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by Sajidi Arabia » Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:10 pm
by Crysuko » Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:25 pm
Sajidi Arabia wrote:I'm not sure whether Kaiserreich is that big. Granted, Hearts of Iron IV is definitely one of the more popular games out there with a very large community, with a big chance of being the biggest strategy game out there. When it comes to how big it is amongst alternative histories Kaiserreich probably is the setting with the biggest active fanbase (although I'd say Man in the High Castle is the most well-known setting overall). One thing I have noticed though is that the HOI4 playerbase is on average pretty politically active or at the least keeping up to date with politics. That, mixed with Kaiserreich's decision to opt for a few alternative ideologies and "what-if" political movements helps people find out about some ideologies that haven't seen the light of day since the rise of fascism and the consolidation of communism as socialism's main radical branch.
I don't think it will have any big impact outside of the internet. The main two groups that could "benefit" from new attention are syndicalism (which is more than just a meme, but is very small outside of those few well-read working class activists in labour unions) and whatever happened to Huey Long's Democrat populism, and I think the latter is probably pretty dead by now as the Democratic Party is much more invested in social justice and economic liberalism while Huey Long's name is more invoked to justify any kind of policy within the borders of Louisiana. The other political movements that are present in Kaiserreich have already been popular amongst edgy strategy gamer kids before Kaiserreich became popular anyways, such as the rise of the more monarchical conservatism of the High Tories within the British Conservative Party's youth (albeit still incredibly small). We already have a few memes for those kind of people within the Victoria II playerbase...
Also, I definitely wouldn't want to live in the world of Kaiserreich:
- Most of "monarchist" Europe is run by practically a collection of dictatorships, satellite states and a few 'democracies' ran by a Prussian style military-bureaucratic administration
- The syndicalist nations have traded Stalinist state suppression for ideological zeal amongst a population very much ready to lynch everyone that doesn't agree with the most radical avant-garde view of syndicalism in 1936
- The US is a powderkeg
- Japan is the same failing democracy as it was in real life, and it probably is even worse now as Ludendorff's ideas of total war (which influenced the Japanese military a lot during their radicalisation) are now even more popular and justified amongst the army
- Russia (in the rework) is ran by rabid nationalists
- The Middle East is dominated by a very unstable modernising state which is at times on the brink of being ruled by nationalist Turks (which we know doesn't work out for minorities) while the rest of said state is being torn apart by ethnic and sectarian violence
- China doesn't go through Generalissimo Cheng's modernisation programs. One can say a lot about the Kuomintang, but at the least they helped alleviate the bad situation in the 1930s. Instead the world of Kaiserreich still has the Zhili (under the guise of a new Qing Empire) and Fengtian cliques fighting it out in northern China while the rest of the country is ran by drug-smuggling warlords like it was in the 1920s. Only Guangdong and Shanxi seem slightly better off and even then they would be faring slightly better in our 'timeline'
- The rest of the world remains roughly the same. However, that same rest of the world wasn't exactly the best place to live in in our 1936 anyways
by Suriyanakhon » Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:41 pm
by Punished UMN » Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:01 pm
Sajidi Arabia wrote:I'm not sure whether Kaiserreich is that big. Granted, Hearts of Iron IV is definitely one of the more popular games out there with a very large community, with a big chance of being the most popular strategy game out there. When it comes to how big it is amongst alternative histories Kaiserreich probably is the setting with the largest active fanbase (although I'd say Man in the High Castle is the most well-known setting overall). One thing I have noticed though is that the HOI4 playerbase is on average pretty politically active or at the least keeping up to date with politics. That, mixed with Kaiserreich's decision to opt for a few alternative ideologies and "what-if" political movements helps people find out about some ideologies that haven't seen the light of day since the rise of fascism and the consolidation of communism as socialism's main radical branch.
I don't think it will have any big impact outside of the internet. The main two groups that could "benefit" from new attention are syndicalism (which is more than just a meme, but is very small outside of those few well-read working class activists in labour unions) and whatever happened to Huey Long's Democrat populism, and I think the latter is probably pretty dead by now as the Democratic Party is much more invested in social justice and economic liberalism while Huey Long's name is more invoked to justify any kind of policy within the borders of Louisiana. The other political movements that are present in Kaiserreich have already been popular amongst edgy strategy gamer kids before Kaiserreich became popular anyways, such as the rise of the more monarchical conservatism of the High Tories within the British Conservative Party's youth (albeit still incredibly small). We already have a few memes for those kind of people within the Victoria II playerbase...
