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UK Politics Thread IX: Try turning the UK off and on again.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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The proposals to end the BBC licence fee agreement are:

An excellent idea; the socialists at the BBC have leeched off the British public for far too long.
48
18%
An idea I'm open to discussing, though I have reservations about the timing and the specifics.
15
6%
A bad idea as framed; I'm open to reform of BBC funding, but not like this, and not now.
28
11%
A terrible idea that the government is using to advance a cynical culture war agenda to save Johnson's skin.
80
30%
I have an altar to Sir David Attenborough in my living room and have watched every episode of Dr Who.
25
9%
Wait... you Brits actually have to pay for a TV licence?
68
26%
 
Total votes : 264

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The Archregimancy
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Postby The Archregimancy » Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:09 am

The Archregimancy wrote:
North Washington Republic wrote:Just out of curiosity, why is nationalism more popular in Scotland than it is in Wales?


That's a complex issue, and one difficult to summarise in a quick NSG post, but offering just a few rapid bullet points based on some of my own past published work on the issue:

Scotland was an independent state far more recently than Wales; it therefore has a more recent history of independence to fall back on.

While Wales has long had a distinct language, history, and culture, it has very little history of political unity. Up until Wales was fully legally annexed to England in the 1530s and 1540s, the only individual to rule all of Wales after the final collapse of Roman rule in the early 5th century was Gruffydd ap Llywelyn, who briefly united all of Wales from 1055–1063.

Even after the Acts of Union, Scotland maintained distinct national institutions (most notably its separate legal system) that formed a basis for the continuity of both de jure and de facto legal and cultural distinctiveness within the broader British state.

During the 19th-century Romantic period 'invention of tradition' that impacted so many European national identities, the ironically artificial tartan Highland version of Scotland's past was A) backed and promulgated by one of the most popular literary titans of the day, Sir Walter Scott (who also had a hand in developing English identity; see Ivanhoe); B) adopted by both Scottish and UK national elites - see Queen Victoria and Prince Albert adopting tartan at Balmoral; and C) therefore quickly gained cross-community appeal in Scotland on the basis of its fashionability.

Modern Welsh nationalist movements grew out of groups that advocated for protecting the Welsh language in a period where Welsh was no longer spoken by at least half the population of Wales (something which happened after 1901), and became closely tied to the language (it's no coincidence that there's significant overlap between Plaid Cymru seats and areas of Wales where Welsh is still a majority community language); this has traditionally limited appeal the appeal of Welsh nationalism. Scottish nationalism, in contrast, often embraces both Scots and Gaelic, but has always been primarily an English-language movement.

Precisely because Wales was overwhelmingly Welsh-speaking until c.1801, and still majority Welsh-speaking until c.1901, it tended to be more marginalised within the broader British body politic; its cultural distinctiveness was simply ignored by, rather than embraced by, British elites - even the Welsh ones. Compared to Scotland, there was far less intersection between the artificially created 19th-century vision of distinctive Welshness advanced by the minority of local elites prepared to embrace that vision (most notably Lady Llanover - the wife of Benjamin Hall, Lord Llanover, aka the original 'Big Ben' - who almost singlehandedly invented the red shawl and black stovepipe hat 'traditional dress' for women) and the actual Welsh-language cultural distinctiveness of the ordinary Welsh.

That's all an oversimplification, of course, but I think it addresses the main points.



Just building on this quickly, national dress in Scotland and Wales offers a microcosm of the contrast.

