256 Gazans killed by unlawful Israeli bombardment

[Kowani]

this isn't even true
my first post was this one...responding to Herzpunkt talking about how Hamas' charter was a reason to reject negotiations
you responded to that post here
seriously, mate
this is not the hill you want to die on

but that's not the post that kicked off this side tangent,
this is

...that's a response to the post i linked, pointing out that the widespread acceptance of genocidal ideology among israelis made focusing on the language of the charter a bad point
like
quote chains, my guy

[Dowaesk]

Hamas violently overthrew the PNA and de facto created a new government which has since not held elections. The same can not be said of Israel.

Hamas was not elected?

The votes are right here

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Pa ... e_election

Thats not how it works

[Tarsonis]

That's an unfair assessment of Israel. They're a parliamentary system which means which ever party wins a plurality, no matter how small of one, gets the PM seat and controlling stake. The Likud party might win regularly, but they doing so with only about a quarter of the vote. To put that on the entirely of the population is just incorrect.

If the population was shown to be open to peace I would agree. But I linked some polling earlier showing the idea of a two state solution is VERY unpopular to everyone except Israeli Arabs.

Indeed. But why is it in unpopular? That has to be taken into account. You're casting it as they reject along imperialist lines, it seems they reject it more for security reasons:

"Israeli opposition to the creation of a Palestinian-Arab state makes eminent sense. Such a state would be an Iranian-Hamas-Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-Fatah terrorist state, dedicated to Israel’s destruction. As Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu warned years ago, even if such a state agreed to “demilitarization,” it would not remain demilitarized for long. Such a state would have the power to make alliances with other hostile states and the ability to import sophisticated weaponry for attacking and exterminating Jews. Palestinian-Arab rocket attacks on Tel Aviv, Jerusalem, Ben-Gurion International Airport and Kfar Sava would become a regular occurrence. "


They don't believe Hamas is on the level, and why should they when they've been given every reason not to?

[Tarsonis]

but that's not the post that kicked off this side tangent,
this is

...that's a response to the post i linked, pointing out that the widespread acceptance of genocidal ideology among israelis made focusing on the language of the charter a bad point
like
quote chains, my guy

You didn't quote chain, you picked two of my quotes and called me intellectually dishonest. You didn't link it back to Herzpunkt's argument.

[Washington Resistance Army]

If the population was shown to be open to peace I would agree. But I linked some polling earlier showing the idea of a two state solution is VERY unpopular to everyone except Israeli Arabs.

Indeed. But why is it in unpopular? That has to be taken into account. You're casting it as they reject along imperialist lines, it seems they reject it more for security reasons:

"Israeli opposition to the creation of a Palestinian-Arab state makes eminent sense. Such a state would be an Iranian-Hamas-Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-Fatah terrorist state, dedicated to Israel’s destruction. As Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu warned years ago, even if such a state agreed to “demilitarization,” it would not remain demilitarized for long. Such a state would have the power to make alliances with other hostile states and the ability to import sophisticated weaponry for attacking and exterminating Jews. Palestinian-Arab rocket attacks on Tel Aviv, Jerusalem, Ben-Gurion International Airport and Kfar Sava would become a regular occurrence. "


They don't believe Hamas is on the level, and why should they when they've been given every reason not to?

There are no real security reasons, there haven't been in many decades. Israel has hundreds of nuclear weapons, they could destroy literally every other nation in the Middle East without issue. An enlarged Palestine could militarize to their wildest dreams and they'd never be anything more than an inconvenience to Israel at absolute best, Iron Dome and the bomb ensure that.

[Kowani]

...that's a response to the post i linked, pointing out that the widespread acceptance of genocidal ideology among israelis made focusing on the language of the charter a bad point
like
quote chains, my guy

You didn't quote chain, you picked two of my quotes and called me intellectually dishonest. You didn't link it back to Herzpunkt's argument.

coño, you're salty
you jumped in responding to me responding to Hertz' argument
i used your other post to show how your contention wasn't accurate
i didn't realize i needed a neon fucking sign saying "this is in response to this post" when you were participating in all of them
i'm not calling you intellectually dishonest, i'm calling you stubborn
these are not the same thing

[Tarsonis]

Indeed. But why is it in unpopular? That has to be taken into account. You're casting it as they reject along imperialist lines, it seems they reject it more for security reasons:

"Israeli opposition to the creation of a Palestinian-Arab state makes eminent sense. Such a state would be an Iranian-Hamas-Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-Fatah terrorist state, dedicated to Israel’s destruction. As Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu warned years ago, even if such a state agreed to “demilitarization,” it would not remain demilitarized for long. Such a state would have the power to make alliances with other hostile states and the ability to import sophisticated weaponry for attacking and exterminating Jews. Palestinian-Arab rocket attacks on Tel Aviv, Jerusalem, Ben-Gurion International Airport and Kfar Sava would become a regular occurrence. "


They don't believe Hamas is on the level, and why should they when they've been given every reason not to?

