NationStates

I'm not sure whether Kaiserreich is that big. Granted, Hearts of Iron IV is definitely one of the more popular games out there with a very large community, with a big chance of being the most popular strategy game out there. When it comes to how big it is amongst alternative histories Kaiserreich probably is the setting with the largest active fanbase (although I'd say Man in the High Castle is the most well-known setting overall). One thing I have noticed though is that the HOI4 playerbase is on average pretty politically active or at the least keeping up to date with politics. That, mixed with Kaiserreich's decision to opt for a few alternative ideologies and "what-if" political movements helps people find out about some ideologies that haven't seen the light of day since the rise of fascism and the consolidation of communism as socialism's main radical branch.

I don't think it will have any big impact outside of the internet. The main two groups that could "benefit" from new attention are syndicalism (which is more than just a meme, but is very small outside of those few well-read working class activists in labour unions) and whatever happened to Huey Long's Democrat populism, and I think the latter is probably pretty dead by now as the Democratic Party is much more invested in social justice and economic liberalism while Huey Long's name is more invoked to justify any kind of policy within the borders of Louisiana. The other political movements that are present in Kaiserreich have already been popular amongst edgy strategy gamer kids before Kaiserreich became popular anyways, such as the rise of the more monarchical conservatism of the High Tories within the British Conservative Party's youth (albeit still incredibly small). We already have a few memes for those kind of people within the Victoria II playerbase...


Also, I definitely wouldn't want to live in the world of Kaiserreich:

- Most of "monarchist" Europe is run by practically a collection of dictatorships, satellite states and a few 'democracies' ran by a Prussian style military-bureaucratic administration
- The syndicalist nations have traded Stalinist state suppression for ideological zeal amongst a population very much ready to lynch everyone that doesn't agree with the most radical avant-garde view of syndicalism in 1936
- The US is a powderkeg
- Japan is the same failing democracy as it was in real life, and it probably is even worse now as Ludendorff's ideas of total war (which influenced the Japanese military a lot during their radicalisation) are now even more popular and justified amongst the army
- Russia (in the rework) is ran by rabid nationalists
- The Middle East is dominated by a very unstable modernising state which is at times on the brink of being ruled by nationalist Turks (which we know doesn't work out for minorities) while the rest of said state is being torn apart by ethnic and sectarian violence
- China doesn't go through Generalissimo Cheng's modernisation programs. One can say a lot about the Kuomintang, but at the least they helped alleviate the bad situation in the 1930s. Instead the world of Kaiserreich still has the Zhili (under the guise of a new Qing Empire) and Fengtian cliques fighting it out in northern China while the rest of the country is ran by drug-smuggling warlords like it was in the 1920s. Only Guangdong and Shanxi seem slightly better off and even then they would be faring slightly better in our 'timeline'
- The rest of the world remains roughly the same. However, that same rest of the world wasn't exactly the best place to live in in our 1936 anyways

Sajidi Arabia wrote:I'm not sure whether Kaiserreich is that big. Granted, Hearts of Iron IV is definitely one of the more popular games out there with a very large community, with a big chance of being the biggest strategy game out there. When it comes to how big it is amongst alternative histories Kaiserreich probably is the setting with the biggest active fanbase (although I'd say Man in the High Castle is the most well-known setting overall). One thing I have noticed though is that the HOI4 playerbase is on average pretty politically active or at the least keeping up to date with politics. That, mixed with Kaiserreich's decision to opt for a few alternative ideologies and "what-if" political movements helps people find out about some ideologies that haven't seen the light of day since the rise of fascism and the consolidation of communism as socialism's main radical branch.

I don't think it will have any big impact outside of the internet. The main two groups that could "benefit" from new attention are syndicalism (which is more than just a meme, but is very small outside of those few well-read working class activists in labour unions) and whatever happened to Huey Long's Democrat populism, and I think the latter is probably pretty dead by now as the Democratic Party is much more invested in social justice and economic liberalism while Huey Long's name is more invoked to justify any kind of policy within the borders of Louisiana. The other political movements that are present in Kaiserreich have already been popular amongst edgy strategy gamer kids before Kaiserreich became popular anyways, such as the rise of the more monarchical conservatism of the High Tories within the British Conservative Party's youth (albeit still incredibly small). We already have a few memes for those kind of people within the Victoria II playerbase...