In Scotland, the modern close association between kilt and tartan is largely a 19th-century invention, one closely associated with George IV's (in)famous visit to Edinburgh in 1822. Sir Walter Scott decided the event should be a 'gathering of the Gael', and informed everyone attending the central banquet that they would have to wear their traditional clan dress - and never mind that most of the Scottish elite were Lowlanders who prior to 1822 had nothing but disdain for Highlanders, and no ancestral clan dress to speak of. Edinburgh's tailors were pressed into service, and started literally pulling plaid patterns off the shelf and claiming they were the 'traditional' tartans for a specific clan, and using a modified 18th-century version of the kilt rather than the traditional belted plaid. The process was subsequently accelerated by two English fraudsters known to history as the 'Sobieksi Stuarts' who claimed to be legitimate grandchildren of Charles Stuart (the Young Pretender) and published two books called the Vestiarium Scoticum and Costume of the Clans that claimed to be the authentic ancient record of traditional clan tartans, but were essentially works of Victorian fantasy (though they seem to have reused some of the existing associations from 1822) - deeply influential ones that still form the basis of much of the assumptions underlying the modern Scottish tartan industry. Once Victoria and Albert bought into this, it went mainstream across the UK and internationally.

But.... For all that Sir Walter Scott (unintentionally) and the Sobieski Stuarts (intentionally) are responsible the modern version of Highland Scotland, they didn't completely make it up, either. There had been some regional associations between specific plaid patterns before 1822; there had been a form of highland dress that was adapted into what we know as the kilt in the 18th century. What happened in the 19th century was that the relationship was narrowly defined and formalised into a relationship between families and specific tartans that was used for the more modern version of the kilt and extended throughout Scotland - even into the Lowlands, which was perhaps the silliest part of the process given traditional Lowland attitudes toward the Highlands.

The process in Wales was quite distinct from Scotland, though it shares some superficial similarities. In 1834, Lady Llanover won an Eisteddfod competition with an essay titled 'The Advantages resulting from the Preservation of the Welsh language and National Costume of Wales'. That no such national costume existed was no impediment to this resourceful woman, and she promptly set about inventing one loosely based on outfits worn by peasant women in South Wales. Just to demonstrate that Wikipedia isn't always reliable, the entry on Lady Llanover claims that 'there is very little evidence to show that she had any influence on the wearing of Welsh costume other than by her servants, family and friends, and there is no firm evidence to suggest that she influenced what was later adopted as the national costume of Wales'. This runs counter to current scholarship; indeed, the same Wiki article is illustrated by a painting of Lady Llanover wearing what we now consider as Welsh costume. Also, the main reason that there's no national costume for men in Wales is that her husband Benjamin flatly refused to wear the faintly ridiculous outfit she'd designed for him. While 'Welsh costume' had achieved some currency by the end of the 19th century (I have some 19th-century bone china cups and saucers made for tourists to Wales and featuring women in 'traditional' dress), it was never adopted by British royalty or by contemporary Welsh elites other than Lady Llanover's immediate friends. It therefore took much longer to become an accepted part of Welsh identity as opposed to a family curiosity based on pick and mix streamlining of a range of local peasant outfits for women.


For what it's worth, similar processes of the reification and formalisation of what we now consider to be national identities were taking place all over Europe (very much including in England) in the same period. There's a vast literature on the subject.

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The Huskar Social Union
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:13 am

Heloin wrote:
The Huskar Social Union wrote:Strong chance Unionism could still be the biggest designation in the assembly after an election.

I can see the DUP taking a battering but them, the TUV and UUP combined will still probably have the largest number of seats. I can see "Others" doing well in the form of Alliance, maybe a gain for PBP in Derry and Nationalism will maybe have some slight losses in a few places.

I expect SF to hold onto most of its votes and seats, possibly losing one or two overall and the SDLP to remain largely the same, perhaps a gain or loss in certain areas (I think they have a chance of gaining in Strangford for example at the expense of the former DUP Education Minister Peter Weir)

Total PBP sweep of the whole Stormont.

Image

I think they could win a seat in Derry perhaps, but not anywhere else. Though they could increase their vote share across the board maybe. They got 14,100 votes last time which was 1.8% so lets see how the old marxist boyos do.
Last edited by The Huskar Social Union on Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:15 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Old Tyrannia
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Postby Old Tyrannia » Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:20 am

Heloin wrote:
The Huskar Social Union wrote:Strong chance Unionism could still be the biggest designation in the assembly after an election.

