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UK Politics Thread IX: Try turning the UK off and on again.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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British v Not. How do you identify?

European
19
14%
British
33
24%
Scottish
6
4%
English
19
14%
Welsh
5
4%
Irish
5
4%
Ulster/Northern Irish
1
1%
Regional Identity (Yorkshire, Lancastrian, Londoner, etc).
14
10%
I'm a dirty foreigner
37
27%
 
Total votes : 139

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Celritannia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Celritannia » Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:31 am

Old Tyrannia wrote:
The Blaatschapen wrote:
No, not fair enough.

What dangers do progressive left wingers pose to current society? And if we are ostrocising them, should we then do the same (/more) for the far right, if they pose similar dangers?

We already ostracise the far-right. There are serious social consequences from expressing far-right views publically. On the other hand, radical left-wingers enjoy a near monopoly on positions within certain sectors of society, particularly academia, the publishing establishment, and televised media. That's why there is more open violence fromthe far-right than the far-left. The former lacks meaningful societal and institutional power, so open violence is one of the few resorts available to them to impose their will on others and make their views known. For the far-left, there is much to lose and little to gain from open violence; it's safer and more effective to advance their goals through institutional power as the Oxford academics opposed to Rhodes' statue are doing.


"Radical left wingers"? Please explain.

Also, the televised media is left wing? That's news to me.
Last edited by Celritannia on Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Vassenor
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Vassenor » Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:36 am

Celritannia wrote:
Old Tyrannia wrote:We already ostracise the far-right. There are serious social consequences from expressing far-right views publically. On the other hand, radical left-wingers enjoy a near monopoly on positions within certain sectors of society, particularly academia, the publishing establishment, and televised media. That's why there is more open violence fromthe far-right than the far-left. The former lacks meaningful societal and institutional power, so open violence is one of the few resorts available to them to impose their will on others and make their views known. For the far-left, there is much to lose and little to gain from open violence; it's safer and more effective to advance their goals through institutional power as the Oxford academics opposed to Rhodes' statue are doing.


"Radical left wingers"? Please explain.

Also, the televised media is left wing? That's news to me.


Apparently going to bat for the Conservatives and running planted stories for them is left wing now.
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CoraSpia
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Postby CoraSpia » Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:51 am

Not sure how this hasn't come up yet, but a woman who posted comments suggesting that a person couldn't change their sex has won her appeal against her dismissal from a job with a thinktank.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57426579

The regulars know what I think about this by now, people shouldn't face disciplinary action at work for things they do that aren't at work or when actively representing the employer.
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Philjia
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Philjia » Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:27 am

CoraSpia wrote:Not sure how this hasn't come up yet, but a woman who posted comments suggesting that a person couldn't change their sex has won her appeal against her dismissal from a job with a thinktank.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57426579

The regulars know what I think about this by now, people shouldn't face disciplinary action at work for things they do that aren't at work or when actively representing the employer.

This is untrue, what she's actually won is the right to go back to the tribunal.
The judgement also states that deliberate misgendering is unequivocally harassment so it's a pretty big L for TERFs.
Last edited by Philjia on Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:30 am

CoraSpia wrote:Not sure how this hasn't come up yet, but a woman who posted comments suggesting that a person couldn't change their sex has won her appeal against her dismissal from a job with a thinktank.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57426579

The regulars know what I think about this by now, people shouldn't face disciplinary action at work for things they do that aren't at work or when actively representing the employer.

Maya Forstater wasn't dismissed from her job, her contract ended and wasn't renewed. I would have thought that you'd be strongly opposed to efforts to force a business to renew a contract with someone it doesn't want to employ.
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The Nihilistic view
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Moralistic Democracy

Postby The Nihilistic view » Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:13 am

The Blaatschapen wrote:
The Huskar Social Union wrote:Fair enough, was just curious.


No, not fair enough.

What dangers do progressive left wingers pose to current society? And if we are ostrocising them, should we then do the same (/more) for the far right, if they pose similar dangers?


Apparently denying people who have nothing to do with a decision an education. How progressive.
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The Nihilistic view
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Moralistic Democracy

Postby The Nihilistic view » Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:36 am

They should all get fired to be honest, not directly for the action but because of what the action represents. They are supposed to be intelligent people, they are supposed to be educating people on things like logic, rationality along with whatever subject they teach. Where is the logic in what they have decided to do?

It's illegal to remove the statue as it's listed, the person you have to appeal to for it to be de-listed is the secretary of state for culture. The government aren't going to agree with an appeal. The decision taken by the college (not the undergrad students) recognised this fact that at the moment there is no prospect of getting the statue removed. So they would spend a lot of money to get nowhere. So you can't remove the statue. Idiot fuckhead academics though decide not only to ignore that removal of the statue would be illegal but that the decision by the college not to break the law should be taken out on the undergraduates that had nothing to do with the decision.

