NationStates

(not sure if already posted)
One Mosque Built, One Christian Monument Destroyed Every Two Weeks In "Modern France".

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news ... -two-weeks

"One religious building is disappearing in France every two weeks.

That is the conclusion of Edouard de Lamaze, president of the Observatoire du patrimoine religieux (Observatory of Religious Heritage) in Paris.

He is raising the alarm in the French media about the gradual disappearance of religious edifices in a country known as the “eldest daughter of the Church” because the Frankish King Clovis I embraced Catholicism in 496.

Lamaze’s appeal for increased awareness came after a fire destroyed the 16th-century Church of Saint-Pierre in Romilly-la-Puthenaye, Normandy, northern France. The fire, deemed accidental, took place on April 15, exactly two years after the blaze that devastated Notre-Dame Cathedral in Paris.
...
Lamaze told CNA in an interview that in addition to one religious building disappearing every two weeks -- by demolition, transformation, destruction by fire, or collapse -- two-thirds of fires in religious buildings are due to arson.

“Although Catholic monuments are still ahead, one mosque is erected every 15 days in France, while one Christian building is destroyed at the same pace,” Lamaze said. “It creates a tipping point on the territory that should be taken into account.”"

A lot of those 'accidental' fires going around lately in France.
Such a drag that all the targeted vandalism seems to affect christian iconography and spare muslim.
Coincidences, coincidences...

I, for one, applaud OP for being totally fair and unbiased whatsoever by not making baseless insinuations on nothing more than pure coincidence without any hard evidence to back up his claims.

Hats off to you, OP.

/s

Do you really need Christianity as an antidote to Islam? Some of Islam's most fervent critics happen to be anti-theists.

The Sovereign Realist State wrote:(not sure if already posted)
One Mosque Built, One Christian Monument Destroyed Every Two Weeks In "Modern France".

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news ... -two-weeks

"One religious building is disappearing in France every two weeks.

That is the conclusion of Edouard de Lamaze, president of the Observatoire du patrimoine religieux (Observatory of Religious Heritage) in Paris.

He is raising the alarm in the French media about the gradual disappearance of religious edifices in a country known as the “eldest daughter of the Church” because the Frankish King Clovis I embraced Catholicism in 496.

Lamaze’s appeal for increased awareness came after a fire destroyed the 16th-century Church of Saint-Pierre in Romilly-la-Puthenaye, Normandy, northern France. The fire, deemed accidental, took place on April 15, exactly two years after the blaze that devastated Notre-Dame Cathedral in Paris.
...
Lamaze told CNA in an interview that in addition to one religious building disappearing every two weeks -- by demolition, transformation, destruction by fire, or collapse -- two-thirds of fires in religious buildings are due to arson.

“Although Catholic monuments are still ahead, one mosque is erected every 15 days in France, while one Christian building is destroyed at the same pace,” Lamaze said. “It creates a tipping point on the territory that should be taken into account.”"

A lot of those 'accidental' fires going around lately in France.
Such a drag that all the targeted vandalism seems to affect christian iconography and spare muslim.
Coincidences, coincidences...

Can I see the source for that timeline, namely one Mosque erected every 15 days and one Christian Church destroyed every 15 days. I highly doubt that destroyers and builders would coordinate to such a degree, unless we're talking about Hollywood movies.

That said, for me the biggest issue would be that according to the most recent figures from France’s central criminal intelligence unit, 877 attacks on Catholic places of worship were recorded across the country in 2018 alone. Europe really needs to stop playing softball with those attackers.

The Sovereign Realist State wrote:(not sure if already posted)
One Mosque Built, One Christian Monument Destroyed Every Two Weeks In "Modern France".

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news ... -two-weeks

"One religious building is disappearing in France every two weeks.

That is the conclusion of Edouard de Lamaze, president of the Observatoire du patrimoine religieux (Observatory of Religious Heritage) in Paris.

He is raising the alarm in the French media about the gradual disappearance of religious edifices in a country known as the “eldest daughter of the Church” because the Frankish King Clovis I embraced Catholicism in 496.

Lamaze’s appeal for increased awareness came after a fire destroyed the 16th-century Church of Saint-Pierre in Romilly-la-Puthenaye, Normandy, northern France. The fire, deemed accidental, took place on April 15, exactly two years after the blaze that devastated Notre-Dame Cathedral in Paris.
...
Lamaze told CNA in an interview that in addition to one religious building disappearing every two weeks -- by demolition, transformation, destruction by fire, or collapse -- two-thirds of fires in religious buildings are due to arson.

