NATION

PASSWORD

Afghan Conflict: Russian Political Leader Meets With Massoud

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Advertisement

Remove ads

User avatar
Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44958
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:20 pm

American History and Historiography; Political and Labour History, Urbanism, Political Parties, Congressional Procedure, Elections.

Servant of The Democracy since 1896.


Historian, of sorts.

Effortposts can be found here!

User avatar
Insaanistan
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13784
Founded: Nov 18, 2019
Democratic Socialists

Postby Insaanistan » Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:54 pm


As I’ve seen claims of either of them fleeing to Tajikistan every five minutes for the past ever since the resistance started, I’ll view these claims as possible but unlikely.
السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركته-Peace be with you!
BLM - Free Palestine - Abolish Kafala - Boycott Israel - Trump lost
Anti: DAESH & friends, IR Govt, Saudi Govt, Israeli Govt, China, anti-semitism, homophobia, racism, sexism, Fascism, Communism, Islamophobia.

Hello brother (or sister),
Unapologetic Muslim American
I’m neither a terrorist nor Iranian.
Ace-ish (Hate it when my friends are right!)
TG for questions on Islam!

User avatar
Fahran
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 22562
Founded: Nov 13, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Fahran » Tue Sep 21, 2021 4:18 pm

Page wrote:The world's superpower and a trillion dollars never came close to exterminating the Taliban, much less exterminating the influence of a nuclear great power.

We didn't fight the Taliban like we fought the IJA/IJN. We didn't even fight the Taliban like we fought the commies during the Cold War.
Last edited by Fahran on Tue Sep 21, 2021 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Christian Confederation
Senator
 
Posts: 4331
Founded: Dec 12, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Christian Confederation » Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:31 pm


The UN allows Communist China, Iran, and North Korea on the Human Rights Council. The representative of the Islamic Emirate would probably be welcomed with Thunderous Applause
Founder of the moderate alliance
Open to new members, and embassy's.
My telagram box is always open for productive conversation.
IRL political views center right/ right.

User avatar
Lady Victory
Minister
 
Posts: 2444
Founded: Apr 27, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Lady Victory » Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:37 pm

Christian Confederation wrote:
Lady Victory wrote:
The UN should say no tbh.

The UN allows Communist China, Iran, and North Korea on the Human Rights Council. The representative of the Islamic Emirate would probably be welcomed with Thunderous Applause


Unironically calling China "Communist" is a great way to discredit yourself fyi.

They're a hyper-capitalist dystopia lmao. About as Communist as a stock exchange.
Last edited by Lady Victory on Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
☆ American Left-wing Nationalist and Christian ☆
"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right."
"Ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country."
"Fascism is not to be debated, it is to be destroyed!"


She/Her - Call me Jenny or LV

User avatar
Evil Wolf
Minister
 
Posts: 2412
Founded: Apr 28, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Evil Wolf » Tue Sep 21, 2021 7:40 pm

Chess Reloaded wrote:How many incidents of America bombing civilians did CBS report on? What happened in Kabul happened regularly in the countryside but never got covered. Why did they not cover so many Muslims killed by Marine bullets after the ISIS attack, as verified by doctors and eyewitnesses? Because they have an ideological stake


"Doctors" didn't verify shit. There have been hazy reports of a shoot out following the suicide bombing ever since the attack occurred. Initial claims were that the Marines just randomly panicked after the bombing and started blindly shooting into the crowd for no reason, which seems weird and not up to snuff. Then there were follow up reports stating that Daesh-K did a combination attack of a suicide/mass shooting, which, yeah, that pretty much follows their MO.

We will never fully know because the Taliban isn't exactly letting neutral third parties do an in-depth investigation, likely because it will be uncovered that the Taliban let a Daesh kill team through their security net without so much as a pat down.

Christian Confederation wrote:The UN allows Communist China, Iran, and North Korea on the Human Rights Council. The representative of the Islamic Emirate would probably be welcomed with Thunderous Applause


A reminder that the UN took nearly 40 years to recognize the PRC as China and that tiny little ROC held that Security Council seat for decades.
It's ok! You can trust me! I've been Commended!

Kryozerkia wrote:In the good old days raiding was illegal
Crazy Girl wrote:Invading was never illegal
[violet] wrote:There is supposed to be an invasion game.

