UK Politics Thread IX: Try turning the UK off and on again.

[The Archregimancy]

I was looking at the different polls for party preferences in Wales and Scotland, admittedly for their Parliaments, but they do give us an insight into next week's votes. In Scotland, the SNP is as popular as ever and has seen a rise in support in recent weeks, while they haven't changed much at all in Wales save for a few PC bumps. As for the Liberal Democrats, where else are disillusioned or moderate Conservatives who don't want lefty changes going to go?

Aren't the Liberal Democrats a leftist party?

The Liberal Democrats - of which, for the sake of transparency, I'm an active member - are generally characterised as centrist.

They combine two different political traditions arising from the two parties that merged to form the LibDems. One is the old Liberal Party tradition which can be broadly characterised as free-market economic liberal with a socially liberal lean. The second is the Social Democratic Party tradition. The SDP were a centre-left party that split from the Labour Party in 1981 over concern that the latter was becoming too left-leaning.

Historically, LibDem leaders from the Liberal tradition of the party (ie Nick Clegg) have tended to emphasise economic liberalism over social liberalism, while leaders from the SDP tradition of the party (ie Charles Kennedy - who was originally elected as an SDP MP) have tended to emphasise social liberalism over economic liberalism. When the party is led by a Liberal tradition leader, it can be externally perceived to be be leaning centre to centre-right; when it's led by an SDP leader, it can be externally perceived to be leaning more to the centre-left. The balance between those two traditions is usually at the core of internal party debate - but then all parties, especially the two primary national parties, are even broader coalitions; the Conservatives can include both Jacob Rees-Mogg and Ken Clarke, Labour can include Keir Starmer and Jeremy Corbyn (or at least both parties used to include both).

Historically, however, a commitment to free-market economic liberalism has been one of the few constants in party policy, dating back to when Gladstone led the old Liberal party at the peak of its power and influence in the second half of the 19th century. It's the degree of emphasis on that economic liberalism, and what it means in practice that's often open to debate. The embrace of social liberalism has tended to adapt to broader societal changes over time.

[CoraSpia]

Aren't the Liberal Democrats a leftist party?

The Liberal Democrats - of which, for the sake of transparency, I'm an active member - are generally characterised as centrist.

They combine two different political traditions arising from the two parties that merged to form the LibDems. One is the old Liberal Party tradition which can be broadly characterised as free-market economic liberal with a socially liberal lean. The second is the Social Democratic Party tradition. The SDP were a centre-left party that split from the Labour Party in 1981 over concern that the latter was becoming too left-leaning.

Historically, LibDem leaders from the Liberal tradition of the party (ie Nick Clegg) have tended to emphasise economic liberalism over social liberalism, while leaders from the SDP tradition of the party (ie Charles Kennedy - who was originally elected as an SDP MP) have tended to emphasise social liberalism over economic liberalism. When the party is led by a Liberal tradition leader, it can be externally perceived to be be leaning centre to centre-right; when it's led by an SDP leader, it can be externally perceived to be leaning more to the centre-left. The balance between those two traditions is usually at the core of internal party debate - but then all parties, especially the two primary national parties, are even broader coalitions; the Conservatives can include both Jacob Rees-Mogg and Ken Clarke, Labour can include Keir Starmer and Jeremy Corbyn (or at least both parties used to include both).

Historically, however, a commitment to free-market economic liberalism has been one of the few constants in party policy, dating back to when Gladstone led the old Liberal party at the peak of its power and influence in the second half of the 19th century. It's the degree of emphasis on that economic liberalism, and what it means in practice that's often open to debate. The embrace of social liberalism has tended to adapt to broader societal changes over time.

Which group would you suggest holds the upper hand at the moment?

[Vassenor]

Maybe we should talk about how the moral panic being stoked around the Trans Rights issue has been weaponised into the perfect smokescreen for the government's bullshit like the Elections Bill.

[Mtwara]

I think it's wrong to weaponise trans rights but we're all guilty of allowing that to happen. Even on NationStates there seems to be more discussion of trans rights than boring political subjects like the economy or energy policy.

[The Archregimancy]

The Liberal Democrats - of which, for the sake of transparency, I'm an active member - are generally characterised as centrist.

They combine two different political traditions arising from the two parties that merged to form the LibDems. One is the old Liberal Party tradition which can be broadly characterised as free-market economic liberal with a socially liberal lean. The second is the Social Democratic Party tradition. The SDP were a centre-left party that split from the Labour Party in 1981 over concern that the latter was becoming too left-leaning.

