UK Politics Thread IX: Try turning the UK off and on again.

[The Archregimancy]

The science at the time did suggest it would be fine. That's why they did it. Your view is anti-science and you keep peddling it.

When you say things like "the science at the time did suggest..." this suggests that the science at present no longer considers it so, which would suggest that a change of tactics would be a good idea. Do you have any sources that suggest it is still currently considered a good idea by experts?

If I can offer an external thought from someone not involved in this argument, it strikes me that we potentially have a misunderstanding here.

It doesn't look to me as if Dakini is questioning the science.

Instead what seems to have happened is The Nihilistic view wrote an entirely justified anti-Vassenor post that simply reinforced that the vaccination strategy was legitimate given the available scientific knowledge at the time.

Dakini wasn't questioning this, but simply thought that "the science at the time did suggest" might imply that our understanding has changed. The question 'Do you have any sources that suggest it is still currently considered a good idea by experts?' struck me as an innocent request for more information over whether the state of medical knowledge has since changed or not. It didn't seem to me to be intended to challenge either the state of scientific knowledge or The Nihilistic view's initial post.

So Dakini slightly misunderstood what The Nihilistic view was trying to emphasise, yes; but I think Dakini's post was misread in turn.

A simple 'no, there's been no change in the available evidence' might have been enough. I think you might all have become a little overheated for nothing on this one.



On a related note, the UK is not the only country in Europe using a 12-week gap between vaccinations. Finland, that notorious centre of right-wing populist anti-science politics, is also using a 12-week gap.

Finland defends 12-week interval
Earlier this year Finland extended the gap between vaccine doses to three months. The country is now administering around 80,000 second jabs weekly, according to Kontio.

"The pace will slow down for a few weeks, although incoming vaccine volumes are growing. Deliveries will speed up even more in early June, which is when things will even out again and the pace of first shots will accelerate," she explained.

Kontio told Yle she believed Finland’s vaccination strategy of implementing 12-week intervals between first and second doses had been a good idea.

"At this moment studies show that over three months antibodies don’t decrease to a level that would significantly weaken protection. From the perspective of long-term cover, this bigger gap could even be better," she explained, defending Finland's strategy.

Kontio also speculated that other European countries may introduce longer intervals between shots to maximise the number of people getting their first inoculation.

https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/finl ... n/11916223

We can no doubt now look forward to Vassenor attacking a country with one of the most efficient public health systems in Europe for its right-wing incompetence.

[San Lumen]

I wonder if I could get nice odds on Vaughan Gethyn succeeding Starmer.

I don’t think Starmer is going anywhere but Gething seems like he would be a good pick as a replacement.

[Philjia]

While I'm disappointed that us in the Gateshead Greens failed to achieve our objective, I'm impressed with Green performance across the country. We're making steady, sustainable progress towards greater political relevance. I think in addition to continuing that what we need is to drum up some more membership and some more cash. The Gateshead Greens are poor in terms of both. We only had the money and manpower to seriously campaign in one ward this time, and it still wasn't enough to overcome Labour's deep entrenchment here. Our good results should hopefully entice more people to join us, but the cash flow problems will be harder to overcome. As a clearly anti-corporate party we're not going to pull big donations like anyone else, and the few members we have aren't the cash richest lot.

[Hirota]

While I'm disappointed that us in the Gateshead Greens failed to achieve our objective, I'm impressed with Green performance across the country. We're making steady, sustainable progress towards greater political relevance. I think in addition to continuing that what we need is to drum up some more membership and some more cash. The Gateshead Greens are poor in terms of both. We only had the money and manpower to seriously campaign in one ward this time, and it still wasn't enough to overcome Labour's deep entrenchment here. Our good results should hopefully entice more people to join us, but the cash flow problems will be harder to overcome. As a clearly anti-corporate party we're not going to pull big donations like anyone else, and the few members we have aren't the cash richest lot.

You mean to tell me that wealthy exec types queuing up to take private jets to the Med to talk about climate change are not willing to put their money where their twitter account is?

I actually did end up voting for the greens for my local council elections, not had the result yet though.

