NationStates

SD_Film Artists wrote:

Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States wrote:You know I'm an activist, right? I have been part of BLM and antifascist action. This sentence just doesn't work if you turn it around.

Then you'll know how BLM and by extension the ACAB crowd has become so addicted to quantifying everything by American ideas of race and policing that the idea of an unarmed policeman treating people nicely in a suburb where people are Welsh first, British second, European third and white fourth is completely incomprehensible as it goes against the useful narrative that everyone lives in an NWA video. I've even known autistic ACABers to be against the idea of autistic policemen as they're too busy screaming "ACAB" to actually see how better inclusivity and training can help.


As for Antifa (assuming you meant the group rather than anti-fascism) is the hypocrisy lost on them when they say "not my prime minister" after a democratic election?

Yo, listen up here's a story
About a little guy
That lives in a straw world
And all day and all night
And everything he sees is just straw

National Capitalist United States wrote:

503 wrote:"Suppression of Hongkongers" is an extreme oversimplification that ignores historical nuances related to colonisation, British propaganda, and how 'liberal democracies' only began to pay attention to the political situation following 1997. And maybe you should be seeing the US's rigging of social media, drone striking the Middle East and South Asia, investing in and selling arms to their authoritarian allies such as Saudi Arabia, and toppling every regime left of Thatcher they can find.

This is your brain on the CCP

I've made no secret my dislike of the present day CCP direction, so there's no need to accuse me of holding sympathies there.

Sungoldy-China wrote:Now the US has become a threat to democracy? The reason is simple: the wealth the US has plundered for so long is not enough to maintain democracy in other countries, instead the US needs to start plundering wealth again to maintain its own democracy as a luxury, so that it is back on the right path.

But then the question must be raised: the US may be a great threat to democracy around the world, but has the US even been able to maintain democracy within its borders?

503 wrote:

National Capitalist United States wrote:This is your brain on the CCP

I've made no secret my dislike of the present day CCP direction, so there's no need to accuse me of holding sympathies there.

But you don't like national bolshevism for example? huh? lol

I would say that Populism is the greatest threat to democracy. Donald Trump and Jair Bolsonaro are some examples of that.

North Washington Republic wrote:I would say that Populism is the greatest threat to democracy. Donald Trump and Jair Bolsonaro are some examples of that.

Indeed. There's many leaders around the world right now that did something similar to:

1. "Hey citizens, I promise to completely change this country for a better future! [Insert 'robust' plan]"
2. Wins the vote due to extended campaigning and promises, gets elected
3. "Ahahahaha I tricked you, this country's going to be the same old bad nation!"

Repeat until revolution occurs.
It's sickening

North Washington Republic wrote:I would say that Populism is the greatest threat to democracy. Donald Trump and Jair Bolsonaro are some examples of that.

Yep, just look at Colombia and Venezuela

North Washington Republic wrote:I would say that Populism is the greatest threat to democracy. Donald Trump and Jair Bolsonaro are some examples of that.

Trump may have been a lumbering dotard, but he was not a threat to democracy that never existed in the first place.

The US has a very long history of supporting/organizing military coups, blockades, terrorist organizations or outright invasions against governments they don't like, all around the world. To a much greater extend than any other country, even Russia or China tend to stay to their close neighbors, or do it in a much softer way (such as propaganda / unleashing Internet trolls), or France limits itself mostly to its former colonies. So yes, since the end of WW2, USA had been overall the greatest threat to democracy world-wide.

Dejado Atras wrote:Anyone who thinks that the US is the greatest threat to democracy and human rights worldwide needs to put down the joint and ice their ego.

Besides, we aren’t the only nation on earth that sticks our fingers where they shouldn’t. Superpowers and smaller nations alike practice international meddling and subterfuge. Doesn’t make it right of course but it’s not an American-centric phenomenon. Besides, China, Iran, NK and other states aren’t what I would call paradiso’s.

And stop listening to American so-called "academics" and other left-wing ideologues.

Well, considering they're the biggest advocate of capitalism on a global scale that idea seems justified to me. After all capitalism is fundamentally uindemocratic...

James_xenoland wrote:

Dejado Atras wrote:Anyone who thinks that the US is the greatest threat to democracy and human rights worldwide needs to put down the joint and ice their ego.