“Although Catholic monuments are still ahead, one mosque is erected every 15 days in France, while one Christian building is destroyed at the same pace,” Lamaze said. “It creates a tipping point on the territory that should be taken into account.”"

A lot of those 'accidental' fires going around lately in France.
Such a drag that all the targeted vandalism seems to affect christian iconography and spare muslim.
Coincidences, coincidences...

So your evidence for vandalism rather than accident is what, exactly?

Vassenor wrote:

The Sovereign Realist State wrote:(not sure if already posted)
One Mosque Built, One Christian Monument Destroyed Every Two Weeks In "Modern France".

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news ... -two-weeks

"One religious building is disappearing in France every two weeks.

That is the conclusion of Edouard de Lamaze, president of the Observatoire du patrimoine religieux (Observatory of Religious Heritage) in Paris.

He is raising the alarm in the French media about the gradual disappearance of religious edifices in a country known as the “eldest daughter of the Church” because the Frankish King Clovis I embraced Catholicism in 496.

Lamaze’s appeal for increased awareness came after a fire destroyed the 16th-century Church of Saint-Pierre in Romilly-la-Puthenaye, Normandy, northern France. The fire, deemed accidental, took place on April 15, exactly two years after the blaze that devastated Notre-Dame Cathedral in Paris.
...
Lamaze told CNA in an interview that in addition to one religious building disappearing every two weeks -- by demolition, transformation, destruction by fire, or collapse -- two-thirds of fires in religious buildings are due to arson.

“Although Catholic monuments are still ahead, one mosque is erected every 15 days in France, while one Christian building is destroyed at the same pace,” Lamaze said. “It creates a tipping point on the territory that should be taken into account.”"

A lot of those 'accidental' fires going around lately in France.
Such a drag that all the targeted vandalism seems to affect christian iconography and spare muslim.
Coincidences, coincidences...

So your evidence for vandalism rather than accident is what, exactly?

The existence of Muslims in France, apparently.

Quite the reach OP. Couldn't possibly have to do with the fact that the majority of the churches that fall victim to vandalism are old and probably disused in depopulated mostly Christian and white parts of France rather than some sinister plot by the Moslems.

It's a real shame since there's actually an interesting angle about how modern neoliberal governments habitually underfund the preservation of heritage buildings but you decided to go with the most boring angle possible.

Vassenor wrote:

The Sovereign Realist State wrote:(not sure if already posted)
One Mosque Built, One Christian Monument Destroyed Every Two Weeks In "Modern France".

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news ... -two-weeks

"One religious building is disappearing in France every two weeks.

That is the conclusion of Edouard de Lamaze, president of the Observatoire du patrimoine religieux (Observatory of Religious Heritage) in Paris.

He is raising the alarm in the French media about the gradual disappearance of religious edifices in a country known as the “eldest daughter of the Church” because the Frankish King Clovis I embraced Catholicism in 496.

Lamaze’s appeal for increased awareness came after a fire destroyed the 16th-century Church of Saint-Pierre in Romilly-la-Puthenaye, Normandy, northern France. The fire, deemed accidental, took place on April 15, exactly two years after the blaze that devastated Notre-Dame Cathedral in Paris.
...
Lamaze told CNA in an interview that in addition to one religious building disappearing every two weeks -- by demolition, transformation, destruction by fire, or collapse -- two-thirds of fires in religious buildings are due to arson.

“Although Catholic monuments are still ahead, one mosque is erected every 15 days in France, while one Christian building is destroyed at the same pace,” Lamaze said. “It creates a tipping point on the territory that should be taken into account.”"

A lot of those 'accidental' fires going around lately in France.
Such a drag that all the targeted vandalism seems to affect christian iconography and spare muslim.
Coincidences, coincidences...

So your evidence for vandalism rather than accident is what, exactly?

Well the recent hijab and halal meat bans haven't been helpful for Muslim- Christan relations

Sussy amog us imposter wrote:

Vassenor wrote:
So your evidence for vandalism rather than accident is what, exactly?

yo you gay?

What does that have to do with anything?

It's very odd how the actual organization this guy works for, the Observatoire du Patrimoine Religieux does not actually have any analysis to back up this claim

In fact, searching their site for the word "mosquée" (mosque in french) doesn't come up with anyything more recent than 2013, and many of those don't even deal with France.

Hm
I wonder where this data came from

Nilokeras wrote:Quite the reach OP. Couldn't possibly have to do with the fact that the majority of the churches that fall victim to vandalism are old and probably disused in depopulated mostly Christian and white parts of France rather than some sinister plot by the Moslems.

