Afghan Conflict: Zelenskyy, NRF Attend Danish Summit

[Nociav]

You went from using its British namesake as proof it's reliable to now admitting that it has nothing to do with the actual Independent but it still isn't biased. Let's continue.

It being owned by the Saudis had nothing to do with anything I said. I used it as proof that you pulling out the British Independent as reliable doesn't apply here.

Now, then. The NRF bias of IndyPersian is obvious. Routinely posting things that the NRF spokesmen say and from an NRF standpoint. To add the final nail in the coffin, it's editor-in-chief is a literal NRFer. From defending Saleh's corruption, to telling Afghans to pray for an NRF victory, to retweeting this tweet from an NRF account alleging genocide.

If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and is seen in the company of other ducks, is it not a duck?

None of this wasn't already public knowledge. People paying attention to Afghanistan have known IndyPersian's bias for a while now. Either your deliberately spreading fake news or the stars have aligned to deprive you of this common knowledge.

Aight, gonna delve into this.

Bro the Arab News article & the Guardian article outline something you either didn’t realize or chose not to mention.

The whole reason people were concerned about the Independent Persian was that they feared pro-Saudi propaganda wouldn’t be blocked.

But two people approached by the Independent to apply for a job overseeing the Persian language site – aimed at Iranian readers – said they walked away after failing to receive enough assurances about the site’s editorial independence from the Saudi state, given that Saudi Arabia is locked in proxy war with Iran across the Middle East...
“When I asked whether the consultant editor would be empowered to kill a story that did not meet the Independent’s editorial standards, I was told that it was not yet clear whether the consultant editor would have that authority. It was pretty clear that the Independent’s editorial control would be nominal.”

But as the Guardian & Arab News both affirm, the Independent soon said this

As we made clear at the time the partnership was announced, the foreign language sites will be owned and operated by SRMG, and all editorial practices and output will conform to the standards, codes and ethos of the Independent.

As for the claims about “genocide”, that’s because many believe that Taliban killings of Tajik and Hazara civilians and The evictions of hundreds of Hazara families to amount to genocidal intent.

So you admit that it is in fact pro-NRF biased? I don't see you disputing this.

[Insaanistan]

Aight, gonna delve into this.

Bro the Arab News article & the Guardian article outline something you either didn’t realize or chose not to mention.

The whole reason people were concerned about the Independent Persian was that they feared pro-Saudi propaganda wouldn’t be blocked.

But as the Guardian & Arab News both affirm, the Independent soon said this


As for the claims about “genocide”, that’s because many believe that Taliban killings of Tajik and Hazara civilians and The evictions of hundreds of Hazara families to amount to genocidal intent.

So you admit that it is in fact pro-NRF biased? I don't see you disputing this.

I quite literally explicitly said in my first post on the issue of the Independent Persian that it is in fact pro-NRF.

[Nociav]

So you admit that it is in fact pro-NRF biased? I don't see you disputing this.

I quite literally explicitly said in my first post on the issue of the Independent Persian that it is in fact pro-NRF.

> Is pro-NRF
> Maintains it is reliable

Surely you jest.

[Insaanistan]

I quite literally explicitly said in my first post on the issue of the Independent Persian that it is in fact pro-NRF.

> Is pro-NRF
> Maintains it is reliable

Surely you jest.

Do you seriously not understand how a source can have a bias but still not be wholly unreliable, or is it that sources that have a bias towards someone you don’t like must be wrong?

[Insaanistan]

Int’l Community, UN Mull Over Whether to Recognize & Give Afghan UN Seat to Taliban or NRF or to Remain Recognizing the Previous Afghan Govt

[Nociav]

> Is pro-NRF
> Maintains it is reliable

Surely you jest.

Do you seriously not understand how a source can have a bias but still not be wholly unreliable, or is it that sources that have a bias towards someone you don’t like must be wrong?

"I am a war reporter of X. I take the side of Y. I am against Z."

Wow, a very reliable source. Let's fill in the blanks.

"I am a war reporter of the Angolan civil war. I take the side of the Soviet Union. I am against America."
"I am a war reporter of the Iran-Iraq war. I take the side of Iran. I am against Iraq."

Perhaps the most colorful example anyone can give:

"I am a war reporter of WW2. I take the side of Germany. I am against France."

This is elementary. Journalists aren't supposed to take sides. When they do, taking them seriously is a ridiculous idea.

[A White Africa]

Int’l Community, UN Mull Over Whether to Recognize & Give Afghan UN Seat to Taliban or NRF or to Remain Recognizing the Previous Afghan Govt

If I were Faiq, I would recognize Saleh's claim to the presidency and thus the NRF as the government-in-exile. Otherwise he's literally just some dude. Sure, the last legitimately appointed dude, but with no extant power base.