Besides, we aren’t the only nation on earth that sticks our fingers where they shouldn’t. Superpowers and smaller nations alike practice international meddling and subterfuge. Doesn’t make it right of course but it’s not an American-centric phenomenon. Besides, China, Iran, NK and other states aren’t what I would call paradiso’s.

And stop listening to American so-called "academics" and other left-wing ideologues.

Hey, just for the checklist:

Do you reject modern architecture and art?
Do you believe in some conspiracy that keeps the US from its true potential?
Do you think yourself some elite, and do you look down upon those ‘weaker’?

There's this persistent line of argument that runs "the United States is a free and democratic society and therefore it cannot be an enemy, or at least cannot be as great an enemy, to freedom and democracy."

Which I find just blatantly ridiculous. The United States - and, for that matter, the former European colonial powers - have made very clear that democracy at home means nothing when it comes to supporting democracy abroad in their foreign policies.

The Anglo-American influence to be more specific.

Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States wrote:

Major-Tom wrote:I think a lot of those nations surveyed obviously have the wrong idea. If you're someone who has grievances toward America and you live in, say, a developing country where American foreign policy has screwed you over in the past, obviously you might answer "America" per this particular survey.

But it wouldn't make you right, even if those grievances are legitimate. Similarly, I think there is a lot to be said about America's tenuous relationship with democracy abroad, but as of current, we're doing a lot better than China or Russia in that category.

Maybe internally, but the US has had more reach abroad, supporting fascist regimes all over the world to curb soviet influence. So yeah, of you are in a country where democracy has been undermined by American foreign policy, you might see thr US as a big threat to democracy. And you’d be right.

Nah, you'd be too high off your personal grievance to see the bigger picture.

America, at the end of the day, is at least answerable to its own voters, many of whom have friends or family overseas. These voters will at least WANT America to do the right thing, whereas scum like Vladimir Putin or Xi Jinping couldn't care less what the right thing is.

How trustworthy are polls, anyways? 40% of US population supports "socialism" and 86% supports "free enterprise", bringing the total to 126%. 80% also supports "mandatory labels on foods containing DNA", which is, uh, what?

North Washington Republic wrote:I would say that Populism is the greatest threat to democracy. Donald Trump and Jair Bolsonaro are some examples of that.

Certainly a threat to it, since real democracy isn't possible with the sort of religious-style hero worship people like Trump seem to somehow attract. Not sure if it is the 'greatest' threat or not though, with the looming threats of an ascendant China and the possible bad outcome of automation.

Resilient Acceleration wrote:How trustworthy are polls, anyways? 40% of US population supports "socialism" and 86% supports "free enterprise", bringing the total to 126%. 80% also supports "mandatory labels on foods containing DNA", which is, uh, what?

Oh, polls aren't necessarily trustworthy, but if people are even so much as pretending to think the US is the greatest threat to democracy that's still alarming.

GuessTheAltAccount wrote:America, at the end of the day, is at least answerable to its own voters, many of whom have friends or family overseas. These voters will at least WANT America to do the right thing, whereas scum like Vladimir Putin or Xi Jinping couldn't care less what the right thing is.

Unfortunately this is what an increasing number of people do not seem to appreciate. While the US is awful in many ways and has committed numerous atrocities even in the very recent past, as a superpower it remains one of the least terrible in history and remains infinitely preferable to Putin's RF or Xi's PRC, for example, whose authority is entirely unaccountable to the public. The US government must at least appear to be a moral actor to the world. The current troubles it is undergoing is deeply problematic for a world in which the only alternatives are authoritarian lunatics who care little for concepts such as human rights, transparency or even truth at all.

Resilient Acceleration wrote:How trustworthy are polls, anyways? 40% of US population supports "socialism" and 86% supports "free enterprise", bringing the total to 126%.

"Socialism" and "free enterprise" aren't necessarily opposite, if you consider cooperatives, which are both a from of socialism and of free enterprise.

But to be fair, most US citizen probably understand "socialism" as "social democracy".

Resilient Acceleration wrote:80% also supports "mandatory labels on foods containing DNA", which is, uh, what?

I would assume they understand that as GM food, but yeah it shows a very scary lack of scientific awareness...

Koletsia wrote:as a superpower it remains one of the least terrible in history and remains infinitely preferable to Putin's RF or Xi's PRC, for example,

[citation needed]

Koletsia wrote:whose authority is entirely unaccountable to the public.

