NATION

PASSWORD

UK Politics Thread IX: Try turning the UK off and on again.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Advertisement

Remove ads

What do we think of the Prime Minister's speech?

It was fantastic
8
19%
It was okay I guess
3
7%
Yet another embarrassing speech by Boris Johnson
32
74%
 
Total votes : 43


User avatar
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17828
Founded: Jun 28, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:47 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:go join the British Marxist Party ersumthing instead of voting for Priti "Starve the Irish" Patel.


If I was going to go in for a third party i'd make my own mate. But i'm not going to do that.

so you are voting for Priti "Starve the Irish" Patel in the hopes of convincing her not to starve you to death. does it work?

User avatar
Hukhalia
Envoy
 
Posts: 264
Founded: Aug 31, 2021
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Hukhalia » Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:48 pm

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
If I was going to go in for a third party i'd make my own mate. But i'm not going to do that.

so you are voting for Priti "Starve the Irish" Patel in the hopes of convincing her not to starve you to death. does it work?

hey don't knock it, priti patel is providing some really important minority transylvanian representation
Break eggs, make omelettes.
Be unreasonable. Get angry.
Marxist-Leninist reading resources
Evil tankie scum, red fascist, gravedigger of the revolution, &c.
Proudly illiberal.

In favour of: Socialism, national liberation, class struggle, racial equality, socialist patriotism.
Against: Imperialism, the USA (+ its sphere of influence), liberalism, class collaboration, the culture war, fascism.

You have every reason to be angry. Just make sure you're angry at the right people.

User avatar
Ostroeuropa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 56134
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:53 pm

Hukhalia wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:Conservatives i've spoken to are keen on market socialism as an experiment and i'd wager they'd be fine with drafting up laws to help codify businesses that wanted to do it. If only to dunk on the left and t-pose at them.

1. "conservatives i've spoken to" <--- not an argument lol

2. it's nigh-impossible to formulate revolutionary strategy through bottom-up acquisition of the means of production via worker co-operatives; if only because they fail to take decisive hold of the large fundamental economic infrastructure which remains in the hands of the bourgeois state or bourgeoisie proper.


1. Ofcourse it's an argument if you're actually doing something other than arguing on the internet. How do you think Politics works mate? I'm actually fairly involved in discussing shit with the local tory party and know several members, I attended their meeting on environmentalism by invitation to discuss different perspectives with them and so on. I've been to more Tory social events than Labour ones by this point purely as a result of my local party being full of wokeists and blairites. They actively want me to join. Their opinions on these issues is obviously relevant because at the end of the day we're talking about convincing a room full of 5 or 10 or so (because attendence is just that dismal) people that market socialism is a good shout and compatible with Toryism and they should badger their MP to do it.

2. It would aid in increasing consciousness.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:55 pm, edited 3 times in total.
The feminism that only exists in feminists heads is real, and the feminism that impacts society isn't real.

User avatar
Kerwa
Diplomat
 
Posts: 557
Founded: Jul 24, 2021
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Kerwa » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:08 pm

Hukhalia wrote:2. it's nigh-impossible to formulate revolutionary strategy through bottom-up acquisition of the means of production via worker co-operatives; if only because they fail to take decisive hold of the large fundamental economic infrastructure which remains in the hands of the bourgeois state or bourgeoisie proper.


Co-ops are dead good in and of themselves. They should be set up anyway, regardless of larger purpose.

User avatar
Hukhalia
Envoy
 
Posts: 264
Founded: Aug 31, 2021
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Hukhalia » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:09 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Hukhalia wrote:1. "conservatives i've spoken to" <--- not an argument lol

2. it's nigh-impossible to formulate revolutionary strategy through bottom-up acquisition of the means of production via worker co-operatives; if only because they fail to take decisive hold of the large fundamental economic infrastructure which remains in the hands of the bourgeois state or bourgeoisie proper.