With genius like that one wonders how Oxford is still at the top of world league tables because frankly the group logic fail involved in both parts of this action is almost unbelievable for a group of people supposed to be intelligent and worthy of teaching at a top university. But that's what progressivism seems to do to people, it can turn intelligent people into absolute loons with no ability to be rational and proportional.
Last edited by The Nihilistic view on Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Antigua and Barbuda, Australia, The Bahamas, Bahrain, Barbados, Belize, Botswana, Brunei, Bangladesh, Cook Islands, Canada, Cyprus, Dominica, Egypt, France, Fiji, The Gambia, Ghana, Grenada, Guyana, India, Israel, Iraq, Ireland, Jamaica, Jordan, Kenya, Kiribati, Kuwait, Lesotho, Malawi, Malaysia, Singapore, Maldives, Malta, Mauritius, Myanmar, Nauru, New Zealand, Niue, Namibia, Nigeria, Pakistan, Qatar, Saint Lucia, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Seychelles, Sierra Leone, Solomon Islands, South Africa, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Swaziland, Tanzania, Trinidad and Tobago, Tuvalu, Uganda, United Arab Emirates, United States, Vanuatu, Yemen, Zambia, Zimbabwe are UNITED KINGDOM!!!
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CoraSpia
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Founded: Mar 01, 2014
Anarchy

Postby CoraSpia » Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:35 am

Philjia wrote:
CoraSpia wrote:Not sure how this hasn't come up yet, but a woman who posted comments suggesting that a person couldn't change their sex has won her appeal against her dismissal from a job with a thinktank.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57426579

The regulars know what I think about this by now, people shouldn't face disciplinary action at work for things they do that aren't at work or when actively representing the employer.

This is untrue, what she's actually won is the right to go back to the tribunal.
The judgement also states that deliberate misgendering is unequivocally harassment so it's a pretty big L for TERFs.

A tribunal explicitly told that its wrong generally makes a different decision the second time around for obvious reasons. The trip back to the tribunal is often a formality in preparation for the next appeal, only one from the other side. I don't know why they do it, it's stupid that they do it, it wastes everyones time, why do they do it, they should stop doing it.
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Vassenor
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Vassenor » Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:36 am

CoraSpia wrote:
Philjia wrote:This is untrue, what she's actually won is the right to go back to the tribunal.
The judgement also states that deliberate misgendering is unequivocally harassment so it's a pretty big L for TERFs.

A tribunal explicitly told that its wrong generally makes a different decision the second time around for obvious reasons. The trip back to the tribunal is often a formality in preparation for the next appeal, only one from the other side. I don't know why they do it, it's stupid that they do it, it wastes everyones time, why do they do it, they should stop doing it.


So how can she win the second tribunal with all the clarifications the ruling made that what she did is in fact not OK?
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CoraSpia
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Postby CoraSpia » Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:37 am

Ifreann wrote:
CoraSpia wrote:Not sure how this hasn't come up yet, but a woman who posted comments suggesting that a person couldn't change their sex has won her appeal against her dismissal from a job with a thinktank.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57426579

The regulars know what I think about this by now, people shouldn't face disciplinary action at work for things they do that aren't at work or when actively representing the employer.

Maya Forstater wasn't dismissed from her job, her contract ended and wasn't renewed. I would have thought that you'd be strongly opposed to efforts to force a business to renew a contract with someone it doesn't want to employ.

I would have been, 2 years ago. As I've said recently, my views have changed quite a lot over the course of the pandemic. If we must restrict businesses to prevent political discrimination, especially in such a bad job market, then so be it.
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The Notorious Mad Jack
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Democratic Socialists

Postby The Notorious Mad Jack » Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:14 am

There is something incredible about how this government, upon negotiating, signing and fighting an election on the Northern Ireland protocol and the 'oven ready' Brexit deal, is now demanding - and in some cases unilaterally making - changes to that very same agreement.
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An Alan Smithee Nation
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Founded: Apr 18, 2018
New York Times Democracy

Postby An Alan Smithee Nation » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:39 am

Image

The media cruelly ask Dominic Raab to explain Fleming's Right Hand Rule.
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The Huskar Social Union
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Huskar Social Union » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:45 am

The Notorious Mad Jack wrote:There is something incredible about how this government, upon negotiating, signing and fighting an election on the Northern Ireland protocol and the 'oven ready' Brexit deal, is now demanding - and in some cases unilaterally making - changes to that very same agreement.