Mallorea and Riva should be a Game Moderator Game Administrator.

User avatar
HISPIDA
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9012
Founded: Jun 21, 2021
Anarchy

Postby HISPIDA » Tue Sep 21, 2021 7:51 pm

Page wrote:
Fahran wrote:It's not. That said, it is absolutely our job to protect our interests and those of our allies. If the Taliban begin cuddling up to al-Qaeda, IS-K, and similar groups again, I would absolutely support crushing them and plugging the power vacum with the Northern Alliance and a restored monarch. And allowing them to do whatever needed to be done to exterminate the Taliban and Pakistani influence once and for all.


The world's superpower and a trillion dollars never came close to exterminating the Taliban, much less exterminating the influence of a nuclear great power.

but... american policy did help exterminate the influence of a nuclear great power

hint, hint: the USSR

it wasn't the sole reason but it was an incredibly important one

also, pakistan as a great power lmao
FUCK ISRAEL FUCK THE GENOCIDE FREE PALESTINE (they/them)
"Genocide, after all, is an exercise in community building." - Philip Gourevitch
NO WAR BUT CLASS WAR
Victory Day: February 23, 2022

User avatar
Northern Socialist Council Republics
Senator
 
Posts: 3763
Founded: Dec 13, 2020
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Northern Socialist Council Republics » Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:04 pm

The UN absolutely should recognise the Taliban government, although getting the US, Britain, and France to agree to that might be a little bit of a tall order.

The Taliban de facto controls a country and that should be recognised with a seat at the table of international diplomacy. Whether anyone wants the Taliban there is not relevant to the question that right now, nobody is willing to put up the military force to get rid of them.
Call me "Russ" if you're referring to me the out-of-character poster or "NSRS" if you're referring to me the in-character nation.
Previously on Plzen. NationStates-er since 2014.

Social-democrat and hardline secularist.
Come roleplay with us. We have cookies.

User avatar
Evil Wolf
Minister
 
Posts: 2412
Founded: Apr 28, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Evil Wolf » Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:14 pm

Northern Socialist Council Republics wrote:The Taliban de facto controls a country and that should be recognised with a seat at the table of international diplomacy. Whether anyone wants the Taliban there is not relevant to the question that right now, nobody is willing to put up the military force to get rid of them.


I don't think the UN should recognize a barely functional terror-state that none of it's own member states, not even Pakistan, have yet recognized as a county, especially while giving Kosovo and the Republic of China the cold shoulder, both of which have far, far more recognition and legitimacy than the Taliban's hyper-partisan wanna-be fascist government.
Last edited by Evil Wolf on Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
It's ok! You can trust me! I've been Commended!

Kryozerkia wrote:In the good old days raiding was illegal
Crazy Girl wrote:Invading was never illegal
[violet] wrote:There is supposed to be an invasion game.

Mallorea and Riva should be a Game Moderator Game Administrator.

User avatar
Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44958
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:19 pm

American History and Historiography; Political and Labour History, Urbanism, Political Parties, Congressional Procedure, Elections.

Servant of The Democracy since 1896.


Historian, of sorts.

Effortposts can be found here!

User avatar
Evil Wolf
Minister
 
Posts: 2412
Founded: Apr 28, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Evil Wolf » Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:41 pm


From the Article:
He suggested Afghanistan could manage without that aid, saying the country had sufficient resources. “According to our inspection, Afghanistan is not a failed country, financially,” he said. “We have revenue, and if it is controlled and collected properly, it can solve our current problems.”


Heroin and ransom money doesn't count as a legitimate form of revenue, my guy.
It's ok! You can trust me! I've been Commended!

Kryozerkia wrote:In the good old days raiding was illegal
Crazy Girl wrote:Invading was never illegal
[violet] wrote:There is supposed to be an invasion game.

Mallorea and Riva should be a Game Moderator Game Administrator.

User avatar
Bears Armed
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 21482
Founded: Jun 01, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bears Armed » Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:53 am

Evil Wolf wrote:
He suggested Afghanistan could manage without that aid, saying the country had sufficient resources. “According to our inspection, Afghanistan is not a failed country, financially,” he said. “We have revenue, and if it is controlled and collected properly, it can solve our current problems.”