1. Ofcourse it's an argument if you're actually doing something other than arguing on the internet. How do you think Politics works mate? I'm actually fairly involved in discussing shit with the local tory party and know several members, I attended their meeting on environmentalism by invitation to discuss different perspectives with them and so on. I've been to more Tory social events than Labour ones by this point purely as a result of my local party being full of wokeists and blairites. They actively want me to join. Their opinions on these issues is obviously relevant because at the end of the day we're talking about convincing a room full of 5 or 10 or so (because attendence is just that dismal) people that market socialism is a good shout and compatible with Toryism and they should badger their MP to do it.

2. It would aid in increasing consciousness.


1. when talking of society at large we cannot take your (alleged) experiences in the party meetings you (allegedly) went to which do not necessarily represent the opinions of all conservatives in the country

2. expound
Break eggs, make omelettes.
Be unreasonable. Get angry.
Marxist-Leninist reading resources
Evil tankie scum, red fascist, gravedigger of the revolution, &c.
Proudly illiberal.

In favour of: Socialism, national liberation, class struggle, racial equality, socialist patriotism.
Against: Imperialism, the USA (+ its sphere of influence), liberalism, class collaboration, the culture war, fascism.

You have every reason to be angry. Just make sure you're angry at the right people.

User avatar
Ostroeuropa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 56134
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:13 pm

Hukhalia wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
1. Ofcourse it's an argument if you're actually doing something other than arguing on the internet. How do you think Politics works mate? I'm actually fairly involved in discussing shit with the local tory party and know several members, I attended their meeting on environmentalism by invitation to discuss different perspectives with them and so on. I've been to more Tory social events than Labour ones by this point purely as a result of my local party being full of wokeists and blairites. They actively want me to join. Their opinions on these issues is obviously relevant because at the end of the day we're talking about convincing a room full of 5 or 10 or so (because attendence is just that dismal) people that market socialism is a good shout and compatible with Toryism and they should badger their MP to do it.

2. It would aid in increasing consciousness.


1. when talking of society at large we cannot take your (alleged) experiences in the party meetings you (allegedly) went to which do not necessarily represent the opinions of all conservatives in the country

2. expound


1. But I am discussing my personal decision to join the Tory party, not abstract national trends divorced from my personal experiences.

2. Workers organizing themselves to run their own businesses daily would fairly straightforwardly increase class consciousness through practicing the principles of socialism.
The feminism that only exists in feminists heads is real, and the feminism that impacts society isn't real.

User avatar
Vassenor
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60852
Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:29 pm

OK, I'm going to level with you.

This shit right here, where you infantilise men and act like they're being corrupted and harmed by the lack of "traditional" masculine role models on TV? That's toxic masculinty in action. And it's fucking disgusting that the self-described MRA is going to reduce men to base urges like that.
Jenny / Sailor Astraea
WOMAN

MtF trans and proud - She / Her / etc.
100% Asbestos Free

Team Mystic
#iamEUropean

"Have you ever had a moment online, when the need to prove someone wrong has outweighed your own self-preservation instincts?"

User avatar
Dystopian Florida
Secretary
 
Posts: 27
Founded: Nov 18, 2021
New York Times Democracy

Postby Dystopian Florida » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:52 pm

Vassenor wrote:OK, I'm going to level with you.

This shit right here, where you infantilise men and act like they're being corrupted and harmed by the lack of "traditional" masculine role models on TV? That's toxic masculinty in action. And it's fucking disgusting that the self-described MRA is going to reduce men to base urges like that.


Some trad cons (and sit coms) do infantilize men, just as feminism infantilizes women and seeks to give them equal rights without equal responsibility.
Last edited by Dystopian Florida on Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"How do you write women so well?"

"I think of a man. And then I take away reason and accountability." - Jack Nicholson

From As Good As It Gets

User avatar
Vassenor
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60852
Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:01 pm

Dystopian Florida wrote:
Vassenor wrote:OK, I'm going to level with you.

This shit right here, where you infantilise men and act like they're being corrupted and harmed by the lack of "traditional" masculine role models on TV? That's toxic masculinty in action. And it's fucking disgusting that the self-described MRA is going to reduce men to base urges like that.


