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UK Politics Thread IX: Try turning the UK off and on again.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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British v Not. How do you identify?

European
17
13%
British
31
24%
Scottish
5
4%
English
19
15%
Welsh
4
3%
Irish
4
3%
Ulster/Northern Irish
1
1%
Regional Identity (Yorkshire, Lancastrian, Londoner, etc).
14
11%
I'm a dirty foreigner
35
27%
 
Total votes : 130

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The Blaatschapen
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Postby The Blaatschapen » Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:30 am

The Huskar Social Union wrote:Girls asked for nudes by up to 11 boys a night, Ofsted finds

Some girls can be contacted by up to 11 boys a night asking for nude images, the schools watchdog for England says.

In an Ofsted survey, girls explained that if they blocked boys on social media "they just create multiple accounts to harass you".

The report also found nine in 10 girls experienced sexist name-calling or were sent explicit photos or videos.

The watchdog is warning that sexual harassment has become "normalised" among school-age children.

Students often do not see the point of reporting abuse and many teachers underestimate the scale of these problems, Ofsted says.

In the survey, girls said boys "just won't take no for an answer" when asking for explicit images.

At one school, the girls told inspectors they can be contacted by up to 10 or 11 different boys a night asking for nude or semi-nude images.

Women's groups are calling for school staff to be trained to change the culture and for a government taskforce.

Ministers say schools and colleges will be encouraged to dedicate training days to help staff deal with sexual abuse.

A BBC investigation has revealed at least 13,000 sex offences a year between under-18s have been reported to police in England and Wales between 2018 and 2020.

Thirty police forces responded to a Freedom of Information request which revealed in about 2,000 cases, both the alleged victim and perpetrator were aged 10 or under.

About 1,000 of the reported offences were about events happening on school premises.

This echoes Ofsted's finding that inappropriate sexual behaviour is filtering down into primary schools.

=CONTINUES=


Was surprised this was not shared on here yesterday so i figured i would link it myself.


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Ostroeuropa
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:50 am

The Huskar Social Union wrote:Girls asked for nudes by up to 11 boys a night, Ofsted finds

Some girls can be contacted by up to 11 boys a night asking for nude images, the schools watchdog for England says.

In an Ofsted survey, girls explained that if they blocked boys on social media "they just create multiple accounts to harass you".

The report also found nine in 10 girls experienced sexist name-calling or were sent explicit photos or videos.

The watchdog is warning that sexual harassment has become "normalised" among school-age children.

Students often do not see the point of reporting abuse and many teachers underestimate the scale of these problems, Ofsted says.

In the survey, girls said boys "just won't take no for an answer" when asking for explicit images.

At one school, the girls told inspectors they can be contacted by up to 10 or 11 different boys a night asking for nude or semi-nude images.

Women's groups are calling for school staff to be trained to change the culture and for a government taskforce.

Ministers say schools and colleges will be encouraged to dedicate training days to help staff deal with sexual abuse.

A BBC investigation has revealed at least 13,000 sex offences a year between under-18s have been reported to police in England and Wales between 2018 and 2020.

Thirty police forces responded to a Freedom of Information request which revealed in about 2,000 cases, both the alleged victim and perpetrator were aged 10 or under.

About 1,000 of the reported offences were about events happening on school premises.

This echoes Ofsted's finding that inappropriate sexual behaviour is filtering down into primary schools.

=CONTINUES=


Was surprised this was not shared on here yesterday so i figured i would link it myself.


This is an example of how the media tell lies by technically being factual.

This phrasing in particular jumps out to me:

The report also found nine in 10 girls experienced sexist name-calling or were sent explicit photos or videos.

Given that the story is about being asked for explicit nudes the implication and emotional manipulation going on here is to try and get you to think that 9/10 girls are being asked for explicit nudes. But it's specifcially 9/10 experience sexist name calling, with 7/10 boys also reporting that is the case.

This is an example of one reason why feminist propoganda pieces do not mention mens issues. They're relying on stereotypes to get you not to question the idea that 9/10 girls are asked for nudes. But if they reported that figure alongside the male one, it would trip peoples skepticism and they'd take a closer look.

