UK Politics Thread IX: Try turning the UK off and on again.

[Ostroeuropa]

What if Labour's current level of support is only because of FPTP? And under PR nobody would vote for them?

Under PR Labour would almost certainly split into a party of the Labour left and a party of the Labour right, who only currently stay together because FPTP encourages them to try to crush the other internally so people can only vote for their policies or a minor party.

Labour right would probably be swept up by the Lib Dems.
Labour left would be a new socialist party.

Following that, there would also be a diminishing of both as a Nationalist Labour equivalent emerged, which would also diminish the Tories. "social conservative, economic socialist" is the largest group in the country.

https://capx.co/the-real-centre-of-brit ... you-think/

[Philjia]

Under PR Labour would almost certainly split into a party of the Labour left and a party of the Labour right, who only currently stay together because FPTP encourages them to try to crush the other internally so people can only vote for their policies or a minor party.

Labour right would probably be swept up by the Lib Dems.

The Lib Dems would have a good chance of absorbing their voters, but the politicians may find the Lib Dems too left leaning for their tastes.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Do Britons approve or disapprove of the UK Government's plan to require voters to show photo ID when voting at the next general election?

Approve: 52%
Disapprove: 23%
Neither: 21%

Approval is highest among those aged 25-34 (63%) and 65+ (59%).

[The Huskar Social Union]

New border poll survey reveals 53% of people in NI want to stay in the UK

Nearly 53 percent of voters in Northern Ireland would opt to stay with the UK in a border poll, according to a new survey

The latest Northern Ireland Life and Times (NILT) Survey has revealed that 30 percent of voters here would opt for a united Ireland.

It also found that 17 percent of Catholics want Northern Ireland to remain in the UK.

Meanwhile, nine percent surveyed fell into the “don’t know” category when asked if Northern Ireland should unify with the Republic or remain in the UK.

This means, based on this poll’s results, that even if all those unsure eventually decided to opt for Irish unity the pro united Ireland figure would still be 39 percent.

The NILT survey also found that a majority of those who say they have no religion here support the union at 48 per cent, while 32 percent of those in the same category back a united Ireland.

This poll was carried out between October 8 and December 8 last year and they surveyed 1,292 adults aged 18 or over. The polling is organised by both the University of Ulster and Queen’s University, Belfast.

=CONTINUES=

Note that this took place before the implementation of the NI Protocol and the political fallout that followed it. But its still an article worth reading.

Lucidtalks Spotlight polling i posted about here a few weeks back was done since the implementation of the Protocol if you want something that might be a bit more up to date.

[The Nihilistic view]

Do Britons approve or disapprove of the UK Government's plan to require voters to show photo ID when voting at the next general election?

Approve: 52%
Disapprove: 23%
Neither: 21%

Approval is highest among those aged 25-34 (63%) and 65+ (59%).

That's a funny age group to be highest. I guess they are beginning the transition into Tory voters.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Do Britons approve or disapprove of the UK Government's plan to require voters to show photo ID when voting at the next general election?

Approve: 52%
Disapprove: 23%
Neither: 21%

Approval is highest among those aged 25-34 (63%) and 65+ (59%).

That's a funny age group to be highest. I guess they are beginning the transition into Tory voters.

I use id every time i got to vote. I mentioned it on here before that we have electoral cards here in NI and i got mine made for me in School and it was a fairly straightforward process.

[Dakini]

That's a funny age group to be highest. I guess they are beginning the transition into Tory voters.

I use id every time i got to vote. I mentioned it on here before that we have electoral cards here in NI and i got mine made for me in School and it was a fairly straightforward process.

When I was living in the UK I never showed ID at the polls. I'm not even sure they looked at my polling card, they just asked for my address and name.

Maybe my local poll employees were more trusting.

[Fartsniffage]

I use id every time i got to vote. I mentioned it on here before that we have electoral cards here in NI and i got mine made for me in School and it was a fairly straightforward process.

When I was living in the UK I never showed ID at the polls. I'm not even sure they looked at my polling card, they just asked for my address and name.