Historically, LibDem leaders from the Liberal tradition of the party (ie Nick Clegg) have tended to emphasise economic liberalism over social liberalism, while leaders from the SDP tradition of the party (ie Charles Kennedy - who was originally elected as an SDP MP) have tended to emphasise social liberalism over economic liberalism. When the party is led by a Liberal tradition leader, it can be externally perceived to be be leaning centre to centre-right; when it's led by an SDP leader, it can be externally perceived to be leaning more to the centre-left. The balance between those two traditions is usually at the core of internal party debate - but then all parties, especially the two primary national parties, are even broader coalitions; the Conservatives can include both Jacob Rees-Mogg and Ken Clarke, Labour can include Keir Starmer and Jeremy Corbyn (or at least both parties used to include both).

Historically, however, a commitment to free-market economic liberalism has been one of the few constants in party policy, dating back to when Gladstone led the old Liberal party at the peak of its power and influence in the second half of the 19th century. It's the degree of emphasis on that economic liberalism, and what it means in practice that's often open to debate. The embrace of social liberalism has tended to adapt to broader societal changes over time.

Which group would you suggest holds the upper hand at the moment?

Good question.

I would say that the internal party situation is finely balanced at present, but the economic liberal tradition has provided the current party leader.

Sir Ed Davey is, after all, both a former coalition minister and a former economist. Had Layla Moran won the last leadership election, then our new pansexual British Palestinian leader would likely have emphasised the socially liberal side.

However, I would stress that this shouldn't be seen as a zero-sum competition. Both party traditions ebb and flow on specific issues, agree on many others, and it's often a matter of emphasis rather than one wing of the party seizing control from another.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Electoral Commission ‘concerned’ after Tories vote to put it under more government control

The Electoral Commission has said it is "concerned" about its future independence after the government passed a new law to put it under ministerial control.

The changes included in the Elections Bill, which finally passed the House of Lords on Wednesday night, will hand the government sweeping powers to direct the elections watchdog's priorities.

Opponents say the changes endanger free and fair elections and amount to an "authoritarian power grab" that will let ministers shape how electoral law applies to their own party and political opponents.

Under the bill, which was passed be peers by 202 votes to 181, the secretary of state will be able to unilaterally issue a "statement of purpose" that directs the Commission's priorities.

The bill will also automatically add a government minister to the committee that oversees and scrutinises the work of the Commission – entrenching a Tory majority.

The law had been defeated by peers on Monday but was sent back to the upper house again two days later – a move which sources in the House of Lords say caught opposition parties off-guard.

Just 67 Labour peers turned out to vote against the measure, 70 Liberal Democrats, 33 crossenchers, and three rebel Conservatives. The House of Lords has 767 members and an inbuilt opposition majority, but many peers do not turn up to vote on all occasions.

Opposition parties were surprised by how many Tories turned up on Wednesday, and were unable to stop the bill despite having done so two days earlier.

Responding to the vote, a spokesperson for the Electoral Commission said: “As the political finance regulator and the body which oversees free and fair elections, the way we work and our decisions must remain independent. This underpins fairness and trust in the electoral system, as well as public and cross party confidence in the Commission.

“We remain concerned about the potential impact of this measure, and look to the formal consultation on the Government’s proposed statement once that is available.

“All parties have stated during the parliamentary consideration of the Elections Bill that the independence of the Electoral Commission is vital to the functioning of a healthy democracy. The Commission will continue to act in an independent and impartial way in order to help maintain public confidence in elections across the UK.”

=CONTINUES=

[Hukhalia]

i wonder how much longer the electoral commission will be allowed such concern if these trends continue lol

[Ifreann]

Oh hey, the Elections Bill is passing as well. Hope you all have your papers in order if you plan on voting.

[The Huskar Social Union]

I declare Ed Balls.

[Celritannia]

Electoral Commission ‘concerned’ after Tories vote to put it under more government control

The Electoral Commission has said it is "concerned" about its future independence after the government passed a new law to put it under ministerial control.

The changes included in the Elections Bill, which finally passed the House of Lords on Wednesday night, will hand the government sweeping powers to direct the elections watchdog's priorities.

Opponents say the changes endanger free and fair elections and amount to an "authoritarian power grab" that will let ministers shape how electoral law applies to their own party and political opponents.

Under the bill, which was passed be peers by 202 votes to 181, the secretary of state will be able to unilaterally issue a "statement of purpose" that directs the Commission's priorities.

The bill will also automatically add a government minister to the committee that oversees and scrutinises the work of the Commission – entrenching a Tory majority.

The law had been defeated by peers on Monday but was sent back to the upper house again two days later – a move which sources in the House of Lords say caught opposition parties off-guard.

Just 67 Labour peers turned out to vote against the measure, 70 Liberal Democrats, 33 crossenchers, and three rebel Conservatives. The House of Lords has 767 members and an inbuilt opposition majority, but many peers do not turn up to vote on all occasions.

