Christianity and mental illness

[Conserative Morality]

I am a catholic, do I count as christian or not?

Yeah, Catholics are usually count as 'Christian'.

[UnhealthyTruthseeker]

She won't listen to me because I am not a Christian, so I just don't know.

You can't reason with anyone who truly believes this.

[UnhealthyTruthseeker]

I'm a Christian and I know that mental illness is real. I'm pretty sure thats not taught anywhere that the devill created mentel illness.

Do you know of any examples in the Bible of someone being mentally ill?

Moses. Oh snap!

[Chumblywumbly]

Do you know of any examples in the Bible of someone being mentally ill?

There are a couple of passages in the Gospels, which perhaps your friend has read, that are perhaps examples of mental illness:

Mark 1:21-28 (New International Version)

²¹They went to Capernaum, and when the Sabbath came, Jesus went into the synagogue and began to teach. ²²The people were amazed at his teaching, because he taught them as one who had authority, not as the teachers of the law. ²³Just then a man in their synagogue who was possessed by an evil spirit cried out, ²⁴"What do you want with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are—the Holy One of God!"

²⁵"Be quiet!" said Jesus sternly. "Come out of him!" ²⁶The evil spirit shook the man violently and came out of him with a shriek.

²⁷The people were all so amazed that they asked each other, "What is this? A new teaching—and with authority! He even gives orders to evil spirits and they obey him." ²⁸News about him spread quickly over the whole region of Galilee.


Matthew 8:28-33 (New International Version)

²⁸When he arrived at the other side in the region of the Gadarenes, two demon-possessed men coming from the tombs met him. They were so violent that no one could pass that way. ²⁹"What do you want with us, Son of God?" they shouted. "Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?"

³⁰Some distance from them a large herd of pigs was feeding. ³¹The demons begged Jesus, "If you drive us out, send us into the herd of pigs."

³²He said to them, "Go!" So they came out and went into the pigs, and the whole herd rushed down the steep bank into the lake and died in the water. ³³Those tending the pigs ran off, went into the town and reported all this, including what had happened to the demon-possessed men.

[UnhealthyTruthseeker]

You guys are going about this the wrong way. It doesn't matter if she believes that the mental illness is real or the devil. That's irrelevant. What you need to do is convince her that, if she wants to please God, she has to beat the devil and stop him from tricking her. Since she's having trouble doing it on her own, she should get one of those little magic pills to assist her until she can handle it on her own (probably never, but getting her started is a good beginning).

Ergo, play into the beliefs - don't crush them. Playing into them works better. If you can convince her that God would want her to beat the Devil any way she can, and then convince her that the doctor can help her beat the devil, she gets to take the pill and still think whatever it is she wants to think.

Though this seems to be the only option available, isn't indulging her delusions arguably quite unhealthy as well?

[Ifreann]

I like this idea of making it seem like going to a doctor is what god would want. Might actually work. Might not be honest, but there you go.

I am a catholic, do I count as christian or not?

Catholics are christians, yes.

[Buffett and Colbert]

Since you alone talking to this person doesn't seem to be helping, you need to get help. Try to find a hospital, shelter, etc. in your area that could come and evaluate the person and possibly pick the person up. It may sound cruel, but it's for the person's own safety, and possibly others' too.

[Rolling Dead]

I am a catholic, do I count as christian or not?

Yeah. You count, you have the same basic beleifs that Christians have. Some beliefs differ though, like Purgatory.

Meh, my old History teacher would have raised a shitstorm if you said this in her class.


Dunno why though, guess she thinks only Protestants are Christians.

Has anyone mentioned Exorcist?

[Domminus]

You guys are going about this the wrong way. It doesn't matter if she believes that the mental illness is real or the devil. That's irrelevant. What you need to do is convince her that, if she wants to please God, she has to beat the devil and stop him from tricking her. Since she's having trouble doing it on her own, she should get one of those little magic pills to assist her until she can handle it on her own (probably never, but getting her started is a good beginning).

Ergo, play into the beliefs - don't crush them. Playing into them works better. If you can convince her that God would want her to beat the Devil any way she can, and then convince her that the doctor can help her beat the devil, she gets to take the pill and still think whatever it is she wants to think.

Though this seems to be the only option available, isn't indulging her delusions arguably quite unhealthy as well?

