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Afghanistan Conflict: Afghans Answering Massoud’s Call

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Latorik
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Founded: Nov 20, 2020
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Postby Latorik » Wed May 05, 2021 6:08 am

Just-An-Illusion wrote:
Orostan wrote:They didn't plan 9/11 and even offered to hand bin laden over to the USA. If you want to talk about a country with connections to Al-Qaeda, let's talk about Saudi Arabia.


I know that Saudi Arabia had connections to Al-Qaeda, so no need to discuss that. Do you mind showing me a source that said the Taliban were willing to hand over Bin Laden?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/ ... terrorism5


I think this is what he's talking about

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Risottia
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Postby Risottia » Wed May 05, 2021 6:11 am

Just-An-Illusion wrote:
Orostan wrote:They didn't plan 9/11 and even offered to hand bin laden over to the USA. If you want to talk about a country with connections to Al-Qaeda, let's talk about Saudi Arabia.


I know that Saudi Arabia had connections to Al-Qaeda, so no need to discuss that. Do you mind showing me a source that said the Taliban were willing to hand over Bin Laden?


They weren't outright, while Pakistan, their liege, was more willing to do so. The story of the threats, requests, and replies is very long.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_St ... 01_attacks
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Just-An-Illusion
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Postby Just-An-Illusion » Wed May 05, 2021 6:14 am

Orostan wrote:
Just-An-Illusion wrote:
I know that Saudi Arabia had connections to Al-Qaeda, so no need to discuss that. Do you mind showing me a source that said the Taliban were willing to hand over Bin Laden?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 43208.html


Thanks
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The Dodo Republic
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Postby The Dodo Republic » Wed May 05, 2021 6:15 am

These people have no brain-cells. At LEAST keep around 1000 troops still there so the government dosnt completely fall apart. We all know that sometime in the near future we are just gonna get back in it anyways.... Im for withdrawlment but not getting rid of everyone there... :meh:

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The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp
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Postby The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp » Wed May 05, 2021 6:23 am

I don't really think leaveing Afghanistan would be the best idea. The US massively fucked up nation building in Afghanistan and Iraq. Staying keeps the nation on life support.

There really isn't a good option here.

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Insaanistan
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Postby Insaanistan » Wed May 05, 2021 6:23 am

Keep in mind, the Taliban can easily be classified as Pashtun Nationalist (using “Islam” as a unifying factor), hence why Pakistan supported them in the first.
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Risottia
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Postby Risottia » Wed May 05, 2021 6:24 am

The Dodo Republic wrote:These people have no brain-cells. At LEAST keep around 1000 troops still there so the government dosnt completely fall apart.

Because 1000 soldiers are going to prop up a government in a country 652000 km2 wide. Err.

If one would really wanted to keep up Afghanistan at a minimum level, they'd have to remove the Talibans from power. Which means preventing Pakistan from resupplying the Talibans. Which means the very serious risk of going toe-to-toe with a nuclear-weapons country and a key US ally in the area.

So, not gonna happen.
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The Dodo Republic
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Postby The Dodo Republic » Wed May 05, 2021 6:26 am

Risottia wrote:
The Dodo Republic wrote:These people have no brain-cells. At LEAST keep around 1000 troops still there so the government dosnt completely fall apart.

Because 1000 soldiers are going to prop up a government in a country 652000 km2 wide. Err.

If one would really wanted to keep up Afghanistan at a minimum level, they'd have to remove the Talibans from power. Which means preventing Pakistan from resupplying the Talibans. Which means the very serious risk of going toe-to-toe with a nuclear-weapons country and a key US ally in the area.

So, not gonna happen.

maybe 1000 is too little. But yes your right, its just a massive shtshow that has too play out. There really isnt anything we can do anymore then to ether get out, or too continue this charade.

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Lady Victory
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Postby Lady Victory » Wed May 05, 2021 6:38 am

We apparently haven't learned from the Fall of Saigon.

If there are any Afghans who aren't interested in life under the Taliban (again) they should get out of dodge while they still can.
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Jutlop
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Postby Jutlop » Wed May 05, 2021 6:45 am

Lady Victory wrote:We apparently haven't learned from the Fall of Saigon.

If there are any Afghans who aren't interested in life under the Taliban (again) they should get out of dodge while they still can.

the problem is no one is accepting them as refugees

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Ethel mermania
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Postby Ethel mermania » Wed May 05, 2021 7:19 am

Jutlop wrote:
Lady Victory wrote:We apparently haven't learned from the Fall of Saigon.

If there are any Afghans who aren't interested in life under the Taliban (again) they should get out of dodge while they still can.

the problem is no one is accepting them as refugees

I hope they at least let the folks and the families thereof, who worked with the Americans come here
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Insaanistan
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Postby Insaanistan » Wed May 05, 2021 7:22 am

Ethel mermania wrote:
Jutlop wrote:the problem is no one is accepting them as refugees

I hope they at least let the folks and the families thereof, who worked with the Americans come here

I wouldn’t count on it.
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Jutlop
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Postby Jutlop » Wed May 05, 2021 7:25 am

Ethel mermania wrote:
Jutlop wrote:the problem is no one is accepting them as refugees

I hope they at least let the folks and the families thereof, who worked with the Americans come here

sorry, but the us abandoned countless afghanis who helped them

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The New Chinese States
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Postby The New Chinese States » Wed May 05, 2021 7:29 am

Coicantrost Terbi wrote:That Afghan government will probably last at most 2 years after the coalition leaves.


