UK Politics Thread IX: Try turning the UK off and on again.

[The Huskar Social Union]

gotta love how the tory high ups are consistently dirty bastards and backstabbing dirty bastards

Con +3

[The Nihilistic view]

After BoJo caught COVID, I think that is when he started to take it seriously. If Boris truly didn’t give a shit, The UK wouldn’t be the first country with the vaccine, and the UK wouldn’t have some of the highest vaccination rates in the world.

And we also wouldn't be spacing vaccine doses far beyond the recommendation just to make the numbers look better. And we would've locked down when the experts said to, not weeks after when the damage is already done.

Why are you anti-science?

[Hirota]

And we also wouldn't be spacing vaccine doses far beyond the recommendation just to make the numbers look better.

In a turn of events people will find absolutely shocking I'm sure, you are still talking utter and complete drivel.

I don't understand why you can repeatedly fail to comprehend this.

[The Nihilistic view]

At this point it's just as stupid as covid denial or being an Anti-vaxer.

[Vassenor]

At this point it's just as stupid as covid denial or being an Anti-vaxer.

What? Wanting the at risk groups to actually be protected by the vaccine rather than going for the LOOK HOW MANY (first) DOSES WE GAVE OUT!" angle?

[Hirota]

At this point it's just as stupid as covid denial or being an Anti-vaxer.

There was a point where some scepticism was warranted, back when the efficacy of the various vaccines wasn't fully understood and the spreading out of the second vaccine was an educated guess. Now we know that a single shot offers around 60 to 85 percent efficacy the maths of spreading them out are very obvious, especially for high risk groups.

On top of that this we now know for certain that the educated guess has been generally been vindicated.

[The Nihilistic view]

At this point it's just as stupid as covid denial or being an Anti-vaxer.

What? Wanting the at risk groups to actually be protected by the vaccine rather than going for the LOOK HOW MANY (first) DOSES WE GAVE OUT!" angle?

It's fine we get it. You can't make yourself say anything that might be remotely like praise for the UK even when it's supported through science. That's fine just know that people think of you like they think about covid deniers because of it.

[The Nihilistic view]

At this point it's just as stupid as covid denial or being an Anti-vaxer.

There was a point where some scepticism was warranted, back when the efficacy of the various vaccines wasn't fully understood and the spreading out of the second vaccine was an educated guess. Now we know that a single shot offers around 60 to 85 percent efficacy the maths of spreading them out are very obvious, especially for high risk groups.

On top of that this we now know for certain that the educated guess has been generally been vindicated.

Even being charitable and saying 2 doses is 100% effective and being conservative and saying 1 dose is only 60% effective with 2 million doses you protect 200,000 more people from getting it with spreading the doses as well as lowering the transmission. On top of that the large majority of the 800,000 that might still get it won't get it nearly as seriously.

The policy has quite literally saved thousands of elderly and vulnerable lives and helped take the pressure off the NHS more quickly.

The big question really is with such obvious and compelling evidence why more countries aren't doing this. Conversely more people will die in countries that stick to a 3 week gap than would do if they extended the gap.

[Hirota]

At this point it's just as stupid as covid denial or being an Anti-vaxer.

What? Wanting the at risk groups to actually be protected by the vaccine rather than going for the LOOK HOW MANY (first) DOSES WE GAVE OUT!" angle?

In abstract terms getting as many of the at risk group well protected is better than getting half of the risk group fully protected.

In real terms, studies have shown that increasing the period of time between first and second shots shows makes little to no difference all

And, on top of that, as I have pointed out twice now already to you, the UK also leads the way in second doses per capita.

So the science supports giving out more single shots, and the numbers show that the UK is doing perfectly well in second doses per capita. Your entire argument on this point is - like I already pointed out twice - utter drivel.

[Celritannia]

I'm sure we've all heard or seen the reports of the Crawley College incident by now. A terrible situation, but no deaths so that's something at least.

[The Huskar Social Union]

I'm sure we've all heard or seen the reports of the Crawley College incident by now. A terrible situation, but no deaths so that's something at least.

First time ive heard of it but im glad no one was killed.

[Fartsniffage]

I'm sure we've all heard or seen the reports of the Crawley College incident by now. A terrible situation, but no deaths so that's something at least.

First time ive heard of it but im glad no one was killed.

No one really even hurt. They went to a walk in centre.

[The New California Republic]

First time ive heard of it but im glad no one was killed.

No one really even hurt. They went to a walk in centre.

There were actually more serious injuries when that patio heater at the pub exploded...

