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Afghanistan Conflict: Afghans Answering Massoud’s Call

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Latorik
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Postby Latorik » Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:24 pm

Chess Reloaded wrote:

The article cites anonymous witnesses and says it's indicative of widescale slaughter which only isn't documented because the Taliban cut off mobile phone service. They shut off all mobile service in the area. That's horrifying. So horrifying it should be read three or five times.

How about in Kandahar where they kidnapped Nazar Mohammad and executed him for poking fun at taliban leaders

He was a stand up comedian

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Chess Reloaded
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Postby Chess Reloaded » Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:29 pm

Latorik wrote:
Chess Reloaded wrote:The article cites anonymous witnesses and says it's indicative of widescale slaughter which only isn't documented because the Taliban cut off mobile phone service. They shut off all mobile service in the area. That's horrifying. So horrifying it should be read three or five times.

How about in Kandahar where they kidnapped Nazar Mohammad and executed him for poking fun at taliban leaders

He was a stand up comedian

He was a regime police (who were always targeted) was probably the main reason but I think we're drifting from the original point now. It's not my job to argue the Taliban are the good guys. It's just a question of if Ghani and the French in Algeria were worse

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Diarcesia
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Postby Diarcesia » Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:31 pm

Chess Reloaded wrote:
Latorik wrote:How about in Kandahar where they kidnapped Nazar Mohammad and executed him for poking fun at taliban leaders

He was a stand up comedian

He was a regime police (who were always targeted) was probably the main reason but I think we're drifting from the original point now. It's not my job to argue the Taliban are the good guys. It's just a question of if Ghani and the French in Algeria were worse

You said they were worse. I'm curious what made you think that.

About Ghani, I read the anecdotes about police sexually abusing children and the US looking the other way because it'll look bad in the international community.

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Latorik
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Postby Latorik » Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:32 pm

Chess Reloaded wrote:
Latorik wrote:How about in Kandahar where they kidnapped Nazar Mohammad and executed him for poking fun at taliban leaders

He was a stand up comedian

He was a regime police (who were always targeted) was probably the main reason but I think we're drifting from the original point now. It's not my job to argue the Taliban are the good guys. It's just a question of if Ghani and the French in Algeria were worse

You made the claim that they dont massacre villages anymore and that they're 'tamer'

And what does it matter? All three are kind of evil as shit

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Fahran
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Postby Fahran » Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:59 pm

Chess Reloaded wrote:It IS mandatory in his opinion if there is a fitna. That is pretty well defined by scholars. If you are unsure what their definition or idea of it is, for God's sake just stop and accept you don't know what you're talking about

I know what fitna means literally, but I'm questioning what precisely constitutes creating or inviting fitna in a modern-day context. Because, again, I think you're clandestinely massaging the most extreme interpretation possible out of existing precedents and opinions without a lot of substantiation or justification. Especially given that a lot of Hanafi scholars do not presently hold this view. Is it reasonable to expect a normal woman's face to create struggle or strife in a normal man's heart?

Chess Reloaded wrote:Blood being drained from the meat isn't enough to make it Kosher or halal. You should show some shame, I am completely shocked at you, you just went on with your nonsense as if you are impervious to truth. That article just said KFC was kosher in Israel for years and only lately have they ceased to be.

I'm aware. I'm intimately familiar with the laws governing kosher slaughter since I do observe them. You seem to be under the mistaken impression that only the strictest set of laws is ever acceptable or applicable when that's really not the case. Certainly, you do not shy away from honoring and fulfilling the law and do not reject the law for comfort. But you can get by just fine without going to the extremes. With regard to KFC, they expressly forbid franchises from claiming religious certifications - despite that some can and have done so. I imagine in Israel this means that they're going with the strictest possible interpretation of kosher - which requires a shochet and a bunch of other requirements that aren't, strictly speaking, necessary to meet the standards of kosher outside of the most frum communities. The meat is not from a treif animal. The animal is probably not treated inhumanely or fed on meat products. The animal is killed with a single blow and is probably (in the US) not stunned. The major veins are removed. The blood is removed. It's possible an error occurred, but exceedingly unlikely. You're doing your due diligence if you buy most meat in the US or Europe so long as the animal isn't treif or from a factory farm.
Last edited by Fahran on Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Fahran » Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:00 pm

Diarcesia wrote:You said they were worse. I'm curious what made you think that.

About Ghani, I read the anecdotes about police sexually abusing children and the US looking the other way because it'll look bad in the international community.

Given the Taliban solution was to murder the children who were abused to stamp out bacha bazi, I'm not certain they were the "morally just" option. And Ghani wasn't ever directly implicated.
This too shall pass.