Some trad cons (and sit coms) do infantilize men, just as feminism infantilizes women and seeks to give them equal rights without equal responsibility.


Not sure where feminists are shirking equal responsibility.
Jenny / Sailor Astraea
WOMAN

MtF trans and proud - She / Her / etc.
100% Asbestos Free

Team Mystic
#iamEUropean

"Have you ever had a moment online, when the need to prove someone wrong has outweighed your own self-preservation instincts?"

User avatar
Ostroeuropa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 56134
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:03 pm

Vassenor wrote:OK, I'm going to level with you.

This shit right here, where you infantilise men and act like they're being corrupted and harmed by the lack of "traditional" masculine role models on TV? That's toxic masculinty in action. And it's fucking disgusting that the self-described MRA is going to reduce men to base urges like that.


Where did you get the idea that i'm saying they're corrupted by a lack of traditional masculine roles?
The feminism that only exists in feminists heads is real, and the feminism that impacts society isn't real.

User avatar
Incelastan
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 42
Founded: Nov 02, 2018
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Incelastan » Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:07 pm

Vassenor wrote:
Dystopian Florida wrote:
Some trad cons (and sit coms) do infantilize men, just as feminism infantilizes women and seeks to give them equal rights without equal responsibility.


Not sure where feminists are shirking equal responsibility.


Insisting that they "are the table" while demanding that men still pay the full dating tab is among examples. Also, when she cheats, it's his fault, but when he cheats, it's also his fault. Can't take responsibility or accountability. Men can be objectified, but women can't. Men can be body shamed. Women can't. Men can be slut-shamed. Women can't. Women get lighter prison sentences on average. Women can have dating standards, but men can't. Jokes about men being raped are kosher with pop culture. Jokes about women provoke performative outrage, of course. The list goes on. Female tyrants in history are excused, but male tyrants are different that way. If Hitler was a woman, they would shout "slay, queen" in approval of the Second World War and everything. Deadbeat moms are ignored, while many dads are labeled deadbeats when they can't pay the unrealistic demands of the court. And are denied access to their children in the meantime. Social media censor's men's groups, but not women's. Male-only spaces are considered sexist, but not female-only.

The list is inexhaustible. Rules for thee, not for me. Feminists want equal rights, but not equal duties. They want supremacy, often framed as "equity," not equality.
Last edited by Incelastan on Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:09 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Target and martyr of hateful moderators and admins. Their naked bias and persecution are truly repulsive and hypocritical. They even destroyed my beautiful factbook, something that they do to no one else.

User avatar
Vassenor
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60852
Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:11 pm

Incelastan wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
Not sure where feminists are shirking equal responsibility.


Insisting that they "are the table" while demanding that men still pay the full dating tab is among examples. Also, when she cheats, it's his fault, but when he cheats, it's also his fault. Can't take responsibility or accountability. Men can be objectified, but women can't. Men can be body shamed. Women can't. Men can be slut-shamed. Women can't. Women get lighter prison sentences on average. Women can have dating standards, but men can't. Jokes about men being raped are kosher with pop culture. Jokes about women provoke performative outrage, of course. The list goes on. Female tyrants in history are excused, but male tyrants are different that way. If Hitler was a woman, they would shout "slay, queen" in approval of the Second World War and everything. Deadbeat moms are ignored, while many dads are labeled deadbeats when they can't pay the unrealistic demands of the court. And are denied access to their children in the meantime. Social media censor's men's groups, but not women's. Male-only spaces are considered sexist, but not female-only.

The list is inexhaustible. Rules for thee, not for me. Feminists want equal rights, but not equal duties. They want supremacy, often framed as "equity," not equality.


Meanwhile, in reality…
Jenny / Sailor Astraea
WOMAN

MtF trans and proud - She / Her / etc.
100% Asbestos Free

Team Mystic
#iamEUropean

"Have you ever had a moment online, when the need to prove someone wrong has outweighed your own self-preservation instincts?"

