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UK Politics Thread IX: Try turning the UK off and on again.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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The proposals to end the BBC licence fee agreement are:

An excellent idea; the socialists at the BBC have leeched off the British public for far too long.
48
18%
An idea I'm open to discussing, though I have reservations about the timing and the specifics.
15
6%
A bad idea as framed; I'm open to reform of BBC funding, but not like this, and not now.
28
11%
A terrible idea that the government is using to advance a cynical culture war agenda to save Johnson's skin.
80
30%
I have an altar to Sir David Attenborough in my living room and have watched every episode of Dr Who.
25
9%
Wait... you Brits actually have to pay for a TV licence?
68
26%
 
Total votes : 264

User avatar
Chan Island
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6824
Founded: Nov 26, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Chan Island » Tue Oct 26, 2021 1:46 am

Vassenor wrote:
Forsher wrote:
The question is more inviting people to engage in denialism rather than "it was a good thing", the scales are as you say.

I suspect the kind of discussion this was meant to generate was more along the lines of "identify and assess two contrasting positions in the historiography of indigenous Americans post-Columbus".

At Level 3 in NZ, there's a history standard that's called "Demonstrate understanding of different perspectives of people in an historical event of significance to New Zealanders". An example of what that might mean in practice is to be found in document 3.4A here:

Write an introduction about one page in length that:
• describes what happened at My Lai in March 1968
• identifies the historical debate that has resulted from the massacre.
Individuals and groups had (or have) different perspectives on the massacre, for example participants in the massacre, the US army, the US government, official inquiries, journalists, and historians.
Use evidence you have selected to analyse comprehensively different people’s perspectives of the My Lai massacre. For each perspective, demonstrate thorough engagement with the historical evidence as you:
• describe and explain the perspective from the point of view of the individual/group
• analyse the perspective from the historian’s point of view to determine whether, in the light of the historical evidence, the perspective was, or is, justifiable.
Analyse the various perspectives of the event to draw conclusions, based on specific historical evidence, about why the massacre occurred and where the responsibility lay.
Record your completed evidence as a podcast lecture.


That task includes things that you might otherwise ask as "to what extent do you believe the My Lai massacre was justified?". It's just phrased very differently.

Just read the article... what the actual fuck. The question is, I believe, a necessary skill, it just needs rephrasing. However, that's assuming it's introduced very differently and is definitely not the case if you append it at the end of:

Image

That last paragraph beggars belief.



Nah, you should be paid according to the greater of how much other people don't want the job or the difficulty it requires. That is to say, people should be compensated for their time as individuals.

There really is, frankly, little value added by vacuuming an office or standing around on the street exposed to the weather, but no-one really wants work like this, so it should be necessary to pay people rather a lot to get them to do it.

This is, obviously, how the economy is meant to work* but, equally obviously, this is also not how the economy actually works.**

*I mean, yes, there's negotiation with the employer which creates a downward pressure on wages.

**Because people need jobs so badly, the negotiation with the employer is more a dictation, which means people readily end up working for wages that don't compensate them for their time but which is, instead, the greatest amount of money they're able to obtain for their time. This is why "market power" is one of the key violations of "perfect competition" present in "actual markets" (probably rivalled only by externalities).


When I did History for GCSE and A-Level we were always taught to say that any opinion we were asked to discuss was understandable even if we personally disagreed with it and to write both about why someone might hold that opinion and disagree with it.



Not just history too. I did A-Level English Language, and part of that included the eternal debate of Skinner vs Chomsky on language acquisition, with all the best essays being the ones where we piously discuss why it's somewhere in the middle.

But the thing is... it's not even close. I've gone and looked into the books and videos of Chomsky on the subject since school. He absolutely, viscerally, murders the behaviouralist argument in incredible eloquence again and again in a way that makes it really hard to even see where the compromise comes from. That duh, some basics like what specific language babies learn comes from the environment, but that going beyond that is dead-end research.

And I'm not entirely okay with that it took a continuing interest afterwards to learn these details.
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=513597&p=39401766#p39401766
Conserative Morality wrote:"It's not time yet" is a tactic used by reactionaries in every era. "It's not time for democracy, it's not time for capitalism, it's not time for emancipation." Of course it's not time. It's never time, not on its own. You make it time. If you're under fire in the no-man's land of WW1, you start digging a foxhole even if the ideal time would be when you *aren't* being bombarded, because once you wait for it to be 'time', other situations will need your attention, assuming you survive that long. If the fields aren't furrowed, plow them. If the iron is not hot, make it so. If society is not ready, change it.

