Musk trolling like a boss: NO MOAR BTC!

[Esternial]

Maybe people should stop getting their crypto advice from a meme'ing billionaire and the market wouldn't be so sensitive to his whims.

People likely to have the thought "Hmm, maybe I shouldn't listen to this rich weirdo" are already people who wouldn't invest in cryptocurrencies.

I want to agree with you but I did put in a 100 euros a while back.

[Ifreann]

People likely to have the thought "Hmm, maybe I shouldn't listen to this rich weirdo" are already people who wouldn't invest in cryptocurrencies.

I want to agree with you but I did put in a 100 euros a while back.

For your own safety, stay away from Musk's Twitter account.

[Esternial]

I want to agree with you but I did put in a 100 euros a while back.

For your own safety, stay away from Musk's Twitter account.

Must...buy...dogecoin.

I did buy Ethereum, which I believe he hasn't targeted yet.

[Esternial]

For your own safety, stay away from Musk's Twitter account.

The first time I heard Musk's name it prejudiced me against him. But for a really dumb reason: I have an aversion to the smell of musk (the fake ester AND real musk) and putting it in my mouth makes me feel sick. On one notable occasion, I threw up.

He seems to have a crazy mixture of qualities and faults. High functioning saint/sinner egotistical weirdo. I think a lot of people are primed to hate him because he's so rich and has the freedom to do whatever he wants. But I respect that he didn't just buy an island and live there with a hundred 'servants'.

He achieves true neutral by balancing both chaotic evil and lawful good.

[Ifreann]

For your own safety, stay away from Musk's Twitter account.

The first time I heard Musk's name it prejudiced me against him. But for a really dumb reason: I have an aversion to the smell of musk (the fake ester AND real musk) and putting it in my mouth makes me feel sick. On one notable occasion, I threw up.

He seems to have a crazy mixture of qualities and faults. High functioning saint/sinner egotistical weirdo. I think a lot of people are primed to hate him because he's so rich and has the freedom to do whatever he wants. But I respect that he didn't just buy an island and live there with a hundred 'servants'.

We'd probably be better off if he did just fuck off to some island.

[Forsher]

The idea that Musk has just now discovered that cryptocurrencies are shit for the environment and is correspondingly ditching just one specific cryptocurrency, and not saying anything about the other cryptocurrency he's been promoting lately, is hard to believe.

He's promoting two cryptocurrencies?

Kinda hard for Tesla to stop accepting a cryptocurrency it is already not accepting.

I don't like Elon Musk much at all, but there's nothing inherently wrong or even odd here. It took literally years for the "cryptocurrency discourse" to start incorporating the idea "actually, it's bad for the environment".

So we took literally years to realize that huge downside.

That does not get the people who launched it off the hook. Designing and marketing an unhealthy product and/or a dangerous product is taking on the moral blame for whatever happens after that ... unless the consequence was logically unforeseeable.

They didn't do their due diligence, so they should be fucking sued.

Please do not include any mathematics in your reply.

Yes, but what does that have to do with what I said? Musk is basically a normal dude when it comes to cryptocurrency. And insofar as he isn't... Dogecoin Tweets aside... he actually has done something meaningful to reflect the effects of cryptocurrency on the environment.

Also, given that Tesla is in the electric car market, you'd think Musk would be primed to think "electricity... that's on brand!".

Tesla is in the electric car market. *I* would think Musk would be primed to think "more demand for electricity means higher prices for electricity, that's not good for Tesla" actually.

Well, for the company's plants, but I'm not sure Tesla's overly concerned with manufacturing... it's run like a tech unicorn: everything is branding.

Please do not include any mathematics in your reply.

Seriously, who are you?

[Forsher]

The first time I heard Musk's name it prejudiced me against him. But for a really dumb reason: I have an aversion to the smell of musk (the fake ester AND real musk) and putting it in my mouth makes me feel sick. On one notable occasion, I threw up.

He seems to have a crazy mixture of qualities and faults. High functioning saint/sinner egotistical weirdo. I think a lot of people are primed to hate him because he's so rich and has the freedom to do whatever he wants. But I respect that he didn't just buy an island and live there with a hundred 'servants'.

We'd probably be better off if he did just fuck off to some island.

The problem with Elon Musk is he thinks he's Doctor Doom.