It's a real shame since there's actually an interesting angle about how modern neoliberal governments habitually underfund the preservation of heritage buildings but you decided to go with the most boring angle possible.

But what about the weird foreigners!? They're so strange and different! Surely they must be up to something?

Kowani wrote:It's very odd how the actual organization this guy works for, the Observatoire du Patrimoine Religieux does not actually have any analysis to back up this claim

In fact, searching their site for the word "mosquée" (mosque in french) doesn't come up with anyything more recent than 2013, and many of those don't even deal with France.

Hm
I wonder where this data came from

I can tell you where it smells like it came from if you like...

Lady Victory wrote:

Nilokeras wrote:Quite the reach OP. Couldn't possibly have to do with the fact that the majority of the churches that fall victim to vandalism are old and probably disused in depopulated mostly Christian and white parts of France rather than some sinister plot by the Moslems.

It's a real shame since there's actually an interesting angle about how modern neoliberal governments habitually underfund the preservation of heritage buildings but you decided to go with the most boring angle possible.

But what about the weird foreigners!? They're so strange and different! Surely they must be up to something?

Why be intellectual and sensible when I can pander to unoriginal, false dichotomy conspiracy theories!

Nilokeras wrote:Quite the reach OP. Couldn't possibly have to do with the fact that the majority of the churches that fall victim to vandalism are old and probably disused in depopulated mostly Christian and white parts of France rather than some sinister plot by the Moslems.

It's a real shame since there's actually an interesting angle about how modern neoliberal governments habitually underfund the preservation of heritage buildings but you decided to go with the most boring angle possible.

Ironically, that was in the OP's article
they just didn't choose to show us that bit

Apart from the growing hostility to which they are subject, these religious sites are also suffering from deep negligence on the part of public authorities.

This state of affairs is partly explained by the fact that, by virtue of the 1905 law on the Separation of the Churches and the State, municipalities became the owners of France’s religious buildings. In many cases, they have been unable to meet the costs of maintaining the sites.

“These buildings have not been maintained for over a century, and they have never been subject to restoration work or protection measures against theft or fire,” Lamaze said.

He explained that only 15,000 Catholic sites are officially protected as historical monuments, while the other 30,000 buildings are practically left to decay.[...] He continued: “Fires are also sharply increasing because buildings are more and more dilapidated, and this negligence also attracts a lot of thefts of paintings, statues, or gold chalices...”

Kowani wrote:

Nilokeras wrote:Quite the reach OP. Couldn't possibly have to do with the fact that the majority of the churches that fall victim to vandalism are old and probably disused in depopulated mostly Christian and white parts of France rather than some sinister plot by the Moslems.

It's a real shame since there's actually an interesting angle about how modern neoliberal governments habitually underfund the preservation of heritage buildings but you decided to go with the most boring angle possible.

Ironically, that was in the OP's article
they just didn't choose to show us that bit

Apart from the growing hostility to which they are subject, these religious sites are also suffering from deep negligence on the part of public authorities.

This state of affairs is partly explained by the fact that, by virtue of the 1905 law on the Separation of the Churches and the State, municipalities became the owners of France’s religious buildings. In many cases, they have been unable to meet the costs of maintaining the sites.

“These buildings have not been maintained for over a century, and they have never been subject to restoration work or protection measures against theft or fire,” Lamaze said.

He explained that only 15,000 Catholic sites are officially protected as historical monuments, while the other 30,000 buildings are practically left to decay.[...] He continued: “Fires are also sharply increasing because buildings are more and more dilapidated, and this negligence also attracts a lot of thefts of paintings, statues, or gold chalices...”

The 5head quantum muslim plot of allowing Catholic sites to go unattended and without maintenance for over 100 years so they catch fire.

I see no problem in that.

interesting fake-sounding-statement, but more importantly, how many guillotines are built and palaces vandalized in modern france?

even if this was true, certainly there are many more churches than mosques in france? title seems misleading.

Kowani wrote:

Nilokeras wrote:Quite the reach OP. Couldn't possibly have to do with the fact that the majority of the churches that fall victim to vandalism are old and probably disused in depopulated mostly Christian and white parts of France rather than some sinister plot by the Moslems.

It's a real shame since there's actually an interesting angle about how modern neoliberal governments habitually underfund the preservation of heritage buildings but you decided to go with the most boring angle possible.

Ironically, that was in the OP's article
they just didn't choose to show us that bit

Apart from the growing hostility to which they are subject, these religious sites are also suffering from deep negligence on the part of public authorities.

