UK Politics Thread IX: Try turning the UK off and on again.

[Celritannia]

Starmer's communications director resigns after Labour's 4th place run in Chesham and Amersham

It's a Tory safe-seat (or was), only the Lib Dems would have been able to win it.
But to come in 4th place behind the Greens? Yeah, that is embarrassing.

[The Nihilistic view]

Imran Ahmad Khan, the Conservative MP for Wakefield, has been charged with a sexual assault on a 15 year old boy in 2008.

How does it take 13 years to charge someone with a crime?!

Because it wasn't reported for 12.

[The Nihilistic view]

Is there something wrong with the Crown Prosecution service?

[The Archregimancy]

Starmer's communications director resigns after Labour's 4th place run in Chesham and Amersham

It's a Tory safe-seat (or was), only the Lib Dems would have been able to win it.
But to come in 4th place behind the Greens? Yeah, that is embarrassing.

Just a quick reminder of this:

Just for context, while the Liberals and Liberal Democrats have traditionally come a distant second in the seat, they were hit badly by the coalition (as in so many constituencies). In 2015, the Liberal Democrats came fourth with only 9% of the vote, behind UKIP (who were second) and Labour; as recently as 2017, Labour came second with 20% of the vote.

[The Notorious Mad Jack]

There won't be enough Tory backbenchers to rebel, and the Government can put a party whip on the governing party.

This is why the whole notion of "But backbenchers are holding the government to account" is fucking stupid.

Why dont they just rebel? Why does everyone toe the party line on everything? Ignore the whip for once embarrass the government publicity by voting something down on the floor.

Because the last time there was a major rebellion by Conservative MPs they had the whip withdrawn, were kicked out the party, an election was called and none of them were re-elected.

[Salandriagado]

Well because people would see you as weak and unfit because you lost the governing majority. If I was a member of your party I’d run against you in a leadership election and most likely win

'How would I have lost the governing majority if I specifically told MP's there were no consequences for voting your conscience?

Because you wouldn't be able to pass anything, and therefore wouldn't have a governing majority.

[Salandriagado]

Then the Government could never get anything done if your own party keeps voting the government policies down.

To control the House of Commons, you have to have absolute control of your own party, otherwise, anyone in the house will smell weakness and lash out at the PM's inability to lead a functioning executive.

How would they never get anything done? if i told MP's they had free reign why would they vote everything down?

On any given issue, more than zero of them would. With just under half of the house generally being the opposition (who are unlikely to join you in your little political suicide session), that's enough to block everything.

[The Huskar Social Union]

First Minister Paul Givan told by party officers he must resign

DUP First Minister Paul Givan has been told by party officers that he will have to resign as Stormont’s leader.

However, he will remain in position at Stormont Castle until a new DUP leader is in place, party sources said. When Mr Givan steps down, Sinn Fein Deputy First Minister Michelle O’Neill will also be out of office.

The clock will then start ticking again with just seven days for Sinn Fein and the DUP to renominate. Otherwise, power-sharing will collapse with Northern Ireland likely facing an October election.

Sources said that the new DUP leader would immediately attempt to use their influence to make progress on the protocol when they took over.

Party insiders on Friday night said they expected nominations for the leadership to open at the start of next week, and to close by the end of the week. The party Executive would then meet to ratify the result the following week with the new leader in place by the end of June, an insider said. “It won’t be nowhere near as long and drawn out as the last time,” he added.

It is expected to be a coronation, not a contest, with the only candidate likely to be Sir Jeffrey Donaldson. He lost the leadership election to Mr Poots by 19 votes to 17 last month.

Speaking for the first time since his resignation, Mr Poots on Friday told the Belfast Telegraph that he had “nothing to say at this stage” about who he would be backing for leader.

Asked if he felt raw after losing the leadership, he smiled and said: “I’m absolutely fine. It’s a grand day and I’m doing my constituency business here in Lisburn and I’m very glad to be doing that to serve my constituents.”

Meanwhile, DUP Portadown councillor Darryn Causby, who was a key local Poots supporter, resigned from the party. In a Facebook post, he said: “At this stage I will continue to serve my community as an independent councillor.

“I will make a fuller statement at a later stage, however this is a political matter and not a personal one, I have many great friends in the party and I wish them well.”

Upper Bann MP Carla Lockhart said she was saddened to see Mr Causby leave. She posted a photograph on Facebook taken with him on Friday and wrote: “He really was a valued member of the DUP team in Upper Bann and an excellent worker and councillor for the Portadown community.