[Vassenor]

We can no doubt now look forward to Vassenor attacking a country with one of the most efficient public health systems in Europe for its right-wing incompetence.

I mean you can just admit you're not actually reading my arguments. Because I never said anything about incompetence in the vaccine rollout. I called it a gamble that worked out.

[Hirota]

We can no doubt now look forward to Vassenor attacking a country with one of the most efficient public health systems in Europe for its right-wing incompetence.

I mean you can just admit you're not actually reading my arguments.

Oh we always read your arguments, all one sentence of them copy-pasted from some twitter hot take.

[Dakini]

When you say things like "the science at the time did suggest..." this suggests that the science at present no longer considers it so, which would suggest that a change of tactics would be a good idea. Do you have any sources that suggest it is still currently considered a good idea by experts?

If I can offer an external thought from someone not involved in this argument, it strikes me that we potentially have a misunderstanding here.

It doesn't look to me as if Dakini is questioning the science.

Instead what seems to have happened is The Nihilistic view wrote an entirely justified anti-Vassenor post that simply reinforced that the vaccination strategy was legitimate given the available scientific knowledge at the time.

Dakini wasn't questioning this, but simply thought that "the science at the time did suggest" might imply that our understanding has changed. The question 'Do you have any sources that suggest it is still currently considered a good idea by experts?' struck me as an innocent request for more information over whether the state of medical knowledge has since changed or not. It didn't seem to me to be intended to challenge either the state of scientific knowledge or The Nihilistic view's initial post.

So Dakini slightly misunderstood what The Nihilistic view was trying to emphasise, yes; but I think Dakini's post was misread in turn.

A simple 'no, there's been no change in the available evidence' might have been enough. I think you might all have become a little overheated for nothing on this one.

Basically this.

On a related note, the UK is not the only country in Europe using a 12-week gap between vaccinations. Finland, that notorious centre of right-wing populist anti-science politics, is also using a 12-week gap.

Finland defends 12-week interval
Earlier this year Finland extended the gap between vaccine doses to three months. The country is now administering around 80,000 second jabs weekly, according to Kontio.

"The pace will slow down for a few weeks, although incoming vaccine volumes are growing. Deliveries will speed up even more in early June, which is when things will even out again and the pace of first shots will accelerate," she explained.

Kontio told Yle she believed Finland’s vaccination strategy of implementing 12-week intervals between first and second doses had been a good idea.

"At this moment studies show that over three months antibodies don’t decrease to a level that would significantly weaken protection. From the perspective of long-term cover, this bigger gap could even be better," she explained, defending Finland's strategy.

Kontio also speculated that other European countries may introduce longer intervals between shots to maximise the number of people getting their first inoculation.

https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/finl ... n/11916223

We can no doubt now look forward to Vassenor attacking a country with one of the most efficient public health systems in Europe for its right-wing incompetence.

Personally, I'm still looking forward to getting both my vaccines in the timeframe recommended by the manufacturer instead of the timeframe dictated by the limitations of a vaccine programme when I get into the system here to get mine done. Even if more than one country seems to think it's okay, I would like to be vaccinated on a schedule that was tested instead of one that is convenient.

[The Notorious Mad Jack]

I wonder if I could get nice odds on Vaughan Gethyn succeeding Starmer.

I'm still all in on the Dan Jarvis train.

[The Archregimancy]

We can no doubt now look forward to Vassenor attacking a country with one of the most efficient public health systems in Europe for its right-wing incompetence.

I mean you can just admit you're not actually reading my arguments. Because I never said anything about incompetence in the vaccine rollout. I called it a gamble that worked out.

Oh Vassenor....

When you start to post developed, coherent arguments rather than one-sentence rhetorical questions, decontextualised re-hashes of something you read on Twitter, or misrepresentations of what other people are saying, I can assure you that we'll pay attention.

In the meantime, you can continue to expect that your posts will be treated by all ranges of political opinion with the respect and sincerity that they so richly deserve.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Steve Aiken resigns as Ulster Unionist Party leader.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57038269

The man was completely invisible in his role and the only things of note i remember him doing was when he tried to imitate the DUP.

Will be interesting to see who replaces him though.