"9/10 girls and 7/10 boys experienced sexist name calling or being asked for sexually explicit nudes".

On its own this alone would be noteworthy, however, the propoganda piece goes significantly further than merely "Telling lies with statistics" and neglects to mention that this is not actually a study on how often this happens.

The question the kids were asked was;

"How often do you think this happens to people in your age group?".

They're being asked to speculate about what other peoples experiences are rather than report their own. This is then reported as "Oh no, girls are having these experiences". This is an example of a flat out lie about what the report says by the media rather than merely manipulation like the previous example.

All the report has shown is that girls think a lot of stuff is happening in their age group. If that were in fact the case a better question to ask would be "How often does this happen to you" rather than "How often do you think this might happen to other people your age?" then spamming the airwaves with "Oh this happens to lots of people" thereby reinforcing that notion in peoples heads as "Very common" in a self-referential and circular fashion.

We already know from studies that people grossly overestimate how much sexual attention and action other people are getting. So this is actually quite a clever manipualtion by feminist propogandists here, all in service of fueling a moral panic as usual.

The same report contains the actual figures that the BBC chose to ignore in order to tell lies to the public by the way:

26% of young people had sent a nude image to someone they were interested in and 48% had received one of someone else
.

So the BBC is now on the level of literal children in terms of their understanding of dynamics of sexual interactions in schools rather than on the level of people who have studied the situation, as is anyone who believes their nonsense without looking into it.

Also worth noting is the character of the people involved here and their decision to misrepresent reality and tell lies in the study too;

Although anyone can experience sexual harassment and violence, research indicates that girls are disproportionately affected. For example, 90% of recorded offences of rape in 2018–19 of 13- to 15-year-olds were committed against girls.


(Let's just ignore what the "Offence of rape" constitutes in the UK to pretend it's a womens issue.).

Ah, you see, it's <bleep> all the way down...

Oh wait can I say that? I bet I can't say that. Better bleep it.

"It's not a hate movement. We're just actively demonizing male children by misrepresenting reality to paint them in as negative a light as possible, all in service of demanding power so we can abuse and gaslight them by telling them if they don't accept this lie about themselves and promise to do as we tell them to fix it, they're awful human beings.".

Do you see why feminists should be driven out of polite society yet?

Seriously if you're just posting feminist news articles without examining them first, you're spreading misinformation dude. Shame social media sites don't realize that and ban people for doing it. Huskar, you should know better man, come on.

At one school, the girls told inspectors they can be contacted by up to 10 or 11 different boys a night asking for nude or semi-nude images.


This is an example of what we call an outlier. Literally.

Also, the BBC slyly misrepresenting reality and telling lies here by ommiting some words. The report has this sentence word for word... except for one thing.

"At one school, the girls told inspectors that SOME girls can be contacted by-".

Why would the BBC omit that word I wonder?

So basically "We found a single group of girls in the whole country who this is happening to.".

By the way.

This is also omited from the BBC article and *directly follows* from this point because it's the same school.

Some children and young people thought that it was ‘ok’ and ‘acceptable’ to ask someone for a nude picture, but had been taught to think about who else might see the pictures apart from the original recipient, and not to share them further.


Better not mention that bit I guess.

"A group of children who don't see a problem sharing nudes provided that they aren't shared beyond their group, are often asked to share nudes with eachother.".

Earthshattering stuff.

The report also goes into detail by the way about how girls report they feel safe at school, but not safe in other places and think those are significant problems. So you can't even really say this is about "Listening to girls" or whatever. It's about using them as a pawn in a power grab to try and gaslight society into letting feminists impose systems of control into schools which they can use to psychologically abuse children. The answers have been selected, distorted, misrepresented, anything they said that doesn't further a "Put feminists in charge of changing the school system" narrative is discarded.