Which “public” is this? Because to the 95% of the world population who aren’t Americans, the US government can be held accountable for their actions exactly to the same extent that the Russians or Chinese can.

Koletsia wrote:The US government must at least appear to be a moral actor to the world.

So must China and Russia. Or the people in our minor democracies will refuse to do business with them. Or do you not remember the 2014 anti-Russian sanctions?

Koletsia wrote:The current troubles it is undergoing is deeply problematic for a world in which the only alternatives are authoritarian lunatics who care little for concepts such as human rights, transparency or even truth at all.

People who care little for human rights, transparency, or truth is also an adequate descriptor for people who set and carry out US foreign policy.

There is this weird perception that because the US is a free country at home, it must also be less of a threat to freedom abroad than countries which are not free even at home. This is obviously untrue and I don’t know where it comes from.

Northern Socialist Council Republics wrote:...

If you live in a Nordic country you have the US to thank for ensuring that the USSR did not encroach further west. Unless you actually believe the USSR would have been a net benefit to Nordic states, in which case, I invite you to speak with people from the Baltic states.

Koletsia wrote:-snip-

Remind me which superpower diplomatically pressured Sweden (in the ‘60s) and South Korea (in the ‘70s) into giving up their nuclear programmes, thus ensuring that they depend on the existence of a greater anti-Soviet world for their own protection from the USSR?

‘Cause it definitely wasn’t the Soviets themselves.

It’s kind of absurd being told that the minor democracies should be thankful for American guarantees when the United States is a large part of the reason why we are unable to meaningfully defend ourselves in the first place.

Northern Socialist Council Republics wrote:

Koletsia wrote:-snip-

Remind me which superpower diplomatically pressured Sweden (in the ‘60s) and South Korea (in the ‘70s) into giving up their nuclear programmes, thus ensuring that they depend on the existence of a greater anti-Soviet world for their own protection from the USSR?

Can you provide any evidence that Sweden's signing of the Non-Proliferation Treaty was pressured by the US? I have never read any such thing personally.

GuessTheAltAccount wrote:

Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States wrote:Maybe internally, but the US has had more reach abroad, supporting fascist regimes all over the world to curb soviet influence. So yeah, of you are in a country where democracy has been undermined by American foreign policy, you might see thr US as a big threat to democracy. And you’d be right.

Nah, you'd be too high off your personal grievance to see the bigger picture.

America, at the end of the day, is at least answerable to its own voters, many of whom have friends or family overseas. These voters will at least WANT America to do the right thing, whereas scum like Vladimir Putin or Xi Jinping couldn't care less what the right thing is.

This is all theoretical, and not even a good theory at that. People with family abroad are not a deciding voter base in the US. As has been shown, by the way, by practice, which goes against what you hypothesize. US foreign policy is not primarily driven by democratisation, so no matter how democratic the US itself is, its influence abroad is a danger to democracy, as has been shown in Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Bolivia, Venezuela, South Africa... you name it. “The right thing” for the US is not always democracy, if there even is such a thing as “the right thing”.

Koletsia wrote:

GuessTheAltAccount wrote:America, at the end of the day, is at least answerable to its own voters, many of whom have friends or family overseas. These voters will at least WANT America to do the right thing, whereas scum like Vladimir Putin or Xi Jinping couldn't care less what the right thing is.

Unfortunately this is what an increasing number of people do not seem to appreciate. While the US is awful in many ways and has committed numerous atrocities even in the very recent past, as a superpower it remains one of the least terrible in history and remains infinitely preferable to Putin's RF or Xi's PRC, for example, whose authority is entirely unaccountable to the public. The US government must at least appear to be a moral actor to the world. The current troubles it is undergoing is deeply problematic for a world in which the only alternatives are authoritarian lunatics who care little for concepts such as human rights, transparency or even truth at all.

You act like the US’ meddling in world affairs somehow prevents Russia and the PRC from acting. First, this could be done without threatening democracy. In fact, strengthening democratic institutions internationally would help against foreign influence. Russia does not even have the capacity to influence countries in the way the US can.

But the US does not have those interests in mind. It primarily influences other countries to serve its own short term and corporate interests, and blocking the PRC and Russia are just necessary byproducts of that.