[San Lumen]

I wonder if I could get nice odds on Vaughan Gethyn succeeding Starmer.

I'm still all in on the Dan Jarvis train.

Why him?

[The Huskar Social Union]

Shout out to Welsh Labour for a pretty decent result, well done to them. If only the same thing happened with Labour in England.

Also the SNP have made a few gains, good on them too.

[San Lumen]

Shout out to Welsh Labour for a pretty decent result, well done to them. If only the same thing happened with Labour in England.

Also the SNP have made a few gains, good on them too.

Perhaps the party ought to take lessons from Welsh Labor.

[The Land of the Ephyral]

Any result that sees Labour fall further has my approval. I really see nothing else positive in the system.

[San Lumen]

Any result that sees Labour fall further has my approval. I really see nothing else positive in the system.

Why is that?

[The Land of the Ephyral]

Why is that?

If Britain had an era in which elected officials at essentially any level could be depended upon to represent their people, then it is an era dead today. Democracy only means that a handful of factions commit themselves to promising anything and everything to win votes from people, and then holding those promises over to the next election so they still have something to market.

Even in council elections, the basis for voting has shifted entirely to party allegiance in Westminster, not actual support for a given candidate.

[San Lumen]

Why is that?

If Britain had an era in which elected officials at essentially any level could be depended upon to represent their people, then it is an era dead today. Democracy only means that a handful of factions commit themselves to promising anything and everything to win votes from people, and then holding those promises over to the next election so they still have something to market.

Even in council elections, the basis for voting has shifted entirely to party allegiance in Westminster, not actual support for a given candidate.

Whats your solution?

[The Huskar Social Union]

SNP on 60 seats, just picked up another two. Two remaining constituencies in the east of the country to go which were both held by the SNP last time, then after that the regional seats.

[San Lumen]

SNP on 60 seats, just picked up another two. Two remaining constituencies in the east of the country to go which were both held by the SNP last time, then after that the regional seats.

BBC said an overall majority is unlikely for the SNP.

[The Huskar Social Union]

SNP on 60 seats, just picked up another two. Two remaining constituencies in the east of the country to go which were both held by the SNP last time, then after that the regional seats.

BBC said an overall majority is unlikely for the SNP.

Probably. But i can see the Greens backing them up in a coalition.

[The Land of the Ephyral]

Whats your solution?

Assuming it were to uphold democracy; abolish political parties, and pass laws to ensure that in order to run for a specific seat you have to have been born in its jurisdiction. Then I would deal with the monetary side of things by limiting the tax-paid salaries of the representatives of the people to the mean average earned by the people they're supposed to represent, so that it is in the interest of the representative to improve the standard of living and opportunities for the people they represent.

My genuine solution would involve the complete removal of democracy, but what I would want in its place is not going to be possible for the foreseeable future, so I stick to realistic prospects.

[San Lumen]

BBC said an overall majority is unlikely for the SNP.

Probably. But i can see the Greens backing them up in a coalition.

sadly I can't watch the live coverage on the website. It either says its not available in my location or no live stream appears.

[San Lumen]

Whats your solution?

Assuming it were to uphold democracy; abolish political parties, and pass laws to ensure that in order to run for a specific seat you have to have been born in its jurisdiction. Then I would deal with the monetary side of things by limiting the tax-paid salaries of the representatives of the people to the mean average earned by the people they're supposed to represent, so that it is in the interest of the representative to improve the standard of living and opportunities for the people they represent.

My genuine solution would involve the complete removal of democracy, but what I would want in its place is not going to be possible for the foreseeable future, so I stick to realistic prospects.

So only people born in London or a small town could run for the office there? How is that fair or democratic?

[The Land of the Ephyral]

So only people born in London or a small town could run for the office there? How is that fair or democratic?

I believe an individual has no right to represent a group he or she is not a true member of.

[San Lumen]

So only people born in London or a small town could run for the office there? How is that fair or democratic?

I believe an individual has no right to represent a group he or she is not a true member of.

So a young person who moves to London for a job having been born in a small town should never be allowed to run for office there? I don't see how that even remotely democratic or fair. It should be up to the people to chose who they want not some stupid law like that.

How would such a requirement be enforced?