The girls are told to shut up and zip it when they say "The problem isn't school" and talked over.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:19 pm, edited 10 times in total.
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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:04 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:*locks eyes with you from across the room*

You've met with a terrible fate, haven't you?

https://twitter.com/UK_Polling/status/1 ... 7789599748

CON: 411 (+46)
LAB: 154 (-48)
SNP: 51 (+3)
LD: 10 (-1)


Almost like Starmer dragging the party rightward isn't working out.
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The Nihilistic view
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Postby The Nihilistic view » Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:29 pm

Look, it's not Keir's fault Boris is such a legend.
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The Notorious Mad Jack
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Postby The Notorious Mad Jack » Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:35 pm

Vassenor wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:*locks eyes with you from across the room*

You've met with a terrible fate, haven't you?

https://twitter.com/UK_Polling/status/1 ... 7789599748

CON: 411 (+46)
LAB: 154 (-48)
SNP: 51 (+3)
LD: 10 (-1)


Almost like Starmer dragging the party rightward isn't working out.

And taking it further left would? Based on what evidence?
Totally not MadJack, though I hear he's incredibly smart and handsome.

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Ostroeuropa
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:38 pm

The Notorious Mad Jack wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
Almost like Starmer dragging the party rightward isn't working out.

And taking it further left would? Based on what evidence?


The main drivers of the loss in this case seem to be the youth vote abandoning Labour for the Greens. Voting intention among 18-24 shows Greens at 27%, a 21% swing away from Labour. With just 3% more of a swing, the Green party will overtake Labour among young voters.

The other group of voters causing this trend are people abandoning Labour for the Conservatives. I don't think I need to explain to you that they're doing it precisely because Boris is memeing about moving the party left economically while also shouting about how Woke people are terrible.

Adopting an economically centrist and socially woke platform is electoral suicide because it alienates both of those groups.

Boris' positioning of the conservatives as more economically centrist has made it easier for people to transition from Labour to the Tories over social issues, especially in the context of Starmer also doing that. It makes it an obvious choice for them really.

There's just not enough Blairites in the country to form a government and they have no social capital left with which to build a coalition. They fucked over Corbyn, started an "Illegal" war, and pushed mass migration. Those actions have made it so nobody is willing to ally with them anymore except under the limited circumstances of "The Tories are going apeshit with austerity".

Labour likes to waffle sometimes about how demographics is destiny. The trend of the young to abandon labour en masse for the greens seems to indicate that, well...

You've met with a terrible fate, haven't you?
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:15 pm, edited 8 times in total.
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Souseiseki
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Postby Souseiseki » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:54 pm

labour should have pushed PR when they had the chance but were consumed by the one ring of FPTP and now they're suffering for it

also seeing the oh so electable keir's popularity fall to corbyn levels gives me great schadenfreude
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Souseiseki
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Postby Souseiseki » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:55 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:*locks eyes with you from across the room*

You've met with a terrible fate, haven't you?

https://twitter.com/UK_Polling/status/1 ... 7789599748

CON: 411 (+46)
LAB: 154 (-48)
SNP: 51 (+3)
LD: 10 (-1)


yeah 51 is kinda disappointing
ask moderation about reading serious moderation candidates TGs without telling them about it until afterwards and/or apparently refusing to confirm/deny the exact timeline of TG reading ~~~ i hope you never sent any of the recent mods or the ones that got really close anything personal!

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The Huskar Social Union
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:11 pm

I remember when i used to be excited about labour. Oh those were the days.

Now i resign myself to focusing primarily on NI and casting the rest of the UK's political landscape to the side line especially when it comes to General Elections.

Bring on May 2022 i wanna vote baby!
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The Blaatschapen
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Postby The Blaatschapen » Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:14 pm

The Huskar Social Union wrote:I remember when i used to be excited about labour. Oh those were the days.

Now i resign myself to focusing primarily on NI and casting the rest of the UK's political landscape to the side line especially when it comes to General Elections.


So you're doing to GB what GB does to NI.

I can only approve :)
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The Huskar Social Union
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:18 pm

The Blaatschapen wrote:
The Huskar Social Union wrote:I remember when i used to be excited about labour. Oh those were the days.

Now i resign myself to focusing primarily on NI and casting the rest of the UK's political landscape to the side line especially when it comes to General Elections.