Also, I definitely wouldn't want to live in the world of Kaiserreich:

- Most of "monarchist" Europe is run by practically a collection of dictatorships, satellite states and a few 'democracies' ran by a Prussian style military-bureaucratic administration
- The syndicalist nations have traded Stalinist state suppression for ideological zeal amongst a population very much ready to lynch everyone that doesn't agree with the most radical avant-garde view of syndicalism in 1936
- The US is a powderkeg
- Japan is the same failing democracy as it was in real life, and it probably is even worse now as Ludendorff's ideas of total war (which influenced the Japanese military a lot during their radicalisation) are now even more popular and justified amongst the army
- Russia (in the rework) is ran by rabid nationalists
- The Middle East is dominated by a very unstable modernising state which is at times on the brink of being ruled by nationalist Turks (which we know doesn't work out for minorities) while the rest of said state is being torn apart by ethnic and sectarian violence
- China doesn't go through Generalissimo Cheng's modernisation programs. One can say a lot about the Kuomintang, but at the least they helped alleviate the bad situation in the 1930s. Instead the world of Kaiserreich still has the Zhili (under the guise of a new Qing Empire) and Fengtian cliques fighting it out in northern China while the rest of the country is ran by drug-smuggling warlords like it was in the 1920s. Only Guangdong and Shanxi seem slightly better off and even then they would be faring slightly better in our 'timeline'
- The rest of the world remains roughly the same. However, that same rest of the world wasn't exactly the best place to live in in our 1936 anyways

Let's not forget South America is also likely to explode, as is Oceania

Something I've noticed for a few years is that really old labels (like national syndicalism) were revived around the time that Kaiserreich became popular, and you had more e-rightists than usual asserting that they're really some flavor of socialist and trying to reconcile their defense of militarism or imperialism with their newfound syndie status. Part of it might have to do with the inherent diversity of the period, instead of a titanic Manichean clash between Democracy and Fascism, you have all sorts of labels which are much more exciting and alt-hist scenarios such as France becoming Sorelian and invading Imperial Germany.

It's a nice escapism to be able to create my ideal Indochinese history with a strong Burma or Siam, but not something that I would make my real life politics. That would just be silly.

Sajidi Arabia wrote:I'm not sure whether Kaiserreich is that big. Granted, Hearts of Iron IV is definitely one of the more popular games out there with a very large community, with a big chance of being the most popular strategy game out there. When it comes to how big it is amongst alternative histories Kaiserreich probably is the setting with the largest active fanbase (although I'd say Man in the High Castle is the most well-known setting overall). One thing I have noticed though is that the HOI4 playerbase is on average pretty politically active or at the least keeping up to date with politics. That, mixed with Kaiserreich's decision to opt for a few alternative ideologies and "what-if" political movements helps people find out about some ideologies that haven't seen the light of day since the rise of fascism and the consolidation of communism as socialism's main radical branch.

I don't think it will have any big impact outside of the internet. The main two groups that could "benefit" from new attention are syndicalism (which is more than just a meme, but is very small outside of those few well-read working class activists in labour unions) and whatever happened to Huey Long's Democrat populism, and I think the latter is probably pretty dead by now as the Democratic Party is much more invested in social justice and economic liberalism while Huey Long's name is more invoked to justify any kind of policy within the borders of Louisiana. The other political movements that are present in Kaiserreich have already been popular amongst edgy strategy gamer kids before Kaiserreich became popular anyways, such as the rise of the more monarchical conservatism of the High Tories within the British Conservative Party's youth (albeit still incredibly small). We already have a few memes for those kind of people within the Victoria II playerbase...

