Pagan/Polytheistic Discussion Thread: By the Gods!

[Herzpunkt]

Just noticing, how come there are zero people listing Hinduism on the poll (when I saw it, just now)? It's the third most-followed faith in the world. Just odd to me

I don't think it qualifies as pagan. And would perhaps be served with its own discussion thread precisely because it is the third most-followed faith in the world.

Its definatley pagan/polytheistic

Maybe not many Hindus online

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Reading about this was interesting. I had never heard of Tengerism. My encounters with Shamanism have always been of the Amerindian variety.

They have a lot of similarities! Shamanism is actually a word for indigenous Siberian religion, taken from the Siberian word "saman" for their village's spirit healer. When Europeans encountered this they compared it to Native American medicine men, and thus "Shamanism" was born.

Both Eurasian shamanism and Native American shamanism venerate spirits, emerged in tight-knit nomadic communities, and had a village elder who healed people. They differ in that Eurasian shamanism is more like European paganism: there are gods with big personalities and the shaman essentially does spiritual warfare and exorcises people of bad spirits. Also, Native American religions sometimes don't have a shaman in the Eurasian sense, they just have medicine men who specialize in herbal medicines and such.

One of my issues here in the West is that I'd go to a shamanic circle, and they'd start by invoking the four directions. But they'd use the wrong colors associated with each direction in Mongolian Shamanism. They'd name different gods like Pachamama, etc. They'd bring up spirits I hadn't heard of, make offerings with fruits when I learned certain spirits you only make offerings with meat or milk, etc.

When you expect the spirits you're talking to to be real, it becomes hard to just participate in a ceremony for some spirit you've never met or worshipped before. It's like calling the wrong phone number and asking for a different name. As far as I know, there aren't any specifically Mongolian Shamanist groups in the US.

I love it, never talked to someone who followed tengrism

Thanks!

Ironically, Tengrism is the Turkish version. Tengerism is the Mongol version. Same gods, different names and spelling

Do you find it religiously shocking even though it is still shamanism?

I’m even surprised they invoke the Pachamama because I thought that was exclusive of Andean religions and Chilean patriotism.

[Enjuku]

Just noticing, how come there are zero people listing Hinduism on the poll (when I saw it, just now)? It's the third most-followed faith in the world. Just odd to me

From what I understand, some Hindu faiths actually wouldn't be considered polytheistic or pagan. Some are pantheistic (there's one god whose in different forms) or almost monotheistic (I think Hare Krisna is like that?).

Not an authority on it but I'd guess some Hindus might not consider themselves Pagans.

[Enjuku]

They have a lot of similarities! Shamanism is actually a word for indigenous Siberian religion, taken from the Siberian word "saman" for their village's spirit healer. When Europeans encountered this they compared it to Native American medicine men, and thus "Shamanism" was born.

Both Eurasian shamanism and Native American shamanism venerate spirits, emerged in tight-knit nomadic communities, and had a village elder who healed people. They differ in that Eurasian shamanism is more like European paganism: there are gods with big personalities and the shaman essentially does spiritual warfare and exorcises people of bad spirits. Also, Native American religions sometimes don't have a shaman in the Eurasian sense, they just have medicine men who specialize in herbal medicines and such.

One of my issues here in the West is that I'd go to a shamanic circle, and they'd start by invoking the four directions. But they'd use the wrong colors associated with each direction in Mongolian Shamanism. They'd name different gods like Pachamama, etc. They'd bring up spirits I hadn't heard of, make offerings with fruits when I learned certain spirits you only make offerings with meat or milk, etc.

When you expect the spirits you're talking to to be real, it becomes hard to just participate in a ceremony for some spirit you've never met or worshipped before. It's like calling the wrong phone number and asking for a different name. As far as I know, there aren't any specifically Mongolian Shamanist groups in the US.



Thanks!

Ironically, Tengrism is the Turkish version. Tengerism is the Mongol version. Same gods, different names and spelling

Do you find it religiously shocking even though it is still shamanism?

I’m even surprised they invoke the Pachamama because I thought that was exclusive of Andean religions and Chilean patriotism.

It's a little jarring yeah. People in the West who do identify as "Shamanist" vary between traditionalists like myself who follow one type of shamanism, to new age people that kind've dip their toes in all the different shamanic religions.

Like "Mother Earth" in Shamanism could be "Mother Earth" in a lot of different religions. In Mongolian Shamanism, Mother Earth is Gezer Eej, the wife of Father Sky (whose the equivalent of God in Christianity). Gezer Eej and her daughter Itugan are responsible for the World Tree, where a specific human soul gets reincarnated after death. She gets a specific offering and she has her own holidays associated with the moon.