I can see the DUP taking a battering but them, the TUV and UUP combined will still probably have the largest number of seats. I can see "Others" doing well in the form of Alliance, maybe a gain for PBP in Derry and Nationalism will maybe have some slight losses in a few places.

I expect SF to hold onto most of its votes and seats, possibly losing one or two overall and the SDLP to remain largely the same, perhaps a gain or loss in certain areas (I think they have a chance of gaining in Strangford for example at the expense of the former DUP Education Minister Peter Weir)

Total PBP sweep of the whole Stormont.

It would certainly be unfortunate if the whole of Stormont were diagnosed with progressive bulbar palsy, but I don't think it's very likely.
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Heloin
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Postby Heloin » Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:23 am

Can I just say as someone with a slight stutter PBP is not easy to to say.

The Huskar Social Union wrote:
Heloin wrote:Total PBP sweep of the whole Stormont.

Image

I think they could win a seat in Derry perhaps, but not anywhere else. Though they could increase their vote share across the board maybe. They got 14,100 votes last time which was 1.8% so lets see how the old marxist boyos do.

I have as more faith in them winning then I have in whoever the new DUP leader is lasting year.

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Old Tyrannia
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Postby Old Tyrannia » Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:26 am

Heloin wrote:Can I just say as someone with a slight stutter PBP is not easy to to say.

It would be even harder to say if you had it.

Sorry, that was a particularly dark joke even for NSG, but I couldn't resist.
"Classicist in literature, royalist in politics, and Anglo-Catholic in religion" (T.S. Eliot). Still, unaccountably, a NationStates Moderator.
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Heloin
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Postby Heloin » Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:28 am

Old Tyrannia wrote:
Heloin wrote:Can I just say as someone with a slight stutter PBP is not easy to to say.

It would be even harder to say if you had it.

Sorry, that was a particularly dark joke even for NSG, but I couldn't resist.

:lol2:

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The Archregimancy
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Postby The Archregimancy » Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:17 am

If you had asked me yesterday which British newspaper (excluding the Daily Star, mind) was least likely to cover the crisis currently facing British archaeology, the Daily Express likely would have come near the top of the list.

So colour me suitably surprised:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/14519 ... ohnson-spt

Even more surprising is that while the Express can't quite help being the Express and giving this a Brexit angle (which is not the focus of the Dig for Archaeology campaign), it's not covering Brexit positively in this one instance.

That said, the Dig for Archaeology campaign mentioned in the article is not party political, and has intentionally engaged with MPs from all of the major political parties. Conservative MP Tim Loughton is one of the campaign's public supporters (likely because he studied Mesopotamian archaeology at Cambridge, but there you go) and a majority of the All Party Parliamentary Group for Archaeology members from the Commons (15 out of 23) are Conservatives.

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The Huskar Social Union
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:26 am

Labour in Ceredigion want Wales to go it alone and ditch UK party

Its only one CLP so far but i thought this was interesting. The CLP in Ceredigion wants Welsh Labour to become its own independent party unaffiliated with the overall UK Labour party. I wonder if any other Welsh CLP's will follow suit with this.
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The Nihilistic view
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Postby The Nihilistic view » Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:16 am

Seems a natural progression of devolution to me. Regional parties will naturally diverge overtime from their parent parties especially when they have power in a region. So it makes sense there will be calls to separate at some point. It's not a uniquely Labour problem it's just I think most likely to come to a head when the regional party is in power in the region and the national party is having problems. For Labour in Wales disassociation from the national party would be appealing right now all things considered.

The one remaining question would be does an independent Welsh Labour party run in Westminster elections or not?
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Postby Salandriagado » Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:24 am

Quick PSA: the vaccination booking website now lets you check for availability before actually cancelling your second appointment, and it seems that people are pretty consistently able to move their appointments forward by ~2 weeks. Go here, manage your appointments, put the details in, click "cancel and rebook appointment", and it shows you a list of availability at the vaccine centre where you're booked in before you actually have to cancel anything.
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Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

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Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

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The Archregimancy
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Postby The Archregimancy » Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:11 am

The Huskar Social Union wrote:Labour in Ceredigion want Wales to go it alone and ditch UK party

Its only one CLP so far but i thought this was interesting. The CLP in Ceredigion wants Welsh Labour to become its own independent party unaffiliated with the overall UK Labour party. I wonder if any other Welsh CLP's will follow suit with this.


