UK Politics Thread IX: Try turning the UK off and on again.

[Ostroeuropa]

I do not agree with your analysis and think that power over others for its own sake would continue to be pursued.

obviously there would be (a significantly reduced number of) isolated abuses due to this regardless, as one cannot totally domineer every microsocial event, but the broad strokes which have led to the present cultural clashes will have been eliminated.

It would continue to be pursued at a macrosocial scale as well. You have asserted it wouldn't, and asserted it arises from a particular place, but not actually demonstrated it.

[Hukhalia]

It would continue to be pursued at a macrosocial scale as well. You have asserted it wouldn't, and asserted it arises from a particular place, but not actually demonstrated it.

whence would one draw their macrosocial power in a classless society of free producers?

[Ostroeuropa]

It would continue to be pursued at a macrosocial scale as well. You have asserted it wouldn't, and asserted it arises from a particular place, but not actually demonstrated it.

whence would one draw their macrosocial power in a classless society of free producers?

Are there markets in such a system? Trade? Elaborate on what precisely you're envisioning. Regardless, simply because you cannot envision life in a desert does not mean life doesn't uh find a way. The will to power and memetic evolution guarantees it so long as humans are alive. You propose changing the environment from a lush forest to a desert and insist this will prevent that.

I suggest you do not understand the potency of memetic evolution.

[Celritannia]

[The Huskar Social Union]

(Image)

haha

[Hukhalia]

whence would one draw their macrosocial power in a classless society of free producers?

Are there markets in such a system? Trade? Elaborate on what precisely you're envisioning.

a society beyond the coercive institutions of the state authority, the zenith of sociohistorical development. people receive as they need while they produce as they can. there is no differing relation to production beyond that which is superficial or temporary. there is still authority and hierarchy by which the society takes form, i.e. organisation of production, but this cannot evolve into a state authority due to the aforementioned classlessness failing to provide a contradiction upon which a state authority can be propped.

[Celritannia]

(Image)

haha

I was going to use the popcorn gif you regularly post, but that would be a shameful copy.

[The New California Republic]

haha

I was going to use the popcorn gif you regularly post, but that would be a shameful copy.

I prefer the Michael Jackson one from the Thriller music video.

[Ostroeuropa]

Are there markets in such a system? Trade? Elaborate on what precisely you're envisioning.

a society beyond the coercive institutions of the state authority, the zenith of sociohistorical development. people receive as they need while they produce as they can. there is no differing relation to production beyond that which is superficial or temporary. there is still authority and hierarchy by which the society takes form, i.e. organisation of production, but this cannot evolve into a state authority due to the aforementioned classlessness failing to provide a contradiction upon which a state authority can be propped.

So there is in fact a hierarchy. I don't even particularly need a state for my point to be made here. If you concede a hierarchy, then you as far as i'm concerned you concede the point. People can and will seek a dominant position within that hierarchy purely for its own sake, divorced of material reward for doing so. They will defend their position within it by underhanded means and select for those who will assist them in doing so to be in the center of such a hierarchy through any means available to them from the explicit, to the non-cooperative.

Something as simple as "Billy is a foreman who thinks Like Us. We shall include him in our socials and shall be friendly to him. Jimmy is a foreman who does not. We do not like Jimmy." still enforces social pressures, upward on Billy, downward on Jimmy.

[The Nihilistic view]

(Image)

I think we can finally agree on something.

[Hukhalia]

a society beyond the coercive institutions of the state authority, the zenith of sociohistorical development. people receive as they need while they produce as they can. there is no differing relation to production beyond that which is superficial or temporary. there is still authority and hierarchy by which the society takes form, i.e. organisation of production, but this cannot evolve into a state authority due to the aforementioned classlessness failing to provide a contradiction upon which a state authority can be propped.

So there is in fact a hierarchy. I don't even particularly need a state for my point to be made here. If you concede a hierarchy, then you as far as i'm concerned you concede the point. People can and will seek a dominant position within that hierarchy purely for its own sake, divorced of material reward for doing so. They will defend their position within it by underhanded means and select for those who will assist them in doing so to be in the center of such a hierarchy.

this is an incredibly reductionist and incomplete understanding of the malleability of human nature and hierarchical authority within the context of classless production

[Ostroeuropa]

So there is in fact a hierarchy. I don't even particularly need a state for my point to be made here. If you concede a hierarchy, then you as far as i'm concerned you concede the point. People can and will seek a dominant position within that hierarchy purely for its own sake, divorced of material reward for doing so. They will defend their position within it by underhanded means and select for those who will assist them in doing so to be in the center of such a hierarchy.

this is an incredibly reductionist and incomplete understanding of the malleability of human nature and hierarchical authority within the context of classless production

Another communist seeking to perfect the human animal. How many would die this time?