You are talking Britain down, how dare you.
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The Huskar Social Union
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Huskar Social Union » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:49 am

Hundreds march on the Shankill at Northern Ireland Protocol protest

Hundreds of people gathered on the Shankill Road in west Belfast on Thursday evening as part of a protest against the Northern Ireland Protocol.

The event, which was not scheduled on the Parades Commission website, saw bands march along the road as protestors held banners expressing their opposition to the Irish Sea border.

The Northern Ireland Protocol, which is part of the post-Brexit trading agreement between the UK and EU, has been the source of significant unionist tension over the past few months.

Organised by the ‘Greater Shankill Coalition’ group, organisers argued the protocol “represents the greatest threat to Northern Ireland’s sovereignty and status within the United Kingdom”.

A speech made by the group during the protest added: “The status of Northern Ireland is not what it was prior to the imposition of the Protocol. We can no longer stand idly by and accept this political assault on our democracy.

"We will resist in the strongest possible terms, any attempt to change the status of Northern Ireland.

=CONTINUES=
Here we go again.

They also burnt a United Ireland banner too and have kids wearing balaclavas. Guys it to do with trade and the businesses, totally not a display of sectarian Triumphalism intended to intimidate Nationalists.
Last edited by The Huskar Social Union on Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:11 am, edited 3 times in total.
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The Huskar Social Union
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Huskar Social Union » Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:11 am

Former DUP MP Emma Little Pengelly is leaving the DUP once Foster steps down

One of the more high profile members to leave. She was MP for South Belfast till she lost her seat in 2019 to Claire Hanna of the SDLP.
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Ifreann
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Posts: 146130
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Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ifreann » Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:33 am

CoraSpia wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Maya Forstater wasn't dismissed from her job, her contract ended and wasn't renewed. I would have thought that you'd be strongly opposed to efforts to force a business to renew a contract with someone it doesn't want to employ.

I would have been, 2 years ago. As I've said recently, my views have changed quite a lot over the course of the pandemic. If we must restrict businesses to prevent political discrimination, especially in such a bad job market, then so be it.

Interesting. So once one's foot is in the door one need only make some politically controversial comments and thereafter have a job for life.
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Dumb Ideologies
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Mother Knows Best State

Postby Dumb Ideologies » Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:57 am

CoraSpia wrote:
Philjia wrote:This is untrue, what she's actually won is the right to go back to the tribunal.
The judgement also states that deliberate misgendering is unequivocally harassment so it's a pretty big L for TERFs.

A tribunal explicitly told that its wrong generally makes a different decision the second time around for obvious reasons. The trip back to the tribunal is often a formality in preparation for the next appeal, only one from the other side. I don't know why they do it, it's stupid that they do it, it wastes everyones time, why do they do it, they should stop doing it.


We have tied ourselves in knots with the Equality Act and the labyrinthine nuances whereby we are required to acknowledge sex-based disadvantages while at the same time any suggestion that you will not unequivocally affirm gender identity where it differs from sex is harassment.

Make no mistake, the TERF agitators on this are not good people and are typically quite hateful, but the law is a mess and your average person has no idea what they can and can't say, even things that sound ostensibly reasonable - this probably increases public sympathy for people involved in cases like this.
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The Huskar Social Union
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Huskar Social Union » Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:05 am

Girls asked for nudes by up to 11 boys a night, Ofsted finds

Some girls can be contacted by up to 11 boys a night asking for nude images, the schools watchdog for England says.

In an Ofsted survey, girls explained that if they blocked boys on social media "they just create multiple accounts to harass you".

The report also found nine in 10 girls experienced sexist name-calling or were sent explicit photos or videos.

The watchdog is warning that sexual harassment has become "normalised" among school-age children.

Students often do not see the point of reporting abuse and many teachers underestimate the scale of these problems, Ofsted says.

In the survey, girls said boys "just won't take no for an answer" when asking for explicit images.

At one school, the girls told inspectors they can be contacted by up to 10 or 11 different boys a night asking for nude or semi-nude images.

Women's groups are calling for school staff to be trained to change the culture and for a government taskforce.

Ministers say schools and colleges will be encouraged to dedicate training days to help staff deal with sexual abuse.

A BBC investigation has revealed at least 13,000 sex offences a year between under-18s have been reported to police in England and Wales between 2018 and 2020.

Thirty police forces responded to a Freedom of Information request which revealed in about 2,000 cases, both the alleged victim and perpetrator were aged 10 or under.

About 1,000 of the reported offences were about events happening on school premises.

This echoes Ofsted's finding that inappropriate sexual behaviour is filtering down into primary schools.