[Sungoldy-China]

Int’l Community, UN Mull Over Whether to Recognize & Give Afghan UN Seat to Taliban or NRF or to Remain Recognizing the Previous Afghan Govt

If I were Faiq, I would recognize Saleh's claim to the presidency and thus the NRF as the government-in-exile. Otherwise he's literally just some dude. Sure, the last legitimately appointed dude, but with no extant power base.

Depends on what the UN needs to do in Afghanistan，
There is currently no faction in Afghanistan capable of securing the UN mandate，
Suggest UN keep watching until the boiling water cools down.

It doesn't matter which faction represents Afghanistan at UN after all.
International forces still have to go to the local area to discuss their own interests with the corresponding factions.

[Nociav]

Biden splits 7 billion Afghan reserves in two. Gives half to humanitarian groups, other half to 9/11 families.

In other words: Afghanistan gets kneecaped for an attack that didn't involve any Afghans.

[Rusozak]

Biden splits 7 billion Afghan reserves in two. Gives half to humanitarian groups, other half to 9/11 families.

In other words: Afghanistan gets kneecaped for an attack that didn't involve any Afghans.

But the Taliban did shelter and is still allied with to this day the people that did do it.

[Nociav]

Biden splits 7 billion Afghan reserves in two. Gives half to humanitarian groups, other half to 9/11 families.

In other words: Afghanistan gets kneecaped for an attack that didn't involve any Afghans.

But the Taliban did shelter and is still allied with to this day the people that did do it.

That doesn't justify crippling the entire country for the rest of the decade.

[Rusozak]

But the Taliban did shelter and is still allied with to this day the people that did do it.

That doesn't justify crippling the entire country for the rest of the decade.

Nor does it justify releasing the reserves into the hands of terrorists just because they conquered the country.

[Nociav]

That doesn't justify crippling the entire country for the rest of the decade.

Nor does it justify releasing the reserves into the hands of terrorists just because they conquered the country.

Slick deflection. I'm criticising Biden's decision. Your off arguing against a point I haven't made.

[Insaanistan]

Gustavsson: Aid for Afghanistan Should be Distributed Via the NRF, the end of the NRF Would be Catastrophic

[Rusozak]

Nor does it justify releasing the reserves into the hands of terrorists just because they conquered the country.

Slick deflection. I'm criticising Biden's decision. Your off arguing against a point I haven't made.

It's implied, no? The options are basically return it to Taliban-controlled Afghanistan, repurpose it, or keep it frozen with the hopes the Taliban won't be in power forever. And we already know you're against options 2 & 3.

[Fahran]

I wrote down my thoughts, did some research and re-reading, finished writing, and then decided "nah, not worth it".

That's your decision and I respect it. I've stepped out of debates in the past for similar reasons. I pray it serves to improve your mental health and deepn your contemplations.

The inevitable wails and shrieks of "Taliban sympathizer", "terrorist supporter", or even "genocidal maniac", just aren't worth an internet argument.

Fair, though you might want to consider why those are responses to your arguments. Especially on the genocidal maniac thing.

I'll stick to criticising the NRF. Low hanging fruit but one that doesn't come bundled with biting personal attacks.

It's odd to criticze an entity that, while enjoying moral support from liberals, has no genuine power beyond its ability to wage a low-level insurgency from the mountains surrounding Panjshir. The Taliban wield actual political power and, as a rule, they have done so rather poorly - to the detriment of Afghans.

[Nociav]

Slick deflection. I'm criticising Biden's decision. Your off arguing against a point I haven't made.

It's implied, no? The options are basically return it to Taliban-controlled Afghanistan, repurpose it, or keep it frozen with the hopes the Taliban won't be in power forever. And we already know you're against options 2 & 3.

I've never said "Afghanistan had nothing to do with 9/11 therefore release the frozen assets". The context here is different.

Unrelated: What makes me even more furious is that NRFers are apathetic at best about this. Then again, what should have I expected from a group only interested in stuffing its pockets full of cash.

[Sungoldy-China]

No wonder America needs democracy,

There are so many idiots, if you don't use democracy , you can't find enough liars to collect money.

[Fahran]

No wonder America needs democracy,

There are so many idiots, if you don't use democracy , you can't find enough liars to collect money.

One benefit of democracy is that leaders can, at least theoretically, be held to account at regular intervals, though that's largely dependent on a political community being comprised of virtuous, prudent, and lion-hearted citizens. I wouldn't go quite so far as to refer to my fellow countrymen, or the people of any other country for that matter, as idiots. The majority are probably of average intelligence, and motivated by concerns that are sensible to them. That said, culture and standards matter a great deal more than we often acknowledge and liberalism has often of late eroded both.

