NationStates

Clashes have worsened in occupied East Jerusalem between Palestinians and Israeli nationalists. Clashes took place previously and were reignited Thursday. Palestinians have cited that since the start of the Islamic holy month Ramadan, Israel has erected barriers around Damascus Gate, which they say is an attempt to block them from breaking fast in Jerusalem’s holy sites. Right-wing Israelis saw TikTok videos of Palestinians attacking Orthodox Jews in the very first clashes, which were initiated by Israelis attacking Arabs while shouting anti-Arab slogans, and said it was their reason to March towards Jerusalem’s Old City where they began to shout “Death to Arabs”. Both sides began throwing projectiles and police began using tear gas, stun grenades, and water cannons to disperse the crowds. While Israel says 20 Palestinians have been injured, the Red Crescent states 105 have been injured (22 hospitalized) with no deaths reported thus far. 50 Palestinians have been arrested with no reported Israeli arrests so far. Ahead of the clash, on Jewish Supremacist said “If one of the attackers isn't hanged, this won't end.” Another stated, “We’re burning Arabs today, the Molotov cocktails are already in the trunk.”

Life in Palestine has gotten worse for Palestinians. Gaza has been bombarded by Israel as the Palestinians there attempt to fast for Ramadan. Meanwhile, Israel has dismissed a case against an IDF soldier who kneeled on the neck of a 60 year old Palestinian man while peacefully protesting.
Source:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-56854275

Israel strikes again. Just at the beginning of the holy month. I've read BBC reports of Masjid Al-Aqsa in almost every ramadan in these last recent years. Same old thing all the time. Shutting down the gates and limiting the number of people and setting up an age limit. Why do Israel care who does and who doesn't pray in Masjid Al-Aqsa. Its not theirs. And its certainly not up to them who prays and who doesn't.

As always. My prayers go to Palestine. May Allah save them.

I feel like the only way Jerusalem can be become stable if it and the land around it are under independent rule, where no groups are discriminated against, nor any group getting put above others.

Israel always causes the issues, and is never held accountable.

I wonder why.

Insaanistan wrote:Jewish Supremacist

Is this even a thing?

Nakena wrote:

Insaanistan wrote:Jewish Supremacist

Is this even a thing?

Well yeah. The same way Glorious Hong Kong claims Malaysia is muslim supremacist

All of Jerusalem is Israel's capital city. All who disagree or don't want to be under Israeli rule/law should arguably leave. That is what Israel won the 6 day war for.

Nakena wrote:

Insaanistan wrote:Jewish Supremacist

Is this even a thing?

You...
You think there aren’t Jews...
Who think they’re better than everyone else?

Nakena wrote:

Insaanistan wrote:Jewish Supremacist

Is this even a thing?

Yes, of course it is.

Saiwania wrote:All of Jerusalem is Israel's capital city. All who disagree or don't want to be under Israeli rule/law should arguably leave. That is what Israel won the 6 day war for.

“I came into your house, stabbed you several times over the course of a week, and reduced you to the attic and the basement. If you don’t like it, leave.”
No.

Nakena wrote:

Insaanistan wrote:Jewish Supremacist

Is this even a thing?

Unfortunately, yes.
One would hope that people from persecuted groups would be more likely to oppose nationalism. Such is not the case.

Saiwania wrote:All of Jerusalem is Israel's capital city. All who disagree or don't want to be under Israeli rule/law should arguably leave. That is what Israel won the 6 day war for.

Why do you think this way?

I've said it before, and I'll say it again; neocons are lost in the sauce.

Insaanistan wrote:Palestinians have cited that since the start of the Islamic holy month Ramadan, Israel has erected barriers around Damascus gate which they say is an attempt to block them from breaking fast in Jerusalem’s holy cities.

Bit of a dick move, that.

---

Nakena wrote:

Insaanistan wrote:Jewish Supremacist

Is this even a thing?

Presumably in the same context as, say, Islamists?

---

Outer Bratorke wrote:I feel like the only way Jerusalem can be become stable if it and the land around it are under independent rule, where no groups are discriminated against, nor any group getting put above others.

IIRC that was proposed in the 1947 partition plan, with the city outside the Jewish/Arab areas & under third-party rule.

Nakena wrote:

Insaanistan wrote:Jewish Supremacist

Is this even a thing?

There's definitely many Jews with ethnic chauvinism.

Austreylia wrote:Why do you think this way? I've said it before, and I'll say it again; neocons are lost in the sauce.

Having Israel exist solves the Jewish question for most of the world and in addition, Israel is a richer country than its neighbors in terms of GDP. Of course I'm not going to throw a more developed economy and society under the bus as opposed to a poorer one that is known for less stability and isn't as good of a match for the western developed world.