Also, I definitely wouldn't want to live in the world of Kaiserreich:

- Most of "monarchist" Europe is run by practically a collection of dictatorships, satellite states and a few 'democracies' ran by a Prussian style military-bureaucratic administration
- The syndicalist nations have traded Stalinist state suppression for ideological zeal amongst a population very much ready to lynch everyone that doesn't agree with the most radical avant-garde view of syndicalism in 1936
- The US is a powderkeg
- Japan is the same failing democracy as it was in real life, and it probably is even worse now as Ludendorff's ideas of total war (which influenced the Japanese military a lot during their radicalisation) are now even more popular and justified amongst the army
- Russia (in the rework) is ran by rabid nationalists
- The Middle East is dominated by a very unstable modernising state which is at times on the brink of being ruled by nationalist Turks (which we know doesn't work out for minorities) while the rest of said state is being torn apart by ethnic and sectarian violence
- China doesn't go through Generalissimo Cheng's modernisation programs. One can say a lot about the Kuomintang, but at the least they helped alleviate the bad situation in the 1930s. Instead the world of Kaiserreich still has the Zhili (under the guise of a new Qing Empire) and Fengtian cliques fighting it out in northern China while the rest of the country is ran by drug-smuggling warlords like it was in the 1920s. Only Guangdong and Shanxi seem slightly better off and even then they would be faring slightly better in our 'timeline'
- The rest of the world remains roughly the same. However, that same rest of the world wasn't exactly the best place to live in in our 1936 anyways

According to Steam, there are roughly 607K current subscribers to Kaiserreich; that doesn't sound like a lot, but keep in mind that the number of people who really care enough about politics, war, and early-mid 20th century history enough to play a video game centered on all three is probably pretty small to begin with, so 607K is probably a large share of the people who would even be interested enough in the genre to even hear about it, and that also doesn't count people who were subscribed, but now aren't, subscribed to older version and refuse to update, subscribed to the Redux, or who play the Darkest Hour, HOI3, or Victoria II versions.

To this day I still don't even know what syndicalism is.

Punished UMN wrote:

Sajidi Arabia wrote:

I'm not sure whether Kaiserreich is that big. Granted, Hearts of Iron IV is definitely one of the more popular games out there with a very large community, with a big chance of being the most popular strategy game out there. When it comes to how big it is amongst alternative histories Kaiserreich probably is the setting with the largest active fanbase (although I'd say Man in the High Castle is the most well-known setting overall). One thing I have noticed though is that the HOI4 playerbase is on average pretty politically active or at the least keeping up to date with politics. That, mixed with Kaiserreich's decision to opt for a few alternative ideologies and "what-if" political movements helps people find out about some ideologies that haven't seen the light of day since the rise of fascism and the consolidation of communism as socialism's main radical branch.

I don't think it will have any big impact outside of the internet. The main two groups that could "benefit" from new attention are syndicalism (which is more than just a meme, but is very small outside of those few well-read working class activists in labour unions) and whatever happened to Huey Long's Democrat populism, and I think the latter is probably pretty dead by now as the Democratic Party is much more invested in social justice and economic liberalism while Huey Long's name is more invoked to justify any kind of policy within the borders of Louisiana. The other political movements that are present in Kaiserreich have already been popular amongst edgy strategy gamer kids before Kaiserreich became popular anyways, such as the rise of the more monarchical conservatism of the High Tories within the British Conservative Party's youth (albeit still incredibly small). We already have a few memes for those kind of people within the Victoria II playerbase...

Also, I definitely wouldn't want to live in the world of Kaiserreich:

- Most of "monarchist" Europe is run by practically a collection of dictatorships, satellite states and a few 'democracies' ran by a Prussian style military-bureaucratic administration
- The syndicalist nations have traded Stalinist state suppression for ideological zeal amongst a population very much ready to lynch everyone that doesn't agree with the most radical avant-garde view of syndicalism in 1936
- The US is a powderkeg
- Japan is the same failing democracy as it was in real life, and it probably is even worse now as Ludendorff's ideas of total war (which influenced the Japanese military a lot during their radicalisation) are now even more popular and justified amongst the army
- Russia (in the rework) is ran by rabid nationalists
- The Middle East is dominated by a very unstable modernising state which is at times on the brink of being ruled by nationalist Turks (which we know doesn't work out for minorities) while the rest of said state is being torn apart by ethnic and sectarian violence
- China doesn't go through Generalissimo Cheng's modernisation programs. One can say a lot about the Kuomintang, but at the least they helped alleviate the bad situation in the 1930s. Instead the world of Kaiserreich still has the Zhili (under the guise of a new Qing Empire) and Fengtian cliques fighting it out in northern China while the rest of the country is ran by drug-smuggling warlords like it was in the 1920s. Only Guangdong and Shanxi seem slightly better off and even then they would be faring slightly better in our 'timeline'
- The rest of the world remains roughly the same. However, that same rest of the world wasn't exactly the best place to live in in our 1936 anyways