[Kowani]

Bad software got postal workers thrown in jail, because no one wanted to admit it could be wrong

For the past 20 years UK Post Office employees have been dealing with a piece of software called Horizon, which had a fatal flaw: bugs that made it look like employees stole tens of thousands of British pounds. This led to some local postmasters being convicted of crimes, even being sent to prison, because the Post Office doggedly insisted the software could be trusted. After fighting for decades, 39 people are finally having their convictions overturned, after what is reportedly the largest miscarriage of justice that the UK has ever seen.

The impact on these employees has been vast: according to the BBC, some have lost marriages or time with their children. Talking to the BBC, Janet Skinner said that she was taken away from her two kids for nine months when she was imprisoned, after the software showed a £59,000 shortfall. She also says she lost a job offer because of her criminal conviction. The time she and others like her spent in jail can’t be bought back, and it happened because software was taken at its word.

According to the BBC, another woman, who swore she was innocent, was sent to prison for theft while she was pregnant. One man reportedly died by suicide after the computer system showed that he had lost almost £100,000. Within a few months, his replacement also faced losses due to discrepancies from the software. Horizon was made by Japanese company Fujitsu, and information from it was used to prosecute 736 Post Office employees between 2000 and 2014, some of whom ended up going to jail. Bugs in the system would cause it to report that accounts that were under the employees’ control were short — the BBC has reported that some employees even tried to close the gap by remortgaging their homes, or using their own money. It does seem like the nightmare for the employees may be coming to an end. The 39 who had their convictions overturned are following another six who were cleared of wrongdoing back in December. The Post Office has also been working on financially compensating other employees who were caught up by the software.

In 2019 the Post Office settled with 555 claimants and paid damages to them, and it’s also set up a system to repay other affected employees. So far, according to the BBC, more than 2,400 claims have been made.

Earlier this month the chief executive of the Post Office said that Horizon would be replaced with a new, cloud-based solution. In the same speech, he said that the Post Office would work with the government to compensate the employees who were affected by Horizon’s inaccuracies.

The UK’s prime minister Boris Johnson also weighed in today, calling the original convictions “an appalling injustice.”


Some employees seem happy with just a monetary settlement and their names being cleared. But there is also now a campaign group calling for a full public inquiry, and some of the people whose names were cleared today have called for those in charge to be held responsible.

The BBC reported that the Post Office argued the errors couldn’t have been be the fault of the computer system — despite knowing that wasn’t true. There is evidence that the Post Office’s legal department was aware that the software could produce inaccurate results, even before some of the convictions were made. According to the BBC, one of the representatives for the Post Office workers said that the post office “readily accepted the loss of life, liberty and sanity for many ordinary people” in its “pursuit of reputation and profit.”

[The Nihilistic view]

Bad software got postal workers thrown in jail, because no one wanted to admit it could be wrong

For the past 20 years UK Post Office employees have been dealing with a piece of software called Horizon, which had a fatal flaw: bugs that made it look like employees stole tens of thousands of British pounds. This led to some local postmasters being convicted of crimes, even being sent to prison, because the Post Office doggedly insisted the software could be trusted. After fighting for decades, 39 people are finally having their convictions overturned, after what is reportedly the largest miscarriage of justice that the UK has ever seen.

The impact on these employees has been vast: according to the BBC, some have lost marriages or time with their children. Talking to the BBC, Janet Skinner said that she was taken away from her two kids for nine months when she was imprisoned, after the software showed a £59,000 shortfall. She also says she lost a job offer because of her criminal conviction. The time she and others like her spent in jail can’t be bought back, and it happened because software was taken at its word.

According to the BBC, another woman, who swore she was innocent, was sent to prison for theft while she was pregnant. One man reportedly died by suicide after the computer system showed that he had lost almost £100,000. Within a few months, his replacement also faced losses due to discrepancies from the software. Horizon was made by Japanese company Fujitsu, and information from it was used to prosecute 736 Post Office employees between 2000 and 2014, some of whom ended up going to jail. Bugs in the system would cause it to report that accounts that were under the employees’ control were short — the BBC has reported that some employees even tried to close the gap by remortgaging their homes, or using their own money. It does seem like the nightmare for the employees may be coming to an end. The 39 who had their convictions overturned are following another six who were cleared of wrongdoing back in December. The Post Office has also been working on financially compensating other employees who were caught up by the software.

In 2019 the Post Office settled with 555 claimants and paid damages to them, and it’s also set up a system to repay other affected employees. So far, according to the BBC, more than 2,400 claims have been made.

Earlier this month the chief executive of the Post Office said that Horizon would be replaced with a new, cloud-based solution. In the same speech, he said that the Post Office would work with the government to compensate the employees who were affected by Horizon’s inaccuracies.