Outer Bratorke wrote:I feel like the only way Jerusalem can be become stable if it and the land around
IIRC that was proposed in the 1947 partition plan, with the city outside the Jewish/Arab areas & under third-party rule.

Yea, it was.

The thing we need to keep in mind where the idea of Israel came from. It was born around the time of extreme nationalism in Europe, and Jews were, as usual, getting attacked for being different. The creators of Zionism thought about it like this:
"People hate us just because were different"
Hey, I know! What if we got our own nation, so we could be part of the cool kids club, and make Jews respectable."

As the the create of Zionism were raised in a world of nationalism, they viewed it as only right they got their own place where they were in charge and the majority.

There were exceptions, such as Judah Magnes, who called for living in peace and equality, and opposed kicking people out of their land. Sadly, no one listened to him, and all his dire prediction came to be true.

In my opinion I think the UN should have tried to make Israel a one nation state from the beginning. What I mean is what is considered Israel and what is considered Palestine should be abolished and be united as one country where all races can share the land. By share I mean not kick out Palestinians and the Israelis force themselves in. Rather both races could be neighbors and property bought like regular real estate. A new government and constitution should be written and declared for equal rights for all.

Outer Bratorke wrote:

Outer Bratorke wrote:I feel like the only way Jerusalem can be become stable if it and the land around
IIRC that was proposed in the 1947 partition plan, with the city outside the Jewish/Arab areas & under third-party rule.

Yea, it was.

The thing we need to keep in mind where the idea of Israel came from. It was born around the time of extreme nationalism in Europe, and Jews were, as usual, getting attacked for being different. The creators of Zionism thought about it like this:
"People hate us just because were different"
Hey, I know! What if we got our own nation, so we could be part of the cool kids club, and make Jews respectable."

As the the create of Zionism were raised in a world of nationalism, they viewed it as only right they got their own place where they were in charge and the majority.

There were exceptions, such as Judah Magnes, who called for living in peace and equality, and opposed kicking people out of their land. Sadly, no one listened to him, and all his dire prediction came to be true.

Slightly related:
The Turkish show Payitaht Abdülhamid goes a lot into Abdulhamid II’s attempts to block a Zionist state from existing as well as Herzl’s attempts to undermine the Ottoman government.
Some claim the show’s anti-Semitic, but it makes a point of showing anti-Zionist Jews and stating Judaism doesn’t agree with senseless violence so I really don’t see the problem there.

Insaanistan wrote:

Saiwania wrote:All of Jerusalem is Israel's capital city. All who disagree or don't want to be under Israeli rule/law should arguably leave. That is what Israel won the 6 day war for.

“I came into your house, stabbed you several times over the course of a week, and reduced you to the attic and the basement. If you don’t like it, leave.”
No.

More like:

Once upon a time there were two brothers, living in the same house.
Brother 1 married a woman from overseas, brother 2 married the daughter of a distant cousin.

Then brother 2 accuses brother 1 of having filthy habits now that he lives with Overseas Woman, and suggest they leave the house.

Then a few distant cousins roll into the house, make brother 2's children give up their own habits, as well as the children of brother 1, which would be the end of the whole conflict - except for one daughter of brother 2 who marries an Armenian and then redecorates the house and the families living there "If momma ain't happy, nobody is".
- well, some children of brother 2 were still not happy, so that didn't go well. The house is effectively split.

Then there is a new landlord, who forces brother 2's descendants to leave.
Then there is a Persian landlord, who allows them to move back in.
Then a Macedonian landlord, followed by yet another landlord, who tries to move them back out.

Meanwhile, there is a wide spectre of somewhat related habits in the house, which is spreading all over the neighbourhood.

Then a Roman landlord, who expells all of brother 2's family. Result: one variety of the habits spreads all the way into the landlord's own neighbourhood, then spreads out as the new fashion.

A counterfashion is started in some very distant cousin's neighbourhood, which also spreads out. Brother 1's family follow both fashions. Brother 2's old ways are out of fashion, except with some hyper-angry disposessed descendants.

Iraqi landlord - Egyptian landlord - Turkish landlord - English landlord (who allow brother 2's family back into the house, even though brother 1's family no longer see them as family)

Brother 2 branch wrestles some rooms from the English ownership.

Landlord gives the remaining rooms to the neighbours, who have a French landlord.

The two branches of the family scrap over the whole house. Brother 2 branch wins, tells brother 1 branch to move into the attic. Neighbours refuse any and all help to brother 1 branch, as they hope to use that side of the family as a cudgel to remove branch 2. Branch 2 has American connections and European connections (who are having a collective guilt trip from when they were trying to kill branch 2), so that cudgel-plan is dead on arrival. It is still tried several times though, because why waste branch 1's despair?

