Poll: "US greatest threat to democracy"

[Aggicificicerous]

That's the bulk of my point. I understand why someone in, say, Bolivia might look at America and say "those are the bad guys on the block." I get it. I just don't fully agree with the notion that we are currently the greatest threat to democracy.

I don't understand your reasoning. You acknowledge that the US has toppled other democratic governments, you can understand the the citizens of those governments might harbour a grudge, but you can't understand that those citizens might then consider the US a greater threat to democracy than Russia and China, two countries that haven't toppled their governments?

I think an important caveat also rests with the fact that the Cold War is over. While our foreign policy is still mighty imperfect and hawkish, we're far from the excesses of our Cold War era foreign policy.

It didn't stop after 1990.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_St ... ime_change

[Nilokeras]

That's the bulk of my point. I understand why someone in, say, Bolivia might look at America and say "those are the bad guys on the block." I get it. I just don't fully agree with the notion that we are currently the greatest threat to democracy.

I mean if you're a Bolivian and you get asked the question 'which country is the greatest threat to democracy', you would be 100% justified in answering 'America' considering the greatest threat to Bolivian democracy is definitely America, followed by the EU. They're still dealing with the aftermath of that American-sponsored coup after all. They're not the only countries in that boat either. That's probably why it's a relatively close game between China (38%) and US (44%) in terms of perception - whichever one is greatest in 'proximity' to you is the one you think is the greatest threat. That's multipolarity for you.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

You think the US is not throwing money at people, aside from launching invasions?



To people who still live in the fallout of US cold war policy, that last point offers very little relief.

And your point is kind of moot, since the question asked was 'which state is the greatest threat to democracy in your country?'. Saying that the US itself has mellowed its foreign policy means little for the people who are still suffering the consequences of current US actions.

I'm not following. I'm not belittling the grievances many people have against us, myself included. I'm wondering if we're really "the greatest threat" in comparison to some of the new superpowers on the world stage.

I reckon we aren't, at least, compared to where we were. And I think it is a valid comparison. Plenty of countries have committed atrocities at home and abroad before reversing course, either altogether or gradually. Usually we don't use that as a metric to determine whether or not they're currently the "greatest threat."

But if you live in, say, Afghanistan or Iraq, the US has been a bigger threat to your democratic process, even in the last ten years, than Russia and China combined. The same goes for Bolivia, where the CIA very recently orchastrated a coup. Then there is the influence of Big Tech and large US companies. Don't forget that this survey was taken last year, and so the Trump presidency is also still on-going at that time. An administration that sold weapons to the Saudis and didn't want to push the king there too hard, while implementing autocratic measures at home, and attempting to bribe the president of Ukraine to gain fraudulent information on Biden. And that's all in the past few years. China is bad too, and Russia is meddling very much in the affairs of its neighbours, but no-one quite has the worldwide reach of the US and its economy.

Oh yes, and drone strikes. Drone strikes are a direct threat to the democratic sovereignty of any nation.

On what do you base the supposed worse influence, overall, of Russia and China? Sure, they are worse at home, but they just don't have the reach the US has.

[SD_Film Artists]

It could certainly do away with the two-party system, eternal campaigning* and cringy shock adverts which would look like comedy in a European country, but overall America isn't *that* bad for democracy; indeed the adage of being 'the arsenal of democracy' is more true now that Trump's isolationism has ended (not that Biden is a massive interventionist).

*of course political parties in Europe are always looking for money and attention too, but the difference is that an election is either happening for a few weeks or it isn't, whereas in America the're constantly shaking the donation tin as finance is so important in American politics.

[Saiwania]

Who cares about what the rest of the world believes? The US hasn't ever, and it shouldn't start now. If other countries want to follow China, let them. But if they get exploited for China's benefit and their loss, they can't come crawling back.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

It could certainly do away with the two-party system, eternal campaigning* and cringy shock adverts which would look like comedy in a European country, but overall America isn't *that* bad for democracy; indeed the adage of being 'the arsenal of democracy' is more true now that Trump's isolationism has ended (not that Biden is a massive interventionist).