Heroin and ransom money doesn't count as a legitimate form of revenue, my guy.

Also, notice the "if"... :lol:
The Confrederated Clans (and other Confrederated Bodys) of the Free Bears of Bears Armed
(includes The Ursine NorthLands) Demonym = Bear[s]; adjective = ‘Urrsish’.
Population = just under 20 million. Economy = only Thriving. Average Life expectancy = c.60 years. If the nation is classified as 'Anarchy' there still is a [strictly limited] national government... and those aren't "biker gangs", they're traditional cross-Clan 'Warrior Societies', generally respected rather than feared.
Author of some GA Resolutions, via Bears Armed Mission; subject of an SC resolution.
Factbook. We have more than 70 MAPS. Visitors' Guide.
The IDU's WA Drafting Room is open to help you.
Author of issues #429, 712, 729, 934, 1120, 1152, 1474, 1521.

User avatar
The Alma Mater
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25619
Founded: May 23, 2004
Ex-Nation

Postby The Alma Mater » Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:39 am

Evil Wolf wrote:

From the Article:
He suggested Afghanistan could manage without that aid, saying the country had sufficient resources. “According to our inspection, Afghanistan is not a failed country, financially,” he said. “We have revenue, and if it is controlled and collected properly, it can solve our current problems.”


Heroin and ransom money doesn't count as a legitimate form of revenue, my guy.


Afghanistan has huge deposits of rare minerals advanced electronics, like your phone, need.
Getting an education was a bit like a communicable sexual disease.
It made you unsuitable for a lot of jobs and then you had the urge to pass it on.
- Terry Pratchett, Hogfather

User avatar
Chess Reloaded
Diplomat
 
Posts: 660
Founded: Sep 06, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Chess Reloaded » Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:46 am

The Alma Mater wrote:
Evil Wolf wrote:From the Article:


Heroin and ransom money doesn't count as a legitimate form of revenue, my guy.


Afghanistan has huge deposits of rare minerals advanced electronics, like your phone, need.

That's right but they need the development to take advantage of that. Very few countries are willing to provide that to the third world on equitable terms, they generally expect to eat it all while the locals eat dirt, except some corrupt puppets

User avatar
Diahon
Senator
 
Posts: 4575
Founded: Apr 01, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Diahon » Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:47 am

Chess Reloaded wrote:
The Alma Mater wrote:
Afghanistan has huge deposits of rare minerals advanced electronics, like your phone, need.

That's right but they need the development to take advantage of that. Very few countries are willing to provide that to the third world on equitable terms, they generally expect to eat it all while the locals eat dirt, except some corrupt puppets

no, they want the taliban to fuck off the face of the universe

User avatar
Chess Reloaded
Diplomat
 
Posts: 660
Founded: Sep 06, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Chess Reloaded » Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:02 am

Diahon wrote:
Chess Reloaded wrote:That's right but they need the development to take advantage of that. Very few countries are willing to provide that to the third world on equitable terms, they generally expect to eat it all while the locals eat dirt, except some corrupt puppets

no, they want the taliban to fuck off the face of the universe

Nah, many are just waiting for a more lucrative deal. China for example doesn't prefer the American puppet to the Taliban but they aren't interested in helping development unless they can have a very powerful hand there which the Taliban isn't allowing as of yet

User avatar
The Alma Mater
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25619
Founded: May 23, 2004
Ex-Nation

Postby The Alma Mater » Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:44 am

Chess Reloaded wrote:
The Alma Mater wrote:
Afghanistan has huge deposits of rare minerals advanced electronics, like your phone, need.

That's right but they need the development to take advantage of that. Very few countries are willing to provide that to the third world on equitable terms, they generally expect to eat it all while the locals eat dirt, except some corrupt puppets


Why would the Taliban have a problem with that scenario ? As long as they get rich and remain in power they are happy. That outsiders in farawayistan get even richer is not an issue.
Last edited by The Alma Mater on Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
Getting an education was a bit like a communicable sexual disease.
It made you unsuitable for a lot of jobs and then you had the urge to pass it on.
- Terry Pratchett, Hogfather

User avatar
Chess Reloaded
Diplomat
 
Posts: 660
Founded: Sep 06, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Chess Reloaded » Wed Sep 22, 2021 6:39 am

The Alma Mater wrote:
Chess Reloaded wrote:That's right but they need the development to take advantage of that. Very few countries are willing to provide that to the third world on equitable terms, they generally expect to eat it all while the locals eat dirt, except some corrupt puppets


Why would the Taliban have a problem with that scenario ? As long as they get rich and remain in power they are happy. That outsiders in farawayistan get even richer is not an issue.