Our canine teeth are not decorative, comrade.

[Hukhalia]

this is an incredibly reductionist and incomplete understanding of the malleability of human nature and hierarchical authority within the context of classless production

Another communist seeking to perfect the human animal. How many would die this time?

Our canine teeth are not decorative, comrade.

"your social analysis is flawed and will kill people because... canine teeth"

ostroeuropa, ladies and gents -- "our appendix is not decorative, comrade"

[Ostroeuropa]

Another communist seeking to perfect the human animal. How many would die this time?

Our canine teeth are not decorative, comrade.

"your social analysis is flawed and will kill people because... canine teeth"

ostroeuropa, ladies and gents

My point is that the will to power is not malleable. We are a predatory species to our core. Do you propose to make the psychopath sit in the circle and koombayah with you as well? They're particularly adept at hierarchy, but it's in all of us. Attempting to make it malleable will result in you viewing people as non-cooperative for their natural instincts an seeking to "Punish" them for it.

[Hukhalia]

"your social analysis is flawed and will kill people because... canine teeth"

ostroeuropa, ladies and gents

My point is that the will to power is not malleable. We are a predatory species to our core. Do you propose to make the psychopath sit in the circle and koombayah with you as well? They're particularly adept at hierarchy, but it's in all of us. Attempting to make it malleable will result in you viewing people as non-cooperative for their natural instincts an seeking to "Punish" them for it.

man only differentiates himself from animals by the fact that he produces his own mode of life; he therefore only is to the extent that he reproduces this mode of life; reconstitution of this mode of life reconstitutes his nature, as it is, insofar that it is separate from animals. your appeal to discredited "human nature" is fairly ridiculous

also might i note this isn't really ab uk politics anymore

[Ostroeuropa]

My point is that the will to power is not malleable. We are a predatory species to our core. Do you propose to make the psychopath sit in the circle and koombayah with you as well? They're particularly adept at hierarchy, but it's in all of us. Attempting to make it malleable will result in you viewing people as non-cooperative for their natural instincts an seeking to "Punish" them for it.

man only differentiates himself from animals by the fact that he produces his own mode of life; he therefore only is to the extent that he reproduces this mode of life; reconstitution of this mode of life reconstitutes his nature, as it is, insofar that it is separate from animals. your appeal to discredited "human nature" is fairly ridiculous

also might i note this isn't really ab uk politics anymore

Human nature is not discredited except among marxists who reject it because it contradicts their dogma. It's as discredited as Darwinianism was under Stalin in favor of Lysenkoism.

People who know better, know the human universals.

Fortunately, several rather more eminent anthropologists have provided
us with lists of ‘cross-cultural universals’ – practices, customs and beliefs found in all human societies – which
should help me to avoid this hazard. There is some lack of consensus on exactly what practices, etc. should be
included in this category (but then, when did academics ever manage to agree on anything?)5 For example, Robin
Fox gives us the following:
Laws about property, rules about incest and marriage, customs of taboo and avoidance, methods of settling
disputes with a minimum of bloodshed, beliefs about the supernatural and practices relating to it, a system of
social status and methods of indicating it, initiation ceremonies for young men, courtship practices involving the
adornment of females, systems of symbolic body ornament generally, certain activities set aside for men from
which women are excluded, gambling of some kind, a tool- and weapons-making industry, myths and legends,
dancing, adultery and various doses of homicide, suicide, homosexuality, schizophrenia, psychoses and neuroses,
and various practitioners to take advantage of or cure these, depending on how they are viewed.

- Watching the English.

George Peter Murdoch provides a much longer and more detailed list of universals,6 in convenient alphabetical
order, but less amusingly phrased:
Age-grading, athletic sports, bodily adornment, calendar, cleanliness training, community organisation, cooking,
cooperative labour, cosmology, courtship, dancing, decorative art, divination, division of labour, dream
interpretation, education, eschatology, ethics, ethnobiology, etiquette, faith-healing, family, feasting, fire-making,
folklore, food taboos, funeral rites, games, gestures, gift-giving, government, greetings, hairstyles, hospitality,
housing, hygiene, incest taboos, inheritance rules, joking, kin-groups, kinship nomenclature, language, law, luck
superstition, magic, marriage, mealtimes, medicine, modesty concerning natural functions, mourning, music,
mythology, numerals, obstetrics, penal sanctions, personal names, population policy, postnatal care, pregnancy
usages, property rights, propitiation of supernatural beings, puberty customs, religious rituals, residence rules,
sexual restrictions, soul concepts, status differentiation, surgery, tool making, trade, visiting, weaning and
weather control.