Maybe my local poll employees were more trusting.

That's normal on the mainland. The rules in NI are different.

[Dakini]

When I was living in the UK I never showed ID at the polls. I'm not even sure they looked at my polling card, they just asked for my address and name.

Maybe my local poll employees were more trusting.

That's normal on the mainland. The rules in NI are different.

Ah, fair enough. It's still shitty to require actual ID when the problem it purports to solve is basically non-existent and obtaining ID costs money, which effectively makes the ID requirement a poll tax.

While I did have a driving license with my name and address, I only had that because my Canadian license couldn't be renewed remotely so I had to convert to a UK license while I was there. My partner always had to cobble together proof of address with his biometric immigration card and our council tax form. Since UK citizens don't have a biometric immigration card, I imagine there are a lot of people who don't have any kind of photo ID at all.

[Fartsniffage]

That's normal on the mainland. The rules in NI are different.

Ah, fair enough. It's still shitty to require actual ID when the problem it purports to solve is basically non-existent and obtaining ID costs money, which effectively makes the ID requirement a poll tax.

While I did have a driving license with my name and address, I only had that because my Canadian license couldn't be renewed remotely so I had to convert to a UK license while I was there. My partner always had to cobble together proof of address with his biometric immigration card and our council tax form. Since UK citizens don't have a biometric immigration card, I imagine there are a lot of people who don't have any kind of photo ID at all.

Bah. Brother just got refused a Canadian driving licence because his picture card was out of date even though he had his paper licence that never goes out of date. He had his in date passport too.

[Dakini]

Ah, fair enough. It's still shitty to require actual ID when the problem it purports to solve is basically non-existent and obtaining ID costs money, which effectively makes the ID requirement a poll tax.

While I did have a driving license with my name and address, I only had that because my Canadian license couldn't be renewed remotely so I had to convert to a UK license while I was there. My partner always had to cobble together proof of address with his biometric immigration card and our council tax form. Since UK citizens don't have a biometric immigration card, I imagine there are a lot of people who don't have any kind of photo ID at all.

Bah. Brother just got refused a Canadian driving licence because his picture card was out of date even though he had his paper licence that never goes out of date. He had his in date passport too.

My driving license wasn't expired when I traded it for a UK one. It was a few weeks away from expiring, but then I had to reapply because my immigration card was expiring around the same time, but they sent a letter explaining the situation which I sent with my re-application and they accepted it because I had tried to apply before my license expired.

Basically, the DVLA went like "we see that you have immigration issues, so we can't give you a license, but we'll let you reapply once that is sorted out" and then they gave me a license once I sorted it out.

I never actually used it though because driving on the left side of the road is mildly terrifying. I managed with a bicycle, but even then the first few times I'd accidentally make a turn and end up on the right side of the road (only on small side roads though, whenever there were cars it was obvious enough what to and the stakes were much higher do so I didn't make that mistake (the brakes being swapped took even more getting used to and I always signaled in North American style because I never got the hang of taking my right hand off the handlebars while in motion)).

[The Free Joy State]

When I was living in the UK I never showed ID at the polls. I'm not even sure they looked at my polling card, they just asked for my address and name.

Maybe my local poll employees were more trusting.

That's normal on the mainland. The rules in NI are different.

I just think they should just make it mandatory to take your polling card. Everyone gets sent it (so it isn't a barrier to anyone voting), and -- while your other information may fall into fraudsters' hands (including photo ID; unless they're going to have airport technology there to check for forged and stolen passports¹) -- it's highly unlikely your polling number will (so it's not easily forgeable).

1. Making this a more expensive "solution" to something that research shows isn't a problem here.

[The Nihilistic view]

Bah. Brother just got refused a Canadian driving licence because his picture card was out of date even though he had his paper licence that never goes out of date. He had his in date passport too.

My driving license wasn't expired when I traded it for a UK one. It was a few weeks away from expiring, but then I had to reapply because my immigration card was expiring around the same time, but they sent a letter explaining the situation which I sent with my re-application and they accepted it because I had tried to apply before my license expired.