I've been contemplating the next season of my life for a few weeks now. I could worry about unfulfilling good byes and paltry words for a hundred more weeks, but I suppose this will suffice. If your eyes should happen upon this signature, I pray that you will find love, happiness, and righteousness with each morning that you rise and each evening that you sleep, secure in the knowledge that you are deeply worthy of such wondrous and beauteous things.

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Chess Reloaded
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Postby Chess Reloaded » Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:11 pm

Fahran wrote:
Diarcesia wrote:You said they were worse. I'm curious what made you think that.

About Ghani, I read the anecdotes about police sexually abusing children and the US looking the other way because it'll look bad in the international community.

Given the Taliban solution was to murder the children who were abused to stamp out bacha bazi, I'm not certain they were the "morally just" option. And Ghani wasn't ever directly implicated.

No shame, no shame. Tsk, tsk

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Chess Reloaded
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Postby Chess Reloaded » Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:13 pm

If anyone is genuinely curious about the ideology of the Taliban and reason they came to power
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_Omar

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Washington Resistance Army
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:13 pm

Tbh when it comes to Ghani vs the Taliban it's really like asking if you want colon or liver cancer. They both suck no matter what.
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Postby Senkaku » Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:16 pm

Chess Reloaded wrote:If anyone is genuinely curious about the ideology of the Taliban and reason they came to power
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_Omar

Stop, they’ve already got goats and cheap heroin, I don’t need more convincing!
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Postby Nationalist England » Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:15 am

It’s frankly disgusting that people still Talibstan. They’re absolutely wretched.
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Postby Kubra » Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:20 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:Tbh when it comes to Ghani vs the Taliban it's really like asking if you want colon or liver cancer. They both suck no matter what.
bad comparison, colon cancer is obviously better.
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Postby Sungoldy-China » Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:22 am

The fact is that after the richest country has spent trillions of dollars in it,
Afghans still have to choose between different cancers.
every religious idea and every idea of God is unutterable vileness ... of the most dangerous kind, 'contagion' of the most abominable kind
"every religious idea and every idea of God is unutterable vileness ... of the most dangerous kind, 'contagion' of the most abominable kind. Millions of sins, filthy deeds, acts of violence and physical contagions ... are far less dangerous than the subtle, spiritual idea of God decked out in the smartest ideological costumes ..."

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Postby Kahvran » Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:27 am

Oh, the case of Afghanistan is one of the hardest case to answer with.

Taliban is just very repulsing, but the Afghan National Army is just a pure sad cringe to even look at. But I can't blame them either. Afghanis did not join Taliban out of nothing. The Coalition (US and their Allies) were known to be harsh against rural Afghanis, blaming innocent people and even murdering them at some point. So of course they are going on a revenge mission.

And no, I'm not supporting Taliban, they are a bunch of gangrenous, carcinogenic cucks. Nevertheless, with a dysfunctional central government like the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan, this is not a surprise. It is just sad. The Afghan people really can't catch their breath since the 70s.

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Arvenia
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Postby Arvenia » Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:37 am

Kahvran wrote:Oh, the case of Afghanistan is one of the hardest case to answer with.

Taliban is just very repulsing, but the Afghan National Army is just a pure sad cringe to even look at. But I can't blame them either. Afghanis did not join Taliban out of nothing. The Coalition (US and their Allies) were known to be harsh against rural Afghanis, blaming innocent people and even murdering them at some point. So of course they are going on a revenge mission.

And no, I'm not supporting Taliban, they are a bunch of gangrenous, carcinogenic cucks. Nevertheless, with a dysfunctional central government like the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan, this is not a surprise. It is just sad. The Afghan people really can't catch their breath since the 70s.

We may not know if the Taliban is going to embrace advanced technology in order to catch up with other countries and become more powerful.
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Postby Insaanistan » Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:39 am

Kahvran wrote:Oh, the case of Afghanistan is one of the hardest case to answer with.

Taliban is just very repulsing, but the Afghan National Army is just a pure sad cringe to even look at. But I can't blame them either. Afghanis did not join Taliban out of nothing. The Coalition (US and their Allies) were known to be harsh against rural Afghanis, blaming innocent people and even murdering them at some point. So of course they are going on a revenge mission.

And no, I'm not supporting Taliban, they are a bunch of gangrenous, carcinogenic cucks. Nevertheless, with a dysfunctional central government like the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan, this is not a surprise. It is just sad. The Afghan people really can't catch their breath since the 70s.

This is kinda true, one of the reasons why in his last speech, Ahmad Massoud basically said that he was extending forgiveness to all who joined the Taliban under the belief the Taliban were fighting the “imperialist West” (specifically the US) and that he was inviting them to join the Resistance to make amends for their misjudgment.
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Christian Confederation
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Postby Christian Confederation » Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:59 am

Jeriga wrote:
Christian Confederation wrote:You must be the gentleman I've heard so much about

I know that in the Christian faith, you're basically told that no one is beyond redemption through christ, that the lord will find his own and all, but please don't try on nazis. You just get pulled into arguments that legitimize their position in their minds.

