You know the Klan still exists, right?
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by Insaanistan » Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:59 am
by Page » Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:58 am
Mostrov wrote:Page wrote:
If a government wants to criminalize a person's foreign travel, it should be on that government to provide the evidence of one's intentions. If I want to go to Kabul and they think I am a terrorist, then they can prove that I am a terrorist, it isn't on me to prove that I only went to Kabul for some innocuous reason like smoking pure Afghan opium.
This is completely impractical. A warrant would be required to access a person's communication, putting them under suspicion of committing a crime without having necessarily done so. Of course there may be situations where they could travel to a second country. It is also important for the dealing with people who may not necessarily committed a crime otherwise, or if they have yet with insufficient proof, and need to be monitored if they return. See: the ISIS brides. How would you legally deal with their situation?
by Insaanistan » Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:45 am
by Paddy O Fernature » Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:25 am
by Old Tyrannia » Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:30 am
Paddy O Fernature wrote:Duvniask wrote:Why the heck do you think people should give themselves up to de-radicalizing a stranger on the internet? I'd rather he just get the hell off of this site.
Going to play devils advocate for a second here... but In a round about way, that's kinda the point of a debate forum though, isn't it? Meet strangers on the internet, listen to their ideas and share your own in a mutual exchange of ideas and thoughts, and try to change peoples mindsets when they are blatantly in the wrong hopefully for the better.
by Saiwania » Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:35 am
Duvniask wrote:Why the heck do you think people should give themselves up to de-radicalizing a stranger on the internet? I'd rather he just get the hell off of this site.
by Duvniask » Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:00 am
Paddy O Fernature wrote:Duvniask wrote:Why the heck do you think people should give themselves up to de-radicalizing a stranger on the internet? I'd rather he just get the hell off of this site.
Going to play devils advocate for a second here... but In a round about way, that's kinda the point of a debate forum though, isn't it? Meet strangers on the internet, listen to their ideas and share your own in a mutual exchange of ideas and thoughts, and try to change peoples mindsets when they are blatantly in the wrong hopefully for the better.
by Christian Confederation » Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:47 am
Saiwania wrote:Duvniask wrote:Why the heck do you think people should give themselves up to de-radicalizing a stranger on the internet? I'd rather he just get the hell off of this site.
You're not removing me from this website, so let it go.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/13/asia/afg ... index.html
Afghan women proposing alternatives for what they should wear that still conforms to Afghan culture but is outside of the Taliban's dress code. Pictures included.
by Miternet » Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:48 pm
If this offends and upsets you that badly, then perhaps NS isn't for you.
by Fahran » Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:34 pm
Chess Reloaded wrote:That's interestingly exactly how the Meccans looked upon and treated the Muslims trying to emigrate to Medina
by Fahran » Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:38 pm
Mostrov wrote:How would you legally deal with their situation?
by Fahran » Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:39 pm
Saiwania wrote:You're not removing me from this website, so let it go.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/13/asia/afg ... index.html
Afghan women proposing alternatives for what they should wear that still conforms to Afghan culture but is outside of the Taliban's dress code. Pictures included.
by Chess Reloaded » Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:52 pm
Fahran wrote:
I... this phrasing is unfortunate...Saiwania wrote:You're not removing me from this website, so let it go.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/13/asia/afg ... index.html
Afghan women proposing alternatives for what they should wear that still conforms to Afghan culture but is outside of the Taliban's dress code. Pictures included.
This kinda emphasizes the point I made earlier. The black/blue niqab/burqa often associated with extremist Salafis and Deobandis isn't actually the traditional garment of Muslim women in most places, and has often been a recent introduction.
by Paddy O Fernature » Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:54 pm
Old Tyrannia wrote:Paddy O Fernature wrote:
Going to play devils advocate for a second here... but In a round about way, that's kinda the point of a debate forum though, isn't it? Meet strangers on the internet, listen to their ideas and share your own in a mutual exchange of ideas and thoughts, and try to change peoples mindsets when they are blatantly in the wrong hopefully for the better.