User avatar
Forsher
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 22041
Founded: Jan 30, 2012
New York Times Democracy

Postby Forsher » Tue Oct 26, 2021 1:54 am

Ifreann wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:In fact I'd say that's the case most of the time.

In fact, that is necessarily the case all of the time. If people were paid according to the value they generate, there would be nothing left over as profit.


Do you mean accounting or economic profit?

Vassenor wrote:When I did History for GCSE and A-Level we were always taught to say that any opinion we were asked to discuss was understandable even if we personally disagreed with it and to write both about why someone might hold that opinion and disagree with it.


This explains a lot about one of Irwin's rants in The History Boys. On the other hand, Irwin is all for edgy takes because they're interesting... what's truth's got to do with it? The way the movie sums it up is better but there's no clip I can find of that.

But hamfisted references to The History Boys aside, I thought the UK would do something similar. And even though that textbook is disgusting, that was probably what the author was trying to get at.
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User avatar
Philjia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11835
Founded: Sep 15, 2014
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Philjia » Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:17 am

Tory MP Owen Paterson faces suspension for egregious breach of lobbying rules.
www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/oct/2 ... ying-rules

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Vassenor
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 68113
Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:18 am

Philjia wrote:Tory MP Owen Paterson faces suspension for egregious breach of lobbying rules.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/202 ... ying-rules


Wait lobbying rules apply to Conservative MPs? News to me.
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The New California Republic
Post Czar
 
Posts: 35483
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Tue Oct 26, 2021 6:08 am

New funding plan paves way for Sizewell C nuclear plant

Funding rules paving the way for a new major nuclear power station will be announced in Parliament later on Tuesday. The move is the latest stage in efforts to build the £20bn Sizewell C project in Suffolk. The proposed plant is still subject to planning approval, but until now, the Treasury has been uncertain of how to pay for it. Even if the project is approved, it still faces strong local objections. The proposals include electricity customers paying for part of nuclear schemes' costs upfront through bills.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59051025
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

User avatar
The New California Republic
Post Czar
 
Posts: 35483
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:06 am

Regarding the raw sewage travesty mentioned yesterday:

Drone captures sewage pumped into sea for days.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

User avatar
The Huskar Social Union
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 59294
Founded: Apr 04, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Huskar Social Union » Tue Oct 26, 2021 1:42 pm

Alliance brought forward an Amendment today in the House of Commons for the "Northern Ireland (Ministers, Elections and Petitions of Concern) Bill"supported by both SDLP MP's that seeks to change the offices of First Minister and Deputy First Minister to the offices of "Joint First Minister" and also to remove the community designation requirements for the positions so that a party seeking to hold the office of DFM would no longer need to be from the second largest political designation etc There were also other amendments brought by the SDLP and others.

To move the following Clause—

“Appointment of First Minister and Deputy First Minister
(1) The Northern Ireland Act 1998 is amended as follows.
(2) In section 16A (Appointment of First Minister, deputy First Minister and
Northern Ireland Ministers following Assembly election), in subsection 4,
omit the words “of the largest political designation”.
(3) For subsection (5) of that section, substitute—
“(5) The nominating officer of the second largest political party shall
nominate a member of the Assembly to be the deputy First Minister.”
(4) In section 16(B) (Vacancies in the office of First Minister or deputy First
Minister), in subsection (4), omit the words “of the largest political
designation”.
(5) For subsection (5) of that section, substitute—
“(5) The nominating officer of the second largest political party shall
nominate a member of the Assembly to be the deputy First Minister.”
(6) In section 16C (sections 16A and 16B: supplementary), omit subsection
(6).”

Member’s explanatory statement
This new clause provides that the deputy First Minister can come from the second largest political party without prescribing that the post be filled by a member from the second largest designation


To move the following Clause—

“Appointment of Joint First Ministers
(1) The Northern Ireland Act 1998 is amended as follows.
(2) In subsection 16A (appointment of Ministers following Assembly
election), leave out subsections (4) to (7) and subsection (9), and insert
after subsection (3)—
“(3ZA)Each candidate for the office of Joint First Ministers must stand for
election jointly with a candidate for the other office.
(3ZB) Two candidates standing jointly shall not be elected to the two offices
without support of two thirds of members present and voting.
(3ZC) The Joint First Ministers—
(a) shall not take up office until each of them has affirmed the terms
of the pledge of office; and
(b) subject to the provisions of this Part, shall hold office until the
conclusion of the next election for First Ministers.”
(3) In subsection (3)(a) the reference to “subsections (4) to (7)” is replaced by
a reference to “subsections (3ZA) to (3ZC)”.
(4) Any reference in the Northern Ireland Act 1998 to the First Minister or
deputy First Minister is to be taken as a reference to the Joint First
Ministers.”

