Ifreann wrote:J o J wrote:
My thoughts is that this thread and that news article shouldn’t have been made. If we are to be treating the LGBTQ community as equals then we should not be making a big deal if a non-binary person gets a position of power. We don’t all celebrate every time a non-LGBTQ individual becomes a mayor, so it’s totally counterintuitive to equality efforts. If you want equality then threads like this ought not exist, otherwise you don’t want equality and you want special treatment. Sure, I agree it’s great that they’ve made this achievement, but you can’t have it both ways...
No, I’m not being “bigoted” towards anybody. I’m just pointing out that this isn’t how you make people equal. This is the opposite.
There are people in this very thread who don't know what being non-binary means, and your proposal is that we ignore the achievement of this non-binary person and pretend that they are just another politician? You think that this will further the cause of equality?
Yes. If you got a problem with that then go raise awareness to the problems that non-binary people face in an unrelated manner. The fact that some people don’t know what non-binary means doesn’t justify giving non-binary people extra praise for something like this just because of their identity. It makes no sense.
Katganistan wrote:By continuing to ignore their existence? By pretending they don't exist, that's how we have equality?
Spoiler alert: there were non-cis people before it became as common as it is now to openly admit that.
And before you complain cis people don't have that -- you're right. Because society's implicit bias assumes all people are cis until they tell you otherwise. Honestly, it should become commonplace that no one assumes orientation until told.
Nobody said they should be ignored, cool it. Just because I resist the idea of giving people special treatment in no way shape or form equates to ignoring them. I said that their achievement didn’t require extra or special attention just because of their identity, and that has nothing to do with ignoring their existence. Their campaign team, supporters, and family should congratulate them in the same way all other politicians experience, and there shouldn’t be any media uproar about it.
Society having some sort of “implicit bias” in the way you are describing it isn’t bad objectively, it’s just the natural way. Most people on the planet are cis, and therefore it is natural and logical to assume that a person is cis unless they tell you otherwise. Sure, resisting the assumption of orientations would be cool but most people aren’t going to do that because they literally lack the reason to do so. For instance, where I live, literally 99% of the people are cis, and so why would they go around asking everybody what their orientations are before talking to them? It just doesn’t make sense and it’s a waste of time for them. Furthermore, referring to this 99% of people with “genderless” pronouns instead of sir or ma’am would likely just be off putting to them and make people go through mental gymnastics to consciously avoid the gendered terms when they don’t even need to. The unfortunate truth is that non-cis folks are insanely outnumbered by cis people almost everywhere, and as such, forcing a 99% cis community like mine to sit there and play the 20 questions game about orientations and sexual identities with each other before conversing normally is just plain dumb.
Tsaivao wrote:Probably has something to do with the fact that all other leaders prior to this one have all been (as far as we know) binary and/or cis-gendered. Imagine thinking that you can have equality so long as you pretend the opposition doesn't exist and isn't allowed to have achievements.
I’m aware that prior leaders were typically cis and/or binary. Imagine thinking that because I don’t buy into identity politics and favoritism that I’m saying non-binary folks don’t exist or that they can’t have achievements. I literally said in my post that I thought it was great that they got the position. They just don’t deserve any special attention because of their identity. This media sensation around the individual in question focuses WHAT THEY ARE rather than WHO THEY ARE, which is detestable. This type of media interest should be reserved for politicians who have done something noteworthy and improved the lives of their constituents, not obsess over that politician’s identity for no good reason. Sure, you’re the first non-binary individual to become a mayor, that’s pretty cool in and of itself, but this specific detail about your rise to the position means nothing outside of that because we are all humans and we should all be treated equally, this detail doesn’t make you a special snowflake that requires mass media attention.
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:Tsaivao wrote:Probably has something to do with the fact that all other leaders prior to this one have all been (as far as we know) binary and/or cis-gendered. Imagine thinking that you can have equality so long as you pretend the opposition doesn't exist and isn't allowed to have achievements.
Or speak of them. I don’t get why they’re so opposed to this being mentioned and discussed.
Maybe because people are making a big deal about this specific mayor out of thousands across the world just because of their orientation? There’s no reason to be making a huge deal about this specific person just because they are non-binary, it literally goes against the idea of equality which everybody should be working towards. Woo, good for you, you’re the first non-binary mayor, but you’re still human like everybody else and you’re not special. If you guys wanted actual equality then we wouldn’t be having this discussion in the first place because you’d agree that this type of media attention towards specific people based solely on their identities or orientations rather than character and merit is absolutely detestable.
There’s nothing wrong with them getting the position, again, I literally said it was good in my original post which you seem to have neglected to read likely due to your blind dismissal for people that disagree with you.