This state of affairs is partly explained by the fact that, by virtue of the 1905 law on the Separation of the Churches and the State, municipalities became the owners of France’s religious buildings. In many cases, they have been unable to meet the costs of maintaining the sites.

“These buildings have not been maintained for over a century, and they have never been subject to restoration work or protection measures against theft or fire,” Lamaze said.

He explained that only 15,000 Catholic sites are officially protected as historical monuments, while the other 30,000 buildings are practically left to decay.[...] He continued: “Fires are also sharply increasing because buildings are more and more dilapidated, and this negligence also attracts a lot of thefts of paintings, statues, or gold chalices...”

Ah something actually interesting. let's talk about this instead

After the Notre Dame fire the French state was under renewed pressure to increase the amount of funding provided to municipalities to maintain the many heritage buildings they inherited, and they decided to do it in peak neoliberal manner: [url=https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/31/french-landmarks-to-be-saved-with-funds-from-heritage-scratchcards through selling specialty 'heritage' branded lottery tickets.[/url]

This is a shameful and terrifying statistic.

Call me back when the sacré cœur is on the list, so I can do a little jig.

Vassenor wrote:

The Sovereign Realist State wrote:(not sure if already posted)
One Mosque Built, One Christian Monument Destroyed Every Two Weeks In "Modern France".

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news ... -two-weeks

"One religious building is disappearing in France every two weeks.

That is the conclusion of Edouard de Lamaze, president of the Observatoire du patrimoine religieux (Observatory of Religious Heritage) in Paris.

He is raising the alarm in the French media about the gradual disappearance of religious edifices in a country known as the “eldest daughter of the Church” because the Frankish King Clovis I embraced Catholicism in 496.

Lamaze’s appeal for increased awareness came after a fire destroyed the 16th-century Church of Saint-Pierre in Romilly-la-Puthenaye, Normandy, northern France. The fire, deemed accidental, took place on April 15, exactly two years after the blaze that devastated Notre-Dame Cathedral in Paris.
...
Lamaze told CNA in an interview that in addition to one religious building disappearing every two weeks -- by demolition, transformation, destruction by fire, or collapse -- two-thirds of fires in religious buildings are due to arson.

“Although Catholic monuments are still ahead, one mosque is erected every 15 days in France, while one Christian building is destroyed at the same pace,” Lamaze said. “It creates a tipping point on the territory that should be taken into account.”"

A lot of those 'accidental' fires going around lately in France.
Such a drag that all the targeted vandalism seems to affect christian iconography and spare muslim.
Coincidences, coincidences...

So your evidence for vandalism rather than accident is what, exactly?

That was in the article that you quoted: two-thirds of fires in religious buildings are due to arson

Unless, of course, you can prove how arson can be accidental Vass.

Kowani wrote:It's very odd how the actual organization this guy works for, the Observatoire du Patrimoine Religieux does not actually have any analysis to back up this claim

In fact, searching their site for the word "mosquée" (mosque in french) doesn't come up with anyything more recent than 2013, and many of those don't even deal with France.

Hm
I wonder where this data came from

You're not the only one.

Lady Victory wrote:

Kowani wrote:It's very odd how the actual organization this guy works for, the Observatoire du Patrimoine Religieux does not actually have any analysis to back up this claim

In fact, searching their site for the word "mosquée" (mosque in french) doesn't come up with anyything more recent than 2013, and many of those don't even deal with France.

Hm
I wonder where this data came from

I can tell you where it smells like it came from if you like...

I still can't get over the "every two weeks" claim, can you use your sense of smell to back it up? That claim seems oddly specific, almost olfactory.

Wink Wonk We Like Stonks wrote:interesting fake-sounding-statement, but more importantly, how many guillotines are built and palaces vandalized in modern france?

even if this was true, certainly there are many more churches than mosques in france? title seems misleading.

Can we not give the French those ideas?

Wink Wonk We Like Stonks wrote:interesting fake-sounding-statement, but more importantly, how many guillotines are built and palaces vandalized in modern france?

even if this was true, certainly there are many more churches than mosques in france? title seems misleading.

Actually, France abolished the death penalty 40 years ago, and of course the government cares much more for non-religious historical sites.

Kowani wrote:It's very odd how the actual organization this guy works for, the Observatoire du Patrimoine Religieux does not actually have any analysis to back up this claim

In fact, searching their site for the word "mosquée" (mosque in french) doesn't come up with anyything more recent than 2013, and many of those don't even deal with France.

Hm
I wonder where this data came from

Hors de leur culs, sans aucun doute.

The OP knows a mosque just got burned down, right?