Muhammad Omar refused an all-expense-paid hajj to Mecca from Saud because he thought it would be a disgrace to go be among the wealthy while his people starved, he opted to live in poverty his whole life. None of these fighters, 60,000 of them, was paid to fight. You should read My Life with the Taliban, written by a Guantanamo Bay inmate who got out after years on a prisoner exchange for a captured U.S. soldier, before presuming you understand the motives of the Taliban

User avatar
Insaanistan
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13784
Founded: Nov 18, 2019
Democratic Socialists

Postby Insaanistan » Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:00 am

السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركته-Peace be with you!
BLM - Free Palestine - Abolish Kafala - Boycott Israel - Trump lost
Anti: DAESH & friends, IR Govt, Saudi Govt, Israeli Govt, China, anti-semitism, homophobia, racism, sexism, Fascism, Communism, Islamophobia.

Hello brother (or sister),
Unapologetic Muslim American
I’m neither a terrorist nor Iranian.
Ace-ish (Hate it when my friends are right!)
TG for questions on Islam!

User avatar
Heloin
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26091
Founded: Mar 30, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Heloin » Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:10 am

Chess Reloaded wrote:
The Alma Mater wrote:
Why would the Taliban have a problem with that scenario ? As long as they get rich and remain in power they are happy. That outsiders in farawayistan get even richer is not an issue.

Muhammad Omar refused an all-expense-paid hajj to Mecca from Saud because he thought it would be a disgrace to go be among the wealthy while his people starved, he opted to live in poverty his whole life. None of these fighters, 60,000 of them, was paid to fight. You should read My Life with the Taliban, written by a Guantanamo Bay inmate who got out after years on a prisoner exchange for a captured U.S. soldier, before presuming you understand the motives of the Taliban

That the Taliban paid it’s soldiers on time unlike the Afghan National Army being a significant factor in why the ANA disintegrated is clearly lost on you.

User avatar
Resilient Acceleration
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1139
Founded: Sep 23, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Resilient Acceleration » Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:22 am

Fahran wrote:
Christian Confederation wrote:Because it's not America's Job to Forc the rest of the world to be democratic

It's not. That said, it is absolutely our job to protect our interests and those of our allies. If the Taliban begin cuddling up to al-Qaeda, IS-K, and similar groups again, I would absolutely support crushing them and plugging the power vacum with the Northern Alliance and a restored monarch. And allowing them to do whatever needed to be done to exterminate the Taliban and Pakistani influence once and for all.

Regime change = no. But what's the feasibility (and counterarguments) for limited wars? United States is extremely capable in long-range surgical operations of "bomb from far away and forget", such as the Reagan-era raids to Libya or the Qasem Suleimani assassination. There isn't really anything stopping the US from maintaining continuous drone or air presence aiming to continuously prevent the Bad Guys from gaining too much power. (Which I guess is similar to Israel's strategy against Hamas of accepting that they'll be there forever, and as such Israel only needs to regularly deflate their powers from time to time.) Peferably acting as a collosal support for local forces who comprises the bulk of the military operations, as shown in America's (and Russia's) strategy in how to deal with ISIS.
Last edited by Resilient Acceleration on Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

2033.12.21
 TLDR News | Exclusive: GLOBAL DRONE CRISIS! "Hyper-advanced" Chinese military AI design leaked online by unknown groups, Pres. Yang issues warning of "major outbreak of 3D-printed drone swarm terrorist attacks to US civilians and assets" | Secretary Pasca to expand surveillance on all financial activities through pattern recognition AI to curb the supply chain of QAnon and other domestic terror grassroots

A near-future scenario where transhumanist tech barons and their ruthless capitalism are trying to save the planet, emphasis on "try" | Resilient Accelerationism in a nutshell | OOC

User avatar
Gallia-
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25554
Founded: Oct 09, 2013
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Gallia- » Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:45 am

Lady Victory wrote:
Christian Confederation wrote:The UN allows Communist China, Iran, and North Korea on the Human Rights Council. The representative of the Islamic Emirate would probably be welcomed with Thunderous Applause


Unironically calling China "Communist" is a great way to discredit yourself fyi.