=CONTINUES=


Was surprised this was not shared on here yesterday so i figured i would link it myself.
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Ifreann
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Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ifreann » Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:24 am

Ban children.
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The Huskar Social Union
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Founded: Apr 04, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Huskar Social Union » Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:26 am

Irish Nationalist from Belfast / Alliance Party / Leftwinger / Atheist
Miniature Painting, Cheese, Curry, Tanks and English Gals are my Kryptonite


I never thought in terms of being a leader. I thought very simply in terms of helping people’ - John Hume


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The Free Joy State
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Posts: 14505
Founded: Jan 05, 2014
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby The Free Joy State » Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:16 am

The Huskar Social Union wrote:Girls asked for nudes by up to 11 boys a night, Ofsted finds

Some girls can be contacted by up to 11 boys a night asking for nude images, the schools watchdog for England says.

In an Ofsted survey, girls explained that if they blocked boys on social media "they just create multiple accounts to harass you".

The report also found nine in 10 girls experienced sexist name-calling or were sent explicit photos or videos.

The watchdog is warning that sexual harassment has become "normalised" among school-age children.

Students often do not see the point of reporting abuse and many teachers underestimate the scale of these problems, Ofsted says.

In the survey, girls said boys "just won't take no for an answer" when asking for explicit images.

At one school, the girls told inspectors they can be contacted by up to 10 or 11 different boys a night asking for nude or semi-nude images.

Women's groups are calling for school staff to be trained to change the culture and for a government taskforce.

Ministers say schools and colleges will be encouraged to dedicate training days to help staff deal with sexual abuse.

A BBC investigation has revealed at least 13,000 sex offences a year between under-18s have been reported to police in England and Wales between 2018 and 2020.

Thirty police forces responded to a Freedom of Information request which revealed in about 2,000 cases, both the alleged victim and perpetrator were aged 10 or under.

About 1,000 of the reported offences were about events happening on school premises.

This echoes Ofsted's finding that inappropriate sexual behaviour is filtering down into primary schools.

=CONTINUES=


Was surprised this was not shared on here yesterday so i figured i would link it myself.

I would have shared it, but found there's nothing that can be said other than how horrifying it is that children are being exposed to such abuse at all let alone at such a young age.

I don't think staff training days is enough.

Compulsory education has to be given in schools, beginning with what constitutes consent and what a healthy relationship is (that some children think this abuse is love is... I could cry), and moving onto abuse and pressure and what to do if subjected to it -- including that it is never the victim's fault (it's terrible to read of the girl who was blamed by her peers for being raped). All schools should also have systems in place for dealing with this, and those steps should be followed through (the police should not just be an empty scare tactic for assemblies).
Last edited by The Free Joy State on Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:22 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Dakini
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Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Dakini » Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:19 am

Philjia wrote:
CoraSpia wrote:Not sure how this hasn't come up yet, but a woman who posted comments suggesting that a person couldn't change their sex has won her appeal against her dismissal from a job with a thinktank.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57426579

The regulars know what I think about this by now, people shouldn't face disciplinary action at work for things they do that aren't at work or when actively representing the employer.

This is untrue, what she's actually won is the right to go back to the tribunal.
The judgement also states that deliberate misgendering is unequivocally harassment so it's a pretty big L for TERFs.

Yeah, suggesting that she only "posted comments suggesting that a person couldn't change their sex" is a funny way of saying "repeatedly harassed, deadnamed and misgendered her colleagues" as well.

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Ostroeuropa
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Posts: 55668
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:20 am

*locks eyes with you from across the room*

You've met with a terrible fate, haven't you?

https://twitter.com/UK_Polling/status/1 ... 7789599748

CON: 411 (+46)
LAB: 154 (-48)
SNP: 51 (+3)
LD: 10 (-1)
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Dresderstan
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Dresderstan » Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:22 am

Ostroeuropa wrote:*locks eyes with you from across the room*

You've met with a terrible fate, haven't you?

https://twitter.com/UK_Polling/status/1 ... 7789599748

CON: 411 (+46)
LAB: 154 (-48)
SNP: 51 (+3)
LD: 10 (-1)

Labour would only win a plurality of votes and/or seats in London and only London.
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Ostroeuropa
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:23 am

Dresderstan wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:*locks eyes with you from across the room*

You've met with a terrible fate, haven't you?

https://twitter.com/UK_Polling/status/1 ... 7789599748

CON: 411 (+46)
LAB: 154 (-48)
SNP: 51 (+3)
LD: 10 (-1)

Labour would only win a plurality of votes and/or seats in London and only London.


The public are just too politically uneducated to realize how electable Starmer is. (Incidentally, so far as I can tell, the only election they performed worse at as a major party was 1922, the same election they supplanted the Liberals to become the official opposition, so the Liberals had over a hundred seats.).
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
The feminism that only exists in feminists heads is real, and the feminism that impacts society isn't real.

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