Also, I definitely wouldn't want to live in the world of Kaiserreich:
- Most of "monarchist" Europe is run by practically a collection of dictatorships, satellite states and a few 'democracies' ran by a Prussian style military-bureaucratic administration
- The syndicalist nations have traded Stalinist state suppression for ideological zeal amongst a population very much ready to lynch everyone that doesn't agree with the most radical avant-garde view of syndicalism in 1936
- The US is a powderkeg
- Japan is the same failing democracy as it was in real life, and it probably is even worse now as Ludendorff's ideas of total war (which influenced the Japanese military a lot during their radicalisation) are now even more popular and justified amongst the army
- Russia (in the rework) is ran by rabid nationalists
- The Middle East is dominated by a very unstable modernising state which is at times on the brink of being ruled by nationalist Turks (which we know doesn't work out for minorities) while the rest of said state is being torn apart by ethnic and sectarian violence
- China doesn't go through Generalissimo Cheng's modernisation programs. One can say a lot about the Kuomintang, but at the least they helped alleviate the bad situation in the 1930s. Instead the world of Kaiserreich still has the Zhili (under the guise of a new Qing Empire) and Fengtian cliques fighting it out in northern China while the rest of the country is ran by drug-smuggling warlords like it was in the 1920s. Only Guangdong and Shanxi seem slightly better off and even then they would be faring slightly better in our 'timeline'
- The rest of the world remains roughly the same. However, that same rest of the world wasn't exactly the best place to live in in our 1936 anyways
by Trollzyn the Infinite » Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:59 pm
by Sajidi Arabia » Mon Apr 26, 2021 5:57 pm
Punished UMN wrote:Sajidi Arabia wrote:I'm not sure whether Kaiserreich is that big. Granted, Hearts of Iron IV is definitely one of the more popular games out there with a very large community, with a big chance of being the most popular strategy game out there. When it comes to how big it is amongst alternative histories Kaiserreich probably is the setting with the largest active fanbase (although I'd say Man in the High Castle is the most well-known setting overall). One thing I have noticed though is that the HOI4 playerbase is on average pretty politically active or at the least keeping up to date with politics. That, mixed with Kaiserreich's decision to opt for a few alternative ideologies and "what-if" political movements helps people find out about some ideologies that haven't seen the light of day since the rise of fascism and the consolidation of communism as socialism's main radical branch.
I don't think it will have any big impact outside of the internet. The main two groups that could "benefit" from new attention are syndicalism (which is more than just a meme, but is very small outside of those few well-read working class activists in labour unions) and whatever happened to Huey Long's Democrat populism, and I think the latter is probably pretty dead by now as the Democratic Party is much more invested in social justice and economic liberalism while Huey Long's name is more invoked to justify any kind of policy within the borders of Louisiana. The other political movements that are present in Kaiserreich have already been popular amongst edgy strategy gamer kids before Kaiserreich became popular anyways, such as the rise of the more monarchical conservatism of the High Tories within the British Conservative Party's youth (albeit still incredibly small). We already have a few memes for those kind of people within the Victoria II playerbase...
Also, I definitely wouldn't want to live in the world of Kaiserreich:
- Most of "monarchist" Europe is run by practically a collection of dictatorships, satellite states and a few 'democracies' ran by a Prussian style military-bureaucratic administration
- The syndicalist nations have traded Stalinist state suppression for ideological zeal amongst a population very much ready to lynch everyone that doesn't agree with the most radical avant-garde view of syndicalism in 1936
- The US is a powderkeg
- Japan is the same failing democracy as it was in real life, and it probably is even worse now as Ludendorff's ideas of total war (which influenced the Japanese military a lot during their radicalisation) are now even more popular and justified amongst the army
- Russia (in the rework) is ran by rabid nationalists
- The Middle East is dominated by a very unstable modernising state which is at times on the brink of being ruled by nationalist Turks (which we know doesn't work out for minorities) while the rest of said state is being torn apart by ethnic and sectarian violence
- China doesn't go through Generalissimo Cheng's modernisation programs. One can say a lot about the Kuomintang, but at the least they helped alleviate the bad situation in the 1930s. Instead the world of Kaiserreich still has the Zhili (under the guise of a new Qing Empire) and Fengtian cliques fighting it out in northern China while the rest of the country is ran by drug-smuggling warlords like it was in the 1920s. Only Guangdong and Shanxi seem slightly better off and even then they would be faring slightly better in our 'timeline'
- The rest of the world remains roughly the same. However, that same rest of the world wasn't exactly the best place to live in in our 1936 anyways
According to Steam, there are roughly 607K current subscribers to Kaiserreich; that doesn't sound like a lot, but keep in mind that the number of people who really care enough about politics, war, and early-mid 20th century history enough to play a video game centered on all three is probably pretty small to begin with, so 607K is probably a large share of the people who would even be interested enough in the genre to even hear about it, and that also doesn't count people who were subscribed, but now aren't, subscribed to older version and refuse to update, subscribed to the Redux, or who play the Darkest Hour, HOI3, or Victoria II versions.
