby sandwiching the capital in between two successions states?

The capital probably would have been moved. But ya if you really respected the democratic rule and the idea of self determination than sure that’s what should have happened.

But as you seem to not have read the second paragraph which is very important you seem to think that I wanted the south to leave. Which couldn’t be farther from the truth given I think that Lincoln and Co should have demolished the federal system right then and there.

And millions remain in chains for decades with zero rights.

What should they have replaced it with?

[Senkaku]

But ya if you really respected the democratic rule and the idea of self determination than sure that’s what should have happened.

…democratic rule and self determination for who? I mean, yeah, if you’re concerned with oligarchs’ democratic rights more than poor farmers’ or slaves’, sure, the Confederacy was a case of democratic self determination, but… come on now.

[San Lumen]

But ya if you really respected the democratic rule and the idea of self determination than sure that’s what should have happened.

…democratic rule and self determination for who? I mean, yeah, if you’re concerned with oligarchs’ democratic rights more than poor farmers’ or slaves’, sure, the Confederacy was a case of democratic self determination, but… come on now.

You also believe Lincoln should have let them go and given up on abolishing slavery? Millions remain in chains for decades?

[Ors Might]

If one values democracy on principle, then yeah. The states involved democratically voted to secede.

Millions of black people weren't allowed to vote. Also some poor whites. How was that democracy?

It was a system of government by which representatives were elected by eligible citizens. By definition, a democracy. That what the criteria they used for an eligible citizen was disgusting is irrelevant to whether or not it was a democracy.

[Senkaku]

…democratic rule and self determination for who? I mean, yeah, if you’re concerned with oligarchs’ democratic rights more than poor farmers’ or slaves’, sure, the Confederacy was a case of democratic self determination, but… come on now.

You also believe Lincoln should have let them go and given up on abolishing slavery? Millions remain in chains for decades?

What the fuck did I just say? I mean, re-read what I said and tell me how the hell you got there. Are you having a stroke?

[Thermodolia]

Can the same be said for Democrats and Republicans?

*thinks*

Perhaps the apt example to use here isn't Baarle-Nassau, but the social, economic, political, and administrative mess that is the Indian-Bangladeshi border.

Actually they solved that mostly back in 2015

[The Blaatschapen]

Can the same be said for Democrats and Republicans?

*thinks*

Perhaps the apt example to use here isn't Baarle-Nassau, but the social, economic, political, and administrative mess that is the Indian-Bangladeshi border.

That would invalidate the preconditions of free movement and trade that were laid out.

[Thermodolia]

But ya if you really respected the democratic rule and the idea of self determination than sure that’s what should have happened.

…democratic rule and self determination for who? I mean, yeah, if you’re concerned with oligarchs’ democratic rights more than poor farmers’ or slaves’, sure, the Confederacy was a case of democratic self determination, but… come on now.

Democratic rule and self determination is foe those who are eligible voters. At the time poor whites and slaves where not eligible voters.

But either way I don’t agree with it because I think that democracy, especially democracy that’s unguided, is terrible for a government and leads to the situation we had last year with idiots in charge of the government.

[Senkaku]

especially democracy that’s unguided

NASAKOM DETECTED ON INDONESIAN SOIL, NEW ORDER ENGAGED!

[Christian Confederation]

Aren't more Counties set to vote on joining Idaho in November?

[San Lumen]

Aren't more Counties set to vote on joining Idaho in November?

Not that im aware of. Its still noting more than stunt.

[South Americanastan]

Aren't more Counties set to vote on joining Idaho in November?

Not that im aware of. Its still noting more than stunt.

Multiple official referendums is a little more than a stunt.

[San Lumen]

Not that im aware of. Its still noting more than stunt.

Multiple official referendums is a little more than a stunt.

Its a stunt because the state legislature will never give them the light of day via a hearing.

[South Americanastan]

Multiple official referendums is a little more than a stunt.

Its a stunt because the state legislature will never give them the light of day via a hearing.