The UK’s prime minister Boris Johnson also weighed in today, calling the original convictions “an appalling injustice.”


Some employees seem happy with just a monetary settlement and their names being cleared. But there is also now a campaign group calling for a full public inquiry, and some of the people whose names were cleared today have called for those in charge to be held responsible.

The BBC reported that the Post Office argued the errors couldn’t have been be the fault of the computer system — despite knowing that wasn’t true. There is evidence that the Post Office’s legal department was aware that the software could produce inaccurate results, even before some of the convictions were made. According to the BBC, one of the representatives for the Post Office workers said that the post office “readily accepted the loss of life, liberty and sanity for many ordinary people” in its “pursuit of reputation and profit.”

I'm not that big in always finding somebody to blame for everything as sometimes people make genuine mistakes or aren't equipped for the job but in this case the collective failure of decision making has lead to such serious consequences that those people should be accountable. For example if you know it might be dodgy but still push for a conviction could that even count as perjury for example in some of the cases?

[CoraSpia]

Really the only thing Boris got right about his response to the pandemic was the vaccine program. Every other move has been characterised by delays, missteps and corruption.

Well it looked like he was going to do a good job at the start of the pandemic, back when there were indoor concerts going on and the Cheltenham festival was packed. Sadly it was all bollocks however.

[The Free Joy State]

At this point it's just as stupid as covid denial or being an Anti-vaxer.

There was a point where some scepticism was warranted, back when the efficacy of the various vaccines wasn't fully understood and the spreading out of the second vaccine was an educated guess. Now we know that a single shot offers around 60 to 85 percent efficacy the maths of spreading them out are very obvious, especially for high risk groups.

On top of that this we now know for certain that the educated guess has been generally been vindicated.

I was sceptical at first. I think it was fair to be suspicious of the government's motives when they were working in opposition to what the manufacturers' said without research to support them, and considering the total cock-up they have made of everything else.

But, I will say that, in this it appears they did something right (though it pains me to say it every time) -- and it quite probably was a lucky guess.

A study of 370,000 people showed infections in the UK went down by 65% (the reduction of symptomatic infections being 72% and asymptomatic infection being 57%) after the first dose of either Pfizer or AstraZeneca, with the protection being just as effective in the under-75s and over-75s, with or without long-term health conditions. This is positive news.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

Bad software got postal workers thrown in jail, because no one wanted to admit it could be wrong

For the past 20 years UK Post Office employees have been dealing with a piece of software called Horizon, which had a fatal flaw: bugs that made it look like employees stole tens of thousands of British pounds. This led to some local postmasters being convicted of crimes, even being sent to prison, because the Post Office doggedly insisted the software could be trusted. After fighting for decades, 39 people are finally having their convictions overturned, after what is reportedly the largest miscarriage of justice that the UK has ever seen.

The impact on these employees has been vast: according to the BBC, some have lost marriages or time with their children. Talking to the BBC, Janet Skinner said that she was taken away from her two kids for nine months when she was imprisoned, after the software showed a £59,000 shortfall. She also says she lost a job offer because of her criminal conviction. The time she and others like her spent in jail can’t be bought back, and it happened because software was taken at its word.

According to the BBC, another woman, who swore she was innocent, was sent to prison for theft while she was pregnant. One man reportedly died by suicide after the computer system showed that he had lost almost £100,000. Within a few months, his replacement also faced losses due to discrepancies from the software. Horizon was made by Japanese company Fujitsu, and information from it was used to prosecute 736 Post Office employees between 2000 and 2014, some of whom ended up going to jail. Bugs in the system would cause it to report that accounts that were under the employees’ control were short — the BBC has reported that some employees even tried to close the gap by remortgaging their homes, or using their own money. It does seem like the nightmare for the employees may be coming to an end. The 39 who had their convictions overturned are following another six who were cleared of wrongdoing back in December. The Post Office has also been working on financially compensating other employees who were caught up by the software.

In 2019 the Post Office settled with 555 claimants and paid damages to them, and it’s also set up a system to repay other affected employees. So far, according to the BBC, more than 2,400 claims have been made.

Earlier this month the chief executive of the Post Office said that Horizon would be replaced with a new, cloud-based solution. In the same speech, he said that the Post Office would work with the government to compensate the employees who were affected by Horizon’s inaccuracies.

The UK’s prime minister Boris Johnson also weighed in today, calling the original convictions “an appalling injustice.”


Some employees seem happy with just a monetary settlement and their names being cleared. But there is also now a campaign group calling for a full public inquiry, and some of the people whose names were cleared today have called for those in charge to be held responsible.