Member’s explanatory statement
This new clause provides for the joint election of First Ministers, and further prescribes a weighted majority vote in the Assembly, without the use of designations, for this purpose.

Stephen Farry NC3
Colum Eastwood
Claire Hanna

To move the following Clause—
“First Minister and deputy First Minister to be referred to as Joint First Ministers. The First Minister and deputy First Minister elected under the Northern Ireland Act 1998 are to be referred to as Joint First Ministers, and all references in that Act (other than to their election) to the First Minister and deputy First Minister are to be read as references to the Joint First Ministers.”

Member’s explanatory statement: This new clause provides that First Minister and deputy First Minister be referred to as Joint First Ministers reflecting their identical status, powers and responsibilities



There are also other requirements for commitments to the New Decade New Approach deal which restored powersharing etc

Parliament also passed the bill earlier today
Last edited by The Huskar Social Union on Tue Oct 26, 2021 1:48 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Irish Nationalist from Belfast / Leftwing / Atheist / Alliance Party voter
"I never thought in terms of being a leader, i thought very simply in terms of helping people" - John Hume 1937 - 2020



I like Miniature painting, Tanks, English Gals, Video games and most importantly Cheese.


User avatar
The Huskar Social Union
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 59294
Founded: Apr 04, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Huskar Social Union » Tue Oct 26, 2021 1:51 pm

The Huskar Social Union wrote:Alliance brought forward an Amendment today in the House of Commons for the "Northern Ireland (Ministers, Elections and Petitions of Concern) Bill"supported by both SDLP MP's that seeks to change the offices of First Minister and Deputy First Minister to the offices of "Joint First Minister" and also to remove the community designation requirements for the positions so that a party seeking to hold the office of DFM would no longer need to be from the second largest political designation etc There were also other amendments brought by the SDLP and others.

To move the following Clause—

“Appointment of First Minister and Deputy First Minister
(1) The Northern Ireland Act 1998 is amended as follows.
(2) In section 16A (Appointment of First Minister, deputy First Minister and
Northern Ireland Ministers following Assembly election), in subsection 4,
omit the words “of the largest political designation”.
(3) For subsection (5) of that section, substitute—
“(5) The nominating officer of the second largest political party shall
nominate a member of the Assembly to be the deputy First Minister.”
(4) In section 16(B) (Vacancies in the office of First Minister or deputy First
Minister), in subsection (4), omit the words “of the largest political
designation”.
(5) For subsection (5) of that section, substitute—
“(5) The nominating officer of the second largest political party shall
nominate a member of the Assembly to be the deputy First Minister.”
(6) In section 16C (sections 16A and 16B: supplementary), omit subsection
(6).”

Member’s explanatory statement
This new clause provides that the deputy First Minister can come from the second largest political party without prescribing that the post be filled by a member from the second largest designation


To move the following Clause—

“Appointment of Joint First Ministers
(1) The Northern Ireland Act 1998 is amended as follows.
(2) In subsection 16A (appointment of Ministers following Assembly
election), leave out subsections (4) to (7) and subsection (9), and insert
after subsection (3)—
“(3ZA)Each candidate for the office of Joint First Ministers must stand for
election jointly with a candidate for the other office.
(3ZB) Two candidates standing jointly shall not be elected to the two offices
without support of two thirds of members present and voting.
(3ZC) The Joint First Ministers—
(a) shall not take up office until each of them has affirmed the terms
of the pledge of office; and
(b) subject to the provisions of this Part, shall hold office until the
conclusion of the next election for First Ministers.”
(3) In subsection (3)(a) the reference to “subsections (4) to (7)” is replaced by
a reference to “subsections (3ZA) to (3ZC)”.
(4) Any reference in the Northern Ireland Act 1998 to the First Minister or
deputy First Minister is to be taken as a reference to the Joint First
Ministers.”