So you're doing to GB what GB does to NI.

I can only approve :)
See, Blaat gets it.

I for the most part smile at how NI seems to be going politically whilst ignoring the raging and depressing firestorm that exists to the east.
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Heloin
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Postby Heloin » Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:20 pm

The Huskar Social Union wrote:
The Blaatschapen wrote:
So you're doing to GB what GB does to NI.

I can only approve :)
See, Blaat gets it.

I for the most part smile at how NI seems to be going politically whilst ignoring the raging and depressing firestorm that exists to the east.

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The Huskar Social Union
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:21 pm

The DUP is imploding and tearing itself apart for all of Northern Ireland to see and is tanking in the polls.

Oh, thats good!

But the DUP and Loyalist paramilitaries are drumming up campaigns of hatred and misdirection over Brexit to enflame tensions and divert the blame away from themselves.

... thats bad.

But the DUP might get absolutely hammered in next years election in a historical defeat for Unionism whilst the Alliance Party surges to a potentially historic win hopefully opening up the middle ground of NI politics.

Oh, thats good!

But the TUV who are even worse than the DUP stand to win more seats and galvanise angry and disillusioned Loyalist voters.

... thats bad.
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Heloin
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Postby Heloin » Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:26 pm

The Huskar Social Union wrote:The DUP is imploding and tearing itself apart for all of Northern Ireland to see and is tanking in the polls.

Oh, thats good!

But the DUP and Loyalist paramilitaries are drumming up campaigns of hatred and misdirection over Brexit to enflame tensions and divert the blame away from themselves.

... thats bad.

But the DUP might get absolutely hammered in next years election in a historical defeat for Unionism whilst the Alliance Party surges to a potentially historic win hopefully opening up the middle ground of NI politics.

Oh, thats good!

But the TUV who are even worse than the DUP stand to win more seats and galvanise angry and disillusioned Loyalist voters.

... thats bad.

I can't really remember but are the TUV the ones who are basically the Unionist version of Republican Sinn Féin? Little more than a political front for people who want to start the war up again?
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The Huskar Social Union
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:38 pm

Heloin wrote:
The Huskar Social Union wrote:The DUP is imploding and tearing itself apart for all of Northern Ireland to see and is tanking in the polls.

Oh, thats good!

But the DUP and Loyalist paramilitaries are drumming up campaigns of hatred and misdirection over Brexit to enflame tensions and divert the blame away from themselves.

... thats bad.

But the DUP might get absolutely hammered in next years election in a historical defeat for Unionism whilst the Alliance Party surges to a potentially historic win hopefully opening up the middle ground of NI politics.

Oh, thats good!

But the TUV who are even worse than the DUP stand to win more seats and galvanise angry and disillusioned Loyalist voters.

... thats bad.

I can't really remember but are the TUV the ones who are basically the Unionist version of Republican Sinn Féin? Little more than a political front for people who want to start the war up again?

They are basically a more hard-line DUP. They were formed by Jim Allister in 2007 after he quit the DUP over its decision to go into power sharing with Sinn Fein. They oppose mandatory power sharing and are highly socially conservative. Allister is a bitter old bastard and he does his best to rile up people and get them mad.
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Miniature Painting, Cheese, Curry, Tanks and English Gals are my Kryptonite


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Heloin
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Postby Heloin » Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:47 pm

The Huskar Social Union wrote:
Heloin wrote:I can't really remember but are the TUV the ones who are basically the Unionist version of Republican Sinn Féin? Little more than a political front for people who want to start the war up again?

They are basically a more hard-line DUP. They were formed by Jim Allister in 2007 after he quit the DUP over its decision to go into power sharing with Sinn Fein. They oppose mandatory power sharing and are highly socially conservative. Allister is a bitter old bastard and he does his best to rile up people and get them mad.

Ok, not as bad as whoever I can't remember right now but still very shitty.
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Borderlands of Rojava
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Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:34 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:
The Huskar Social Union wrote:Girls asked for nudes by up to 11 boys a night, Ofsted finds



Was surprised this was not shared on here yesterday so i figured i would link it myself.