"Politics is never plain sailing and a day or a week can be a long time when you are a public representative. I spoke to him at length and understand the concerns he had, some of which I share myself.”

Sinn Fein Deputy First Minister Michelle O’Neill called for on the DUP to "get their act together" to ensure effective governance at Stormont. She said the party was at a "crossroads" and faced a choice of continuing to be "rights deniers" or joining the other four executive parties in delivering a "modern and progressive" agenda.

She said she had not spoken to Mr Givan or Mr Poots since his resignation. "I think the issues for the DUP are for the DUP, but where I'm concerned is where it impacts on day-to-day governance," Ms O'Neill said.

Asked about the prospect of an early Assembly election, she said: "It's hard to say what's going to happen next within the DUP, I hope that we are able to continue to share power.

"If we run to the end of the mandate, well and good, if there has to be an election before that, then we will fight that election."

Asked if she feared that the Government might renege on its pledge to legislate for the Irish language following Mr Poots’ resignation, she said she would “hold their feet to the fire on that issue”.

SDLP deputy leader Nichola Mallon expressed concern about London keeping its word on passing Irish language legislation.

“The first test is can this British Government be trusted? she asked.

"I don't know what they have given Sinn Fein in writing and I would be concerned if Sinn Fein was just taking the word of this British Government. We only have to look at their track record of keeping to their promises, when you look at the protocol.”

People Before Profit MLA Gerry Carroll called for an Assembly election. "Stormont has long lost control and the dysfunctionality at the heart of the DUP — who will soon have adopted a third party leader to try and stave off another crisis — demands a democratic election,” he said.

"It’s time to bring forward the 2022 election and remove authority from a dysfunctional, divisive, dinosaur party. It’s time to let the people have their say on the disgrace that is the DUP and the wider shambles at Stormont.”

So Paul Givan has been told by the party he will resign from his position as First Minister when a new DUP leader has been selected. Which means Michelle O'Neil will by extension stop being Deputy First Minister again and we begin the process all over again where the two main parties have 7 days to appoint a FM and DFM.

I think the DUP will take the jump and try and crash the NI Executive this time.


The TUV and other Loyalists are also telling the DUP to not appoint a new FM as long as the NI Protocol exists

[The Nihilistic view]

Why dont they just rebel? Why does everyone toe the party line on everything? Ignore the whip for once embarrass the government publicity by voting something down on the floor.

Because the last time there was a major rebellion by Conservative MPs they had the whip withdrawn, were kicked out the party, an election was called and none of them were re-elected.

How to purge your party of problem people.

[The Blaatschapen]

Because the last time there was a major rebellion by Conservative MPs they had the whip withdrawn, were kicked out the party, an election was called and none of them were re-elected.

How to purge your party of problem people.

Good thing that Stalin was never a tory, he has different methods of purging.

[The Nihilistic view]

How to purge your party of problem people.

Good thing that Stalin was never a tory, he has different methods of purging.

Good thing for Stalin, the party would have purged him first.

[The Nihilistic view]

How would they never get anything done? if i told MP's they had free reign why would they vote everything down?

On any given issue, more than zero of them would. With just under half of the house generally being the opposition (who are unlikely to join you in your little political suicide session), that's enough to block everything.

You'd probably find about 10% of bills have a majority where the MPs in favour are 100% satisfied with it. So yeah people voting for what they were happy with all the time would mean not a lot would get done.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

If only David Cameron had purged those Tory MPs who defied his three line whip over his refusal to hold a withdrawal referendum.

[Philjia]

First Minister Paul Givan told by party officers he must resign

DUP First Minister Paul Givan has been told by party officers that he will have to resign as Stormont’s leader.

However, he will remain in position at Stormont Castle until a new DUP leader is in place, party sources said. When Mr Givan steps down, Sinn Fein Deputy First Minister Michelle O’Neill will also be out of office.

The clock will then start ticking again with just seven days for Sinn Fein and the DUP to renominate. Otherwise, power-sharing will collapse with Northern Ireland likely facing an October election.

Sources said that the new DUP leader would immediately attempt to use their influence to make progress on the protocol when they took over.

Party insiders on Friday night said they expected nominations for the leadership to open at the start of next week, and to close by the end of the week. The party Executive would then meet to ratify the result the following week with the new leader in place by the end of June, an insider said. “It won’t be nowhere near as long and drawn out as the last time,” he added.

It is expected to be a coronation, not a contest, with the only candidate likely to be Sir Jeffrey Donaldson. He lost the leadership election to Mr Poots by 19 votes to 17 last month.