Is it more unhealthy than her continuing her wild bipolar swings when medication will help her?

[The Pumkin]

Hmmm. my mommy owner is both a licensed psychologist and a baptized christian. she says that the reason you don't hear about mental illness in the bible is because, so many years ago, the mental illness concept did not exist yet. they did refer however to evil spirits that would cause illness. the catholic church still sees possession as a cause of some types of so called mental illness. my mommy though thinks mental illness is a product of bum biology whose effects can be modified by modern day medications and psychological work. by the way, she thinks christianity can assist mental health because you are taught to take responsibility for your actions and you are taught to stop being your own manager, letting god lead you instead.

me on the other hand, i think tuna takes care of every ill.

[UnhealthyTruthseeker]

You guys are going about this the wrong way. It doesn't matter if she believes that the mental illness is real or the devil. That's irrelevant. What you need to do is convince her that, if she wants to please God, she has to beat the devil and stop him from tricking her. Since she's having trouble doing it on her own, she should get one of those little magic pills to assist her until she can handle it on her own (probably never, but getting her started is a good beginning).

Ergo, play into the beliefs - don't crush them. Playing into them works better. If you can convince her that God would want her to beat the Devil any way she can, and then convince her that the doctor can help her beat the devil, she gets to take the pill and still think whatever it is she wants to think.

Though this seems to be the only option available, isn't indulging her delusions arguably quite unhealthy as well?

Is it more unhealthy than her continuing her wild bipolar swings when medication will help her?

That's hard to say. In the short term, probably not. In the long term, what other dangerous bullshit do you think she'll come up with if TCT indulges her?

[UnhealthyTruthseeker]

Hmmm. my mommy owner is both a licensed psychologist and a baptized christian. she says that the reason you don't hear about mental illness in the bible is because, so many years ago, the mental illness concept did not exist yet. they did refer however to evil spirits that would cause illness. the catholic church still sees possession as a cause of some types of so called mental illness. my mommy though thinks mental illness is a product of bum biology whose effects can be modified by modern day medications and psychological work. by the way, she thinks christianity can assist mental health because you are taught to take responsibility for your actions and you are taught to stop being your own manager, letting god lead you instead.

me on the other hand, i think tuna takes care of every ill.

The Catholic church also only recently pardoned Galileo.

[Treznor]

What's that saying? You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. People are like that. Once they get used to believing instead of thinking it takes a lot of convincing to break them out of it. While this person is suffering, she's unlikely to listen to anything that isn't reinforced by the folks she goes for validation of her beliefs. That they are also probably the folks who taught her those beliefs is not a coincidence.

I think the key here is her substance abuse. She needs to get that treated, the faster the better. Professionals who deal with substance abuse are generally pretty good at using belief systems to reinforce the need to recover. They also tend to identify behaviors that support substance abuse and address them, so if you focus on that and downplay the rest of her problems, it should all come together in a neat package.

No guarantees, of course, but one battle at a time. She at least agrees on that one issue, so focus on it until she gets help for it. I'm confident the rest will fall into place, if she genuinely wants to get better.

[Domminus]

That's hard to say. In the short term, probably not. In the long term, what other dangerous bullshit do you think she'll come up with if TCT indulges her?

I don't see how indulging a little bit of falsehood in the short term can be all bad. After all, people believe in ghosts, mummies, aliens, galactic overlords, angels, demons, giant flying spaghetti monsters, and all sorts of things and still lead normal lives.

Besides, I think this is what they call a "slippery slope" fallacy. Just because he indulges one belief doesn't mean thousands more will pop up later.

[West Failure]

They might as well become a Scientologist with beliefs like that.

[UnhealthyTruthseeker]

That's hard to say. In the short term, probably not. In the long term, what other dangerous bullshit do you think she'll come up with if TCT indulges her?

I don't see how indulging a little bit of falsehood in the short term can be all bad. After all, people believe in ghosts, mummies, aliens, galactic overlords, angels, demons, giant flying spaghetti monsters, and all sorts of things and still lead normal lives.

Besides, I think this is what they call a "slippery slope" fallacy. Just because he indulges one belief doesn't mean thousands more will pop up later.

Look at the harm done throughout history for several of those beliefs you mentioned. There is a subtle difference between slippery slope and insightful speculation based on analogous cases in the past.