I think that likely reflects the unique local intersection between the language divide in Welsh politics and the challenges faced by Labour in that specific constituency (which overlaps entirely with the county).

Plaid Cymru's heartlands are the majority Welsh-speaking areas; Ceredigion is c.50% Welsh-speaking and up until recently tended to alternate between PC and the LibDems (or at least had done since 1974). Labour, in contrast, are more or less nowhere in the seat. They briefly rose to third in 2017 with a rousing 20% of the vote, but that was the first - and only - time they'd done better than fourth since 1997. In 2019 they were back in fourth with 15.8% of the vote (and with the same candidate as 2017), and at least once recently came fifth (behind UKIP; in Wales).

So the local Labour Party in Ceredigion isn't particularly successful anyway, and is likely seeking a point of distinction that may allow them to compete from a position of fourth.

That's not quite the same as saying that this situation is irrelevant to the rest of Wales - only time will tell if this takes on any broader relevance - only that I think it's helpful at this stage to see this specific case through the prism of local politics rather than Wales-wide politics.

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The Huskar Social Union
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:13 am

The Archregimancy wrote:
The Huskar Social Union wrote:Labour in Ceredigion want Wales to go it alone and ditch UK party

Its only one CLP so far but i thought this was interesting. The CLP in Ceredigion wants Welsh Labour to become its own independent party unaffiliated with the overall UK Labour party. I wonder if any other Welsh CLP's will follow suit with this.


I think that likely reflects the unique local intersection between the language divide in Welsh politics and the challenges faced by Labour in that specific constituency (which overlaps entirely with the county).

Plaid Cymru's heartlands are the majority Welsh-speaking areas; Ceredigion is c.50% Welsh-speaking and up until recently tended to alternate between PC and the LibDems (or at least had done since 1974). Labour, in contrast, are more or less nowhere in the seat. They briefly rose to third in 2017 with a rousing 20% of the vote, but that was the first - and only - time they'd done better than fourth since 1997. In 2019 they were back in fourth with 15.8% of the vote (and with the same candidate as 2017), and at least once recently came fifth (behind UKIP; in Wales).

So the local Labour Party in Ceredigion isn't particularly successful anyway, and is likely seeking a point of distinction that may allow them to compete from a position of fourth.

That's not quite the same as saying that this situation is irrelevant to the rest of Wales - only time will tell if this takes on any broader relevance - only that I think it's helpful at this stage to see this specific case through the prism of local politics rather than Wales-wide politics.

Thank you for the info
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The Huskar Social Union
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:15 am

Stormont: 'No Sinn Féin shopping list' over first minister appointment

Sinn Féin will not be making any new demands during the process to nominate a first and deputy first minister, one of its MPs has said.

South Down MP Chris Hazzard said there was "no Sinn Féin shopping list" for fresh concessions from the Democratic Unionist Party (DUP).

Sir Jeffrey Donaldson is favourite to replace Edwin Poots as DUP leader and Paul Givan as first minister.

Nominations have opened with a new leader to be in place by next Saturday.

Sir Jeffrey has made it clear he would lead the party from Stormont as first minister, following the resignation of Mr Poots on Thursday after just three weeks in the job.

Mr Poots faced an internal party revolt after he agreed a deal with Sinn Féin and nominated a first minister.

This came after Westminster vowed to push through Irish language legislation in October, if Stormont fails to do so beforehand.

=CONTINUES=


SF are being clever again, they have stated they have no demands that need to be met for the appointment of the FM and DFM positions. I mean they dont really need to, they have seemingly got what they wanted when they outplayed the DUP over the Irish Language so they can sit back and try and take the high ground regarding a potential collapse of the executive.
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I like Miniature painting, Tanks, English Gals, Video games and most importantly Cheese.