Though if we're talking islands, that's more Syndrome or a Bond villain.

[Forsher]

If we didn't have Musk to look down on, it would be some other rich fuck. Remember when it used to be Gates? What has changed since then?

I do not.

In fact, Bill Gates feels less popular than ever.

What's changed in Microsoft, which now seems like the "good old boy" whom everyone "wants back" in comparison to Google, Amazon, Facebook and Apple rather than "evil old Microsoft".

And I don't think you're right in general; we don't look down on these individuals, we disagree with or dislike them.

Elon Musk is a weird case of a billionaire who acts like a newspaper columnist, it's unusual. Trump's another example, in some respects, but in many ways the comparison is absurd... Musk is so much wealthier than Trump, has done so much better in business than Trump, putting them in the same category is a bit like equating my great-aunt with Trump just because they're both in property. Yes, Trump's (vastly) closer to Musk than my great-aunt is to Trump, but it's ludicrous to say that Trump is the same kind of billionaire as Gates, Musk or Jeff Bezos.

[Warriors of Truth]

all money is ficcional, we need to go back to the gold standard

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

I bet Elon Musk has a cape in his wardrobe.

[Ethel mermania]

If we didn't have Musk to look down on, it would be some other rich fuck. Remember when it used to be Gates? What has changed since then?

I do not.

In fact, Bill Gates feels less popular than ever.

What's changed in Microsoft, which now seems like the "good old boy" whom everyone "wants back" in comparison to Google, Amazon, Facebook and Apple rather than "evil old Microsoft".

And I don't think you're right in general; we don't look down on these individuals, we disagree with or dislike them.

Elon Musk is a weird case of a billionaire who acts like a newspaper columnist, it's unusual. Trump's another example, in some respects, but in many ways the comparison is absurd... Musk is so much wealthier than Trump, has done so much better in business than Trump, putting them in the same category is a bit like equating my great-aunt with Trump just because they're both in property. Yes, Trump's (vastly) closer to Musk than my great-aunt is to Trump, but it's ludicrous to say that Trump is the same kind of billionaire as Gates, Musk or Jeff Bezos.

Elon Musk is the modern version of Howard Hughes

[Ifreann]

The idea that Musk has just now discovered that cryptocurrencies are shit for the environment and is correspondingly ditching just one specific cryptocurrency, and not saying anything about the other cryptocurrency he's been promoting lately, is hard to believe.

He's promoting two cryptocurrencies?

Kinda hard for Tesla to stop accepting a cryptocurrency it is already not accepting.

Musk's top meme advisors have him promoting Dogecoin now.

---

We'd probably be better off if he did just fuck off to some island.

The problem with Elon Musk is he thinks he's Doctor Doom.

Though if we're talking islands, that's more Syndrome or a Bond villain.

One imagines that he would say Iron Man, but yes, he does think that he is a genius in the same sense that comic book characters like Dr. Doom are geniuses. In the real world, a genius is a person who is essentially obsessed with one very narrow field of study, sometimes to the exclusion of attaining even an average understanding of other fields. But in comic books, a genius is an expert in every field of science available in the setting. "Genius" is their superpower, the explanation for the impossible things they do, just like super strength or super speed is for other characters. Mechanical engineer Tony Stark and particle physicist Bruce Banner collaborate with computer scientist Scott Lang to make a time machine. That's how Musk's fans think of him, and how he thinks of himself, as a man with a magical brain who can will impossible technology into existence.

---

We'd probably be better off if he did just fuck off to some island.

The same way we're better off with Trump banned from Twitter.

No, in that Musk is accelerating the ruination of the world and is quite willing to leave bodies in his wake as he secures himself an escape route from Earth. Musk tried to have one of his employees killed for going to the press about the conditions in one of his factories. His self-driving-but-not-really cars are dangerous, his truck is dangerous, his tunnels are dangerous, his rocket launches are dangerous, his flooding of orbital space with satellites is dangerous.

If we didn't have Musk to look down on, it would be some other rich fuck. Remember when it used to be Gates? What has changed since then?

Gates spent years laundering his public image with "philanthropy". The veneer is peeling on that, though.

[Forsher]

all money is ficcional, we need to go back to the gold standard

See, this is what I mean. This is the dominant and orthodox framing of cryptocurrency that has only recently become challenged with the environmental critique.