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:To this day I still don't even know what syndicalism is.
by Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana » Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:00 pm
by Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana » Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:05 pm
Nousa wrote:Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana wrote:Huey Long-ism is the greatest extent third positionism will ever realistically go in the US. The American populace holds freedom and liberty very dearly for European style fascism or national syndicalism to take ahold here, and the religious (and racist) right has grown more and more unpopular as the GOP alienates more and more of the country
If that was the case, they wouldn't be screaming their heads off about and trying to suppress it. The reality is such ideals are very popular to Americans, to the extent that much of our history has been battles between the elites and the peasants over this exact issue. There is a reason, specific to Huey Long, FDR had to try the Second New Deal...
by Nilokeras » Mon Apr 26, 2021 7:44 pm
Senkaku wrote:You might be onto something with the interest in alternate history being representative of our weird dysphoric/boring dystopian world, but two things: remember even the audience for memes about syndies is still a pretty niche audience (much less the audience for actual syndicalism or other ideologies that play a larger role in HoI);
Senkaku wrote:and don’t go over the top with historical counterfactuals. We can’t say if the wrong side won WW1, we don’t know things would’ve shaken out a la Kaiserreich or in a completely different way if the Central Powers had emerged victorious.
by Ifreann » Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:01 am
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:To this day I still don't even know what syndicalism is.
by Heloin » Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:11 am
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:To this day I still don't even know what syndicalism is.
by The Holy Therns » Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:13 am
Gallade wrote:Love, cake, wine and banter. No greater meaning to life (〜^∇^)〜
Ethel mermania wrote:to therns is to transend the pettiness of the field of play into the field of dreams.
by Ifreann » Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:26 am
Heloin wrote:Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:To this day I still don't even know what syndicalism is.
Global trade unionism. The idea that socialism through trade unions should be the power structure in which collective ownership is run. Even more basically get everyone to join One Big Union, it's not just a nickname it's the goal, then overthrow capitalism and all governments and replace it all with Unions.Ifreann wrote:Syndicalism is when you post Kaiserreich memes.
Why do you hurt me?
by Heloin » Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:28 am
Ifreann wrote:Heloin wrote:Global trade unionism. The idea that socialism through trade unions should be the power structure in which collective ownership is run. Even more basically get everyone to join One Big Union, it's not just a nickname it's the goal, then overthrow capitalism and all governments and replace it all with Unions.
Why do you hurt me?
Suffering builds character.
by The Holy Therns » Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:30 am
Gallade wrote:Love, cake, wine and banter. No greater meaning to life (〜^∇^)〜
Ethel mermania wrote:to therns is to transend the pettiness of the field of play into the field of dreams.
by The Reformed American Republic » Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:30 am
by The Huskar Social Union » Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:33 am
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:To this day I still don't even know what syndicalism is.
Heloin wrote:Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:To this day I still don't even know what syndicalism is.
Global trade unionism. The idea that socialism through trade unions should be the power structure in which collective ownership is run. Even more basically get everyone to join One Big Union, it's not just a nickname it's the goal, then overthrow capitalism and all governments and replace it all with Unions.Ifreann wrote:Syndicalism is when you post Kaiserreich memes.
Why do you hurt me?
by Crysuko » Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:34 am
The Reformed American Republic wrote:I'm not that familiar with Kaiserreich, but some of the potential outcomes do seem to be better than the world we do live in. We aren't as bad as the Man in the High Castle's world, but the status quo is far from ideal.
by Ifreann » Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:35 am
by The Holy Therns » Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:40 am
Heloin wrote:I'm sure the more fashy among them will run away once I start babbling about labour rights and trains.
Gallade wrote:Love, cake, wine and banter. No greater meaning to life (〜^∇^)〜
Ethel mermania wrote:to therns is to transend the pettiness of the field of play into the field of dreams.
by Heloin » Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:44 am
by The Reformed American Republic » Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:44 am
Crysuko wrote:The Reformed American Republic wrote:I'm not that familiar with Kaiserreich, but some of the potential outcomes do seem to be better than the world we do live in. We aren't as bad as the Man in the High Castle's world, but the status quo is far from ideal.
you only have a world war and a dozen regional and civil wars to get through first. but y'know, swings and roundabouts
by Crysuko » Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:45 am
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