If Derral Davis can deradicalize the KKK no Reson I shouldn't try with this guy
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Postby The Jamesian Republic » Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:54 am

Insaanistan wrote:
Kahvran wrote:Oh, the case of Afghanistan is one of the hardest case to answer with.

Taliban is just very repulsing, but the Afghan National Army is just a pure sad cringe to even look at. But I can't blame them either. Afghanis did not join Taliban out of nothing. The Coalition (US and their Allies) were known to be harsh against rural Afghanis, blaming innocent people and even murdering them at some point. So of course they are going on a revenge mission.

And no, I'm not supporting Taliban, they are a bunch of gangrenous, carcinogenic cucks. Nevertheless, with a dysfunctional central government like the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan, this is not a surprise. It is just sad. The Afghan people really can't catch their breath since the 70s.

This is kinda true, one of the reasons why in his last speech, Ahmad Massoud basically said that he was extending forgiveness to all who joined the Taliban under the belief the Taliban were fighting the “imperialist West” (specifically the US) and that he was inviting them to join the Resistance to make amends for their misjudgment.



Why do I feel like this will backfire?
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Postby Kowani » Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:22 pm

The splintering continues

A major row broke out between leaders of the Taliban over the make-up of the group’s new government in Afghanistan last week, BBC reported.

The argument between the group’s co-founder Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar and a Cabinet member happened at the presidential palace, the report said. There have been unconfirmed reports of disagreements within the Taliban’s leadership since Baradar disappeared from public view in recent days.

One Taliban source told BBC Pashto that Baradar and Khalil ur-Rahman Haqqani—the minister for refugees and a prominent figure within the militant Haqqani network—had exchanged strong words, as their followers brawled with each other nearby. The Taliban sources told the BBC that Baradar had left Kabul and travelled to the city of Kandahar following the row.

A senior Taliban member based in Qatar and a person connected to those involved also confirmed that an argument had taken place late last week, the report said. The sources said the argument had broken out because Baradar, the new deputy prime minister, was unhappy about the structure of their interim government.

It has been said that the row stemmed from divisions over who in the Taliban should take credit for their victory in Afghanistan. Baradar reportedly believes that the emphasis should be placed on diplomacy carried out by people like him, while members of the Haqqani group - which is run by one of the most senior Taliban figures - and their backers say it was achieved through fighting.

Meanwhile, the powerful Haqqani network is associated with some of the most violent attacks that have occurred in Afghanistan against Afghan forces and their Western allies in recent years. The group is designated by the US as a terrorist organisation. Its leader, Sirajuddin Haqqani, is the interior minister in the new government.

Rumours about a fallout have been spreading since late last week, when Baradar - one of the best-known faces of the Taliban - disappeared from public view. There was speculation on social media that he might have died. Sources told the BBC that Mr Baradar was expected to return to Kabul and might appear on camera to deny that any argument had happened.
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Postby Christian Confederation » Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:27 pm

Kowani wrote:The splintering continues

A major row broke out between leaders of the Taliban over the make-up of the group’s new government in Afghanistan last week, BBC reported.

The argument between the group’s co-founder Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar and a Cabinet member happened at the presidential palace, the report said. There have been unconfirmed reports of disagreements within the Taliban’s leadership since Baradar disappeared from public view in recent days.

One Taliban source told BBC Pashto that Baradar and Khalil ur-Rahman Haqqani—the minister for refugees and a prominent figure within the militant Haqqani network—had exchanged strong words, as their followers brawled with each other nearby. The Taliban sources told the BBC that Baradar had left Kabul and travelled to the city of Kandahar following the row.

A senior Taliban member based in Qatar and a person connected to those involved also confirmed that an argument had taken place late last week, the report said. The sources said the argument had broken out because Baradar, the new deputy prime minister, was unhappy about the structure of their interim government.

It has been said that the row stemmed from divisions over who in the Taliban should take credit for their victory in Afghanistan. Baradar reportedly believes that the emphasis should be placed on diplomacy carried out by people like him, while members of the Haqqani group - which is run by one of the most senior Taliban figures - and their backers say it was achieved through fighting.

Meanwhile, the powerful Haqqani network is associated with some of the most violent attacks that have occurred in Afghanistan against Afghan forces and their Western allies in recent years. The group is designated by the US as a terrorist organisation. Its leader, Sirajuddin Haqqani, is the interior minister in the new government.

Rumours about a fallout have been spreading since late last week, when Baradar - one of the best-known faces of the Taliban - disappeared from public view. There was speculation on social media that he might have died. Sources told the BBC that Mr Baradar was expected to return to Kabul and might appear on camera to deny that any argument had happened.