Just because it probably won't work and/or didn't work doesn't make it a "stunt". By your definition the American Civil War was a "stunt" and so is the North Korean Nuclear program, and also the Catalonian independence movement. These counties are 100% serious about leaving, and held legitimate referendums. That is not a "stunt"

[San Lumen]

Its a stunt because the state legislature will never give them the light of day via a hearing.

Just because it probably won't work and/or didn't work doesn't make it a "stunt". By your definition the American Civil War was a "stunt" and so is the North Korean Nuclear program, and also the Catalonian independence movement. These counties are 100% serious about leaving, and held legitimate referendums. That is not a "stunt"

The fact that it will go nowhere means its nothing more than a protest vote and stunt. The Civil War wasn't a stunt. it was a constitutional crisis and by the logic of some here Lincoln should have just let them go and said those who remain in chains in the South isn't my problem.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Just because it probably won't work and/or didn't work doesn't make it a "stunt". By your definition the American Civil War was a "stunt" and so is the North Korean Nuclear program, and also the Catalonian independence movement. These counties are 100% serious about leaving, and held legitimate referendums. That is not a "stunt"

The fact that it will go nowhere means its nothing more than a protest vote and stunt. The Civil War wasn't a stunt. it was a constitutional crisis and by the logic of some here Lincoln should have just let them go and said those who remain in chains in the South isn't my problem.

Bad news for you, Lincoln fought the Civil War because the confederates attacked a military base, not to free slaves. Lincoln was a racist himself, and you ought to know it's true.

[San Lumen]

The fact that it will go nowhere means its nothing more than a protest vote and stunt. The Civil War wasn't a stunt. it was a constitutional crisis and by the logic of some here Lincoln should have just let them go and said those who remain in chains in the South isn't my problem.

Bad news for you, Lincoln fought the Civil War because the confederates attacked a military base, not to free slaves. Lincoln was a racist himself, and you ought to know it's true.

Lincoln was against slavery but did not believe in full equality. This was not uncommon thinking at the time.

[Ors Might]

Multiple official referendums is a little more than a stunt.

Its a stunt because the state legislature will never give them the light of day via a hearing.

Y’know, if thousands of the people you’re meant to represent are so dissatisfied with the job you’re doing that multiple counties hold a referendum and vote to leave your state, that might be something you might want to fucking address?

[Thermodolia]

Aren't more Counties set to vote on joining Idaho in November?

Not that im aware of. Its still noting more than stunt.

If it’s nothing more than a stunt then why do you care so much?

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Bad news for you, Lincoln fought the Civil War because the confederates attacked a military base, not to free slaves. Lincoln was a racist himself, and you ought to know it's true.

Lincoln was against slavery but did not believe in full equality. This was not uncommon thinking at the time.

Lincoln once stated he'd rather preserve the union and keep slavery than abolish the union and end slavery. The Civil War only became about slavery when we needed to dissuade Europe from helping the CSA.

[San Lumen]

Its a stunt because the state legislature will never give them the light of day via a hearing.

Y’know, if thousands of the people you’re meant to represent are so dissatisfied with the job you’re doing that multiple counties hold a referendum and vote to leave your state, that might be something you might want to fucking address?

How should it be addressed? These people;s grievance is we don't like our population doesn't allow for more representation and the people who want for statewide office have lost election after election.

[Salus Maior]

Actually it works quite fine in places where there’s freedom of trade and travel already established like inside the US borders and in the EU. I mean just look at Baarle-Hertog which is a bunch of Belgian enclaves and exclaves in the Netherlands

Those enclaves and exclaves are significantly smaller than a county though. More like a few houses here and there. Less than 3000 people in the whole municipality of baarle hertog, some of which is not an enclave/exclave at all.

Does it scale?

And Dutch and Belgian local governments cooperate on issues that arise. Can the same be said for Democrats and Republicans?

As it is, some states in the US have exclaves and enclaves.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Y’know, if thousands of the people you’re meant to represent are so dissatisfied with the job you’re doing that multiple counties hold a referendum and vote to leave your state, that might be something you might want to fucking address?

How should it be addressed? These people;s grievance is we don't like our population doesn't allow for more representation and the people who want for statewide office have lost election after election.

Or maybe they have actual legitimate grievances like the loss of jobs in rural areas and dilapidated infrastructure.