*of course political parties in Europe are always looking for money and attention too, but the difference is that an election is either happening for a few weeks or it isn't, whereas in America the're constantly shaking the donation tin as finance is so important in American politics.

Interventionism is actually bad for democracy.

And this is not about the US internal system, it's about how they treat the rest of the world, which is appaling.

Who cares about what the rest of the world believes? The US hasn't ever, and it shouldn't start now. If other countries want to follow China, let them. But if they get exploited for China's benefit and their loss, they can't come crawling back.

I don't think anyone would go back to US exploitation; it's not materially different from Chinese exploitation.

[Shofercia]

Despite the US attempting to portray itself as a defender of human rights, freedom, and democracy, it seems that the rest of the world doesn't see it in such a light. A recent survey of 53 nation's participants seems to suggest the opposite, with many finding the US as a threat to democracy.

To quote NPR:

44% of those surveyed said another threat to democracy worldwide is the influence of the United States. That ranked higher than the influence of China or Russia.

The Guardian also noted:

In perhaps the most startling finding, nearly half (44%) of respondents in the 53 countries surveyed are concerned that the US threatens democracy in their country; fear of Chinese influence is by contrast 38%, and fear of Russian influence is lowest at 28%.

Certainly, this is an interesting development, and seems to suggest that the US's facade is finally fading away. I also believe the US is a major threat to democratic freedoms with its intervenionism and economic imperialism. NSG, what do you think?

---

Source:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... lobal-poll
https://www.npr.org/2021/05/05/99375439 ... 0832788646

Not surprised. US invades and coups without clear guidelines. For Russia it's "don't attack Russian Peacekeeping Bases" and don't coup a pro-Russian Government if you border Russia. Those are simple rules for most places to follow. Ditto for China. Someone once said: "I don't care how you referee, as long as you consistently apply the rules to all sides" and Russia/China do. US doesn't. So unless you're bordering Russia/China and/or thinking about attacking their military bases, what've you go to worry about?

[SD_Film Artists]

It could certainly do away with the two-party system, eternal campaigning* and cringy shock adverts which would look like comedy in a European country, but overall America isn't *that* bad for democracy; indeed the adage of being 'the arsenal of democracy' is more true now that Trump's isolationism has ended (not that Biden is a massive interventionist).

*of course political parties in Europe are always looking for money and attention too, but the difference is that an election is either happening for a few weeks or it isn't, whereas in America the're constantly shaking the donation tin as finance is so important in American politics.

Interventionism is actually bad for democracy.

And this is not about the US internal system, it's about how they treat the rest of the world, which is appaling.

But the title is 'threat to democracy' rather than 'threat to Nicaraguan juntas'. In the UK we're already seeing the Presidentialisation of our elections and there was that American running for London Mayor (not that I object to his nationality by itself) who- true to the standards of his homeland- used cringey scare adds in his campaign. It's the soft power of American culture which is a bigger threat rather than having CIA agents hiding in my backyard.

Also IMO there's a difference between interventionism and upholding one's duties as an alliance member. I only mentioned interventionism as America hasn't recently had to work under a Nato mandate.

[-SARS-]

Anyone who thinks that the US is the greatest threat to democracy and human rights worldwide needs to put down the joint and ice their ego.

Besides, we aren’t the only nation on earth that sticks our fingers where they shouldn’t. Superpowers and smaller nations alike practice international meddling and subterfuge. Doesn’t make it right of course but it’s not an American-centric phenomenon. Besides, China, Iran, NK and other states aren’t what I would call paradiso’s.

Those other countries might be less democratic than the US, but they are also less powerful.

The reason why people see the US as a threat is because it has such a strong influence over international events.