The BBC reported that the Post Office argued the errors couldn’t have been be the fault of the computer system — despite knowing that wasn’t true. There is evidence that the Post Office’s legal department was aware that the software could produce inaccurate results, even before some of the convictions were made. According to the BBC, one of the representatives for the Post Office workers said that the post office “readily accepted the loss of life, liberty and sanity for many ordinary people” in its “pursuit of reputation and profit.”

Personally I want the full weight of the law to be used against the people who pushed for the prosecutions despite knowing the system could be to blame. Any bonuses they were repaid by the company should be paid back.

One ex-director has quit two jobs on the boards of companies, and stepped back as a Church of England minister as a result
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56882496

[The Nihilistic view]

Bad software got postal workers thrown in jail, because no one wanted to admit it could be wrong

For the past 20 years UK Post Office employees have been dealing with a piece of software called Horizon, which had a fatal flaw: bugs that made it look like employees stole tens of thousands of British pounds. This led to some local postmasters being convicted of crimes, even being sent to prison, because the Post Office doggedly insisted the software could be trusted. After fighting for decades, 39 people are finally having their convictions overturned, after what is reportedly the largest miscarriage of justice that the UK has ever seen.

The impact on these employees has been vast: according to the BBC, some have lost marriages or time with their children. Talking to the BBC, Janet Skinner said that she was taken away from her two kids for nine months when she was imprisoned, after the software showed a £59,000 shortfall. She also says she lost a job offer because of her criminal conviction. The time she and others like her spent in jail can’t be bought back, and it happened because software was taken at its word.

According to the BBC, another woman, who swore she was innocent, was sent to prison for theft while she was pregnant. One man reportedly died by suicide after the computer system showed that he had lost almost £100,000. Within a few months, his replacement also faced losses due to discrepancies from the software. Horizon was made by Japanese company Fujitsu, and information from it was used to prosecute 736 Post Office employees between 2000 and 2014, some of whom ended up going to jail. Bugs in the system would cause it to report that accounts that were under the employees’ control were short — the BBC has reported that some employees even tried to close the gap by remortgaging their homes, or using their own money. It does seem like the nightmare for the employees may be coming to an end. The 39 who had their convictions overturned are following another six who were cleared of wrongdoing back in December. The Post Office has also been working on financially compensating other employees who were caught up by the software.

In 2019 the Post Office settled with 555 claimants and paid damages to them, and it’s also set up a system to repay other affected employees. So far, according to the BBC, more than 2,400 claims have been made.

Earlier this month the chief executive of the Post Office said that Horizon would be replaced with a new, cloud-based solution. In the same speech, he said that the Post Office would work with the government to compensate the employees who were affected by Horizon’s inaccuracies.

The UK’s prime minister Boris Johnson also weighed in today, calling the original convictions “an appalling injustice.”


Some employees seem happy with just a monetary settlement and their names being cleared. But there is also now a campaign group calling for a full public inquiry, and some of the people whose names were cleared today have called for those in charge to be held responsible.

The BBC reported that the Post Office argued the errors couldn’t have been be the fault of the computer system — despite knowing that wasn’t true. There is evidence that the Post Office’s legal department was aware that the software could produce inaccurate results, even before some of the convictions were made. According to the BBC, one of the representatives for the Post Office workers said that the post office “readily accepted the loss of life, liberty and sanity for many ordinary people” in its “pursuit of reputation and profit.”

Personally I want the full weight of the law to be used against the people who pushed for the prosecutions despite knowing the system could be to blame. Any bonuses they were repaid by the company should be paid back.

One ex-director has quit two jobs on the boards of companies, and stepped back as a Church of England minister as a result
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56882496

I think you need criminal penalties in this sort of case. Finacial doesn't really cut it considering the consequences that were put upon other people.

[The Notorious Mad Jack]

Really the only thing Boris got right about his response to the pandemic was the vaccine program. Every other move has been characterised by delays, missteps and corruption.

Well it looked like he was going to do a good job at the start of the pandemic, back when there were indoor concerts going on and the Cheltenham festival was packed. Sadly it was all bollocks however.

We get it, you want people to die so you aren't inconvenienced.

Personally I want the full weight of the law to be used against the people who pushed for the prosecutions despite knowing the system could be to blame. Any bonuses they were repaid by the company should be paid back.

One ex-director has quit two jobs on the boards of companies, and stepped back as a Church of England minister as a result
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56882496

I think you need criminal penalties in this sort of case. Finacial doesn't really cut it considering the consequences that were put upon other people.

Definitely this. They put so much stock in the system they were warned was faulty that they went after people in a way that was disgusting.

One thing I do wonder though is whether this would've happened if Royal Mail was still a state owned entity.