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Postby Fahran » Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:45 pm

Chess Reloaded wrote:No shame, no shame. Tsk, tsk

I feel as though even a cursory bit of research would corroborrate what I've said here. Culprits, including both the victims and the perpetrators, could face execution for participating in bacha bazi, and the younger men and boys were in the position of having lesser social status and being more vulnerable. So they're probably a good deal more likely to face these penalties.

Beyond that, there's strong evidence that the Taliban continued to practice various forms of pederasty among themselves despite having made the practice criminal and taboo. This is, in all probability, a side effect of severely limiting access to women. As well as the often bizaree conception Pashtuns have regarding homosexuality, namely that only the victim or passive participant is gay.

Hence stories like this. You're bold to call others shameless when you're often, more or less, lying through your teeth on issues like this, the views of the Taliban and other Muslims on women, and the occurrence of atrocities against various groups. Not to mention the lecture you tried to give me on kosher laws.
Last edited by Fahran on Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
This too shall pass.

I've been contemplating the next season of my life for a few weeks now. I could worry about unfulfilling good byes and paltry words for a hundred more weeks, but I suppose this will suffice. If your eyes should happen upon this signature, I pray that you will find love, happiness, and righteousness with each morning that you rise and each evening that you sleep, secure in the knowledge that you are deeply worthy of such wondrous and beauteous things.

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Miternet
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Postby Miternet » Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:47 pm

Paddy O Fernature wrote:
Old Tyrannia wrote:I generally assume that debates on NationStates, at least the ones that I take seriously, are aimed towards influencing the view of any third-party observers reading the exchange rather than the person actually being debated against. The latter is generally not open to changing their position no matter how the argument may go.


Well said, and I agree with you. Which is sad because the number of closed minds on NS these days seems to be ever increasing.


I'm more than happy to close my mind against Nazis.

Duvniask wrote:You're misunderstanding something here. Another user suggests we do "everything in our power" to deradicalize a him... which is fucking dumb. I don't know about you, but I can think of more productive things to do, even within the confines of NSG, than doing EVERYTHING in my power to convince Nazis or fascists.


Agreed, you are well within your right to move along and not choose to debate with said person if you so choose to do so which is the part of the beauty that is honest debate.


Just like how I'm free to inform any Nazi reading this that they are not welcome on this site and that if every last one of them were to throw themselves into the sea, the world would be a much better place.

Duvniask wrote:And don't tell me debating normal people is equivalent to throwing one's lot in with debating a Nazi. Nazism is the death knell of any sort of rational discussion or good faith for that matter; it is anathema to all the things you're trying to extol the virtues of in your post. The most you can get out of it is self-clarification, amusement and the hope that any third party watching gets turned off by their bile - it's simply not worth it trying to convince the guy as an end in itself.


Your opinion has been noted.


As has your sympathy for Nazis.


Miternet wrote:I think Nazis don't meet most people's standards of approval but if you're happy to have Nazis here...


So long as people are civil and stay within site rules, I'm personally happy to have just about anyone here, as I've stated multiple times. While I can't speak for everyone, I'm pretty sure most people would agree with that statement.


Nazis are inherently uncivil. Their ideology calls for mass murder of 'lesser races' and the establishment of ethnostates. I think most people would disagree with that even if you're not one of them.

Miternet wrote:Or maybe the Nazis should leave.


Why? Again, if someone is truly not bothering anyone besides just "existing" and are being civil, then they have just as much of a right to be here as anyone.


A civil Nazi is still a Nazi.

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Fahran
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Postby Fahran » Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:00 pm

Sungoldy-China wrote:The fact is that after the richest country has spent trillions of dollars in it,
Afghans still have to choose between different cancers.

Given the political culture and material circumstances, I doubt there was ever going to be a low-effort, wonderful solution.
This too shall pass.

I've been contemplating the next season of my life for a few weeks now. I could worry about unfulfilling good byes and paltry words for a hundred more weeks, but I suppose this will suffice. If your eyes should happen upon this signature, I pray that you will find love, happiness, and righteousness with each morning that you rise and each evening that you sleep, secure in the knowledge that you are deeply worthy of such wondrous and beauteous things.

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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:18 pm

Sex is great. But have you tried data visualizations of partisan spatial segregation?
Hard truth: your homeowner parents and family members organizing to fight new apartments and keep their cities and suburbs exclusive is responsible for exorbitant housing costs, not "Zillow or Blackrock buying up all the homes"
Updating Trackers! How Congress votes, what Americans believe, and world leader approvals
Headline of the day: Switzerland votes to legalize gay marriage in national referendum (64.1%- 35.9%)

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Insaanistan
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Postby Insaanistan » Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:30 pm


I’m tempted to wish for someone to tell the Taliban to just print more money and see what happens.
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