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Dakini
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Postby Dakini » Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:16 am

The Archregimancy wrote:If you had asked me yesterday which British newspaper (excluding the Daily Star, mind) was least likely to cover the crisis currently facing British archaeology, the Daily Express likely would have come near the top of the list.

So colour me suitably surprised:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/14519 ... ohnson-spt

Even more surprising is that while the Express can't quite help being the Express and giving this a Brexit angle (which is not the focus of the Dig for Archaeology campaign), it's not covering Brexit positively in this one instance.

That said, the Dig for Archaeology campaign mentioned in the article is not party political, and has intentionally engaged with MPs from all of the major political parties. Conservative MP Tim Loughton is one of the campaign's public supporters (likely because he studied Mesopotamian archaeology at Cambridge, but there you go) and a majority of the All Party Parliamentary Group for Archaeology members from the Commons (15 out of 23) are Conservatives.

I find it really weird that a guy with a Classics degree like Johnson is going so hard against humanities degrees in general.

Like, I don't think that his degree really helps him in his current profession since my conception of Classics degrees is like "you learn the least useful historical stuff and some languages which are only useful because modern European languages borrow a lot from them" which doesn't seem especially relevant to modern politics or being prime minister, but a lot of humanities degrees are actually useful and interesting.

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SD_Film Artists
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Postby SD_Film Artists » Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:24 am

Dakini wrote:
The Archregimancy wrote:If you had asked me yesterday which British newspaper (excluding the Daily Star, mind) was least likely to cover the crisis currently facing British archaeology, the Daily Express likely would have come near the top of the list.

So colour me suitably surprised:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/14519 ... ohnson-spt

Even more surprising is that while the Express can't quite help being the Express and giving this a Brexit angle (which is not the focus of the Dig for Archaeology campaign), it's not covering Brexit positively in this one instance.

That said, the Dig for Archaeology campaign mentioned in the article is not party political, and has intentionally engaged with MPs from all of the major political parties. Conservative MP Tim Loughton is one of the campaign's public supporters (likely because he studied Mesopotamian archaeology at Cambridge, but there you go) and a majority of the All Party Parliamentary Group for Archaeology members from the Commons (15 out of 23) are Conservatives.

I find it really weird that a guy with a Classics degree like Johnson is going so hard against humanities degrees in general.

Like, I don't think that his degree really helps him in his current profession since my conception of Classics degrees is like "you learn the least useful historical stuff and some languages which are only useful because modern European languages borrow a lot from them" which doesn't seem especially relevant to modern politics or being prime minister, but a lot of humanities degrees are actually useful and interesting.


Bold of you to assume that subject snobbery is based on logic. Really what constitutes as a "micky mouse course" is age- if the person is used to the subject as a complicated field. Thus Latin is seen as classy while more practical subjects are either "vocational" or a "waste of time". We can read Shakespeare in our spare time and we can watch films in our spare time too, yet English Literature gets the OK while anything media based is a 'useless millennial thing'.

This does make me wonder why archaeology is under threat when it's not just a 'millennial thing'. Perhaps it's seen as too much of a victorian trope rather than a serious subject? "we've already got stuff in museums thank you"

My school had its priorities straight; the only games we could play on the Acorn computers were archeology games and we were happy for it... Until they upgraded to Windows XP and *someone* installed Dope Wars onto the school-wide server.
Last edited by SD_Film Artists on Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:44 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Postby Ifreann » Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:41 am

The Archregimancy wrote:If you had asked me yesterday which British newspaper (excluding the Daily Star, mind) was least likely to cover the crisis currently facing British archaeology, the Daily Express likely would have come near the top of the list.

So colour me suitably surprised:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/14519 ... ohnson-spt

Even more surprising is that while the Express can't quite help being the Express and giving this a Brexit angle (which is not the focus of the Dig for Archaeology campaign), it's not covering Brexit positively in this one instance.