[The Nihilistic view]

Well it looked like he was going to do a good job at the start of the pandemic, back when there were indoor concerts going on and the Cheltenham festival was packed. Sadly it was all bollocks however.

We get it, you want people to die so you aren't inconvenienced.

I think you need criminal penalties in this sort of case. Finacial doesn't really cut it considering the consequences that were put upon other people.

Definitely this. They put so much stock in the system they were warned was faulty that they went after people in a way that was disgusting.

One thing I do wonder though is whether this would've happened if Royal Mail was still a state owned entity.

I'm pretty sure the vast majority if not all of the prosecutions happened before Royal Mail was privatised. So the answer is yes, it did lol.

[The Nihilistic view]

This isn't a new event. I recall watching a panorama programme about it 5 or 6 years ago which would have been about the time it was privatised. It goes back to the early 00s the system itself was developed in the 90s.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

It's hard to imagine a time when anybody would actually believe in a major software roll-out without bugs.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Some spicy Norn Iron goodness concerning both the DUP and Sinn Fein:

Entire Derry Sinn Féin leadership asked to stand aside

The entire leadership of Derry Sinn Féin has been asked to stand aside, the Irish Examiner can reveal.

Multiple sources within the party North and South have confirmed that a number of individuals in the Derry Comhairle Ceantair were stood aside last week after a long investigation into the local group regarding election performance and governance.

The investigation focused heavily on elections after two disastrous days at the polls. In the most recent local elections for Derry and Strabane council, the party lost five seats and its position as the largest party. In the UK general election, then-MP Elisha McCallion lost the Foyle seat to the SDLP's Colum Eastwood by more than 17,000 votes.

Ms McCallion, who was later appointed to the Seanad, then stood down after it emerged she had received £10,000 in a Stormont Covid-19 grant for which she was ineligible.

Her resignation was seen at the time as “the final nail in the coffin” for the party’s hopes in Derry and an in-depth investigation was launched.

=CONTINUES=

So it seems that Sinn Fein is aiming to change up its local leadership in Derry and the Foyle area, most likely due to recent electoral performance and some controversies involving their former MP in the area. Supposedly SF views the area as a lost cause for at least a generation and that the current leadership have run the place into the ground, damaged SF's electability and confidence among voters.

Foyle (Where Derry is located) was a heartland for the SDLP since its creation as a constituency and they won every Westminster election here from 1983 till 2017 where they lost it to Sinn Fein due to Sinn Feins electoral surge that year for both the Westminster and Assembly Election. However Sinn Fein's vote share imploded in 2019 and the SDLP took the seat back in a huge win with a majority of 17k votes. In the 2019 Local Elections, Sinn Fein went from 16 seats in the Derry and Strabane district council to eleven, losing five and tying with the SDLP for largest party who gained three.

Their former MP, Elisha McCallion was repositioned for a Senator position in the Republic by Sinn Fein and was forced to resign after she failed to disclose her former offices were mistakenly given a covid 19 small business grant and didnt return the money.

And for the DUP: "Arlene Foster faces an “open revolt” in which eight of the DUP's 18 constituency associations have submitted letters of concern to the leadership & councillors are considering resignation, multiple party sources have told the News Letter."

According to the Newsletter (Unionist leaning newspaper) the DUP faces an open revolt against Arlene Foster's leadership of the party with eight constituency associations writing letters of concern over her and four other DUP MLA's Abstention on the Conversion therapy ban motion in Stormont last week. Supposedly a number of councillors are threatening to resign from the party, and that senior ranking DUP figures might be making moves against her to remove her from power.

There are meant to be a lot of internal problems and unrest in the party which would not surprise me given Polls show that they stand to take heavy losses to both the Alliance party and TUV in the next election and that Brexit has spectacularly backfired on them. Also due to apparent concerns the party is moving from its founding principles.

[Fartsniffage]

No one really even hurt. They went to a walk in centre.

There were actually more serious injuries when that patio heater at the pub exploded...

Hah, one of the teachers at the school took the shooter out. Apparently all you need to protect a school from a bad guy with a gun is a British teacher whose cup of tea has gone cold before they could drink it....

Police have thanked people who helped apprehend a suspect amid reports of gunshots at a college.

Armed police officers descended on Crawley College in West Sussex at 15:10 BST on Monday, and arrested an 18-year-old man.

Ch Supt Howard Hodges said: "I want to thank those who helped apprehend the suspect before officers arrived."

Two members of staff sustained minor injuries, and a knife and firearm were recovered from the scene, police said.

Video appearing to show a member of staff tackling the suspect to the ground and pinning him to the floor was shared by students on Snapchat on Monday.