Basically, the DVLA went like "we see that you have immigration issues, so we can't give you a license, but we'll let you reapply once that is sorted out" and then they gave me a license once I sorted it out.

I never actually used it though because driving on the left side of the road is mildly terrifying. I managed with a bicycle, but even then the first few times I'd accidentally make a turn and end up on the right side of the road (only on small side roads though, whenever there were cars it was obvious enough what to and the stakes were much higher do so I didn't make that mistake (the brakes being swapped took even more getting used to and I always signaled in North American style because I never got the hang of taking my right hand off the handlebars while in motion)).

I don't know how they differ, but you got to remember UK drivers (should) have learnt their hand signals a certain way so maybe a bit risky using a system they won't have learnt. Hopefully there is nothing terribly confusing between the two.

[Dakini]

My driving license wasn't expired when I traded it for a UK one. It was a few weeks away from expiring, but then I had to reapply because my immigration card was expiring around the same time, but they sent a letter explaining the situation which I sent with my re-application and they accepted it because I had tried to apply before my license expired.

Basically, the DVLA went like "we see that you have immigration issues, so we can't give you a license, but we'll let you reapply once that is sorted out" and then they gave me a license once I sorted it out.

I never actually used it though because driving on the left side of the road is mildly terrifying. I managed with a bicycle, but even then the first few times I'd accidentally make a turn and end up on the right side of the road (only on small side roads though, whenever there were cars it was obvious enough what to and the stakes were much higher do so I didn't make that mistake (the brakes being swapped took even more getting used to and I always signaled in North American style because I never got the hang of taking my right hand off the handlebars while in motion)).

I don't know how they differ, but you got to remember UK drivers (should) have learnt their hand signals a certain way so maybe a bit risky using a system they won't have learnt. Hopefully there is nothing terribly confusing between the two.

Well, the UK has a lot of hand signals that don't exist in Canada, but the turning signals are the ones I was using and they're basically the same except in the UK you do them with your right hand and in Canada, you use your left.

[The Nihilistic view]

I don't know how they differ, but you got to remember UK drivers (should) have learnt their hand signals a certain way so maybe a bit risky using a system they won't have learnt. Hopefully there is nothing terribly confusing between the two.

Well, the UK has a lot of hand signals that don't exist in Canada, but the turning signals are the ones I was using and they're basically the same except in the UK you do them with your right hand and in Canada, you use your left.

That's not too bad, wouldn't want you to get rear ended by a lorry when you are going straight on when they think you are going right or something!

[Vassenor]

Andrea Jenkyns MP (CON) decides to lose her mind at a group of students democratically deciding they no longer want to engage in performative patriotism. Conveniently this has been timed to deflect attention away from the announcement that the High Court ruled the government acted unlawfully in its awarding of contracts to donors.

[Dakini]

Well, the UK has a lot of hand signals that don't exist in Canada, but the turning signals are the ones I was using and they're basically the same except in the UK you do them with your right hand and in Canada, you use your left.

That's not too bad, wouldn't want you to get rear ended by a lorry when you are going straight on when they think you are going right or something!

tbh, Edinburgh has a reasonably well connected set of protected cycling lanes (especially in the last year as the council started adding more space for pedestrians and cyclists during the pandemic) and some reasonable trails so I stuck to those as much as possible.

[Dakini]

Andrea Jenkyns MP (CON) decides to lose her mind at a group of students democratically deciding they no longer want to engage in performative patriotism. Conveniently this has been timed to deflect attention away from the announcement that the High Court ruled the government acted unlawfully in its awarding of contracts to donors.

What kind of weirdo 1. has a picture of the Queen displayed in their home 2. puts ribbons on their picture frames and 3. gives a shit about how some grad students at Oxford decide to decorate their common room?

[Vassenor]

Andrea Jenkyns MP (CON) decides to lose her mind at a group of students democratically deciding they no longer want to engage in performative patriotism. Conveniently this has been timed to deflect attention away from the announcement that the High Court ruled the government acted unlawfully in its awarding of contracts to donors.