Look, NSG isn't the best place to look but take this:

• back in 2018 Minoa is going on about electricity but it seems to be an objection to fiat currency
• in the same thread Neu Leonstein (damn, I could've sworn they returned recently) mentions energy inefficiency
• but back in 2017 Minoa did link an article about the colossal carbon footprint of cryptocurrency, in a thread that was mostly bringing up electricity in terms of how mining wasn't worth it

And that's it. Those are all the environmentalist critiques of cryptocurrency I could find on NSG before this thread. There's probably others buried in megathreads but there you are.

[Forsher]

Gates spent years laundering his public image with "philanthropy". The veneer is peeling on that, though.

Now I doubt you're talking about insane conspiracy theories so what are you referencing? The last negative thing I read about Gates (other than articles about insane conspiracy theories) was a critique of philanthropy. And that was years ago.

[Ifreann]

Gates spent years laundering his public image with "philanthropy". The veneer is peeling on that, though.

Now I doubt you're talking about insane conspiracy theories so what are you referencing? The last negative thing I read about Gates (other than articles about insane conspiracy theories) was a critique of philanthropy. And that was years ago.

Obviously I am referencing the way that Bill Gates has very publicly made pledges to give away all his money and solve any number of the world's problems, and I am very subtly suggesting by the use of scare quotes that the ostensible charitable sentiment is not really sincere.

[Major-Tom]

Never understood the fascination with cryptocurrency that inherently has far less value than people ascribe to it. It's like astrology for white guys. *shrugs*

[Forsher]

Now I doubt you're talking about insane conspiracy theories so what are you referencing? The last negative thing I read about Gates (other than articles about insane conspiracy theories) was a critique of philanthropy. And that was years ago.

Obviously I am referencing the way that Bill Gates has very publicly made pledges to give away all his money and solve any number of the world's problems, and I am very subtly suggesting by the use of scare quotes that the ostensible charitable sentiment is not really sincere.

No, I mean, why did you say "the veneer is peeling on that, though"?

[Ethel mermania]

Never understood the fascination with cryptocurrency that inherently has far less value than people ascribe to it. It's like astrology for white guys. *shrugs*

Its advantage is that governments can't track it, and it avoids using dollars as a medium of exchange

[Risottia]

all money is ficcional, we need to go back to the gold standard

the value of gold is entirely fictional

[Major-Tom]

Never understood the fascination with cryptocurrency that inherently has far less value than people ascribe to it. It's like astrology for white guys. *shrugs*

Its advantage is that governments can't track it, and it avoids using dollars as a medium of exchange

I guess, but without anything tangible to back it, it just seems kind of...worthless? Superficial and artificially propped up, at the very least. Then again, cryptocurrency isn't my strong suit, so grain of salt and whatnot.

[Forsher]

I do not.

In fact, Bill Gates feels less popular than ever.

What's changed in Microsoft, which now seems like the "good old boy" whom everyone "wants back" in comparison to Google, Amazon, Facebook and Apple rather than "evil old Microsoft".

And I don't think you're right in general; we don't look down on these individuals, we disagree with or dislike them.

Elon Musk is a weird case of a billionaire who acts like a newspaper columnist, it's unusual. Trump's another example, in some respects, but in many ways the comparison is absurd... Musk is so much wealthier than Trump, has done so much better in business than Trump, putting them in the same category is a bit like equating my great-aunt with Trump just because they're both in property. Yes, Trump's (vastly) closer to Musk than my great-aunt is to Trump, but it's ludicrous to say that Trump is the same kind of billionaire as Gates, Musk or Jeff Bezos.

Your ability to read stuff that other people didn't realize they were saying, is amazing.

No, that was unclear. "I do not" was intended to say "I do not [remember when it used to be Gates]". Which is a simple proof, unintentional though it was, of the existence of "stuff people didn't realise they were saying".

You don't agree we look down on Trump and Musk. But disagree or dislike ... see, to me that's almost the same thing. You interpret the phrase "look down on" oddly. As though it's an old fashioned aristocratic thing? When what I mean is "consider morally inferior" which is practically the same thing as "dislike". Weird.

I'm aware of what "look down on" means. I just don't think it is equivalent to "dislike".