Member’s explanatory statement
This new clause provides for the joint election of First Ministers, and further prescribes a weighted majority vote in the Assembly, without the use of designations, for this purpose.

Stephen Farry NC3
Colum Eastwood
Claire Hanna

To move the following Clause—
“First Minister and deputy First Minister to be referred to as Joint First Ministers. The First Minister and deputy First Minister elected under the Northern Ireland Act 1998 are to be referred to as Joint First Ministers, and all references in that Act (other than to their election) to the First Minister and deputy First Minister are to be read as references to the Joint First Ministers.”

Member’s explanatory statement: This new clause provides that First Minister and deputy First Minister be referred to as Joint First Ministers reflecting their identical status, powers and responsibilities



There are also other requirements for commitments to the New Decade New Approach deal which restored powersharing etc

Parliament also passed the bill earlier today

Notable change is the time period for nominating the first minister or deputy first minister. Its going from seven days to twenty four weeks.
Irish Nationalist from Belfast / Leftwing / Atheist / Alliance Party voter
"I never thought in terms of being a leader, i thought very simply in terms of helping people" - John Hume 1937 - 2020



I like Miniature painting, Tanks, English Gals, Video games and most importantly Cheese.


User avatar
The New California Republic
Post Czar
 
Posts: 35483
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:19 pm

Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

User avatar
The Huskar Social Union
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 59294
Founded: Apr 04, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Huskar Social Union » Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:32 pm

Irish language legislation expected to be tabled within days, says Michelle O’Neill

DEPUTY FIRST MINISTER of Northern Ireland Michelle O’Neill has said she expects the UK government to table the Irish language legislation next week.

Labour has also promised to support the bill as it passes through Parliament.

Speaking in Belfast after addressing the Irish Congress of Trade Unions (ICTU) conference today, Sinn Fein vice president O’Neill, said, as a New Decade, New Approach political commitment, it must be delivered upon.

She said: “Unfortunately the DUP reneged on that commitment and we had to find a solution and a way around the DUP, that was delivered upon by the British Government, so we expect to see that legislation tabled over the course of the next week or so.”

O’Neill said she will meet with Northern Ireland Secretary Brandon Lewis and David Frost later.

Also today, a group of cross-party MPs and campaigners gathered outside the Houses of Parliament to pressure the British Government to deliver legislation quickly.

The government pledged to press ahead with legislating for Irish language protections at Westminster after failed attempts at Stormont, with Lewis saying the move would come at some point in October.

=CONTINUES=
Get it over and done with already, should have been done years ago.
Irish Nationalist from Belfast / Leftwing / Atheist / Alliance Party voter
"I never thought in terms of being a leader, i thought very simply in terms of helping people" - John Hume 1937 - 2020



I like Miniature painting, Tanks, English Gals, Video games and most importantly Cheese.


User avatar
Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 163903
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:35 pm

The Huskar Social Union wrote:Alliance brought forward an Amendment today in the House of Commons for the "Northern Ireland (Ministers, Elections and Petitions of Concern) Bill"supported by both SDLP MP's that seeks to change the offices of First Minister and Deputy First Minister to the offices of "Joint First Minister" and also to remove the community designation requirements for the positions so that a party seeking to hold the office of DFM would no longer need to be from the second largest political designation etc There were also other amendments brought by the SDLP and others.

To move the following Clause—

“Appointment of First Minister and Deputy First Minister
(1) The Northern Ireland Act 1998 is amended as follows.
(2) In section 16A (Appointment of First Minister, deputy First Minister and
Northern Ireland Ministers following Assembly election), in subsection 4,
omit the words “of the largest political designation”.
(3) For subsection (5) of that section, substitute—
“(5) The nominating officer of the second largest political party shall
nominate a member of the Assembly to be the deputy First Minister.”
(4) In section 16(B) (Vacancies in the office of First Minister or deputy First
Minister), in subsection (4), omit the words “of the largest political
designation”.
(5) For subsection (5) of that section, substitute—
“(5) The nominating officer of the second largest political party shall
nominate a member of the Assembly to be the deputy First Minister.”
(6) In section 16C (sections 16A and 16B: supplementary), omit subsection
(6).”