This is an example of how the media tell lies by technically being factual.

This phrasing in particular jumps out to me:

The report also found nine in 10 girls experienced sexist name-calling or were sent explicit photos or videos.

Given that the story is about being asked for explicit nudes the implication and emotional manipulation going on here is to try and get you to think that 9/10 girls are being asked for explicit nudes. But it's specifcially 9/10 experience sexist name calling, with 7/10 boys also reporting that is the case.

This is an example of one reason why feminist propoganda pieces do not mention mens issues. They're relying on stereotypes to get you not to question the idea that 9/10 girls are asked for nudes. But if they reported that figure alongside the male one, it would trip peoples skepticism and they'd take a closer look.

"9/10 girls and 7/10 boys experienced sexist name calling or being asked for sexually explicit nudes".

On its own this alone would be noteworthy, however, the propoganda piece goes significantly further than merely "Telling lies with statistics" and neglects to mention that this is not actually a study on how often this happens.

The question the kids were asked was;

"How often do you think this happens to people in your age group?".

They're being asked to speculate about what other peoples experiences are rather than report their own. This is then reported as "Oh no, girls are having these experiences". This is an example of a flat out lie about what the report says by the media rather than merely manipulation like the previous example.

All the report has shown is that girls think a lot of stuff is happening in their age group. If that were in fact the case a better question to ask would be "How often does this happen to you" rather than "How often do you think this might happen to other people your age?" then spamming the airwaves with "Oh this happens to lots of people" thereby reinforcing that notion in peoples heads as "Very common" in a self-referential and circular fashion.

We already know from studies that people grossly overestimate how much sexual attention and action other people are getting. So this is actually quite a clever manipualtion by feminist propogandists here, all in service of fueling a moral panic as usual.

The same report contains the actual figures that the BBC chose to ignore in order to tell lies to the public by the way:

26% of young people had sent a nude image to someone they were interested in and 48% had received one of someone else
.

So the BBC is now on the level of literal children in terms of their understanding of dynamics of sexual interactions in schools rather than on the level of people who have studied the situation, as is anyone who believes their nonsense without looking into it.

Also worth noting is the character of the people involved here and their decision to misrepresent reality and tell lies in the study too;

Although anyone can experience sexual harassment and violence, research indicates that girls are disproportionately affected. For example, 90% of recorded offences of rape in 2018–19 of 13- to 15-year-olds were committed against girls.


(Let's just ignore what the "Offence of rape" constitutes in the UK to pretend it's a womens issue.).

Ah, you see, it's <bleep> all the way down...

Oh wait can I say that? I bet I can't say that. Better bleep it.

"It's not a hate movement. We're just actively demonizing male children by misrepresenting reality to paint them in as negative a light as possible, all in service of demanding power so we can abuse and gaslight them by telling them if they don't accept this lie about themselves and promise to do as we tell them to fix it, they're awful human beings.".

Do you see why feminists should be driven out of polite society yet?

Seriously if you're just posting feminist news articles without examining them first, you're spreading misinformation dude. Shame social media sites don't realize that and ban people for doing it. Huskar, you should know better man, come on.

At one school, the girls told inspectors they can be contacted by up to 10 or 11 different boys a night asking for nude or semi-nude images.


This is an example of what we call an outlier. Literally.

Also, the BBC slyly misrepresenting reality and telling lies here by ommiting some words. The report has this sentence word for word... except for one thing.

"At one school, the girls told inspectors that SOME girls can be contacted by-".

Why would the BBC omit that word I wonder?

So basically "We found a single group of girls in the whole country who this is happening to.".

By the way.

This is also omited from the BBC article and *directly follows* from this point because it's the same school.

Some children and young people thought that it was ‘ok’ and ‘acceptable’ to ask someone for a nude picture, but had been taught to think about who else might see the pictures apart from the original recipient, and not to share them further.


Better not mention that bit I guess.

"A group of children who don't see a problem sharing nudes provided that they aren't shared beyond their group, are often asked to share nudes with eachother.".