According to Steam, there are roughly 607K current subscribers to Kaiserreich; that doesn't sound like a lot, but keep in mind that the number of people who really care enough about politics, war, and early-mid 20th century history enough to play a video game centered on all three is probably pretty small to begin with, so 607K is probably a large share of the people who would even be interested enough in the genre to even hear about it, and that also doesn't count people who were subscribed, but now aren't, subscribed to older version and refuse to update, subscribed to the Redux, or who play the Darkest Hour, HOI3, or Victoria II versions.

Oh that's a pretty large group of subscribers, I often forget that one can look up how many people are subscribed to a mod on Steam.

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:To this day I still don't even know what syndicalism is.

Very simplified: it works a lot like communism theoretically, but workplaces and possibly government are organised like trade unions. Instead of a CEO / shareholders owning and managing a factory it would instead be ran by all the workers of that factory which will vote on issues like how it works in a trade union, and probably elect a main manager and the foremen from amongst each other. The government would be a council of larger trade unions of the industries and government services (together with maybe a union for artists and such which communist countries sometimes represented in their parliaments). In practice both industry and government would be way more decentralised in comparison to a communist state.

Huey Long-ism is the greatest extent third positionism will ever realistically go in the US. The American populace holds freedom and liberty very dearly for European style fascism or national syndicalism to take ahold here, and the religious (and racist) right has grown more and more unpopular as the GOP alienates more and more of the country

Nousa wrote:

Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana wrote:Huey Long-ism is the greatest extent third positionism will ever realistically go in the US. The American populace holds freedom and liberty very dearly for European style fascism or national syndicalism to take ahold here, and the religious (and racist) right has grown more and more unpopular as the GOP alienates more and more of the country

If that was the case, they wouldn't be screaming their heads off about and trying to suppress it. The reality is such ideals are very popular to Americans, to the extent that much of our history has been battles between the elites and the peasants over this exact issue. There is a reason, specific to Huey Long, FDR had to try the Second New Deal...

Huey Long was often compared with Mussolini and Ataturk when he was most active, some may find it surprising to know the KKK absolutely despised him as well. He was a broad supporter of New Deal reforms but thought it didn’t go far enough, which, as it turns out now, he was right

Senkaku wrote:You might be onto something with the interest in alternate history being representative of our weird dysphoric/boring dystopian world, but two things: remember even the audience for memes about syndies is still a pretty niche audience (much less the audience for actual syndicalism or other ideologies that play a larger role in HoI);

I should note that I'm not claiming this is a particularly widespread phenomena outside of our terminally online circles, but rather an interesting phenomena that I think speaks to a more generalizable observation of how people view the political landscape and the future ahead of us.

Senkaku wrote:and don’t go over the top with historical counterfactuals. We can’t say if the wrong side won WW1, we don’t know things would’ve shaken out a la Kaiserreich or in a completely different way if the Central Powers had emerged victorious.

That was an ironic question, a la 'should every man be a king', which is a Huey Longism.

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:To this day I still don't even know what syndicalism is.

Syndicalism is when you post Kaiserreich memes.

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:To this day I still don't even know what syndicalism is.

Global trade unionism. The idea that socialism through trade unions should be the power structure in which collective ownership is run. Even more basically get everyone to join One Big Union, it's not just a nickname it's the goal, then overthrow capitalism and all governments and replace it all with Unions.

Ifreann wrote:

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:To this day I still don't even know what syndicalism is.

Syndicalism is when you post Kaiserreich memes.

Why do you hurt me?

Kaiserreich isn't that big, Kaiserreich fans are just really loud about it.

Videa gams rule ze world!

Heloin wrote:

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:To this day I still don't even know what syndicalism is.

Global trade unionism. The idea that socialism through trade unions should be the power structure in which collective ownership is run. Even more basically get everyone to join One Big Union, it's not just a nickname it's the goal, then overthrow capitalism and all governments and replace it all with Unions.