That said, the Dig for Archaeology campaign mentioned in the article is not party political, and has intentionally engaged with MPs from all of the major political parties. Conservative MP Tim Loughton is one of the campaign's public supporters (likely because he studied Mesopotamian archaeology at Cambridge, but there you go) and a majority of the All Party Parliamentary Group for Archaeology members from the Commons (15 out of 23) are Conservatives.

I imagine the Express is still grateful to archaeologists for that time you found Richard III.
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Dakini
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Postby Dakini » Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:56 am

SD_Film Artists wrote:
Dakini wrote:I find it really weird that a guy with a Classics degree like Johnson is going so hard against humanities degrees in general.

Like, I don't think that his degree really helps him in his current profession since my conception of Classics degrees is like "you learn the least useful historical stuff and some languages which are only useful because modern European languages borrow a lot from them" which doesn't seem especially relevant to modern politics or being prime minister, but a lot of humanities degrees are actually useful and interesting.


Bold of you to assume that subject snobbery is based on logic. Really what constitutes as a "micky mouse course" is age- if the person is used to the subject as a complicated field. Thus Latin is seen as classy while more practical subjects are either "vocational" or a "waste of time". We can read Shakespeare in our spare time and we can watch films in our spare time too, yet English Literature gets the OK while anything media based is a 'useless millennial thing'.

This does make me wonder why archaeology is under threat when it's not just a 'millennial thing'. Perhaps it's seen as too much of a victorian trope rather than a serious subject? "we've already got stuff in museums thank you"

My school had its priorities straight; the only games we could play on the Acorn computers were archeology games and we were happy for it... Until they upgraded to Windows XP and *someone* installed Dope Wars onto the school-wide server.

I think that Boris Johnson has been shitting on all humanities degrees, not just archaeology and promoting STEM degrees instead (I've seen articles about cuts to history departments and English departments as well), so it's not even a snobbery thing where he's promoting Classics and English Literature and Fine Arts over Media Studies and Graphic Design and other things that are probably more practical for modern life.

I did get a STEM degree and I think that some STEM degrees are great for promoting critical thinking, problem solving and analytical skills, which imo, are the most important parts of a higher education, but not all of them do this and some churn out people who are just great at rote memorisation since that's what their courses emphasised. At the same time, a lot of humanities degrees can also get you there with critical thinking skills and all that.

Plus, there aren't infinite STEM jobs out there and there are a lot of jobs that are humanities related and even more jobs where it really doesn't matter what subject your degree is (or if you have a degree at all), as long as you're capable of communicating your ideas with others, solving problems and critically evaluating information you receive. Some other jobs require particular skills or knowledge which you might have picked up during your coursework, but a lot of it is going to be shit that you learn on the job.

Anyway, for all I know, Boris Johnson thinks that all humanities degrees are useless because his humanities degree is utterly fucking useless. He seems to have basically picked up Latin and ancient Greek, fuck-all else and has got by in life because he's rich and well-connected.
Last edited by Dakini on Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:00 am, edited 2 times in total.

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The Nihilistic view
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Postby The Nihilistic view » Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:27 am

SD_Film Artists wrote:
Dakini wrote:I find it really weird that a guy with a Classics degree like Johnson is going so hard against humanities degrees in general.

Like, I don't think that his degree really helps him in his current profession since my conception of Classics degrees is like "you learn the least useful historical stuff and some languages which are only useful because modern European languages borrow a lot from them" which doesn't seem especially relevant to modern politics or being prime minister, but a lot of humanities degrees are actually useful and interesting.


Bold of you to assume that subject snobbery is based on logic. Really what constitutes as a "micky mouse course" is age- if the person is used to the subject as a complicated field. Thus Latin is seen as classy while more practical subjects are either "vocational" or a "waste of time". We can read Shakespeare in our spare time and we can watch films in our spare time too, yet English Literature gets the OK while anything media based is a 'useless millennial thing'.

This does make me wonder why archaeology is under threat when it's not just a 'millennial thing'. Perhaps it's seen as too much of a victorian trope rather than a serious subject? "we've already got stuff in museums thank you"

My school had its priorities straight; the only games we could play on the Acorn computers were archeology games and we were happy for it... Until they upgraded to Windows XP and *someone* installed Dope Wars onto the school-wide server.