Speaking for the first time since his resignation, Mr Poots on Friday told the Belfast Telegraph that he had “nothing to say at this stage” about who he would be backing for leader.

Asked if he felt raw after losing the leadership, he smiled and said: “I’m absolutely fine. It’s a grand day and I’m doing my constituency business here in Lisburn and I’m very glad to be doing that to serve my constituents.”

Meanwhile, DUP Portadown councillor Darryn Causby, who was a key local Poots supporter, resigned from the party. In a Facebook post, he said: “At this stage I will continue to serve my community as an independent councillor.

“I will make a fuller statement at a later stage, however this is a political matter and not a personal one, I have many great friends in the party and I wish them well.”

Upper Bann MP Carla Lockhart said she was saddened to see Mr Causby leave. She posted a photograph on Facebook taken with him on Friday and wrote: “He really was a valued member of the DUP team in Upper Bann and an excellent worker and councillor for the Portadown community.

"Politics is never plain sailing and a day or a week can be a long time when you are a public representative. I spoke to him at length and understand the concerns he had, some of which I share myself.”

Sinn Fein Deputy First Minister Michelle O’Neill called for on the DUP to "get their act together" to ensure effective governance at Stormont. She said the party was at a "crossroads" and faced a choice of continuing to be "rights deniers" or joining the other four executive parties in delivering a "modern and progressive" agenda.

She said she had not spoken to Mr Givan or Mr Poots since his resignation. "I think the issues for the DUP are for the DUP, but where I'm concerned is where it impacts on day-to-day governance," Ms O'Neill said.

Asked about the prospect of an early Assembly election, she said: "It's hard to say what's going to happen next within the DUP, I hope that we are able to continue to share power.

"If we run to the end of the mandate, well and good, if there has to be an election before that, then we will fight that election."

Asked if she feared that the Government might renege on its pledge to legislate for the Irish language following Mr Poots’ resignation, she said she would “hold their feet to the fire on that issue”.

SDLP deputy leader Nichola Mallon expressed concern about London keeping its word on passing Irish language legislation.

“The first test is can this British Government be trusted? she asked.

"I don't know what they have given Sinn Fein in writing and I would be concerned if Sinn Fein was just taking the word of this British Government. We only have to look at their track record of keeping to their promises, when you look at the protocol.”

People Before Profit MLA Gerry Carroll called for an Assembly election. "Stormont has long lost control and the dysfunctionality at the heart of the DUP — who will soon have adopted a third party leader to try and stave off another crisis — demands a democratic election,” he said.

"It’s time to bring forward the 2022 election and remove authority from a dysfunctional, divisive, dinosaur party. It’s time to let the people have their say on the disgrace that is the DUP and the wider shambles at Stormont.”

So Paul Givan has been told by the party he will resign from his position as First Minister when a new DUP leader has been selected. Which means Michelle O'Neil will by extension stop being Deputy First Minister again and we begin the process all over again where the two main parties have 7 days to appoint a FM and DFM.

I think the DUP will take the jump and try and crash the NI Executive this time.


The TUV and other Loyalists are also telling the DUP to not appoint a new FM as long as the NI Protocol exists

The government in Westminster has already shown they're willing to give concessions to the EU and Sinn Fein, the DUP won't achieve anything by refusing to participate.

[San Lumen]

Why dont they just rebel? Why does everyone toe the party line on everything? Ignore the whip for once embarrass the government publicity by voting something down on the floor.

Because the last time there was a major rebellion by Conservative MPs they had the whip withdrawn, were kicked out the party, an election was called and none of them were re-elected.

What do you mean by whip withdrawn?

[The Notorious Mad Jack]

Because the last time there was a major rebellion by Conservative MPs they had the whip withdrawn, were kicked out the party, an election was called and none of them were re-elected.

What do you mean by whip withdrawn?

Were no longer allowed to sit as members of the Conservative Party in the House of Commons.

[The Nihilistic view]

If only David Cameron had purged those Tory MPs who defied his three line whip over his refusal to hold a withdrawal referendum.

He couldn't, different situation. No majority and didn't have the political winds that would have led to a majority after that action.

This is what separates good political operators from bad ones. 400 odd constituencies were in leave areas in 2019 and the brexit voters in those areas were afraid the establishment was going to stop brexit. The party was/is heavily pro brexit and you were gonig into the election as the only real party for brexit with the brexit party only standing against remainer MPs. So you can afford to get rid remainer MPs that won't take the hint and the party, your voters and the even the brexit party voters will take it as a sign you mean buisness.