There are no real security reasons, there haven't been in many decades. Israel has hundreds of nuclear weapons, they could destroy literally every other nation in the Middle East without issue. An enlarged Palestine could militarize to their wildest dreams and they'd never be anything more than an inconvenience to Israel at absolute best, Iron Dome and the bomb ensure that.

Israel can't do that without destroying itself in the process. It's not a deterrent of superior weaponry so much as it is the deterrent of a guy with his hand on a Deadman switch "I go, we all go." Sure the cold War may have never escalated to hot war, but the Soviets and US weren't defined by an intent to destroy eachother. Hamas has no such trepidation about a massive conflict like that.

Further, the iron Dome is nifty, but not perfect. Even now it doesn't get all of Gazas rockets. I can't imagine it would be very much of a deterrent if Palestine was able go get far better weaponry.


As much as I want a two state solution, I can't blame Israelis for not being in favor of a two state solution in which Palestine is controlled by Hamas and Fatah

[Tarsonis]

You didn't quote chain, you picked two of my quotes and called me intellectually dishonest. You didn't link it back to Herzpunkt's argument.

coño, you're salty
you jumped in responding to me responding to Hertz' argument
i used your other post to show how your contention wasn't accurate
i didn't realize i needed a neon fucking sign saying "this is in response to this post" when you were participating in all of them

So you used my post to prove my comment about his convention incorrect? My posts which had a very different point than his? Ffs.

i'm not calling you intellectually dishonest, i'm calling you stubborn
these are not the same thing

That's an understatement, but my point is it was an unwarranted potshot based on your misunderstanding of the positions being discussed, and you've twisted around in knots to avoid admitting you were wrong. Ironic, given what you charged me with.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

Time to watch Waltz with Bashir again.

[Wallenburg]

they have a proportional parliament so yes the government is exactly like the voting population

thats the entire point of that type of system

Okay then by this logic israeli citizens are valid military targets

That's not how it works and you know it. Being a democracy doesn't make all your citizens military combatants. If you could stop lying as a matter of course then that would be great.

[Stalliongrad and Far-Eastern Territories]

Meanwhile: https://apnews.com/article/israel-west-bank-gaza-middle-east-israel-palestinian-conflict-7974cc0c03897b8b21e5fc2f8c7d8a79

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) — An Israeli airstrike targeted and destroyed a high-rise building in Gaza City that housed offices of The Associated Press and other media outlets hours after another Israeli air raid on a densely populated refugee camp killed at least 10 Palestinians from an extended family, mostly children, on Saturday.

The strike on the high-rise came nearly an hour after the military ordered people to evacuate the 12-story building, which also housed Al-Jazeera, other offices and residential apartments. The strike brought down the entire structure, which collapsed in a gigantic cloud of dust. There was no immediate explanation for why it was attacked.

The strike on the building housing media offices came in the afternoon, after the owner received a call from the Israeli military warning that the building would be hit. AP’s staff and others in the building evacuated immediately, and were reported safe.

Al-Jazeera, the news network funded by Qatar’s government, broadcast the airstrikes live as the building collapsed.

“This channel will not be silenced. Al-Jazeera will not be silenced,” an on-air anchorwoman from Al-Jazeera English said, her voice thick with emotion. “We can guarantee you that right now.”

The bombardment earlier Saturday struck a three-story house in Gaza City’s Shati refugee camp, killing eight children and two women from an extended family.

Mohammed Hadidi told reporters his wife and five children had gone to celebrate the Eid al-Fitr holiday with relatives. She and three of the children, aged 6 to 14, were killed, while an 11-year-old is missing. Only his 5-month-old son Omar is known to have survived.

Children’s toys and a Monopoly board game could be seen among the rubble, as well as plates of uneaten food from the holiday gathering.

“There was no warning,” said Jamal Al-Naji, a neighbor living in the same building. “You filmed people eating and then you bombed them?” he said, addressing Israel. “Why are you confronting us? Go and confront the strong people!”

The Israeli military did not immediately respond to a request for comment. Hamas said it fired a salvo of rockets at southern Israel in response to the airstrike.

A furious Israeli barrage early Friday killed a family of six in their house and sent thousands fleeing to U.N.-run shelters. The military said the operation involved 160 warplanes dropping some 80 tons of explosives over the course of 40 minutes and succeeded in destroying a vast tunnel network used by Hamas.

[SD_Film Artists]

Time to watch Waltz with Bashir again.

It is a great movie.

[Alien Overlord]

Israel will only be marching into it's own backyard. I don't see how this is a bad thing considering how many terrorists use the Gaza strip to launch attacks on Israel. I'm surprised it's taken them this long to consider sending troops in with everything that is happening. It's the natural reaction of any nation to defend itself from unprovoked aggression like that which is displayed by the people of the Gaza Strip and West bank. Holding Israel back is only asking for more violence in the long run.