The only non mickey mouse subject is the psudoscience of finacial economics, it is obviously the most useful subject because it mixes maths and statistical analysis with the type of thinking skills you'd learn with the humanities with plenty of consideration on human behaviour.

Obviously I'm not biased at all.....
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Pasong Tirad
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Founded: May 31, 2007
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Postby Pasong Tirad » Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:33 am

The Huskar Social Union wrote:Stormont: 'No Sinn Féin shopping list' over first minister appointment

Sinn Féin will not be making any new demands during the process to nominate a first and deputy first minister, one of its MPs has said.

South Down MP Chris Hazzard said there was "no Sinn Féin shopping list" for fresh concessions from the Democratic Unionist Party (DUP).

Sir Jeffrey Donaldson is favourite to replace Edwin Poots as DUP leader and Paul Givan as first minister.

Nominations have opened with a new leader to be in place by next Saturday.

Sir Jeffrey has made it clear he would lead the party from Stormont as first minister, following the resignation of Mr Poots on Thursday after just three weeks in the job.

Mr Poots faced an internal party revolt after he agreed a deal with Sinn Féin and nominated a first minister.

This came after Westminster vowed to push through Irish language legislation in October, if Stormont fails to do so beforehand.

=CONTINUES=


SF are being clever again, they have stated they have no demands that need to be met for the appointment of the FM and DFM positions. I mean they dont really need to, they have seemingly got what they wanted when they outplayed the DUP over the Irish Language so they can sit back and try and take the high ground regarding a potential collapse of the executive.

So no snap election?

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The Archregimancy
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Founded: Aug 01, 2005
Democratic Socialists

Postby The Archregimancy » Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:35 am

On archaeology...

Obviously I'm approaching this from a particular position; I'm currently president of one of Europe's main period-based archaeology societies, and in that role I've spent a lot of time recently engaging with advocacy for archaeology in the UK. Obviously I'm also not a supporter of the Conservative Party.

But... I don't think the current crisis facing archaeology in the UK is the result of any deliberate targeting (which some of my more left-leaning colleagues have argued); I think it's simple incomprehension of the impact of a range of policies on a discipline that the current government doesn't see as particularly significant. Or, to tweak Hanlon's Razor, never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by ignorance.

Some of the challenges currently faced by archaeology include:

  • Cuts in public funding support for the historic environment.
  • A decline in the number of historic environment staff employed by local authorities.
  • Cuts in funding for arts and humanities university courses, notably archaeology.
  • Heritage/archaeology department closures and teaching redundancies at universities.
  • A decline in appropriately trained heritage professionals.
  • Proposed changes to planning requirements that may impact the need for heritage assessment prior to development.
  • The growing politicisation of public debates over the role of heritage interpretation.

Not all of these are within the direct remit of the government, and in some cases the government is taking steps to attempt to remedy individual challenges (for example, commercial archaeology units can sponsor archaeology staff for priority visas as it's classed as a field with a critical skills shortage). But most of those come from archaeology simply not being a priority in government thinking. For example, in recent consultation documentation over proposed 50% cuts to supplemental funding for select arts and humanities university courses, archaeology barely gets a mention despite being one of the impacted courses; the focus was very much on arts. Similarly, if you write to your (government party) MP in your society president role to raise concerns over that cut in funding (ahem), the standard reply letter sent out by the relevant government minister doesn't mention archaeology at all; the focus is entirely on what the government is doing to support the arts. So the discipline seems to be barely on the radar when it comes to government policy-making. It's death by a thousand unintentional cuts and the law of unintended consequences rather than a deliberate campaign.