Both branches now hate each other with a vengeance.

Outer Bratorke wrote:There were exceptions, such as Judah Magnes, who called for living in peace and equality, and opposed kicking people out of their land. Sadly, no one listened to him, and all his dire prediction came to be true.

The Bible and enough archeological evidence suggests that the land in question is the point of origin for Jewish people anyways, hence it is their ancestral homeland. If Jews gathered enough force to take it back for themselves, what exactly is wrong with that outcome?

It is more the case that the Jewish people originally resided in what is now Israel, but were driven out by the Romans, and the Romans in turn were driven out by the Arabs, who were partially driven out by the Jews who returned from overseas.

Saiwania wrote:Of course I'm not going to throw a more developed economy and society under the bus as opposed to a poorer one

Sounds like you have something against the poor.

Terraska wrote:

Insaanistan wrote:“I came into your house, stabbed you several times over the course of a week, and reduced you to the attic and the basement. If you don’t like it, leave.”
No.

More like:

Once upon a time there were two brothers, living in the same house.
Brother 1 married a woman from overseas, brother 2 married the daughter of a distant cousin.

Then brother 2 accuses brother 1 of having filthy habits now that he lives with Overseas Woman, and suggest they leave the house.

Then a few distant cousins roll into the house, make brother 2's children give up their own habits, as well as the children of brother 1, which would be the end of the whole conflict - except for one daughter of brother 2 who marries an Armenian and then redecorates the house and the families living there "If momma ain't happy, nobody is".
- well, some children of brother 2 were still not happy, so that didn't go well. The house is effectively split.

Then there is a new landlord, who forces brother 2's descendants to leave.
Then there is a Persian landlord, who allows them to move back in.
Then a Macedonian landlord, followed by yet another landlord, who tries to move them back out.

Meanwhile, there is a wide spectre of somewhat related habits in the house, which is spreading all over the neighbourhood.

Then a Roman landlord, who expells all of brother 2's family. Result: one variety of the habits spreads all the way into the landlord's own neighbourhood, then spreads out as the new fashion.

A counterfashion is started in some very distant cousin's neighbourhood, which also spreads out. Brother 1's family follow both fashions. Brother 2's old ways are out of fashion, except with some hyper-angry disposessed descendants.

Iraqi landlord - Egyptian landlord - Turkish landlord - English landlord (who allow brother 2's family back into the house, even though brother 1's family no longer see them as family)

Brother 2 branch wrestles some rooms from the English ownership.

Landlord gives the remaining rooms to the neighbours, who have a French landlord.

The two branches of the family scrap over the whole house. Brother 2 branch wins, tells brother 1 branch to move into the attic. Neighbours refuse any and all help to brother 1 branch, as they hope to use that side of the family as a cudgel to remove branch 2. Branch 2 has American connections and European connection (who are having a collective guilt trip from whenthey were trying to kill branch 2), so that cudgel-plan is dead on arrival. It is still tried several times though, because why waste branch 1's despair?

Borth branches now hate each other with a vengeance.

I’d like to add:
Central Asian landlord who brags about how he used to live in Turkey let’s them stay, French, English and Italian landlords kick them out again, Kurdish landlord let’s them stay again.

Other than that, this is exactly how I’m gonna explain this to kids.

Saiwania wrote:If Jews gathered enough force to take it back for themselves, what exactly is wrong with that outcome?

Im sure you'd keep that tone if the Cherokee came to your home with guns and forced you out.

Saiwania wrote:

Outer Bratorke wrote:There were exceptions, such as Judah Magnes, who called for living in peace and equality, and opposed kicking people out of their land. Sadly, no one listened to him, and all his dire prediction came to be true.

The Bible and enough archeological evidence suggests that the land in question is the point of origin for Jewish people anyways, hence it is their ancestral homeland. If Jews gathered enough force to take it back for themselves, what exactly is wrong with that outcome?

It is more the case that the Jewish people originally resided in what is now Israel, but were driven out by the Romans, and the Romans in turn were driven out by the Arabs, who were partially driven out by the Jews who returned from overseas.

What’s wrong is those Jews have few ties to that land and their own religion states they can’t have it till their Messiah comes, and the Arab living on that land are part Jewish since most of the Jews living there never left and instead chose to (or were forced to, depending on the ruler) become Muslim and mixed with the Arabs.

Every citizen in the Republic of La Boca, in the comfort of their homes, in their balconies shout: AL MAWT ISRA'IL!