Member’s explanatory statement
This new clause provides that the deputy First Minister can come from the second largest political party without prescribing that the post be filled by a member from the second largest designation


To move the following Clause—

“Appointment of Joint First Ministers
(1) The Northern Ireland Act 1998 is amended as follows.
(2) In subsection 16A (appointment of Ministers following Assembly
election), leave out subsections (4) to (7) and subsection (9), and insert
after subsection (3)—
“(3ZA)Each candidate for the office of Joint First Ministers must stand for
election jointly with a candidate for the other office.
(3ZB) Two candidates standing jointly shall not be elected to the two offices
without support of two thirds of members present and voting.
(3ZC) The Joint First Ministers—
(a) shall not take up office until each of them has affirmed the terms
of the pledge of office; and
(b) subject to the provisions of this Part, shall hold office until the
conclusion of the next election for First Ministers.”
(3) In subsection (3)(a) the reference to “subsections (4) to (7)” is replaced by
a reference to “subsections (3ZA) to (3ZC)”.
(4) Any reference in the Northern Ireland Act 1998 to the First Minister or
deputy First Minister is to be taken as a reference to the Joint First
Ministers.”

Member’s explanatory statement
This new clause provides for the joint election of First Ministers, and further prescribes a weighted majority vote in the Assembly, without the use of designations, for this purpose.

Stephen Farry NC3
Colum Eastwood
Claire Hanna

To move the following Clause—
“First Minister and deputy First Minister to be referred to as Joint First Ministers. The First Minister and deputy First Minister elected under the Northern Ireland Act 1998 are to be referred to as Joint First Ministers, and all references in that Act (other than to their election) to the First Minister and deputy First Minister are to be read as references to the Joint First Ministers.”

Member’s explanatory statement: This new clause provides that First Minister and deputy First Minister be referred to as Joint First Ministers reflecting their identical status, powers and responsibilities



There are also other requirements for commitments to the New Decade New Approach deal which restored powersharing etc

Parliament also passed the bill earlier today

Radical Alliance radical agenda.
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we never summon the devil
we never hide from from the devil
we never


User avatar
Philjia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11835
Founded: Sep 15, 2014
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Philjia » Wed Oct 27, 2021 5:41 am

Tories have fully embraced the "throw money around and see what happens" school of economics.

⚧ Trans rights. ⚧
Pragmatic ethical utopian socialist, IE I'm for whatever kind of socialism is the most moral and practical. Pro LGBT rights and gay marriage, pro gay adoption, generally internationalist, ambivalent on the EU, atheist, pro free speech and expression, pro legalisation of prostitution and soft drugs, and pro choice. Anti authoritarian, anti Marxist. White cishet male.

User avatar
CoraSpia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13458
Founded: Mar 01, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby CoraSpia » Wed Oct 27, 2021 6:13 am

Given that this is an authoritarian tax-and-spend government, if Thatcher's greatest success was Blair was Blair's greatest success Boris?
GVH has a puppet. It supports #NSTransparency and hosts a weekly zoom call for nsers that you should totally check out

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Stalliongrad and Far-Eastern Territories
Diplomat
 
Posts: 584
Founded: Jan 21, 2012
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Stalliongrad and Far-Eastern Territories » Wed Oct 27, 2021 6:20 am

I think the characterisation of this government as 'tax and spend' isn't quite on the money. It's very much the narrative being fed, but that just isn't the case. Just look at the Universal Credit cuts and the continued draw-down of public spending. This is a government that is doing the absolute bare minimum necessary to keep things ticking over, and any time it is forced to spend money it does so in the ugliest, least efficient, most free-market-fanatic way possible.

They hate governing, and they are doing it as a last resort, on any issue other than bringing the boot down on people, and even there they're doing it by farming it out to private contractors wherever possible. The prevailing ideology of this country's political class is Cargo Cult Thatcherism.
Labour is Freedom, Service is Enslavement.
From the Desk of Ambassador Valentina Ironfoot,
Stalliongrad Office of Foreign Affairs,
Ministry of the Exterior,
Parlaiment House,
12 Revolution Blvd,
Stalliongrad ST19-3BQ,
The Socialist Republic of Stalliongrad and Far-Eastern Territories

New Zepuha wrote:We have voted AGAINST this laudable act.
Khadgar wrote:
Randy F Marsh wrote:
most of the communist parties that are out there are incompatible with communism.


Well "Jack-booted Authoritarian Dick Party" is a tough sell.
⚧I'm a woman.⚧

User avatar
CoraSpia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13458
Founded: Mar 01, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby CoraSpia » Wed Oct 27, 2021 6:23 am

Stalliongrad and Far-Eastern Territories wrote:I think the characterisation of this government as 'tax and spend' isn't quite on the money. It's very much the narrative being fed, but that just isn't the case. Just look at the Universal Credit cuts and the continued draw-down of public spending. This is a government that is doing the absolute bare minimum necessary to keep things ticking over, and any time it is forced to spend money it does so in the ugliest, least efficient, most free-market-fanatic way possible.