The "Eschatology" point being my favorite. Find any person, any time, anywhere, any tribe, and ask them how the world will end. They will be all too happy to tell you, and you should watch the gleam in their eyes as they do to gain an insight into the natural character of the human species.

[Vassenor]

'I was raped by 150 men': Young women claim grooming gang at large in Hull

There is a hell of a lot more in the article that you should read. As well as short videos about it. I hope women like this girl are able to get some justice in the end as this shit is happening far too fucking often on this scale especially with people from certain cultures such as from Pakistan where women are seen as nothing more than meat and needs to be dealt with.

Did I miss part of the article that discusses the ethnicity of the members of the grooming gang?

No, it doesn't discuss their identities at all.

[Ostroeuropa]

Did I miss part of the article that discusses the ethnicity of the members of the grooming gang?

No, it doesn't discuss their identities at all.

The victims have said their ethnicities. Local papers are reporting it. That the mainstream media doesn't report it and actively silences the victims testimony on this matter strengthens the point about how hostile this nation is to the white working class in favor of the ideology of multiculturalism.

https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hu ... ty-5572186
https://vote-watch.com/2021/06/28/polic ... fic-abuse/

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

I too, occasionally view anybody not from the glorious race of Han as Untermenschen.

/s

[Dakini]

Did I miss part of the article that discusses the ethnicity of the members of the grooming gang?

No, it doesn't discuss their identities at all.

Then why is everyone assuming that they're Pakistani? There isn't really evidence that grooming gangs in the UK are predominantly Pakistani.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

While we're at it can we talk about Ghislaine Maxwell and her grooming gang of the bourgeoisie?

[Dakini]

While we're at it can we talk about Ghislaine Maxwell and her grooming gang of the bourgeoisie?

Unless we're talking about Prince Andrew's relationship to Maxwell and all, this isn't really the right thread.

[Ostroeuropa]

No, it doesn't discuss their identities at all.

Then why is everyone assuming that they're Pakistani? There isn't really evidence that grooming gangs in the UK are predominantly Pakistani.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 01941.html

These researchers take a different view from the governments interpretation of the report and insist we need to talk about "Pakistani rape gangs".

The government seems to think "Pakistani's might make up 5% of the country and 84% of rape gangs, but plenty of ethnicities make up the other 16%, so it's not related!", ignoring both common sense and the researchers own conclusions.

From your own link:

available 30% of offenders were White, while 28% were Asian.

This is overrepresenting Asians and underrepresenting whites.

Additionally, also from your link:

Looking at the offenders across all groups, of the 306 offenders 75% were
Asian.

All you've done is shown that the government and media actively deny the findings of their own reports and tell lies about them.

[Philjia]

The North Shropshire by-election to replace Owen Paterson will be held on December 16th, following the Old Bexley and Sidcup by-election to replace the late James Brokenshire on the 2nd of December. As is common for by-elections, there are a lot of candidates.

Conservatives - Neil Hurst-Shastri - The Tories got 62.7% of the vote in North Shropshire in 2019, so it will take a very large swing to unseat them.
Labour - Ben Wood - Labour came second last time with 22.1%. Wood was not the candidate, however; the previous candidate, Graham Currie, was blocked from selection.
Liberal Democrats - Helen Morgan - Morgan stood for the Lib Dems last time and got 10%. The Libs seem to fancy their chances, but it'd be an enormous upset for them to win.
Green - Duncan Kerr - Kerr has stood for the Greens here before, but not the last election, where we got 3.2% of the vote. If we increase our share it'll be a success.
Reform UK - Kirsty Walmsley - Reform's not quite gone the way of UKIP yet but it's heading there. This wasn't a seat they contested in 2019.
UKIP - Andrea Allen - UKIP are on their seventh leader since Nigel Farage stepped down in 2016, but the time of their relevance remains stubbornly passed.
Heritage - James Elliot - People call the left splitters but the far right seem to have the same problem since Heritage is a UKIP offshoot.
Official Monster Raving Loony Party - Alan "Howling Laud" Hope - The Monster Raving Loony Party are the last party on the list to have their own Wikipedia page. Abandon hope all ye who read below...
Reclaim - Martin Daubney - This is Laurence Fox's lot.
Rejoin EU - Boris Been Bunged - Again, this is actually the British branch of the liberal Eurofederalist party Volt Europa.
Freedom Alliance - Earl Jesse - You may remember this recently established small government libertarian anti-lockdown vaccine-sceptic party from Chesham and Amersham, where they got 0.4% of the vote.
Party Party - Russell Dean - I believe this may be a joke candidate. (Not to be confused with all the candidates who are jokes)
Independent - Suzie Akers-Smith - Oh look an independent.
No description - Yolande Kenward - Oh look another one.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Official Monster Raving Loony Party please.