Earthshattering stuff.

The report also goes into detail by the way about how girls report they feel safe at school, but not safe in other places and think those are significant problems. So you can't even really say this is about "Listening to girls" or whatever. It's about using them as a pawn in a power grab to try and gaslight society into letting feminists impose systems of control into schools which they can use to psychologically abuse children. The answers have been selected, distorted, misrepresented, anything they said that doesn't further a "Put feminists in charge of changing the school system" narrative is discarded.

The girls are told to shut up and zip it when they say "The problem isn't school" and talked over.


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The Nihilistic view
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Moralistic Democracy

Postby The Nihilistic view » Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:36 pm

Souseiseki wrote:labour should have pushed PR when they had the chance but were consumed by the one ring of FPTP and now they're suffering for it

also seeing the oh so electable keir's popularity fall to corbyn levels gives me great schadenfreude


What if Labour's current level of support is only because of FPTP? And under PR nobody would vote for them?
Last edited by The Nihilistic view on Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Celritannia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Celritannia » Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:11 pm

The Nihilistic view wrote:
Souseiseki wrote:labour should have pushed PR when they had the chance but were consumed by the one ring of FPTP and now they're suffering for it

also seeing the oh so electable keir's popularity fall to corbyn levels gives me great schadenfreude


What if Labour's current level of support is only because of FPTP? And under PR nobody would vote for them?


Labour would still get a lot of votes under PR, and in fact, so would the Lib Dems. The Lib Dems would be the party representing Scotland in the UK House of Commons than the SNP.
Last edited by Celritannia on Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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The Nihilistic view
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Moralistic Democracy

Postby The Nihilistic view » Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:46 pm

I wondered what Starmer has been up to the last week as I'd not heard anything. Turns out he's trying to link England not winning the Euros to Boris.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thegua ... racism-row

This probably just means we have tripled our chance of winning just so Keir looks like a prat. So we now have a 3% chance!
Last edited by The Nihilistic view on Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Trinity. Churchill Johnson and Thatcher.

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Ostroeuropa
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:14 pm

The Nihilistic view wrote:I wondered what Starmer has been up to the last week as I'd not heard anything. Turns out he's trying to link England not winning the Euros to Boris.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thegua ... racism-row

This probably just means we have tripled our chance of winning just so Keir looks like a prat. So we now have a 3% chance!


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The Blaatschapen
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Anarchy

Postby The Blaatschapen » Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:30 am

The Nihilistic view wrote:I wondered what Starmer has been up to the last week as I'd not heard anything. Turns out he's trying to link England not winning the Euros to Boris.


Already looking for someone to blame?

Normally this is done after the loss :p
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The Nihilistic view
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Moralistic Democracy

Postby The Nihilistic view » Sat Jun 12, 2021 3:39 am

The Blaatschapen wrote:
The Nihilistic view wrote:I wondered what Starmer has been up to the last week as I'd not heard anything. Turns out he's trying to link England not winning the Euros to Boris.


Already looking for someone to blame?

Normally this is done after the loss :p


Keir is used to losing, as is our football team.
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The Blaatschapen
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Postby The Blaatschapen » Sat Jun 12, 2021 3:43 am

The Nihilistic view wrote:
The Blaatschapen wrote:
Already looking for someone to blame?

Normally this is done after the loss :p


Keir is used to losing, as is our football team.


So Keir is the ultimate english footballer?

If that were true, he'd be both loved and hated more. Rather than just hated more.
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Philjia
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Philjia » Sat Jun 12, 2021 5:12 am

The Nihilistic view wrote:
Souseiseki wrote:labour should have pushed PR when they had the chance but were consumed by the one ring of FPTP and now they're suffering for it

also seeing the oh so electable keir's popularity fall to corbyn levels gives me great schadenfreude


What if Labour's current level of support is only because of FPTP? And under PR nobody would vote for them?

Under PR Labour would almost certainly split into a party of the Labour left and a party of the Labour right, who only currently stay together because FPTP encourages them to try to crush the other internally so people can only vote for their policies or a minor party.
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