They hate governing, and they are doing it as a last resort, on any issue other than bringing the boot down on people, and even there they're doing it by farming it out to private contractors wherever possible. The prevailing ideology of this country's political class is Cargo Cult Thatcherism.

You do realise that you're speaking at a time when we have the highest tax rates since the 1950s and on the day of a budget which introduces another 150 billion pounds in extra spending right?
GVH has a puppet. It supports #NSTransparency and hosts a weekly zoom call for nsers that you should totally check out

User avatar
Stalliongrad and Far-Eastern Territories
Diplomat
 
Posts: 584
Founded: Jan 21, 2012
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Stalliongrad and Far-Eastern Territories » Wed Oct 27, 2021 6:30 am

CoraSpia wrote:
Stalliongrad and Far-Eastern Territories wrote:I think the characterisation of this government as 'tax and spend' isn't quite on the money. It's very much the narrative being fed, but that just isn't the case. Just look at the Universal Credit cuts and the continued draw-down of public spending. This is a government that is doing the absolute bare minimum necessary to keep things ticking over, and any time it is forced to spend money it does so in the ugliest, least efficient, most free-market-fanatic way possible.

They hate governing, and they are doing it as a last resort, on any issue other than bringing the boot down on people, and even there they're doing it by farming it out to private contractors wherever possible. The prevailing ideology of this country's political class is Cargo Cult Thatcherism.

You do realise that you're speaking at a time when we have the highest tax rates since the 1950s and on the day of a budget which introduces another 150 billion pounds in extra spending right?


150 billion is a drop in the bucket, it's not going to fix any of the chronic issues destabilizing public services, it's papering over the cracks. A good chunk of that is tax breaks for the wealthy (either directly or through business rate reduction, or the tax break for domestic air travel, (which in particular is an obscene idea for a dozen reasons))
Labour is Freedom, Service is Enslavement.
From the Desk of Ambassador Valentina Ironfoot,
Stalliongrad Office of Foreign Affairs,
Ministry of the Exterior,
Parlaiment House,
12 Revolution Blvd,
Stalliongrad ST19-3BQ,
The Socialist Republic of Stalliongrad and Far-Eastern Territories

New Zepuha wrote:We have voted AGAINST this laudable act.
Khadgar wrote:
Randy F Marsh wrote:
most of the communist parties that are out there are incompatible with communism.


Well "Jack-booted Authoritarian Dick Party" is a tough sell.
⚧I'm a woman.⚧

User avatar
CoraSpia
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Posts: 13458
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Ex-Nation

Postby CoraSpia » Wed Oct 27, 2021 6:38 am

Stalliongrad and Far-Eastern Territories wrote:
CoraSpia wrote:You do realise that you're speaking at a time when we have the highest tax rates since the 1950s and on the day of a budget which introduces another 150 billion pounds in extra spending right?


150 billion is a drop in the bucket, it's not going to fix any of the chronic issues destabilizing public services, it's papering over the cracks. A good chunk of that is tax breaks for the wealthy (either directly or through business rate reduction, or the tax break for domestic air travel, (which in particular is an obscene idea for a dozen reasons))

The business rate reduction is specifically to help out hospitality, most of which is in the form of small independent businesses (Wetherspoons pubs being a small minority.)
The 150 billion, according to the bbc, includes the following:
4.6 billion more to Scotland, 2.5 for Wales and 1.6 for Northern Ireland.
46 billion on railways and 21 billion on roads, plus 5.7 billion for transport in city regions
5 billion on cycling infrastructure
24 billion on housing
450m on early years
2 billion on schools with 4.7 further down the line
6 billion for justice (because we really need to be spending 3.8 billion on new prisons, not like we have too many people locked up already)
This doesn't even include the money that appears to be uncosted, like the 20000 extra police officers and 'new money' aimed at levelling up. The only tax cut that appears to make no sense is that on short-hawl flights, although he's putting up the already insane amount of duty on long-hawl flights.
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Stalliongrad and Far-Eastern Territories
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Postby Stalliongrad and Far-Eastern Territories » Wed Oct 27, 2021 6:44 am