I wouldn't know how Mother Earth is venerated in say, Navajo religion. But if some shamanic circle is new age, they just bring up "Mother Earth" and give offerings and prayers that literally don't apply to the Mongol version of Mother Earth.

So it can be difficult at times.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Do you find it religiously shocking even though it is still shamanism?

I’m even surprised they invoke the Pachamama because I thought that was exclusive of Andean religions and Chilean patriotism.

It's a little jarring yeah. People in the West who do identify as "Shamanist" vary between traditionalists like myself who follow one type of shamanism, to new age people that kind've dip their toes in all the different shamanic religions.

Like "Mother Earth" in Shamanism could be "Mother Earth" in a lot of different religions. In Mongolian Shamanism, Mother Earth is Gezer Eej, the wife of Father Sky (whose the equivalent of God in Christianity). Gezer Eej and her daughter Itugan are responsible for the World Tree, where a specific human soul gets reincarnated after death. She gets a specific offering and she has her own holidays associated with the moon.

I wouldn't know how Mother Earth is venerated in say, Navajo religion. But if some shamanic circle is new age, they just bring up "Mother Earth" and give offerings and prayers that literally don't apply to the Mongol version of Mother Earth.

So it can be difficult at times.

Sounds like there’s a lot of different shamanic practices that are merged into one belief system, which would account for the jarring feeling. You follow something more “pure” (can’t think of a better word)- perhaps close to the source sounds better.

We have a family friend who decided to become a shaman and iirc, I chose to do it in Peru because he wanted his journey into it to be “pure” and not new age. I think he follows the pre-Incan shamanic rituals.

[Lady Victory]

New Age is just a continuation of the hippie movement tbh.

[Enjuku]

It's a little jarring yeah. People in the West who do identify as "Shamanist" vary between traditionalists like myself who follow one type of shamanism, to new age people that kind've dip their toes in all the different shamanic religions.

Like "Mother Earth" in Shamanism could be "Mother Earth" in a lot of different religions. In Mongolian Shamanism, Mother Earth is Gezer Eej, the wife of Father Sky (whose the equivalent of God in Christianity). Gezer Eej and her daughter Itugan are responsible for the World Tree, where a specific human soul gets reincarnated after death. She gets a specific offering and she has her own holidays associated with the moon.

I wouldn't know how Mother Earth is venerated in say, Navajo religion. But if some shamanic circle is new age, they just bring up "Mother Earth" and give offerings and prayers that literally don't apply to the Mongol version of Mother Earth.

So it can be difficult at times.

Sounds like there’s a lot of different shamanic practices that are merged into one belief system, which would account for the jarring feeling. You follow something more “pure” (can’t think of a better word)- perhaps close to the source sounds better.

We have a family friend who decided to become a shaman and iirc, I chose to do it in Peru because he wanted his journey into it to be “pure” and not new age. I think he follows the pre-Incan shamanic rituals.

That makes sense yeah. It's sometimes hard to explain because the New Age people can do whatever. But mixing New Age with traditional is like mixing "Jesus is everything man" hippies with, idk, devout Catholics? They don't mesh.

Good for your family friend tbh, that takes dedication. Peruvian and Amazonian shamanism is pretty neat. A lot of people hear about it because of ayahuasca, but the real similarity is that their shamans are preordained, just like in Mongol Shamanism. Basically you need to be "chosen" by having a near-death experience and an existing shaman gets verification from the spirits and takes you on as an apprentice. That's as traditional as you can get.

Meanwhile, I think they sell degrees in Shamanism in Mexico somewhere. You take a class and get a Shaman certificate. Dunno about that!

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Sounds like there’s a lot of different shamanic practices that are merged into one belief system, which would account for the jarring feeling. You follow something more “pure” (can’t think of a better word)- perhaps close to the source sounds better.

We have a family friend who decided to become a shaman and iirc, I chose to do it in Peru because he wanted his journey into it to be “pure” and not new age. I think he follows the pre-Incan shamanic rituals.

That makes sense yeah. It's sometimes hard to explain because the New Age people can do whatever. But mixing New Age with traditional is like mixing "Jesus is everything man" hippies with, idk, devout Catholics? They don't mesh.

Good for your family friend tbh, that takes dedication. Peruvian and Amazonian shamanism is pretty neat. A lot of people hear about it because of ayahuasca, but the real similarity is that their shamans are preordained, just like in Mongol Shamanism. Basically you need to be "chosen" by having a near-death experience and an existing shaman gets verification from the spirits and takes you on as an apprentice. That's as traditional as you can get.

Meanwhile, I think they sell degrees in Shamanism in Mexico somewhere. You take a class and get a Shaman certificate. Dunno about that!