What kind of weirdo 1. has a picture of the Queen displayed in their home 2. puts ribbons on their picture frames and 3. gives a shit about how some grad students at Oxford decide to decorate their common room?

That's the thing about flag shagging and other acts of performative patriotism. It's fundamentally divorced from reality.

[The Free Joy State]

Andrea Jenkyns MP (CON) decides to lose her mind at a group of students democratically deciding they no longer want to engage in performative patriotism. Conveniently this has been timed to deflect attention away from the announcement that the High Court ruled the government acted unlawfully in its awarding of contracts to donors.

What kind of weirdo 1. has a picture of the Queen displayed in their home 2. puts ribbons on their picture frames and 3. gives a shit about how some grad students at Oxford decide to decorate their common room?

If that is what she wants in her private home, that's her business (though that ribbon is ugly), as it is within the students' right to remove a portrait that the previous group of students had elected to put up in their own common room.

But expecting others to conform to her personal ideas of décor does start to have... overtones.

On the positive side, at least she also didn't have a garland-framed image of Boris Johnson -- then we would be up shit creek without a paddle.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

My family are mainly English/Welsh and at least one Irish ancestor. I don't identify as English or British. I usually just feel like an outsider wherever I am.

[The Nihilistic view]

Andrea Jenkyns MP (CON) decides to lose her mind at a group of students democratically deciding they no longer want to engage in performative patriotism. Conveniently this has been timed to deflect attention away from the announcement that the High Court ruled the government acted unlawfully in its awarding of contracts to donors.

What kind of weirdo 1. has a picture of the Queen displayed in their home 2. puts ribbons on their picture frames and 3. gives a shit about how some grad students at Oxford decide to decorate their common room?

I'll have to complain to party HQ about that, should be a picture of Thatcher not the queen.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Andrea Jenkyns MP (CON) decides to lose her mind at a group of students democratically deciding they no longer want to engage in performative patriotism. Conveniently this has been timed to deflect attention away from the announcement that the High Court ruled the government acted unlawfully in its awarding of contracts to donors.

What kind of weirdo 1. has a picture of the Queen displayed in their home 2. puts ribbons on their picture frames and 3. gives a shit about how some grad students at Oxford decide to decorate their common room?

One or two of the Unionists i talked to at Uni said members of their family had portraits of the Queen etc framed in their houses. Typically older people.

From what i understand its a somewhat common thing in some loyalist areas.

Never heard or seen of anything outside of NI doing it though.

[The Nihilistic view]

What kind of weirdo 1. has a picture of the Queen displayed in their home 2. puts ribbons on their picture frames and 3. gives a shit about how some grad students at Oxford decide to decorate their common room?

One or two of the Unionists i talked to at Uni said members of their family had portraits of the Queen etc framed in their houses. Typically older people.

From what i understand its a somewhat common thing in some loyalist areas.

Never heard or seen of anything outside of NI doing it though.

It's normally things like jubilee plates etc rather than actual pictures.

[Old Tyrannia]

A group of university students removing a portrait of Her Majesty from one room doesn't really bother me at all, but the justification given for doing so- that a portrait of our head of state is in some way a "symbol of colonialism"- does. If a portrait of the Queen is regarded as offensive to some people in the context of a students' common room at a university, then surely it is equally offensive in any other public context; and if that's the case, then surely the same is true of any other symbol of the British state- whether that's the Union Flag, the national anthem, the coat of arms or whatever. That's why the "symbol of colonialism" argument can't go unchallenged. If it does then the anti-British left will push it as far as they can until public spaces have been purged of any distinctively British imagery at all. Unfortunately the left have a well-honed tactic of taking blatantly provocative actions and then feigning surprise when they receive pushback for it, painting those who react as the unreasonable ones. Naturally there will be some fake patriots who seek to win political points with bluster like "how dare they take down the Queen's portrait!", but that's not the real issue.

And for what it's worth, if Ms Jenkyns is a "weirdo" for having a portrait of the Queen on display in their home then I can't imagine what Dakini and co would make of me for having a portrait of King Ludwig II of Bavaria and an icon of the Romanov family on my shelf.