[Domminus]

That's hard to say. In the short term, probably not. In the long term, what other dangerous bullshit do you think she'll come up with if TCT indulges her?

I don't see how indulging a little bit of falsehood in the short term can be all bad. After all, people believe in ghosts, mummies, aliens, galactic overlords, angels, demons, giant flying spaghetti monsters, and all sorts of things and still lead normal lives.

Besides, I think this is what they call a "slippery slope" fallacy. Just because he indulges one belief doesn't mean thousands more will pop up later.

Look at the harm done throughout history for several of those beliefs you mentioned. There is a subtle difference between slippery slope and insightful speculation based on analogous cases in the past.

You think she's going to go on a crusade against the middle east?

[The Pumkin]

mommy says substance abuse almost always must be treated first since you can't tell what's going on while psychoactive substances are obscuring the picture.

[Farnhamia]

What's that saying? You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. People are like that. Once they get used to believing instead of thinking it takes a lot of convincing to break them out of it. While this person is suffering, she's unlikely to listen to anything that isn't reinforced by the folks she goes for validation of her beliefs. That they are also probably the folks who taught her those beliefs is not a coincidence.

I think the key here is her substance abuse. She needs to get that treated, the faster the better. Professionals who deal with substance abuse are generally pretty good at using belief systems to reinforce the need to recover. They also tend to identify behaviors that support substance abuse and address them, so if you focus on that and downplay the rest of her problems, it should all come together in a neat package.

No guarantees, of course, but one battle at a time. She at least agrees on that one issue, so focus on it until she gets help for it. I'm confident the rest will fall into place, if she genuinely wants to get better.

This is good advice.

I think the worst aspect of this is that Cat-Tribes outflanked by the other people who reinforce the idea of mental illness being from the Devil. Getting her detached from them would go a long way in helping, if possible.

[Ifreann]

They might as well become a Scientologist with beliefs like that.

I don't think many people can afford Scientology in the current economic climate.

[Ifreann]

Though this seems to be the only option available, isn't indulging her delusions arguably quite unhealthy as well?

Is it more unhealthy than her continuing her wild bipolar swings when medication will help her?

That's hard to say. In the short term, probably not. In the long term, what other dangerous bullshit do you think she'll come up with if TCT indulges her?

In the long term won't she be getting psychiatric or psychological treatment? That could nip any "Kill all of [Arbitrary Group X] because God said so" in the bud.

[UnhealthyTruthseeker]

You think she's going to go on a crusade against the middle east?

No, but look at all the shit being committed by delusional people. Look at abortion clinic bombings, suicide bombings, being pulled into pyramid schemes like $cientology, anti-science crusades, etc. Don't mention communism as an example of evil committed by non-delusional people, either. The communism that has shown up around the world is every bit as deluded and irrational as any fundamentalist belief system. I also never said that she WOULD commit atrocities, my point was that she was far more likely to embrace other dangerous ideas. She is at a great risk for embracing other irrational beliefs (the more irrational beliefs you hold, the more likely you are to embrace new irrationalities) which puts her at a larger risk than the general population for doing something stupid, dangerous, or perhaps even violent.

[The Plutonian Empire]

Forget it dude.

She's christian, and we all know that religious people will NEVER change their minds, no matter how hard we try.

[Domminus]

You think she's going to go on a crusade against the middle east?

No, but look at all the shit being committed by delusional people. Look at abortion clinic bombings, suicide bombings, being pulled into pyramid schemes like $cientology, anti-science crusades, etc. Don't mention communism as an example of evil committed by non-delusional people, either. The communism that has shown up around the world is every bit as deluded and irrational as any fundamentalist belief system. I also never said that she WOULD commit atrocities, my point was that she was far more likely to embrace other dangerous ideas. She is at a great risk for embracing other irrational beliefs (the more irrational beliefs you hold, the more likely you are to embrace new irrationalities) which puts her at a larger risk than the general population for doing something stupid, dangerous, or perhaps even violent.

Perhaps, but if he can get her in to get psychological help, even the little deception at the beginning should go by the wayside with therapy. In any case, she would be under a doctor's care and he should pick up on and dispel any further delusions.

[Wilgrove]

Maybe try to convience her that the pills are brand new communion wafers?