They're a hyper-capitalist dystopia lmao. About as Communist as a stock exchange.


They're in the state capitalist stage of the historical materialism.

The Alma Mater wrote:
Chess Reloaded wrote:That's right but they need the development to take advantage of that. Very few countries are willing to provide that to the third world on equitable terms, they generally expect to eat it all while the locals eat dirt, except some corrupt puppets


Why would the Taliban have a problem with that scenario ?


Because the Taliban isn't Ashraf Ghani. In the long run they will probably accept Chinese development of the lithium lodes in exchange for a more equitable share of profits to invest in things like rebuilding Helmand or some of the other more war-torn parts of the country.
Last edited by Gallia- on Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Insaanistan
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13784
Founded: Nov 18, 2019
Democratic Socialists

Postby Insaanistan » Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:50 am

Asked 5 Afghans, three different responses:

1. Ahmad Massoud didn’t leave Panjshir and is still in the valley
2. Ahmad Massoud left Panjshir 3 days ago for Tajikistan then came back (not on the 6th like the Intercept reported).
3. They don’t think he left, but if he did, he’ll be more useful outside the country than inside the valley.
السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركته-Peace be with you!
BLM - Free Palestine - Abolish Kafala - Boycott Israel - Trump lost
Anti: DAESH & friends, IR Govt, Saudi Govt, Israeli Govt, China, anti-semitism, homophobia, racism, sexism, Fascism, Communism, Islamophobia.

Hello brother (or sister),
Unapologetic Muslim American
I’m neither a terrorist nor Iranian.
Ace-ish (Hate it when my friends are right!)
TG for questions on Islam!

User avatar
Christian Confederation
Senator
 
Posts: 4331
Founded: Dec 12, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Christian Confederation » Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:18 am

Evil Wolf wrote:
Chess Reloaded wrote:How many incidents of America bombing civilians did CBS report on? What happened in Kabul happened regularly in the countryside but never got covered. Why did they not cover so many Muslims killed by Marine bullets after the ISIS attack, as verified by doctors and eyewitnesses? Because they have an ideological stake


"Doctors" didn't verify shit. There have been hazy reports of a shoot out following the suicide bombing ever since the attack occurred. Initial claims were that the Marines just randomly panicked after the bombing and started blindly shooting into the crowd for no reason, which seems weird and not up to snuff. Then there were follow up reports stating that Daesh-K did a combination attack of a suicide/mass shooting, which, yeah, that pretty much follows their MO.

We will never fully know because the Taliban isn't exactly letting neutral third parties do an in-depth investigation, likely because it will be uncovered that the Taliban let a Daesh kill team through their security net without so much as a pat down.

Christian Confederation wrote:The UN allows Communist China, Iran, and North Korea on the Human Rights Council. The representative of the Islamic Emirate would probably be welcomed with Thunderous Applause


A reminder that the UN took nearly 40 years to recognize the PRC as China and that tiny little ROC held that Security Council seat for decades.

Now we have a Genocidal Communist Regime on the Secretary council
Founder of the moderate alliance
Open to new members, and embassy's.
My telagram box is always open for productive conversation.
IRL political views center right/ right.

User avatar
Chess Reloaded
Diplomat
 
Posts: 660
Founded: Sep 06, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Chess Reloaded » Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:38 am

Heloin wrote:
Chess Reloaded wrote:Muhammad Omar refused an all-expense-paid hajj to Mecca from Saud because he thought it would be a disgrace to go be among the wealthy while his people starved, he opted to live in poverty his whole life. None of these fighters, 60,000 of them, was paid to fight. You should read My Life with the Taliban, written by a Guantanamo Bay inmate who got out after years on a prisoner exchange for a captured U.S. soldier, before presuming you understand the motives of the Taliban

That the Taliban paid it’s soldiers on time unlike the Afghan National Army being a significant factor in why the ANA disintegrated is clearly lost on you.

That's probably because it's bogus, the Taliban didn't give paychecks to its fighters by and large

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Neu California, Uiiop

Advertisement

Remove ads