I don't dislike Chelsea because I think I'm morally superior to a soccer club. I dislike Chelsea because it's fucking Chelsea. Nor do I dislike eggs because I think I'm morally superior to a culinary ingredient. I dislike the taste. A lot. And I don't dislike Neo Art because I think I'm morally superior. I dislike Neo Art because, and this is ironic, he's a fucking creep that made a career out of defaming not just me but several other posters on this forum and encouraging a rabid crowd of followers to bully and/or gaslight not just the defamed individuals but anyone who tried to point out what they were doing. I don't dislike my cousin because I think I'm morally superior to him. I dislike my cousin because he's obnoxious (seriously, at one time or another he was into Youtube Pranks which rather says it all, I think).

As it happens, I also think I'm morally superior to Neo Art but unless he's also been the victim of some serious defamation since he left this site, that's a very low bar to clear. My cousin, though, is just annoying... probably... my mother said my aunt said her son (a mutual cousin) says he knows people who say the cousin in question is a bully... I can see it both ways (his father, for example, said he was bullied) but it's just gossip I'm getting three times removed from the source (cousin -> aunt -> mother).

Anyway, the contrast between Trump and Musk is just irrelevant venting of your own opinions about them, and doesn't even pass as disagreement since all I ever said was that "we" look down on both of them for the same reason. All explanations about how they differ, really amount to "Forsher doesn't look down on Musk as much". Which doesn't contradict nor support my point.

I don't know, I rather think saying "we look down on both of them for the same reason" really only holds if people think about them the same way... which I don't think they do. Sure, I focus on their wealth but the point is at the end: " it's ludicrous to say that Trump is the same kind of billionaire as Gates, Musk or Jeff Bezos". What I'm leaving unstated is "and that's why people don't think about Trump and Musk the same way". Unless, that is, I was assuming pointing out that

[Ifreann]

Obviously I am referencing the way that Bill Gates has very publicly made pledges to give away all his money and solve any number of the world's problems, and I am very subtly suggesting by the use of scare quotes that the ostensible charitable sentiment is not really sincere.

No, I mean, why did you say "the veneer is peeling on that, though"?

With his opposition to waiving IP laws for the pandemic, people are developing a less positive opinion of him. Discounting the people who think he's trying to inject us all with 5g nanomachines.

[Forsher]

Its advantage is that governments can't track it, and it avoids using dollars as a medium of exchange

I guess, but without anything tangible to back it, it just seems kind of...worthless? Superficial and artificially propped up, at the very least. Then again, cryptocurrency isn't my strong suit, so grain of salt and whatnot.

I should probably know/be able to perceive the difference, but I think the main difference with "ordinary" currency is the lack of government involvement and the volatility. I guess, in principle, the government involvement essentially pegs currencies to real economic conditions but in practice currency is treated as a commodity in much the same way Bitcoin is.

Think of Bitcoin like playing poker with your car keys with a bunch of people who can't drive (and get crippling motion sickness). Maybe the people you're playing with will accept the keys as a form of payment and the value of those keys is entirely dependent on what a bunch of other people think the car is worth, but the keys are worthless to your opponents beyond that (since they can't drive and don't want to be driven).

[Esternial]

Its advantage is that governments can't track it, and it avoids using dollars as a medium of exchange

I guess, but without anything tangible to back it, it just seems kind of...worthless? Superficial and artificially propped up, at the very least. Then again, cryptocurrency isn't my strong suit, so grain of salt and whatnot.

I personally treat it like a stock pretending it's a currency.

It has value because other people value it, and companies value it. For example, MicroStrategy has close to 100K BTC holdings.

[Forsher]

If you're aware of what "look down on" means, you should now say that in your own words. I tried to define it myself, since it seemed to me that you must be interpreting it differently. Yet you insist it is significantly different to "dislike".

"I'm aware" is neither agreement nor disagreement with the definition I gave, and I really don't want to spend the time exchanging long messages with someone who would obfuscate even on such a tiny point.

I remain perplexed that someone so well spoken themselves, can't seem to get my point. Is my writing really that obscure and discursive?

Is my writing really that obscure and discursive? I see no reason why you would imagine I disagreed with your definition of "look down on". Where we disagree is whether disdaining/scorning/looking down on someone is the basis for disliking them. I think there are so many more reasons why we might dislike someone beyond believing ourselves to be morally superior to them. You, apparently, do not.