[Fahran]

Unrelated: What makes me even more furious is that NRFers are apathetic at best about this. Then again, what should have I expected from a group only interested in stuffing its pockets full of cash.

I imagine NRFers are comparatively pleased with recognition and funds being withheld from their political enemies.

[Nociav]

Unrelated: What makes me even more furious is that NRFers are apathetic at best about this. Then again, what should have I expected from a group only interested in stuffing its pockets full of cash.

I imagine NRFers are comparatively pleased with recognition and funds being withheld from their political enemies.

More than that. They're using Biden's state sanctioned theft as a weapon.

[Fahran]

More than that. They're using Biden's state sanctioned theft as a weapon.

I wouldn't mind if Biden sent people to court and took the money as reparations. Really, I can't say I'll twist myself into knots over it not going into stabilizing the Taliban's rule. They remain political enemies to the United States, and the Afghan economy will continue to nose-dive either way given 42% of it evaporated over night and foreign capital won't come into the country unless the Taliban cozies up to China somehow.

[Nociav]

More than that. They're using Biden's state sanctioned theft as a weapon.

I wouldn't mind if Biden sent people to court and took the money as reparations. Really, I can't say I'll twist myself into knots over it not going into stabilizing the Taliban's rule. They remain political enemies to the United States, and the Afghan economy will continue to nose-dive either way given 42% of it evaporated over night and foreign capital won't come into the country unless the Taliban cozies up to China somehow.

I will never understand how people can be so unsympathetic towards Afghanistan's suffering. "We must not let the Taliban get even a slight material or immaterial benefit in any shape or form". The same logic that justified sanctions that killed half a million Iraqis. Completely inhumane. This money belongs to Afghanistan and its people. Not a single Afghan hijacked a plane on 9/11 but 40 million of them have to suffer because of it.

[Insaanistan]

I wouldn't mind if Biden sent people to court and took the money as reparations. Really, I can't say I'll twist myself into knots over it not going into stabilizing the Taliban's rule. They remain political enemies to the United States, and the Afghan economy will continue to nose-dive either way given 42% of it evaporated over night and foreign capital won't come into the country unless the Taliban cozies up to China somehow.

I will never understand how people can be so unsympathetic towards Afghanistan's suffering. "We must not let the Taliban get even a slight material or immaterial benefit in any shape or form". The same logic that justified sanctions that killed half a million Iraqis. Completely inhumane. This money belongs to Afghanistan and its people. Not a single Afghan hijacked a plane on 9/11 but 40 million of them have to suffer because of it.

Indeed, the war in Afghanistan as wrong, the suffering of the people unwarranted.

Do not mistake “Do not give recognition to the Taliban” for “F*ck the Afghan people”: I quite literally made a post not to long ago about how we need to not forget that Afghanistan is quite literally starving.

But there are alternatives to giving the Taliban everything they want. I don’t know about you, but I have a particular aversion to legitimizing terrorist groups.

We can understand the US was wrong without rewarding people simply for being against the US. The Taliban are not simply vigilantes, they’re terrorists, who quite frankly have had a great deal of difficulty getting the global community & most of the Afghan population to recognize them, the latter being especially against them due to the fact they’re still largely associated with Pakistan (or with the United States: I recall an incident of NRF fighters capturing a Talib in Afghanistan who was from Pakistan who when they questioned him said “I came to Afghanistan to fight America”, prompting the NRF members to laugh & reply “America is in Islamabad”) & largely either grew up in a world without Taliban rule & only knew them as the terrorists who blow themselves & civilians up & kill the nation’s soldiers, or are old enough to remember Taliban rule & how terrible it was.

The Taliban haven’t changed, they’ve just learned how to use the internet & how to lie more.

[Insaanistan]

I wouldn't mind if Biden sent people to court and took the money as reparations. Really, I can't say I'll twist myself into knots over it not going into stabilizing the Taliban's rule. They remain political enemies to the United States, and the Afghan economy will continue to nose-dive either way given 42% of it evaporated over night and foreign capital won't come into the country unless the Taliban cozies up to China somehow.

I will never understand how people can be so unsympathetic towards Afghanistan's suffering. "We must not let the Taliban get even a slight material or immaterial benefit in any shape or form". The same logic that justified sanctions that killed half a million Iraqis. Completely inhumane. This money belongs to Afghanistan and its people. Not a single Afghan hijacked a plane on 9/11 but 40 million of them have to suffer because of it.

Also, this is something we definitely need to talk about more. For example, at my school, most of the white students are under the impression Iraq and/or Afghanistan attacked us on 9/11. When I informed some of them it was in fact al-Qaeda & most of the perps came from Saudi Arabia, which is a US ally, they refused to believe me.

Then again, many of them also believe Russia is still a Communist country & massacring the Native Americans & forcing Christianity on them and African slaves was necessary.