[Stalliongrad and Far-Eastern Territories]

Israel will only be marching into it's own backyard. I don't see how this is a bad thing considering how many terrorists use the Gaza strip to launch attacks on Israel. I'm surprised it's taken them this long to consider sending troops in with everything that is happening. It's the natural reaction of any nation to defend itself from unprovoked aggression like that which is displayed by the people of the Gaza Strip and West bank. Holding Israel back is only asking for more violence in the long run.

Are you utterly around the twist? 'Marching into its own backyard' is an expression coined to describe the Remilitarisation of the Rhineland by Hitler in 1936. Deeply suspect use of language there.

As for 'Unprovoked' aggression, just how uninformed are you about the nature of this conflict?

[Alien Overlord]

Israel will only be marching into it's own backyard. I don't see how this is a bad thing considering how many terrorists use the Gaza strip to launch attacks on Israel. I'm surprised it's taken them this long to consider sending troops in with everything that is happening. It's the natural reaction of any nation to defend itself from unprovoked aggression like that which is displayed by the people of the Gaza Strip and West bank. Holding Israel back is only asking for more violence in the long run.

Are you utterly around the twist? 'Marching into its own backyard' is an expression coined to describe the Remilitarisation of the Rhineland by Hitler in 1936. Deeply suspect use of language there.

As for 'Unprovoked' aggression, just how uninformed are you about the nature of this conflict?

My first sentence was quite clearly a joke friend, hence why it was italicized. The rest of my argument stands. There was no provocation for the rocket attacks launched by Palestine and Islamic terrorist organizations such as Hamas on May 10th and onwards. The Israeli response has been exactly that-a response to Palestinian aggression.

[Insaanistan]

Israel needs to stop treating every building in Gaza like a secret Hamas base.

The government is controlled by Hamas and none of this would have happened if Hamas would stop firing rockets from civilian areas. Israel should have never left the Gaza Strip because Hamas completely ruined everything Israel had built.

What exactly did they build besides illegal settlements?

[Insaanistan]

Fun fact: according to Israel in the Oslo Accords, the “border” with Gaza is in fact not a border.
Gaza is very much still occupied.

[Insaanistan]

10 Palestinians killed in West Bank confrontations with Israeli troops
Nakba Day demonstrations begin, are met with force by Israeli forces

[Punished UMN]

So how are the Israeli defenders justifying the bombing of the Associated Press?

[Herzpunkt]

Okay then by this logic israeli citizens are valid military targets

That's not how it works and you know it. Being a democracy doesn't make all your citizens military combatants. If you could stop lying as a matter of course then that would be great.

Im not the one saying that the government is “identical” to the people and vice versa so your dumb comment of me “lying” holds no weight

[Punished UMN]

That's not how it works and you know it. Being a democracy doesn't make all your citizens military combatants. If you could stop lying as a matter of course then that would be great.

Im not the one saying that the government is “identical” to the people and vice versa so your dumb comment of me “lying” holds no weight

You've been saying for the entire thread that the Palestinians should be bombed because they "brought it on themselves" by voting for Hamas, right?

[Immortan Khan]

Why is it that Palestinians should accept their fate because they voted in Hamas but this isn't said of Israelis who have consistently voted in government after government after government that has sanctioned ethnic cleansing among other war crimes? People are expecting Palestinians to suffer and put up with indignities and horror that they themselves would never tolerate and that the Palestinians do show restraint for years on end shows that they arguably have better moral backbone than most Westerners. At this point just be open that you don't care about Palestinians because they aren't "Western" and are on average a few shades darker than you.

[Postauthoritarian America]

So how are the Israeli defenders justifying the bombing of the Associated Press?

Message just sent to the White House, Senators and Representative. Feel free to adapt and use yourselves. This campaign of wanton destruction and terror must end now.

Dear ____, as you know, this morning the Israeli Defense Forces deliberately destroyed a building in the Gaza Strip housing offices and employees of the Associated Press and al-Jazeera news services. No interpretation of "self-defense" can possibly excuse this or many other Israeli acts. It is past time for the enablers of this wanton destruction, and all public officials, to speak and act strongly, publicly and privately, to end Israel's campaign of terror.

I call on you to publicly condemn this brazen attack on free journalism and to call for an immediate end to Israeli assaults on Palestinians. Thank you for your consideration; best of luck for the future.

[South Americanastan]

Why is it that Palestinians should accept their fate because they voted in Hamas but this isn't said of Israelis who have consistently voted in government after government after government that has sanctioned ethnic cleansing among other war crimes? People are expecting Palestinians to suffer and put up with indignities and horror that they themselves would never tolerate and that the Palestinians do show restraint for years on end shows that they arguably have better moral backbone than most Westerners. At this point just be open that you don't care about Palestinians because they aren't "Western" and are on average a few shades darker than you.

On two separate occasions, the PLO has been offered complete independence. On both occasions, they declined. Not to mention the fact the Arabs throughout the early twentieth century were hellbent on destroying the Jews and Israel. Palestine is the only one of those Arab nations that refused to stop trying to destroy Israel.

[Ifreann]

So how are the Israeli defenders justifying the bombing of the Associated Press?

Hamassociated Press.