I want to say he is with the Paqos but I’m not sure. I thought the Qe’ro didn’t have shamans but this is waaaaayyyyy outside my knowledge. He’s been at it for at least 20 years and says it has made him incredibly happy.

Shamanism degrees, what? That’s wild.

[Enjuku]

That makes sense yeah. It's sometimes hard to explain because the New Age people can do whatever. But mixing New Age with traditional is like mixing "Jesus is everything man" hippies with, idk, devout Catholics? They don't mesh.

Good for your family friend tbh, that takes dedication. Peruvian and Amazonian shamanism is pretty neat. A lot of people hear about it because of ayahuasca, but the real similarity is that their shamans are preordained, just like in Mongol Shamanism. Basically you need to be "chosen" by having a near-death experience and an existing shaman gets verification from the spirits and takes you on as an apprentice. That's as traditional as you can get.

Meanwhile, I think they sell degrees in Shamanism in Mexico somewhere. You take a class and get a Shaman certificate. Dunno about that!

I want to say he is with the Paqos but I’m not sure. I thought the Qe’ro didn’t have shamans but this is waaaaayyyyy outside my knowledge. He’s been at it for at least 20 years and says it has made him incredibly happy.

Shamanism degrees, what? That’s wild.

It's a lifetime job, being a shaman. That's good he's happy with it. You're essentially a 24/7 doctor for the community you're in.

Yeah Shamanism degrees, it's wild. A big way to know if they're a new age shaman with some degree and a real shaman isn't what you think. Real shamans charge a fee for their services, because it's their livelihood and you can't hold another job. In Siberia, going to a shaman is no different from going to a specialist doctor. Fake shamans either claim to be "for free" or say it's "offensive" to charge money for rituals. (Then they usually try to guilt trip you into "donating" afterward). Or they charge obnoxious amounts of money for a "Reiki healing" or something that's definitely a mish-mash of different traditions.

[Alaska Hawaii and the Aleutes]

so,,, discussion question or whatever since there's none in the op:
what lead you to [insert polytheistic religion here]?

may or may not put my answer here at some other time

I am still figuring out my belief, but I guess I follow my own one. The thought of a "god" scares me, so I believe in multiple deities that can help you through life if you do something that benefits others, benefits you while not hurting others or praises the deities in a way which doesn't hurt you or others.

I don't believe in morally "good" and "bad" things either as I believe the interpretation of those words can have different terms associated with them depending on each and every person. The "norms" is just the interpretation of the majority in my opinion.

To be honest, I've had some problems (and still have) figuring out who or what I believe in after I stopped being a Christian.

[Suriyanakhon]

Where do you people live where the woods are safe to walk barefoot in? Every woodland I've ever seen was so rough and littered with rocks, sticks, and exposed roots any attempt at walking barefoot through them would likely be extremely painful at worst and painstakingly uncomfortable at best.

The ants would devour my feet if I did.

Which I guess is good kamma for me, but I'm not sure the trade off is worth it.

[The Emerald Legion]

Where do you people live where the woods are safe to walk barefoot in? Every woodland I've ever seen was so rough and littered with rocks, sticks, and exposed roots any attempt at walking barefoot through them would likely be extremely painful at worst and painstakingly uncomfortable at best.

Between the intersection of poisonous snakes and local kids who don't think twice about smashing beer bottles on trees.... yeah, walking in the woods barefoot isn't a great idea here.

[Wink Wonk We Like Stonks]

so,,, discussion question or whatever since there's none in the op:
what lead you to [insert polytheistic religion here]?

may or may not put my answer here at some other time

I am still figuring out my belief, but I guess I follow my own one. The thought of a "god" scares me, so I believe in multiple deities that can help you through life if you do something that benefits others, benefits you while not hurting others or praises the deities in a way which doesn't hurt you or others.

I don't believe in morally "good" and "bad" things either as I believe the interpretation of those words can have different terms associated with them depending on each and every person. The "norms" is just the interpretation of the majority in my opinion.

To be honest, I've had some problems (and still have) figuring out who or what I believe in after I stopped being a Christian.

yeah, Christianity kinda fucked me up too. as of now, i'm basically agnostic with a side of existential dread. i did spend/am still kind of spending some time looking into witchcraft, but i was never Wicca, nor did i ever commit to worshiping any gods in particular. polytheism is still something i find very interesting. the idea of multiple gods with specific domains is more comforting to me than one omnipotent one.

Where do you people live where the woods are safe to walk barefoot in? Every woodland I've ever seen was so rough and littered with rocks, sticks, and exposed roots any attempt at walking barefoot through them would likely be extremely painful at worst and painstakingly uncomfortable at best.