Opposition parties were surprised by how many Tories turned up on Wednesday, and were unable to stop the bill despite having done so two days earlier.

Responding to the vote, a spokesperson for the Electoral Commission said: “As the political finance regulator and the body which oversees free and fair elections, the way we work and our decisions must remain independent. This underpins fairness and trust in the electoral system, as well as public and cross party confidence in the Commission.

“We remain concerned about the potential impact of this measure, and look to the formal consultation on the Government’s proposed statement once that is available.

“All parties have stated during the parliamentary consideration of the Elections Bill that the independence of the Electoral Commission is vital to the functioning of a healthy democracy. The Commission will continue to act in an independent and impartial way in order to help maintain public confidence in elections across the UK.”

=CONTINUES=

Can the Tories just say they are embracing fascism? This whole "we are chipping away at democracy" thing is getting tiresome.

[Nationalist Northumbria]

Hearing reports from my sources in the party that the Northern Independence Party is on the verge of victory in Newcastle upon Tyne's Wingrove ward, where Labour councillor Joyce McCarty was suspended over text messages describing the deselection of council leader Nick Forbes as a "Muslim plot".

[Vassenor]

Oh hey, the Elections Bill is passing as well. Hope you all have your papers in order if you plan on voting.

And the Police, Crime and Sentencing Bill passed too so make sure you only protest very quietly.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Im not that fussed about voter ID overall since ive used one my entire life for voting but in general i dont like them fucking around with the electoral commission.

[Ifreann]

I declare Ed Balls.

A solemn, dignified Ed Balls day to all who celebrate.

[The Huskar Social Union]

I declare Ed Balls.

A solemn, dignified Ed Balls day to all who celebrate.

A day that should rightfully be a bank holiday imo

[Vassenor]

I declare Ed Balls.

Oh god was it really that time already?

[Ifreann]

A solemn, dignified Ed Balls day to all who celebrate.

A day that should rightfully be a bank holiday imo

It is only right that people should spend this day in contemplation of the sacred text.

[San Lumen]

Electoral Commission ‘concerned’ after Tories vote to put it under more government control

Can the Tories just say they are embracing fascism? This whole "we are chipping away at democracy" thing is getting tiresome.

I guess they are taking inspiration from the Republicans in the US.

[Hukhalia]

Can the Tories just say they are embracing fascism? This whole "we are chipping away at democracy" thing is getting tiresome.

I guess they are taking inspiration from the Republicans in the US.

the UK and American political systems are too different for the recent republican line of "balls-to-the-wall populism" to be applied here, stop trying to infect foreign politics with pointless references to your rotting country

[Vassenor]

I guess they are taking inspiration from the Republicans in the US.

the UK and American political systems are too different for the recent republican line of "balls-to-the-wall populism" to be applied here, stop trying to infect foreign politics with pointless references to your rotting country

I mean Boris and Trump have both spent their time in power kissing Vlad’s boots so there’s some similarity at least.

[Ifreann]

I guess they are taking inspiration from the Republicans in the US.

the UK and American political systems are too different for the recent republican line of "balls-to-the-wall populism" to be applied here, stop trying to infect foreign politics with pointless references to your rotting country

I'm not sure that there anything in the UK's political systems that makes populism somehow inapplicable.

[Latvijas Otra Republika]

the UK and American political systems are too different for the recent republican line of "balls-to-the-wall populism" to be applied here, stop trying to infect foreign politics with pointless references to your rotting country

I mean Boris and Trump have both spent their time in power kissing Vlad’s boots so there’s some similarity at least.

Except that Boris is doing the exact opposite.
I just think you're just a little confused. If you want to discuss true Putin-boot kissing we can talk about Merkel, Schröder, Macron and Scholz - but unfortunately this is a British thread.

[Vassenor]

I mean Boris and Trump have both spent their time in power kissing Vlad’s boots so there’s some similarity at least.

Except that Boris is doing the exact opposite.
I just think you're just a little confused. If you want to discuss true Putin-boot kissing we can talk about Merkel, Schröder, Macron and Scholz - but unfortunately this is a British thread.

-looks at all the Russian oligarchs who fund the Conservative party-

-looks at the FSB agent that Boris forced into the Lords with no vetting-

[San Lumen]

https://www.euronews.com/2022/04/27/uk- ... parliament


UK investigation after complaint about MP watching porn in parliament

[The Huskar Social Union]

https://www.euronews.com/2022/04/27/uk-investigation-after-complaint-about-mp-watching-porn-in-parliament


UK investigation after complaint about MP watching porn in parliament

Top tip: Dont watch porn at work