Also, because the anti-democratic behavior in the US has gotten MUCH worse recently. People are not used to that and they don't know how far it is going to go. If a country has been undemocratic for a long time, but the situation is steady, people kind of get used to it and know what to expect. When there is a dramatic change, people sit up and take notice.

[Illu-chi]

Anyone who thinks that the US is the greatest threat to democracy and human rights worldwide needs to put down the joint and ice their ego.

Besides, we aren’t the only nation on earth that sticks our fingers where they shouldn’t. Superpowers and smaller nations alike practice international meddling and subterfuge. Doesn’t make it right of course but it’s not an American-centric phenomenon. Besides, China, Iran, NK and other states aren’t what I would call paradiso’s.

Those other countries might be less democratic than the US, but they are also less powerful.

The reason why people see the US as a threat is because it has such a strong influence over international events.

Also, because the anti-democratic behavior in the US has gotten MUCH worse recently. People are not used to that and they don't know how far it is going to go. If a country has been undemocratic for a long time, but the situation is steady, people kind of get used to it and know what to expect. When there is a dramatic change, people sit up and take notice.

What anti-democratic behavior has america done? America has tooken down dictatorships, helped to stop terrorism, and has helped to spread capitalism and democracy to the world.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

Interventionism is actually bad for democracy.

And this is not about the US internal system, it's about how they treat the rest of the world, which is appaling.

But the title is 'threat to democracy' rather than 'threat to Nicaraguan juntas'. In the UK we're already seeing the Presidentialisation of our elections and there was that American running for London Mayor (not that I object to his nationality by itself) who- true to the standards of his homeland- used cringey scare adds in his campaign. It's the soft power of American culture which is a bigger threat rather than having CIA agents hiding in my backyard.

Also IMO there's a difference between interventionism and upholding one's duties as an alliance member. I only mentioned interventionism as America hasn't recently had to work under a Nato mandate.

Okay, so...

1. The US helped put fascist juntas in power;
2. I think you mean UN mandates, not NATO mandates;
3. Are you blaming the UK’s worsening political situation on American individuals, as if its some inmutable characteristic?

[-SARS-]

Those other countries might be less democratic than the US, but they are also less powerful.

The reason why people see the US as a threat is because it has such a strong influence over international events.

Also, because the anti-democratic behavior in the US has gotten MUCH worse recently. People are not used to that and they don't know how far it is going to go. If a country has been undemocratic for a long time, but the situation is steady, people kind of get used to it and know what to expect. When there is a dramatic change, people sit up and take notice.

What anti-democratic behavior has america done? America has tooken down dictatorships, helped to stop terrorism, and has helped to spread capitalism and democracy to the world.

People storming the capitol in an attempt to overturn the results of an election?

[Adamede]

That’s realpolitik for you. Any great power to replace the US isn’t going to be great for democracy either.

[Illu-chi]

What anti-democratic behavior has america done? America has tooken down dictatorships, helped to stop terrorism, and has helped to spread capitalism and democracy to the world.

People storming the capitol in an attempt to overturn the results of an election?

That was just a riot and is internal and wasn't a threat to democracy internationally though.

[Adamede]

Anyone who thinks that the US is the greatest threat to democracy and human rights worldwide needs to put down the joint and ice their ego.

Besides, we aren’t the only nation on earth that sticks our fingers where they shouldn’t. Superpowers and smaller nations alike practice international meddling and subterfuge. Doesn’t make it right of course but it’s not an American-centric phenomenon. Besides, China, Iran, NK and other states aren’t what I would call paradiso’s.

Those other countries might be less democratic than the US, but they are also less powerful.

The reason why people see the US as a threat is because it has such a strong influence over international events.

Also, because the anti-democratic behavior in the US has gotten MUCH worse recently. People are not used to that and they don't know how far it is going to go. If a country has been undemocratic for a long time, but the situation is steady, people kind of get used to it and know what to expect. When there is a dramatic change, people sit up and take notice.