Between the intersection of poisonous snakes and local kids who don't think twice about smashing beer bottles on trees.... yeah, walking in the woods barefoot isn't a great idea here.

hanging out in the woods with shoes on is nice too, though those snakes may still be an issue.

[HammerDownium]

Hi I'm actually a Pagan aswell. I used to be Wiccan but I recently came into my own faith of a more eclectic Paganism after a crisis of faith caused by heavy anxiety. It's nice to know that there are other Pagans here. It's very comforting.

[Nakena]

polytheism is still something i find very interesting. the idea of multiple gods with specific domains is more comforting to me than one omnipotent one.

Mind you the omnipotence abrahamic monotheism idea is fake. And theres a simple way how to recognize that, namely that it explicitly forbidden to worship other gods, do magick or anything. Or even have sex outside of marriage.

The idea behind that is really when you think about it, the total monopoly of any form of human spirituality, sexuality and ultimatively life itself. Everything has to be dedicated to, or sanctioned by the monotheist abrahamic god specifically.

And under no circumstances you are allowed to go to any competition.

Go figure.

[Suriyanakhon]

Nothing spectacular, had a collection of Jataka tales from the library as a kid which I read and enjoyed. I shifted in between different sects for a lot of years before I started attending a Thai American temple and a Pali study group.

I love it

Their are no viable hofs near me, so i might have to go to a Hindu temple as a substitute(still will pray to the aesir and vanir)

The hard part is finding a good community

It might be a bit difficult because while some Hindu deities have counterparts in other Indo-European pantheons (such as Indra), most temples nowadays are devoted to ones who don't (such as Shiva, Vishnu, or Durga).

[Immortan Khan]

I don't think it qualifies as pagan. And would perhaps be served with its own discussion thread precisely because it is the third most-followed faith in the world.

Its definatley pagan/polytheistic

Maybe not many Hindus online

While a lot of strains of Hinduism would best be described as polytheistic, Hinduism has a very, very wide range of theological beliefs including monotheism, henotheism, etc. I guess actually probably the "best" descriptor for what would cover the most strains of Hindu theological thought would be panentheism.

[Herzpunkt]

I love it

Their are no viable hofs near me, so i might have to go to a Hindu temple as a substitute(still will pray to the aesir and vanir)

The hard part is finding a good community

It might be a bit difficult because while some Hindu deities have counterparts in other Indo-European pantheons (such as Indra), most temples nowadays are devoted to ones who don't (such as Shiva, Vishnu, or Durga).

When i get a house ill probably buy a barn and convert it into a temple

[The Emerald Legion]

It might be a bit difficult because while some Hindu deities have counterparts in other Indo-European pantheons (such as Indra), most temples nowadays are devoted to ones who don't (such as Shiva, Vishnu, or Durga).

When i get a house ill probably but a barn and convert it into a temple

Could just do a shrine. I just have a little offering plate that I set at the foot of the front steps when I want to offer something.

[Wink Wonk We Like Stonks]

polytheism is still something i find very interesting. the idea of multiple gods with specific domains is more comforting to me than one omnipotent one.

Mind you the omnipotence abrahamic monotheism idea is fake. And theres a simple way how to recognize that, namely that it explicitly forbidden to worship other gods, do magick or anything. Or even have sex outside of marriage.

The idea behind that is really when you think about it, the total monopoly of any form of human spirituality, sexuality and ultimately life itself. Everything has to be dedicated to, or sanctioned by the monotheist abrahamic god specifically.

And under no circumstances you are allowed to go to any competition.

Go figure.

huh. now that you say it, the abrahamic god does seem awfully jealous of nonexistent deities...

When i get a house ill probably but a barn and convert it into a temple

Could just do a shrine. I just have a little offering plate that I set at the foot of the front steps when I want to offer something.

i think there's something nice about smaller altars/shrines, besides the fact you don't have to build a new structure. the simplicity? but to each their own.

[Herzpunkt]

When i get a house ill probably but a barn and convert it into a temple

Could just do a shrine. I just have a little offering plate that I set at the foot of the front steps when I want to offer something.

Maybe

I want a structure though

Maybe a small Hof and a large shrine nearby, and a small grove

[Washington Resistance Army]

Hellenist here, AMA

[Suriyanakhon]

Hellenist here, AMA

Do you think Aeneas actually existed and founded Rome.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Hellenist here, AMA

Do you think Aeneas actually existed and founded Rome.

Impossible to say tbh. The Trojan War story is pretty clearly based on real things and possibly people but given the absolute scarcity of records from that part of Europe at the time we'll never know. Such is the tragedy of Bronze Age history everywhere outside of a select few locales.

[Herzpunkt]

Hellenist here, AMA

Hail!

I was wonderingly when you would be here, welcome