User avatar
Incelastan
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 42
Founded: Nov 02, 2018
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Incelastan » Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:12 pm

Vassenor wrote:
Incelastan wrote:
Insisting that they "are the table" while demanding that men still pay the full dating tab is among examples. Also, when she cheats, it's his fault, but when he cheats, it's also his fault. Can't take responsibility or accountability. Men can be objectified, but women can't. Men can be body shamed. Women can't. Men can be slut-shamed. Women can't. Women get lighter prison sentences on average. Women can have dating standards, but men can't. Jokes about men being raped are kosher with pop culture. Jokes about women provoke performative outrage, of course. The list goes on. Female tyrants in history are excused, but male tyrants are different that way. If Hitler was a woman, they would shout "slay, queen" in approval of the Second World War and everything. Deadbeat moms are ignored, while many dads are labeled deadbeats when they can't pay the unrealistic demands of the court. And are denied access to their children in the meantime. Social media censor's men's groups, but not women's. Male-only spaces are considered sexist, but not female-only.

The list is inexhaustible. Rules for thee, not for me. Feminists want equal rights, but not equal duties. They want supremacy, often framed as "equity," not equality.


Meanwhile, in reality…


Is that what you call your imagination? How cute.
Target and martyr of hateful moderators and admins. Their naked bias and persecution are truly repulsive and hypocritical. They even destroyed my beautiful factbook, something that they do to no one else.

User avatar
Vassenor
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60852
Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:13 pm

Incelastan wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
Meanwhile, in reality…


Is that what you call your imagination? How cute.


I mean how else am I supposed to describe that screed other than divorced from reality?
Jenny / Sailor Astraea
WOMAN

MtF trans and proud - She / Her / etc.
100% Asbestos Free

Team Mystic
#iamEUropean

"Have you ever had a moment online, when the need to prove someone wrong has outweighed your own self-preservation instincts?"

User avatar
Incelastan
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 42
Founded: Nov 02, 2018
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Incelastan » Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:13 pm

Vassenor wrote:
Incelastan wrote:
Is that what you call your imagination? How cute.


I mean how else am I supposed to describe that screed other than divorced from reality?


The feeling is mutual.
Target and martyr of hateful moderators and admins. Their naked bias and persecution are truly repulsive and hypocritical. They even destroyed my beautiful factbook, something that they do to no one else.

User avatar
Vassenor
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60852
Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:18 pm

Incelastan wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
I mean how else am I supposed to describe that screed other than divorced from reality?


The feeling is mutual.


I mean it is telling that you can’t show these positions actually being argued for by feminists. Just screaming them at the void and demanding we accept them as objective fact.
Jenny / Sailor Astraea
WOMAN

MtF trans and proud - She / Her / etc.
100% Asbestos Free

Team Mystic
#iamEUropean

"Have you ever had a moment online, when the need to prove someone wrong has outweighed your own self-preservation instincts?"

User avatar
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17828
Founded: Jun 28, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:19 pm

At this rate we probs have to throw Vassenor and Ostro et al in a gladiator ring some day.

User avatar
Albrenia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16619
Founded: Aug 18, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Albrenia » Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:20 pm

I wonder when the anti-feminists will learn that they actually do have some valid points, but that coating everything in a thick layer of 'they want to RULE us! Bad Femoids!!11!!!' just makes the whole goddamn thing a laughingstock.


User avatar
The Huskar Social Union
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53916
Founded: Apr 04, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Huskar Social Union » Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:33 pm

The Notorious Mad Jack wrote:It does say something about Nick Fletcher's argument though when his examples are Ghostbusters, James Bond, Doctor Who, Luke Skywalker and The Equaliser are his cultural examples for this - outside of Luke Skywalker (and Luke and Rey are two entirely different characters so he was stretching a fucking ton here), none of these characters or properties are ones that engage young people - who are way more likely to cite YouTubers and other influencers as role models to themselves.

The Equaliser is especially laughable. Is the 2021 reboot of the 2014 reboot problematic as it deprives young boys of a role model but the 2014 reboot of the 1980s tv series not problematic despite it depriving young white boys of a role model by changing the character from a white male to a black one? If not, why not?