That’s kind of a dumb take considering the US overthrew a lot more governments in the past.

[Atheris]

This is stupid.

[Illu-chi]

Those other countries might be less democratic than the US, but they are also less powerful.

The reason why people see the US as a threat is because it has such a strong influence over international events.

Also, because the anti-democratic behavior in the US has gotten MUCH worse recently. People are not used to that and they don't know how far it is going to go. If a country has been undemocratic for a long time, but the situation is steady, people kind of get used to it and know what to expect. When there is a dramatic change, people sit up and take notice.

That’s kind of a dumb take considering the US overthrew a lot more governments in the past.

The u.s. was mainly Overthrowing governments of undemocratic nations though and when it wasn't it was to bring capitalism and also security(since soviet union having sympathizers aren't good for the u.s.).

[Dejado Atras]

What anti-democratic behavior has america done? America has tooken down dictatorships, helped to stop terrorism, and has helped to spread capitalism and democracy to the world.

People storming the capitol in an attempt to overturn the results of an election?

Okay, like - what - several hundred (I may be off) people rushing inside the capitol to protest/intimidate democratically elected officials in a nation of a rounded up three hundred and fifty million people? This really isn’t the best example to back up your claim…

[Atheris]

People storming the capitol in an attempt to overturn the results of an election?

Okay, like - what - several hundred (I may be off) people rushing inside the capitol to protest/intimidate democratically elected officials in a nation of a rounded up three hundred and fifty million people? This really isn’t the best example to back up your claim…

It was a coup, mind you. They planned to hang members of government, like the Vice President, and overturn a legitimate election.

[The Rich Port]

You know what, the USA isn't perfect, lots of pseudo-fascists and corrupt racist police.

But China and Russia? Worse than America for democracy?

Who the fuck wrote this, Belarussia and the governor of Tibet?

[Atheris]

You know what, the USA isn't perfect, lots of pseudo-fascists and corrupt racist police.

But China and Russia? Worse than America for democracy?

Who the fuck wrote this, Belarussia and the governor of Tibet?

Hold on, you forgot a fingerprint from Kim Yo-Jong, probably in an attempt to get back into the Politburo.

[Luziyca]

I'm not surprised: given America's long history of overthrowing governments that they don't like (such as in Central America, Iran, hell, one could argue Canada was at the receiving end of one of those if we count JFK and Pearson colluding to get rid of Diefenbaker as overthrowing a government they don't like), and given that America has been undermining its own democratic norms, particularly under Trump and the GOP (and I'm sure the GOP will continue going down that path), I too would take America's claim that they're "leading the free world" with a grain of salt or two.

[Lady Victory]

Greatest threat? I don't know about that, but I won't pretend we're the beacon in the dark we pretend to be.

We should be the beacon in the dark, though. Someone needs to be.

[Dejado Atras]

Okay, like - what - several hundred (I may be off) people rushing inside the capitol to protest/intimidate democratically elected officials in a nation of a rounded up three hundred and fifty million people? This really isn’t the best example to back up your claim…

It was a coup, mind you. They planned to hang members of government, like the Vice President, and overturn a legitimate election.

Again, a few hundred disillusioned citizens that rushed the capitol shouldn’t be used as ammunition for “America is anti-democratic”. Just like four years of whining, rioting, endless hearings, and accusations from the other side IMO shouldn’t paint America as an anti-democratic nation.

Judging an entirety based on extremists/rads is so adorably left wing.

[Illu-chi]

Okay, like - what - several hundred (I may be off) people rushing inside the capitol to protest/intimidate democratically elected officials in a nation of a rounded up three hundred and fifty million people? This really isn’t the best example to back up your claim…

It was a coup, mind you. They planned to hang members of government, like the Vice President, and overturn a legitimate election.

That was not a coup. It was a riot and if it was a coup it was the worst coup ever. If it was a coup there would have been much more violence.