Ifreann wrote:Syndicalism is when you post Kaiserreich memes.

Why do you hurt me?

Suffering builds character.

Ifreann wrote:

Heloin wrote:Global trade unionism. The idea that socialism through trade unions should be the power structure in which collective ownership is run. Even more basically get everyone to join One Big Union, it's not just a nickname it's the goal, then overthrow capitalism and all governments and replace it all with Unions.


Why do you hurt me?

Suffering builds character.

That's what my national Cricket team is for. I don't want that and to be associated with the Kaiserriech fan boys.

Heloin wrote:

Ifreann wrote:Suffering builds character.

That's what my national Cricket team is for. I don't want that and to be associated with the Kaiserriech fan boys.

Just go "I'm not associated with you! You're associated with ME!"

I'm not that familiar with Kaiserreich, but some of the potential outcomes do seem to be better than the world we do live in. We aren't as bad as the Man in the High Castle's world, but the status quo is far from ideal.

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:To this day I still don't even know what syndicalism is.

BREAK THE CHAINS! BREAK THE CHAINS!


I think thats what it means.

Heloin wrote:

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:To this day I still don't even know what syndicalism is.

Global trade unionism. The idea that socialism through trade unions should be the power structure in which collective ownership is run. Even more basically get everyone to join One Big Union, it's not just a nickname it's the goal, then overthrow capitalism and all governments and replace it all with Unions.

Ifreann wrote:Syndicalism is when you post Kaiserreich memes.

Why do you hurt me?

I mean this is the actual answer but i like my one more.

The Reformed American Republic wrote:I'm not that familiar with Kaiserreich, but some of the potential outcomes do seem to be better than the world we do live in. We aren't as bad as the Man in the High Castle's world, but the status quo is far from ideal.

you only have a world war and a dozen regional and civil wars to get through first. but y'know, swings and roundabouts

Heloin wrote:

Ifreann wrote:Suffering builds character.

That's what my national Cricket team is for. I don't want that and to be associated with the Kaiserriech fan boys.

Then you must become the most power syndicalist and defeat the pretenders in the free marketplace of ideas. Or maybe become really good a cricket? One of those.

The Holy Therns wrote:

Heloin wrote:That's what my national Cricket team is for. I don't want that and to be associated with the Kaiserriech fan boys.

Just go "I'm not associated with you! You're associated with ME!"

I'm sure the more fashy among them will run away once I start babbling about labour rights and trains.

The Huskar Social Union wrote:

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:To this day I still don't even know what syndicalism is.

BREAK THE CHAINS! BREAK THE CHAINS!


I think thats what it means.

Close enough.

The Huskar Social Union wrote:

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:To this day I still don't even know what syndicalism is.

BREAK THE CHAINS! BREAK THE CHAINS!


I think thats what it means.

PULL THE STRING!

Oh we're not doing that one? Okay.

Heloin wrote:I'm sure the more fashy among them will run away once I start babbling about labour rights and trains.

Mostly the trains. They're probably more afraid of the train fandom.

The Holy Therns wrote:

The Huskar Social Union wrote:BREAK THE CHAINS! BREAK THE CHAINS!


I think thats what it means.

PULL THE STRING!

Oh we're not doing that one? Okay.

Heloin wrote:I'm sure the more fashy among them will run away once I start babbling about labour rights and trains.

Mostly the trains. They're probably more afraid of the train fandom.

Here's my fifty page dissertation on the Key West Railway, it all started...
*sounds of screaming HoI fans*

Crysuko wrote:

The Reformed American Republic wrote:I'm not that familiar with Kaiserreich, but some of the potential outcomes do seem to be better than the world we do live in. We aren't as bad as the Man in the High Castle's world, but the status quo is far from ideal.

you only have a world war and a dozen regional and civil wars to get through first. but y'know, swings and roundabouts

Our timeline has two world wars and numerous others. Your point doesn't have gotcha merit.

The Reformed American Republic wrote:

Crysuko wrote:you only have a world war and a dozen regional and civil wars to get through first. but y'know, swings and roundabouts

Our timeline has two world wars and numerous others. Your point doesn't have gotcha merit.

my point is that it isn't any better than our own