I generally assume that debates on NationStates, at least the ones that I take seriously, are aimed towards influencing the view of any third-party observers reading the exchange rather than the person actually being debated against. The latter is generally not open to changing their position no matter how the argument may go.
Duvniask wrote:Paddy O Fernature wrote:
Going to play devils advocate for a second here... but In a round about way, that's kinda the point of a debate forum though, isn't it? Meet strangers on the internet, listen to their ideas and share your own in a mutual exchange of ideas and thoughts, and try to change peoples mindsets when they are blatantly in the wrong hopefully for the better.
You're misunderstanding something here. Another user suggests we do "everything in our power" to deradicalize a him... which is fucking dumb. I don't know about you, but I can think of more productive things to do, even within the confines of NSG, than doing EVERYTHING in my power to convince Nazis or fascists.
Duvniask wrote:And don't tell me debating normal people is equivalent to throwing one's lot in with debating a Nazi. Nazism is the death knell of any sort of rational discussion or good faith for that matter; it is anathema to all the things you're trying to extol the virtues of in your post. The most you can get out of it is self-clarification, amusement and the hope that any third party watching gets turned off by their bile - it's simply not worth it trying to convince the guy as an end in itself.
Miternet wrote:I think Nazis don't meet most people's standards of approval but if you're happy to have Nazis here...
Miternet wrote:Or maybe the Nazis should leave.
by Chess Reloaded » Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:00 pm
by Diarcesia » Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:02 pm
Chess Reloaded wrote:French colonialst propaganda from their occupation of North Africa urging Muslim women to stop covering their faces
https://www.middleeasteye.net/sites/def ... lonial.jpg
It was a very brutal process what the French did there
by Jeriga » Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:03 pm
Christian Confederation wrote:Saiwania wrote:
You're not removing me from this website, so let it go.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/13/asia/afg ... index.html
Afghan women proposing alternatives for what they should wear that still conforms to Afghan culture but is outside of the Taliban's dress code. Pictures included.
You must be the gentleman I've heard so much about
by Fahran » Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:03 pm
Chess Reloaded wrote:Hmmm, Abu Hanifa, Imam Malik and Imam Ahmed all say covering the face is required. Imam Shafi'i says it's preferred.
by Chess Reloaded » Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:29 pm
Fahran wrote:Chess Reloaded wrote:Hmmm, Abu Hanifa, Imam Malik and Imam Ahmed all say covering the face is required. Imam Shafi'i says it's preferred.
That's actually not wholly accurate. The broad consensus of scholars, beginning with the Sahabah, seems to be that it is permissible to conceal one's face but that it is not necessarily obligatory to do so. The insistence that it is an obligation and that a woman errs in not doing so is, broadly speaking, the minority position in most schools of Islamic jurisprudence historically and today. Hence why even many Islamists do not demand the burqa or niqab be made an obligation. Hijab and modesty are sufficient.
In instances where a just government has abolished the practice, I'm inclined to wonder what the position of scholars would be given that it is not an obligation but heeding a just government is.
by The Two Jerseys » Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:26 pm
Chess Reloaded wrote:French colonialst propaganda from their occupation of North Africa urging Muslim women to stop covering their faces
https://www.middleeasteye.net/sites/def ... lonial.jpg
It was a very brutal process what the French did there
by Lady Victory » Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:29 pm
The Two Jerseys wrote:Chess Reloaded wrote:French colonialst propaganda from their occupation of North Africa urging Muslim women to stop covering their faces
https://www.middleeasteye.net/sites/def ... lonial.jpg
It was a very brutal process what the French did there
Wow, a poster.
Such brutality.
Much oppression.
by The Two Jerseys » Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:36 pm
by Diarcesia » Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:43 pm
The Two Jerseys wrote:Chess Reloaded wrote:French colonialst propaganda from their occupation of North Africa urging Muslim women to stop covering their faces
https://www.middleeasteye.net/sites/def ... lonial.jpg
It was a very brutal process what the French did there
Wow, a poster.
Such brutality.
Much oppression.
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