When Jodie Whittaker became the Doctor i lost all control of my senses and battered a granny after robbing a library

true story
Last edited by The Huskar Social Union on Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Irish Nationalist from Belfast / Alliance Party / Leftwinger / Atheist
Miniature Painting, Cheese, Curry, Tanks and English Gals are my Kryptonite


I never thought in terms of being a leader. I thought very simply in terms of helping people’ - John Hume


User avatar
Mayhem Era Anglo-America
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 21
Founded: Nov 01, 2021
Father Knows Best State

Postby Mayhem Era Anglo-America » Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:23 pm

:kiss: Recasting the Equalizer was a crime in itself (nothing against any particular actors). That being said, it doesn't justify violence and mayhem, the very sort of thing that Robert McCall (Edward Woodward) would have quashed. No excuses.

Just as there would be no excuses for female perps if their niche films (such as Titanic, a truly horrid film, by the way) were remade and they reacted with flash mobs or something like that.
Last edited by Mayhem Era Anglo-America on Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
A post-apocalyptic Anglophone empire ruled by a single dictator committed to a sort of benevolent paternalism mixed with militant patriarchy. Basically, a kind of dystopia to post-modern feminists.

User avatar
The Nihilistic view
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10681
Founded: May 14, 2013
Moralistic Democracy

Postby The Nihilistic view » Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:47 pm

No I'm not experimenting with market socialism. :rofl:
The Trinity. Churchill Johnson and Thatcher.

Antigua and Barbuda, Australia, The Bahamas, Bahrain, Barbados, Belize, Botswana, Brunei, Bangladesh, Cook Islands, Canada, Cyprus, Dominica, Egypt, France, Fiji, The Gambia, Ghana, Grenada, Guyana, India, Israel, Iraq, Ireland, Jamaica, Jordan, Kenya, Kiribati, Kuwait, Lesotho, Malawi, Malaysia, Singapore, Maldives, Malta, Mauritius, Myanmar, Nauru, New Zealand, Niue, Namibia, Nigeria, Pakistan, Qatar, Saint Lucia, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Seychelles, Sierra Leone, Solomon Islands, South Africa, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Swaziland, Tanzania, Trinidad and Tobago, Tuvalu, Uganda, United Arab Emirates, United States, Vanuatu, Yemen, Zambia, Zimbabwe are UNITED KINGDOM!!!
PC=Econ L/R:2.5(1.88): Soc Lib/Auth:-1.13(0.26)

User avatar
Vystercia-Nasucrea
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 436
Founded: Oct 27, 2009
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Vystercia-Nasucrea » Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:13 pm

Market socialism sounds nice on paper, but give me social democracy any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
"In choosing myself, I choose man." Jean-Paul Sartre

User avatar
-Astoria-
Minister
 
Posts: 2789
Founded: Oct 27, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby -Astoria- » Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:47 pm


Of course.
Vystercia-Nasucrea wrote:Market socialism sounds nice on paper, but give me social democracy any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

This; but get ready to have about five million complaints that because of that, you want to exploit the global south.
Republic of Astoria | Gwernaith Asdair | Šenvat Astoir
 2 Dec 2021 
 ✉ TV1 News | ▶ ⬤──────── Listen (01:00) | Headlines: Please be patient; more headlines will be posted after the break. | Weather: Liskerry ⛅ 12° • Altas ⛅ 13° • Esterpine ☀ 17° • Naltgybal ☁ 16° • Ceirtryn ☂ 9° • Bynscel ⛅ 14° • Lyteel ☁ 12° | Traffic: Car catches fire on HR-03 northbound 

IC: Anthem (lyrics) • EmbassiesFAQIntegrity | OOC: ⅐ Hep'virateCCL's VP • Hmm artist7 civ • 9th in NSFB#110/10: DGES


PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: -Astoria-, Chan Island, Kragholm Free States, Miasto Lodz, Nationalist Northumbria, Old Tyrannia, Prima Scriptura, Tillania

Advertisement

Remove ads