Now, I don't doubt that there'll be a range of opinions in this thread over how important archaeology is, or should be, and fair enough. This isn't something I expect agreement over, and I recognise my special interest in the subject. I would merely note that archaeology currently plays a critical and underappreciated role in the UK planning process, as archaeological assessment is required in most cases before development can take place (which is why the largest archaeological excavation in the UK in recent years has been the HS2 route). It's not all academics finding kings in car parks because a slightly eccentric woman with a lot of money decides to stump up the cash. And it's this role in the planning process - commercial archaeology as an extension of construction and engineering - that's led to the field being designated as a critical skills shortage area eligible for priority work visas.
Last edited by The Archregimancy on Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:59 am, edited 2 times in total.

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The Nihilistic view
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Founded: May 14, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby The Nihilistic view » Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:48 am

My problem with Archeology is sitting out in a field for 2 months on a dig. CCF made me hate camping, otherwise I find it pretty intresting and will go see an active dig nearby. There was a dig at a roman site near me over a couple of summers that I visited a few times.

If you think about it properly, archeology is really the front line when it comes to history of any kind so it's probably the most important subject to protect in that area because it's often the starting point for our understanding of the past. So it should be the starting point for funding.
Slava Ukraini

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The Huskar Social Union
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Founded: Apr 04, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Huskar Social Union » Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:49 am

Pasong Tirad wrote:
The Huskar Social Union wrote:Stormont: 'No Sinn Féin shopping list' over first minister appointment



SF are being clever again, they have stated they have no demands that need to be met for the appointment of the FM and DFM positions. I mean they dont really need to, they have seemingly got what they wanted when they outplayed the DUP over the Irish Language so they can sit back and try and take the high ground regarding a potential collapse of the executive.

So no snap election?
Oh i think there is a strong possibility of a snap election happening given the DUP's demands that the ILA legislation needs to be changed or they will collapse the executive. However SF is being clever and doing what it can to put such a possibility completely on the doorstep of the DUP. They got what they wanted with the Irish Language and now turn around and go "we have no other demands" so it would be harder for Unionists to argue that SF collapsed the executive because of their concessions not being met.
Irish Nationalist from Belfast / Leftwing / Atheist / Alliance Party voter
"I never thought in terms of being a leader, i thought very simply in terms of helping people" - John Hume 1937 - 2020



I like Miniature painting, Tanks, English Gals, Video games and most importantly Cheese.


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Ifreann
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Posts: 163859
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:08 am

The Huskar Social Union wrote:
Pasong Tirad wrote:So no snap election?
Oh i think there is a strong possibility of a snap election happening given the DUP's demands that the ILA legislation needs to be changed or they will collapse the executive. However SF is being clever and doing what it can to put such a possibility completely on the doorstep of the DUP. They got what they wanted with the Irish Language and now turn around and go "we have no other demands" so it would be harder for Unionists to argue that SF collapsed the executive because of their concessions not being met.

Can't believe that radical Sinn Fein are collapsing the executive by getting everything they wanted and making no demands.
He/Him

beating the devil
we never run from the devil
we never summon the devil
we never hide from from the devil
we never

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The Huskar Social Union
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Posts: 59284
Founded: Apr 04, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Huskar Social Union » Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:10 am

Ifreann wrote:
The Huskar Social Union wrote:Oh i think there is a strong possibility of a snap election happening given the DUP's demands that the ILA legislation needs to be changed or they will collapse the executive. However SF is being clever and doing what it can to put such a possibility completely on the doorstep of the DUP. They got what they wanted with the Irish Language and now turn around and go "we have no other demands" so it would be harder for Unionists to argue that SF collapsed the executive because of their concessions not being met.

Can't believe that radical Sinn Fein are collapsing the executive by getting everything they wanted and making no demands.

The most radical of republican plans.
Irish Nationalist from Belfast / Leftwing / Atheist / Alliance Party voter
"I never thought in terms of being a leader, i thought very simply in terms of helping people" - John Hume 1937 - 2020



I like Miniature painting, Tanks, English Gals, Video games and most importantly Cheese.


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The Nihilistic view
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Posts: 11424
Founded: May 14, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby The Nihilistic view » Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:25 am

Just been microchiped, unsure whether I want to try and bring forward the second microchiping or not, not sure if that would result in skipping ahead of anybody significantly older than me or not.
Slava Ukraini

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