For Cameron it's almost the exact opposite, you remove referendum supporting MPs in a party who's members want a referendum and who are voting for UKIP in increasing numbers all you do is make sure you aren't going to win an election again. So he can't get rid of said MPs because he then becomes a dead man walking. He had no choice really and the eventual offer to hold a referendum is one of the main reasons he won in 2015, perhaps he did underestimate the strength of feeling on the issue but in fairness the only real mistake he made was campaigning to stay in. He should have said they won't give me a good enough deal so we should leave. Everything else before that was the better choice or the only choice depending on the event.

Also this isn't just on the respective leaders, it's also pertinent as to whether the respective rebels understand how strong a hand they have. The ERG had a very strong hand for much of the last 10 years whilst the MPs that had the whip removed over brexit pretty much had no legs to stand on.

[Souseiseki]

the chaos of weak government was good because it meant the system of 5 year dictatorships was non-viable and parliament actually mattered

you could almost see MPs thinking about taking control of the system instead of letting the government continue down the path of acting like it's the king and handing down dictats

of course since there are way too many MPs suffering from a mix of cowardice and learned helplessness they did not and they're back to licking the whip

but it was nice to think about it

[The Nihilistic view]

the chaos of weak government was good because it meant the system of 5 year dictatorships was non-viable and parliament actually mattered

you could almost see MPs thinking about taking control of the system instead of letting the government continue down the path of acting like it's the king and handing down dictats

of course since there are way too many MPs suffering from a mix of cowardice and learned helplessness they did not and they're back to licking the whip

but it was nice to think about it

They did take control, however the only thing they showed after taking control was that they were even more chaotic left to their own devices and couldn't agree on anything.

[Souseiseki]

the chaos of weak government was good because it meant the system of 5 year dictatorships was non-viable and parliament actually mattered

you could almost see MPs thinking about taking control of the system instead of letting the government continue down the path of acting like it's the king and handing down dictats

of course since there are way too many MPs suffering from a mix of cowardice and learned helplessness they did not and they're back to licking the whip

but it was nice to think about it

They did take control, however the only thing they showed after taking control was that they were even more chaotic left to their own devices and couldn't agree on anything.

this is true, however, i would assert that this happened specifically because they were so used to just ramming things through using force of numbers without having to bother negotiating with the "losers" so when they lost this ability they were lost. they need time to acclimate to real politics.

[The Huskar Social Union]

First Minister Paul Givan told by party officers he must resign



So Paul Givan has been told by the party he will resign from his position as First Minister when a new DUP leader has been selected. Which means Michelle O'Neil will by extension stop being Deputy First Minister again and we begin the process all over again where the two main parties have 7 days to appoint a FM and DFM.

I think the DUP will take the jump and try and crash the NI Executive this time.


The TUV and other Loyalists are also telling the DUP to not appoint a new FM as long as the NI Protocol exists

The government in Westminster has already shown they're willing to give concessions to the EU and Sinn Fein, the DUP won't achieve anything by refusing to participate.

They are desperate.

They are haemorrhaging voters and risk losing numerous seats in an election. They are also being attacked by Loyalists repeatedly and are probably looking for a way to present a strong front and possibly get some voters back, or at least prevent more from leaving.

That or they are just idiots.

[Heloin]

Because the last time there was a major rebellion by Conservative MPs they had the whip withdrawn, were kicked out the party, an election was called and none of them were re-elected.

What do you mean by whip withdrawn?

Dr Jones was asked to put it away.

[Ifreann]

The government in Westminster has already shown they're willing to give concessions to the EU and Sinn Fein, the DUP won't achieve anything by refusing to participate.

They are desperate.

They are haemorrhaging voters and risk losing numerous seats in an election. They are also being attacked by Loyalists repeatedly and are probably looking for a way to present a strong front and possibly get some voters back, or at least prevent more from leaving.

That or they are just idiots.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Survation Poll for Batley and Spen has the Conservatives as largest party on 47% with Labour on 41%. However it is a phone survey with a small polling sample of only 510 people so not the best survey really.

[Kavagrad]

Survation Poll for Batley and Spen has the Conservatives as largest party on 47% with Labour on 41%. However it is a phone survey with a small polling sample of only 510 people so not the best survey really.

As seen in Hartlepool, the fact that constituency polling is a bit tricky isn't necessarily good news for anyone in particular.

Side note: if Galloway really is making these sorts of inroads with a couple of weeks to go, this one'll go Tory.