CoraSpia wrote:
Stalliongrad and Far-Eastern Territories wrote:
150 billion is a drop in the bucket, it's not going to fix any of the chronic issues destabilizing public services, it's papering over the cracks. A good chunk of that is tax breaks for the wealthy (either directly or through business rate reduction, or the tax break for domestic air travel, (which in particular is an obscene idea for a dozen reasons))

The business rate reduction is specifically to help out hospitality, most of which is in the form of small independent businesses (Wetherspoons pubs being a small minority.)
The 150 billion, according to the bbc, includes the following:
4.6 billion more to Scotland, 2.5 for Wales and 1.6 for Northern Ireland.
46 billion on railways and 21 billion on roads, plus 5.7 billion for transport in city regions
5 billion on cycling infrastructure
24 billion on housing
450m on early years
2 billion on schools with 4.7 further down the line
6 billion for justice (because we really need to be spending 3.8 billion on new prisons, not like we have too many people locked up already)
This doesn't even include the money that appears to be uncosted, like the 20000 extra police officers and 'new money' aimed at levelling up. The only tax cut that appears to make no sense is that on short-hawl flights, although he's putting up the already insane amount of duty on long-hawl flights.


As I said, a drop in the bucket. 46 billion on the railways is inadequate, 2 billion on schools is inadequate, building more prisons is frankly insane, given that reform to the sentencing regime is an infinitely cheaper and less evil thing to do, 450m on early years is an insult, and more cops isn't the answer to any problem other than "Wayne Couzens doesn't have enough friends to make up an amateur football team".

And where exactly is the NHS in this spending boom? Oh right, still shafted and getting flogged to Richard Branson et al.
Last edited by Stalliongrad and Far-Eastern Territories on Wed Oct 27, 2021 6:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Philjia
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Philjia » Wed Oct 27, 2021 7:05 am

Stalliongrad and Far-Eastern Territories wrote:I think the characterisation of this government as 'tax and spend' isn't quite on the money. It's very much the narrative being fed, but that just isn't the case. Just look at the Universal Credit cuts and the continued draw-down of public spending. This is a government that is doing the absolute bare minimum necessary to keep things ticking over, and any time it is forced to spend money it does so in the ugliest, least efficient, most free-market-fanatic way possible.

They hate governing, and they are doing it as a last resort, on any issue other than bringing the boot down on people, and even there they're doing it by farming it out to private contractors wherever possible. The prevailing ideology of this country's political class is Cargo Cult Thatcherism.

They appear to be just picking things to spend on out of a hat. "Fuck around and find out" as policy.

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CoraSpia
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Founded: Mar 01, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby CoraSpia » Wed Oct 27, 2021 7:07 am

Stalliongrad and Far-Eastern Territories wrote:
CoraSpia wrote:The business rate reduction is specifically to help out hospitality, most of which is in the form of small independent businesses (Wetherspoons pubs being a small minority.)
The 150 billion, according to the bbc, includes the following:
4.6 billion more to Scotland, 2.5 for Wales and 1.6 for Northern Ireland.
46 billion on railways and 21 billion on roads, plus 5.7 billion for transport in city regions
5 billion on cycling infrastructure
24 billion on housing
450m on early years
2 billion on schools with 4.7 further down the line
6 billion for justice (because we really need to be spending 3.8 billion on new prisons, not like we have too many people locked up already)
This doesn't even include the money that appears to be uncosted, like the 20000 extra police officers and 'new money' aimed at levelling up. The only tax cut that appears to make no sense is that on short-hawl flights, although he's putting up the already insane amount of duty on long-hawl flights.


As I said, a drop in the bucket. 46 billion on the railways is inadequate, 2 billion on schools is inadequate, building more prisons is frankly insane, given that reform to the sentencing regime is an infinitely cheaper and less evil thing to do, 450m on early years is an insult, and more cops isn't the answer to any problem other than "Wayne Couzens doesn't have enough friends to make up an amateur football team".

And where exactly is the NHS in this spending boom? Oh right, still shafted and getting flogged to Richard Branson et al.

Didn't they just raise taxes to ridiculous levels to throw into the national money pit? I totally agree with you on prisons and policing, that's one area where we can take a massive axe and cut cut cut to high heaven, but it can't be denied that spending is going up massively. It might not be in the right areas but it's definitely going up.
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Huskar Social Union » Wed Oct 27, 2021 11:43 am

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