You give it two months? I think you’re overly optimistic there. In my more cynical/pessimistic moments I give it five minutes after we’re gone that the Taliban runs up their flag in Kabul.
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Page
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Postby Page » Wed May 05, 2021 7:39 am

Just-An-Illusion wrote:Wait the US is withdrawing on 9/11? Something tells me the families who lost loved ones during the attack won't be happy about the withdrawal date.


I know if I lost a loved one to a terrorist attack, I'd be super pissed off about the government ending a war that used my dead loved ones as pawns to enrich the military industrial complex. I'd be especially mad about the withdrawal of US support for the warlords with child sex slaves!

How else are you going to avenge the victims of 9/11 if not by giving billions of dollars to arms manufacturers and child molesting warlords?
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Just-An-Illusion
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Postby Just-An-Illusion » Wed May 05, 2021 7:45 am

Page wrote:
Just-An-Illusion wrote:Wait the US is withdrawing on 9/11? Something tells me the families who lost loved ones during the attack won't be happy about the withdrawal date.


I know if I lost a loved one to a terrorist attack, I'd be super pissed off about the government ending a war that used my dead loved ones as pawns to enrich the military industrial complex. I'd be especially mad about the withdrawal of US support for the warlords with child sex slaves!

How else are you going to avenge the victims of 9/11 if not by giving billions of dollars to arms manufacturers and child molesting warlords?


You do know that I support the US withdrawing from the region right?
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Ethel mermania
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Postby Ethel mermania » Wed May 05, 2021 8:08 am

Insaanistan wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:I hope they at least let the folks and the families thereof, who worked with the Americans come here

I wouldn’t count on it.

Thats 2017, I hope with the leaving it gets changed. Otherwise those folks are as good as dead.
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Jutlop
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Postby Jutlop » Wed May 05, 2021 8:14 am

Ethel mermania wrote:

Thats 2017, I hope with the leaving it gets changed. Otherwise those folks are as good as dead.

they are sadly, what makes you think they will change their ways
Last edited by Jutlop on Wed May 05, 2021 8:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Ethel mermania
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Postby Ethel mermania » Wed May 05, 2021 8:21 am

Jutlop wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:Thats 2017, I hope with the leaving it gets changed. Otherwise those folks are as good as dead.

they are sadly, what makes you think they will change their ways

Maybe i was delirious

We are teaching foreigners not to help the US when we need their support. We couldn't do more to alienate these people if we tried.
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Jutlop
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Postby Jutlop » Wed May 05, 2021 9:09 am

Ethel mermania wrote:
Jutlop wrote:they are sadly, what makes you think they will change their ways

Maybe i was delirious

We are teaching foreigners not to help the US when we need their support. We couldn't do more to alienate these people if we tried.


I see your point, but did the us deserve this support

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Heaven Hieghts
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Postby Heaven Hieghts » Wed May 05, 2021 9:26 am

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:I don't really think leaveing Afghanistan would be the best idea. The US massively fucked up nation building in Afghanistan and Iraq. Staying keeps the nation on life support.

There really isn't a good option here.

Agreed, same thing with withdrawing from Rojava. All of the instances of US withdrawal I can think of have led to disaster and I really fear for Afghanistan in this case.

That said, this deficit needed to be addressed like yesterday and obviously an ongoing military presence across Western Asia isn't conducive to reigning that in.
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Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum
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Postby Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum » Wed May 05, 2021 9:34 am

Immortan Khan wrote:
Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:America will not retreat and will continue to sell weapons to terrorist groups.The United States should be removed from NATO.

What?
Nato etc. of those sitting at the discussion table with terrorists. I say that he has no job in institutions. The United States will not be completely withdrawn from Afghanistan. Republicans or democrats always do the same foreign policy. The American military is supposedly pro-democracy, all other nations are terrorists. The world is bigger than America, they should be reminded of this. Fighting the Taliban means fighting the arms trade policy of the United States. For a peaceful world, the United States must stop producing weapons altogether. Choose life, not money from weapons.
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The Two Jerseys
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Postby The Two Jerseys » Wed May 05, 2021 10:04 am

An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:
Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:America will not retreat and will continue to sell weapons to terrorist groups.The United States should be removed from NATO.


There is no mechanism to remove a country from NATO.

And if there was, by now NATO would consist solely of the US, UK, and Poland since everyone else would've already been expelled for not meeting the military spending requirement, and I know those two won't vote us out...
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Ethel mermania
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Postby Ethel mermania » Wed May 05, 2021 10:08 am

Jutlop wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:Maybe i was delirious

We are teaching foreigners not to help the US when we need their support. We couldn't do more to alienate these people if we tried.


I see your point, but did the us deserve this support

Doesn't matter we got it, and are abandoning those who gave it to us. We are idiots.
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Palcania
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Trade offer

Postby Palcania » Wed May 05, 2021 10:11 am

Trader offer:

You get multiple terrorist attacks and destabilized regions.

I get Afghanistan and I can commit war crimes whenever I want.

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